Gratitude & Versions Of Reality

Tommy: It's a very low barrier to get into the Gronk Squad.

Josh: That's crazy. We've committed to do the Daily Talk Show for 10 years.

Tommy: Hi guys. Hi guys.

Josh: Put it in the calendar. I'd just like to cheque the temperature in the room. I told you my squeegee story.

Tommy: It is outrageous.

Josh: Come on, let's go. Oh, it's a Daily Talk Show episode 971. Fucking Clubhouse. Just accidentally press the notification, it just comes on.

Tommy: Clubhouse.

Josh: You know what, I'm deleting Clubhouse.

Tommy: Good, because I've turned off notifications for it. Happy Hump Day, everybody.

Josh: Not only happy hump day, but also happy Big Cup Company Day. Please, if you are on YouTube, hit like on this video. We have the cups, they're 32 ounces. They're looking great. Yeah.

Tommy: And you ruined the shot holding up your phone while holding that cup.

Josh: Oh, sorry.

Tommy: So, now hold it up. There we go. These are the Big Cups that you can get by registering your interest, bigcupcompany.com. We've already had a bunch and we've received the first shipment and we're going to be getting back to everybody who has put through their request. We're still ironing out the details. This is great. There's a lot to be grateful for today.

Josh: Well, we— Do we mention the fact that we ordered 100 and only got 20?

Tommy: Look, be grateful that you got 20. Yesterday we were talking about gratitude, you know, not on the show.

Josh: No, you went on a nice walk.

Tommy: We probably should— that was probably a great podcast, that whole walk. Yeah, maybe would have been a great podcast. And that's the fine line of like, when do we decide? Because you can come in— if you, if you've decided to go hard on, uh, self-awareness in a conversation on a podcast can sometimes fall flat for a couple of blokes that probably, you know, don't take notes or research heavily. Yeah, we're a work in progress.

Josh: Are you referring to Margot's comment on YouTube?

Tommy: Um, let's read out Margot's comment.

Josh: Okay.

Tommy: I hadn't planned to talk about Margot's comment, but I think probably today is a good day to talk about Margot's comment.

Josh: Make sure you're just gonna make sure I'm pressing record. I think I am, but I'm just double checking.

Tommy: Yeah, yeah, look, so we have a YouTube channel if you're not subscribed. There's 14,000 people already subscribed. The Daily Talk Show. So youtube.com/thedailytalkshow. I am padding because I'm getting to, um, Margot's comment. This was from the episode that we talked about all the business decisions we've made, uh, the hard, uh, business decisions.

Josh: Yep.

Tommy: Including, um, where Mr. 97's gone, um, and That wasn't Clubhouse, that was just playing through. That was a YouTube pre-roll. Um, actually, I'm gonna keep playing that so we can earn a bit more money. Does that— is that how it works?

Josh: I guess so, yeah. So you get nos if it's your account though.

Tommy: Ah yeah, it's on to us. So Margo, uh, never heard from Margo ever on our YouTube channel. Yeah, one of the 14,000. Maybe she was a subscriber, he was a subscriber, don't know. Margo has said, great to hear about the history and progression of your business and podcasts. Shame we only heard your version of one side of the difficult decisions story. A bit justification, probably. Probably, as Tommy said, and she quotes, he quotes 27 minutes 50, if you'd like to go to it. I said, you tell yourself a storey to serve your vision or goals, or even when something negative happens. Close quote. Why not just tell it like it is, whether it puts you in a bad light or not? Sorry, guys, you've lost me. I now switch off. Best wishes for your future. Margot's missed the point there.

Josh: Yeah. Yeah, I guess like it's when you get— If I think about— I spoke about it a week or so ago when very negative. I think this is part of it. Like there are comments like this that we'll see every few weeks or whatever. And if it gets you on the right— at the right time, it can throw your day. But, um, missing the point.

Tommy: Let me just explain. So me saying that in the moment of talking about the, the situation we had at hand is me acknowledging that this is our version. Yeah. There's a storey going on within this business between you and I because this is our reality at this moment. But even in that reality, there is yours and mine. We're mutually of an understanding of what's happening and how things are playing out and why and how they— like, because it serves to be mutually on the same understanding of the storey or what's happening. And so it's reflecting that. Yeah. So this is our version of events. And I think you can easily say when hard things happen, like letting Mr. 97 go and having to make him redundant, we could look at that and say it's positive. It's fucking hard and feels negative, but we can also say he's now got an opportunity to do X, Y, and Z. The business, this, you know, X, Y, and Z. You can frame things. And I think my point there was when things go bad a way to get out of them, which is not excusing any truth or what is happening, is to reframe them to serve your goals and serve where you're going and serve your everyday. Because if you're waking up in your Margo and feeling like shit and then not choosing to optimise the day by, you know, looking at what's going on in your life and thinking maybe this is a sign. Maybe my sore body is a fucking sign to change it, because I feel like that right now.

Josh: I think that you were just, um, uh, being genuine when you say that there's multiple versions of every story, and you can have the exact same experience, uh, in a moment, but based on all your other thoughts, feelings, and experiences, you come out with a different storey or a slight— slightly different version. And so just prefacing it and saying, hey, this is a version, this is the storey that we've told, I think is just like a polite thing to do for anyone that's not in the room. But I think that what the bit that Margot has missed is assuming like what that means is there's been some sort of manip— active manipulation. Is it like— this is the thing with filmmaking, when you make a documentary as soon as you decide to point the camera somewhere, you're choosing to not point somewhere else.

Tommy: Exactly.

Josh: And so, even if you say, oh, you know, if you talk about objectivity or journalism, it's a very hard thing to do because all of those small decisions, what you're going to talk about, who you're going to interview, all of a sudden you are not objective because you are subjectively picking who to speak to and which you know, side of the storey to tell. And so I think that that's like— but I think that this is a bigger point around black and white. So people thinking that things are good or bad, negative, positive, you were telling the truth or you were lying.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: Um, and so I think that just because I'm like— I think, yeah, where my headspace goes with it is, okay, um, Margo's had some, some form of experience that we have triggered in her around, okay, this is, um, you know, uh, you know, being at the, the bad end of a storey or whatever it is that then that sort of triggers it and so on. And that's their right to do, to have that experience. But I think, um, the thing that we are going to learn through all of this journey, which is the Daily Talk Show, is our ability to take on, or maybe not take on, the, um, uh, the energy of others. So it can be great, it can be rewarding. You watch Billie Eilish and she's, you know, all about that, you know, loving the fans and all of that sort of thing. And we feel the same way. We have a deep connection with a lot of gronks, uh, but it also— we also— there needs to be a version where you can detach from the negativity.

Tommy: Yeah, I mean, there's a, there's a risk of not being understood, and, and then what's your relationship with being misunderstood?

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: And so that's something to look at because for Margot not understanding, um, you know, multiple realities happening at the same time you know, different experiences. Think about breakups. Breakups are a great example because one person would say one thing.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: Even when you hear some people like, oh, it was amicable, and there's like, oh, that's a fucking nightmare, that dude.

Josh: Yeah, yeah.

Tommy: And I'm glad he's gone. There's two versions.

Josh: Yeah, it's— and you can see how quickly people will switch a version to, you know, when you're leaving a business or whatever it is. And so I guess you just can't get too connected to it.

Tommy: And there's nothing even negative, I don't think, in switching the story. So someone saying one thing when they leave and how bummed they are, to then establishing themselves in a new situation and only being able to do that by telling the story. So initially it might have been, I never want to go, I don't want to leave, to to then getting in the new place going, this is for me. It was all right. Like, this was meant to be. This is my home. And so, and that's not negative because that's serving your future, serving your situation, your life. So, yeah, I mean, I like that. I mean, if the concept of multiple truths has not been one you've explored, it's very fascinating, very interesting to think about it because you realise that Even your own truth isn't truth. Even your own truth is a version, or there's a high likelihood that it will mould over your lifetime.

Josh: Yeah. When we were watching the short documentary by The Verge on Paul Miller, who left the internet for a year, he went to one of his mentors.

Tommy: Sad Paul, they call him.

Josh: And he suffered from depression. That's why he was sad.

Tommy: Oh, really?

Josh: He actually had depression? Yeah.

Tommy: I thought he's just sad from leaving the internet.

Josh: And so, he— He goes to his mentor and is asking for advice. And one thing that his mentor said, which I think resonated with both of us, I remember watching it 8 years ago and really connecting with it. But it's just like the ability to not hold on to this idea that you're part of a narrative, that you are, that you are the protagonist in this narrative where you are. Our Instagram's blowing up. Is that what you're looking at?

Tommy: No, I've just— Ozpost says your delivery is on the way. Oh, that's exciting.

Josh: Um, I wonder what that could be.

Tommy: Yeah, it could be more cups.

Josh: Why would you be getting the notification?

Tommy: No, no, delivery on Thursday the 11th of March. Oh, it's coming from Byron Bay. This is a book.

Josh: Oh great, you know what this book is called? The Sam Harris book, uh, Stop Lying.

Tommy: I think, what is it, Lying by Sam Harris.

Josh: Very, very funny, very relevant. Um, yeah, so Uh, yeah, the idea of getting rid of the narrative, and I think that we've had to do that a bunch, everyone, being in a pandemic. All of a sudden you can't hold on to all of these things. And, um, I definitely feel, if listeners are feeling like what I feel at the moment, is there's a shedding, um, that can happen where, yeah, what's the feeling? It's like There, I do feel the sense that we've like disappointed heaps of people. Do you get that sense or no?

Tommy: Yeah, a little bit. A little bit. Um, which is, which is annoying because it's not the feeling you want when you've been struggling. Yeah, yeah, you're depressed and fuck— not— I'm saying I'm pretty fucking depressed. I'm a bit miserable at the moment, but I acknowledge that it's— that we're in a great place as a business. Like, so many positive things are happening, but I, but I've struggled and lost I lost a lot of fucking perspective and gratitude, which is, yeah, where I'm at. And it's hard when you can— you're disappointing people, but you're actually fucking no good.

Josh: It's disappointing based on— and this is where the negativity was the other week around community and all that sort of thing— is it's like, it feels like it's the whole putting on your own mask. Yeah, first. And, um, And also, I think about the empathy that I have for other people around certain things or just the perspective on, like, so I think that what happens when, what I've felt anyway, is when you communicate how things are or you communicate the negative side of things, it triggers some people into a mode of pointing out everything that you're doing wrong or try. And I think it comes from a place of helping, but what ends up happening is, you know, 2 out of 5 interactions become wanting to deconstruct your failure or whatever it is. And I think that there's, there's maybe a, um, I get around people failing. Yeah, but there's a tone. I think there's a tone around it which is just like Oh, maybe this is our own insecurities coming up. But I think that some of it can come across as, oh, why are you doing it this way or that way? And the interesting part of it is when I get dark on it and I think about it, when I put it into perspective, many of the people who are offering advice or seem a bit dark on what we've done or why would you do that, you're onto a good thing, or what's the— like you went from 7 to 5 to, you know, why are you like making all these changes? It doesn't make sense. You can get dark on it and be like, oh, you know what, like there's a bunch of people who are saying this, but then I look and I'm like, they haven't, they haven't done it. And that's not in a negative way, that is in just the reality of how can I expect them to empathise with where we are in this journey if they haven't had to do these things?

Tommy: You wouldn't comment about a marathon runner's training.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: Or approach to a marathon if you've never done one.

Josh: Yeah, I couldn't.

Tommy: I don't know what— like, the pain, sticking through the pain. Like, there is a version of any endeavour that, um, you know, there's a lot of pain that rears its head as a result of effort. Physical exercise is just the clear one because as soon as you start, you know, moving, you can start feeling niggles and pains. But most things people are referencing aren't, yeah, personal experience to, to, to what someone else is doing. But even then, what someone else is doing is so specific to them. And so like I saw Kerwin Rae, this motivational guy, or he's like, you know, I think he's like a digital marketer that's sort of gone that Gary Vee approach, literally copied Gary Vee's approach. It worked for him. His digital media strategy. He posted this morning, uh, wake up at 4:30, it's life-changing, or something like that.

Josh: And I was like, fucking hell, it is life-changing. Oh, fuck your life.

Tommy: Fuck it. I've woke up at 4:30 for a job, dude. Didn't do it for me.

Josh: Yeah, yeah.

Tommy: I, I felt horrible.

Josh: And shouldn't all bakers be billionaires based on all you have to do is get up at 4:30? And you shouldn't— everyone that works in breakfast radio be billionaires.

Tommy: Or happy. Yeah, so like change your life. Like, and I get what he's saying. I get that there's a— there's something in sticking to something, there's something in having a rotate. Like, all of these things make sense, but there is, there is a plethora of simple, very easy to give advice on the internet. So even um, the— we've been talking like about, um, love the process. You talked about that yesterday. It's like, I reckon I've probably reeled that off, you've reeled that off. But then there is the version of people who are successful from an external perspective, looking at someone's numbers or worth or influence, whatever, and they're not fucking happy at all. So they're hating the process. So where does it sit for you? Where is and what is the success metric? Because that's what all these things— like that comment of 4:30, what does that mean? We just outlined people doing things where it's not offering this world-changing experience, life-changing experience from them. It's, um, yeah, I mean, where do you go with all this, you know?

Josh: Yeah, yeah, I think that— I mean, and this is the, um, the feeling of huge amounts of change. Um, you know, everyone's sort of experiencing that. I think a lot of people would be experiencing, you know, changing jobs or trying to get work after, you know, losing their job with everything that's been happening. But, um, yeah, like, I think that the, the question around, like, so doing something for 10 years Like, I think that this, this process of doing the Daily Talk Show is teaching us, like, this is consistency. So, the thing is that I look back and I look at consistency over the last, you know, 970 episodes. And for 99% of the time, it's easy. But then there's the 1% time where it seems like you would prefer to just not do it at all or just give up. And the weird, the weird part of it is, um, like a Bree said, oh, why do you still do the pod? Like, you know, are you liking it? Do you want to still do the podcast?

Tommy: And how negative are you on the other hand? We're hearing Bree's question.

Josh: Yeah, I think But I think that that's like, she sees the burnout, she sees the exhaustion. And it's funny, it's not even, it's not even me being like, I fucking hate, like, I'm never saying I hate the fucking doing the podcast. I think it's, um, it's everything around it. It's the, um, it is actually the storey around it. If we actually just brought it back, distilled it to you and I talking there's actually hardly any friction in that for us. The friction comes from perception and, you know, growth and what does this look like? You know, we know that, you know, if we get more guests, uh, you know, you can get more people listening, um, all of these different things. And so, um, what I guess people are experiencing now when you're listening is two people who are in part of the process where it is really painful. And we don't— it's hard because normally, like what we spoke with Pete Shepherd, it's like you're professional enough in every other context to show up and you don't sort of complain about it or you don't talk about it. But with a show that has been created as an outlet, an outlet for us. It seems disingenuous to turn on the mics and then try and have heaps of fun.

Tommy: Yeah, I mean, the analogy of a— if we're taking it to boxing is the boxer in the, in the corner covering up, getting hit by their opponent, just weathering the storm. We're pulling a Muhammad Ali at this moment, just rumble in the jungle. We're just getting We're getting hit, son. We're taking it though, and we're riding it out and we're going to come back and knock someone out.

Josh: I'm going to fuck—

Tommy: I'm going to knock Margot out.

Josh: But don't you think it's weird? It's weird because if we stopped doing the podcast now, it doesn't have any, like, like there's no problem. Like, you don't like where this is purely a decision that we're making to continue. And the fruits of what we're doing isn't actually currently here. It's not like—

Tommy: so you imagine here, yeah, the fruit's not here.

Josh: Yeah, you imagine like, um, YouTubers that are making, you know, tens of thousands of dollars a month through their YouTube channel.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: All of a sudden they're incentivized to— I have to keep on doing this, I have to keep feeding the beast, I have to keep doing all of this. Whereas we don't have that. So, yeah, I think it's a weird— I think that we thought that we would be further along at 3 years.

Tommy: Do you think there's many people that do things and actually say, fuck, I'm further than I thought I would be? Like, that's probably not the common thing.

Josh: I think that it like— you do hear the storeys of, oh, it happened so quickly, like it just felt—

Tommy: And so, um, so if, if majority businesses don't survive past 3 years, there's like a high statistic of businesses not surviving that, let alone, you know, beyond that. I think there's like a 3-5, it's like crazy.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: Which is disappointing to— if you're about to start a business, if you read that, it's like you actually are going to be an outlier, outlier in some respects. But then you look at the unicorn startups or, you know, the profit from day one businesses. It's like, that's, that's out of control. Like, that's a unicorn in itself. And so, yeah, you get to ride. You— that's where it's like, what's, what advice is, is very worth it, I think, is like, be up for riding, riding the storm. Because there is going to be one in anything you do. Think about any great— anyone doing something great that you love, as if there's not dark days for them. They're humans.

Josh: Yeah. Yeah. I think like everyone experience— experiences ruts. And so, yeah, I think I'm— just so everyone knows, I'm struggling to swallow. I had a cold sore and, uh, you got me to— what did you get me to take?

Tommy: It's not it. It's the home brand one, but it's like Famvir.

Josh: Famvir. Okay.

Tommy: They're just like—

Josh: And so I've got quite big glands.

Tommy: Well, you're sick too.

Josh: Yes. I wasn't going to say so. I don't want to scare anyone into thinking I've got COVID.

Tommy: Well, no one in Melbourne has COVID.

Josh: Maybe I do. That's how dark it gets.

Tommy: If you had it, you're a unicorn, son. Yeah, that's a—

Josh: Like, I've finally gone viral. Who would have thought? Um, yeah, no, so I think that it's, it's a weird, it's a weird scenario because I feel like previously when I've experienced what I'm feeling now, I go on annual leave, I go away, and that's like I do all of that where it feels like because we're just getting started. And when you have the responsibility with a team and all that sort of thing, it is, and having a business, it's not, it's not as easy It's like, um, it's, it's like, you know, the plane is just climbing. It's not at altitude yet. I still need to be full, like, you need to— we need to get it to altitude so I can like take my seatbelt off and know that there's going to be no turbulence. Whereas if you're sort of fucking halfway going up and then you take off, like, it's not just instilling any confidence in everyone. And everyone— I think the other thing too is it's like everyone has their own version of feeling a bit burnt out or, you know, and it's— we're in March.

Tommy: That's, that's not a good last moment of that conversation.

Josh: Very much.

Tommy: Is that a realisation or—

Josh: Yeah, yeah. No, I was going to say we're in February, you know, I was going to say we're at the start of Feb, but we're at the start of March. We did get some lovely emails though as well.

Tommy: Yes. In saying that, in where people are dissecting your whatever your situation is and the failures, if they may be there. Like, there was also people that came out and gave us beautiful emails, well-written, much better than I could respond. Yeah.

Josh: Lovely call from Trev.

Tommy: Trev Long.

Josh: Yeah. Yeah. And so, yeah, sweet.

Tommy: Very sweet.

Josh: Yeah. I think that there is obviously a bunch of that. And the other thing too is The Scooter Derek said to me, he's like, I called him, he said, now I'm trying to work out. I said, I'm driving in today. I'm just driving in. This was yesterday.

Tommy: Yeah. Yeah.

Josh: I said, I'm driving in today. And he's like, okay, good, good. He's like, I've been tracking whether you walk or drive and then what your mood is like on the show.

Tommy: That guy's got a lot of time.

Josh: But I respect it.

Tommy: But I think That's awesome.

Josh: I think the thing is that like there is, um, I definitely feel the ups and downs. I feel that like I think about the weekend for me and like, you know, going to the Twelve Apostles and doing all that sort of thing. It was like a— maybe this is part of what we're feeling. It's like you get these crazy highs now because you haven't done something, and then it's just, it's just this crazy sort of oscillation I'm feeling between going super high and excited to not feeling very good.

Tommy: Well, you started the week saying, um, we're in the Wednesday, we're halfway through the week. You said, uh, it's gonna be a great week, like super positive off the back of a weekend, still high. Yeah, flying high. Um, yeah, I mean, there's— it is— yeah, what's the— if, if there was some gratitude that needed to be thrown out there I think like, um, we've, we've come a long way.

Josh: But also I think like, um, yeah, the team. I think Jess, George, you, like, I think we've got a great team. We, um, are working on some great projects. We've got great clients. Like, all of those things are really good. But I think there's, there's definitely— so think about the storey over the last 3 years. Around, you know, what we're building. And I think that there's, there's definitely, there's definitely a version which is a reality check. You know, we're going for what's sustainable. Like, it feels like we got to the cliff around like what we could do in like, let's just see how far, you know, like, you know, follow your dreams, do all that sort of thing. And I still think we are. But I think it has the same feeling as someone who's like doing a startup and they realise they have to go and live with their parents to make it work. You know, like it's like it feels like at the time the biggest backstep you could be taking. And so there's no doubt that like the client stuff we love doing and we do it well and it's like great hearing feedback around that. But there's definitely the parallel storey that we've developed around the podcast. And even I think when D'Avella was asking us questions about the podcast, we— it's almost this feeling of exhaustion where it's like, ah, like just calling ourselves out on our own bullshit. He's like, oh, you know, show us this, or show, like, show us the graph or whatever. I was like, yeah, like What, like, if we, if we hold ourselves to this as our metric where we, like, that's out of our control. And but also the other thing too is I don't think that, uh, all of these things are linear. Like, that's what we've— I was saying on our walk yesterday, it's like, okay, um, I'm 30, you're 32. It's like if we have 10 years of this struggle to finally get through what seemed like a tunnel, you know, at 40, to me that's still a massive win. And so part of it is obviously, um, I think that quick success is celebrated and quick success is Uh, like, I think that the other thing too is the— where the podcast is, or the decisions we had to make, they're not— it can feel like they've happened based on a lack of effort, if that makes sense. So it's like when people say like, ah, are you doing this or that? It's not like— the feeling I have is like It feels like we gave everything and we have given everything. We continue to give everything, but it wasn't enough. And there's something pretty depressing about thinking it wasn't enough or, yeah.

Tommy: And I think that's the trap of the feeling of— It's probably linked to the comparison thing because if you look at someone else and think, fuck, I should be doing more, I should be getting in here at night and doing edits and like You can feel the— While it is a driving force, it's probably, if you stop and think about it, like if you stop and think about what that feeling's sort of pushing you towards, maybe there is a time and place for using it as a bit of motivation. But yeah, you're like, if you— There's— Yeah, we've put in so much fucking effort. I don't know if it's— what version— what is it good for if you decide there was— it was— we should have done more, or we should have—

Josh: well, it feels like extreme accountability in some regards. So it seems like the success— if, if there was success, the funny thing is I feel like if it was successful, it would feel less about our doing and more the external forces aligned and all had all just sort of happened, whereas failure feels more personal. It feels like all of these decisions that you made haven't necessarily worked. But this is the thing, it's a 10-year journey. We— when you look at it that way, we still have so much time left around what we're doing. And think about how quickly things changed in regards to you know, doing, you know, like, I just think about those sort of like peaks that we experience in regards to what we're doing. And I think that they'll come.

Tommy: Like, I think, um, I think the trap is though, uh, that if, if it peaked at the wrong time, our relationship wouldn't have worked. And then you— then there's nothing. Yeah, it's like a business partnership, this partnership, it's like if the partnership sucks and the business works, do you want to be in the partnership? It's probably extremely painful. Yeah.

Josh: And we are learning. I think that's the other thing too, is it's like if we had been quote unquote successful at the start, we wouldn't have done the amount of development work that we have around our skills. So if I like, I think that we are better at business, better at all of these things because it just didn't work. Like, we, you know, we didn't sort of magically fluke some sort of alignment in, you know, regards to, you know, product and market fit, and it's just sort of taken off.

Tommy: Like, I mean, it was just from the outside, maybe just thinking about myself, I think it would sting hard if you had a crack the first time, made something work, finished that up, started again. It just didn't— like, you couldn't get the stick.

Josh: Well, I was watching, um, I guess it's like the second album thing. I was watching one of the guys from Yes Theory, um, you know, that—

Tommy: that's leaving YouTube.

Josh: Yeah, yeah. Did you watch that video?

Tommy: I do. I watched a bit. He's crying to the camera. Yes Theory, they're cool dudes. I don't even know how many are bloody in that team.

Josh: Yeah, so it's like 3 main guys It's all about saying yes to opportunities and blah blah blah. And so they're doing cool stuff at the moment where it's like they went to Iraq and they went to Afghanistan last year, some really interesting stuff. And it's what I found— there's a lot of this at the moment. It's like video, like I feel like you're sending me a lot of them, which is like, uh, depressing creators talking to camera is probably—

Tommy: welcome back, guys.

Josh: And, um, yeah, that's our niche. Yeah, yeah, hit that like button, please hit the like button, um, share with your depressed creative friends. And so yeah, I think, um, consuming that— here is someone who has built a massive YouTube channel and was getting all these crazy opportunities but still said there's a voice inside me that's saying there's no— Yeah, yeah. But there's more to it. And so, for him, he's gone into writing their newsletter a couple of times a month and writing their first book.

Tommy: Okay. But, um, but he's not gonna be in the videos.

Josh: No.

Tommy: Yeah, man. Interesting. Very interesting.

Josh: And so, that's the whole thing. It's like, um, the success doesn't necessarily mean that everything gets figured out. So, the success doesn't mean that we're not going to get comments that trigger us. We'll get more of them. More, but I guess more Marcos, more Stelas. I think that what we— where we land though is that, you know, if we can get right here, if we can get the formula right when we're feeling like this, then when, you know, it doesn't matter what situation we'll be in, we'll be able to you know, get through it. Um, hi@thedailytalkshow.com is the email address if you do have an email. We got a great, um, we've gotten some lovely, uh, podcast reviews. I know we're not pushing to that because I shouldn't, I shouldn't be, um, you know, going on to the reviews because I feel like it's your heart races. Like, does it? Fuck, does it? Yeah. What do you know? What are people saying?

Tommy: Sometimes, sometimes my Mine does. But you've, but you're in there, you're deep in there.

Josh: Yeah. So, yeah, a couple that I liked. So, KRC says, long time listener, first time reviewer. Don't want to be a Stella. So, here I am with a 5-star review. Have listened for ages, but never shown my appreciation. Such an easy listen. Thanks, team.

Tommy: Which is lovely.

Josh: Ashley said, okay, I'm finally leaving a review. Listening to you guys, Josh raging on Stellar, drove me to leave a positive review to counteract the negativity. Love the podcast, love you guys, your honesty and your thought-provoking chats. Lots of fun peppered with little nuggets of wisdom.

Tommy: Yeah, and my favourite one is, um, from Charles: Love the podcast, good job Joel and Tom, can't miss a day.

Josh: Yeah, Charles means Josh. Yeah, very good guys. But yeah, I think that the reason why we communicate this stuff is because I feel like I do it because, and I think that like we both are doing it because we're like, this is how we're feeling deep down. It's not the— It's sort of like when someone says to you, you know, you're at the petrol station and they say, how are you? You say, good, good thanks. How are you?

Tommy: Good thanks.

Josh: Good thanks. How are you?

Tommy: You—

Josh: yeah, like, I, I think that because we have a podcast and because of the thing, we have sort of, uh, a role to be able to be honest, maybe. Because I'd like us to be able to look back and say we had the light and shade, and then, you know, hopefully it helps some people.

Tommy: Well, because I think Uh, everyone has a version of struggle for themselves internally, mentally, and not everyone fucking communicates it, dude. Not everyone does. Not everyone has someone to talk about it to. I don't even necessarily, uh, go out of my way to talk about this shit. Like, the, the pot— like, because so then in that is that I struggle doing that. I struggle going to somebody and just blurting what I'm thinking and feeling. And so, that is a lot of people as well. They don't know how to articulate. Not that they can't, not that they're not capable, but just that they don't— Like I was saying about Amy, like I put little things out, like little bits of bait for her to try and prompt me because I want her to coach it out of me, which is not kind or clear because then I don't blame her at all for not picking up on the scent.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: But she can sniff it. She can sniff it.

Josh: Yeah. And I think that the other thing too is if you're feeling this way, it can feel like you're just a burden as well, because it's not like, uh, okay, like, so if we, you know, one thing that we talk about is the storeys thing. We have our stories, we have our struggles, other people have the same sort of thing. So the idea that like, um, you know our— we're the only guys experiencing issues. Like, I don't feel that at all. I know. Like, and so that's where I don't necessarily— like, it's funny when I get home, I, as even a guy who loves communicating, I'm like, I actually can't be bothered reliving the negativity in my mind. Does that make sense? Yeah. It's like, oh yeah, talk— let's talk about it. It's actually like painful for me to talk about it.

Tommy: Which, and there's two versions of this. One is, uh, you want to kind of not escape, but you want to, uh, so for me, being with Amy and not thinking too much about the shit going on is, is, is cathartic.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: Like actually just being present.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: Because it pulls you out of the moment.

Josh: Problem solve. Like, because yeah, I feel like, say if you were to say to Amy, I'm feeling this, this, this, her natural response is like, okay, well, like, let's talk it through. Let's try and work it out. Like, what can we— And it's like, it at least feels from my perspective like we've done a lot of thinking around it. And like, sometimes maybe the only thing you can do is just sit in it a little bit. You know, you just, you know, this is, this is the reality for a bit.

Tommy: Especially when things aren't crazy wrong and you're just feeling necessary, just feeling off. Yeah. And so it's a bit different if you are needing to strategize your way out of shit.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: But, you know, lots to be grateful for, team.

Josh: Name one thing. I've got nothing.

Tommy: Putting my head on Amy's tummy and being kicked in the head by our little baby girl.

Josh: That's cute.

Tommy: That's beautiful.

Josh: That was last week, though. Yeah.

Tommy: I mean, even just last— yes, last night, it felt like I feel just feeling, just feeling the life and grateful for my wife who is growing a fucking human.

Josh: Yeah, right. I think, like, yeah, I mean, on my side, it's like just having someone to be able to go home to and to chill with is nice. Watch, um, Billie Eilish. Watch the rest of it tonight. Cute. All right, uh, enjoy the rest of your day, guys. We'll see tomorrow. Have a good one.

Tommy: See you guys.