20 Questions For Humans

Tommy: It's a very low barrier to get into the Gronk Squad.

Josh: That's crazy. We've committed to do The Daily Talk Show for 10 years.

Tommy: Say hi, guys. Hi, guys.

Josh: Put it in the calendar. I just like to cheque the temperature in the room. I told you my squeegee story.

Tommy: It is outrageous.

Josh: Come on, let's go. It's The Daily Talk Show, episode 972.

Tommy: What is happening? What is going on?

Josh: If you're watching on YouTube, please hit that like button. And if you're on a podcast app, Thank you, you little nerd. I love podcasts too. Aren't they great?

Tommy: I love it. I love it.

Josh: Are you listening to any podcasts?

Tommy: No. No, no, I am. I am. Theo Vaughn, comedian.

Josh: What does he talk about?

Tommy: Oh, I mean, he goes, it's just the most random shit to then some really sort of deep.

Josh: Does he really do deep? I can't imagine him being a deep guy.

Tommy: Yeah, well, he has, he has people, very smart people on his podcast. But it's like us, it's a mixed bag.

Josh: Yes.

Tommy: Like sometimes you get just like a freckle in your lolly bag.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: Other times you get a sherbet. You know, you never know what you're going to pull out.

Josh: And so, today we thought we would— It's like, what could we do that would be a bit of fun?

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: Thank you for all the emails, hi@thedailytalkshow.com. Got a lovely email from Paulina.

Tommy: Yeah, thanks.

Josh: Thank you for sending that through. Today we are doing We're going through the 20 Questions for Humans by our mate Craig Harper. Yeah.

Tommy: Great book.

Josh: Little—

Tommy: It's almost like a little hand guide to life. He wrote this a few years ago and it's great. On the back, you've got all the questions. And so, we're going to go one for one. And Craig has answered them in the book.

Josh: But—

Tommy: And so, if you want a real clear, succinct, quality answer, you got to buy the book. Yeah. If you want, you know, a gronk answer, A mixed bag, you get to get it, you're going to get it from us.

Josh: Well, what he says is when we ask high-quality questions, we're more likely to make better decisions, embrace healthier behaviours, think more logically, produce better outcomes and change our life for the better. This book was written for that reason.

Tommy: Literally yesterday I quoted Craig Harper. I said, we know what to do, but we don't do what we know. I mean, he didn't come up with that. He says a lot. It's great. It's logic.

Josh: And the idea of this book, too, is there's a whole "your note" section. So, like, you can— You're meant to be writing in as you go about what you take away from it.

Tommy: There is one thing about a nice book with a note section. I panic.

Josh: You don't want to write in it.

Tommy: I'm almost— Yeah, because I don't trust myself that I'm going, you know, like I don't— It's like you're going to be messy. It's great. But then I'm like, there's only a limited amount. What if I blow it and I want to write, you know, I'm overthinking it. I'm overthinking it. Who wants to start with?

Josh: I can ask you a question.

Tommy: Yeah. We got to go from the top, though. Yes. Great.

Josh: That's what I was going to do. No, it did sound like I was just going to do it. Do it randomly.

Tommy: If you ask me randomly, it would be over. We'd miss about 5.

Josh: Question 1.

Tommy: And there has to be— We only have a small amount of time to answer. And if you don't, just don't talk. Like, don't just go for it.

Josh: Sure. Okay. What's my life telling me?

Tommy: What is my life telling me? What is Tommy Jackett's life telling me? Upon the "we know what to do, we don't do what we know." A great example of that is sticking to that exercise, that head health. It's a new way of saying it, that head health habit. So, the difference in getting up in the morning, going to the gym and meditating. Did you go this time?

Josh: I did.

Tommy: I slept in, went yesterday, going tonight. But I say, I even say that, but I know I should do it regardless in the morning because what it does is it sets me up. So my life is telling me that I need to stick and have that routine rock solid. Haven't missed a day of meditation in years.

Josh: That's good.

Tommy: But even when I leave it to the last minute of the day, I still can find it like I just make it. And so what the difference in getting it done in the morning, my life is telling me that I should get it done early. So that you're not trying to catch up by the end of the day and having that vibe, even that energy towards doing something, just making it. I don't like that energy. I like having made it because that means I've succeeded in showing up and sticking to something.

Josh: Okay, question for me.

Tommy: What am I— number 2, what are my core values and how do I live in alignment? So core values and how do you live in alignment?

Josh: Core value, uh, not, uh, not following the status quo, I think, is a core value. Uh, how am I living in alignment? I think that I'm constantly questioning what I'm doing, and, um, I'm, uh, yeah, I'm sceptical of common advice.

Tommy: Okay, um, just to elaborate on that, what is a core value that is more personal to, uh, you? Just your— I feel like that's one to following the status quo is like looking at how other people view what you're doing. But what's something to Josh Jansen, like a personal one? Like it could be like, uh, trust, or it could be like a core value.

Josh: So you don't think that that's a core value?

Tommy: No, no, I think it is. Um, but I want like a personal sort of like a, um, you know, the people you surround yourself with. Like, what's a, what's a core value from— I guess you could, you could look at like, um, that could be work-related, right? Not following status quo or like career or business. What is a, a personal one?

Josh: Uh, yeah, sure, let's have a think.

Tommy: It's a hard question. This is the thing about this book. It's a simple question, but it's hard because—

Josh: Well, I always say I'm a generous guy.

Tommy: Yeah, that's a great—

Josh: But I've gotten a lot of pushback about being generous for driving, which the thing is, this is why I'm wary of saying the values, because, uh, I do— they're, they're personal. So it's your version of what generosity looks like.

Tommy: Exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Josh: Uh, yeah, no, so a bit of a core Like, I think it really, like, a core value is around, um, like creativity. So thinking creatively. Um, uh, yeah, I think that that's the, that's the main one. If I think about like virtues or think about like, yeah, yeah, I don't know.

Tommy: I think, um, I think you nailed it with your first answer. I think creativity—

Josh: asked me a second time. So yeah, yeah, no, I think like, yeah, it's creativity. It's internal. You ask questions. I know that these don't seem like value— curiosity is a value, I guess. And so curiosity is a big one for me. So it's curious about beyond what the norm is. Curiosity around people are complex. Ask questions. I think curiosity is a big one.

Tommy: I think both. Spot on for you.

Josh: Why do I self-sabotage?

Tommy: Because things are painful. Because I might be experiencing some mental pain. And so, you sabotage because that's easier, but it's harder on the other side. So, if you're feeling shit and you drink, you're hungover the next day. It's at— you're actually in a worse state than, uh, a worse state to deal with any of the struggles in the, you know, post-sabotaged state. Um, and so why do I do it? Why? I think the sabotage is the easy go-to for a lot of us. It feels like it's the easy option, uh, or the most obvious thing. But yeah, it's, it's, yeah, it's this— I mean, it can be a cycle for some people. Sabotaging is like, that's always what I've done when, when, when, you know, stuff is going bad. Or, um, you know, it's, uh, sometimes it feels good to sabotage.

Josh: Yeah, that's the fucking problem with it. Has sabotaging ever served you?

Tommy: Um, I think you, if you, if you've sabotaged enough, it could be, it can bring you to the, um, crucible moment. It can be like, I've done too much of this, caught myself in the mirror.

Josh: I guess there's a difference between self-sabotage and sabotage as well.

Tommy: Like, so you're talking, I'm referring everything is to myself, like sabotaging. So it's like you, you, you want to be healthy and you, and then your next minute eating a bag of almonds.

Josh: So it was a sabotage last night. What is the, what's the definition of sabotage? Not sure, because I think the thing is that like the Is sabotage the result of the thing or sabotage the thing?

Tommy: Well, sabotage would be that you— So, in reference to wanting to live, wanting to eat well, this is just an easy go-to.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: I want to eat well and I want to change my body. So, that's the outcome I want. And then you actively do something that is counter to what you're wanting.

Josh: So it's an out-of-alignment thing. But I think what'd be interesting is, is this— so self-sabotage, I guess anything that is out of alignment with what you're trying to do would be self-sabotage. But I wonder if there is a sabotage that actually works for you. So if you think about the creative process, creative process is about breaking things and rebuilding and doing all of that. Is there a version of sabotage that actually serves? I guess self-sabotage, no, based on, you know, self being your goals, where you're aligned to sabotaging that, not great.

Tommy: Well, if you're in a project with a bunch of people and one person sabotages the outcome, then that's like a self-sabotage based on it not being a collective, uh, conclusion that we want to sabotage this, you know.

Josh: So it is always So, someone like sabotaging a relationship that they're in because unconsciously they don't want to be in the relationship.

Tommy: Yeah. And so, that's self-sabotage. And so, when is—

Josh: But so, that sabotage though is like a version of serving them because they're like, ah, they don't have the willingness or the consciousness to do— Yeah. To do it in a way that's very direct.

Tommy: Yeah. I know what you mean.

Josh: So, you end up doing it, you end up getting to the outcome that you want purely by sabotaging the position that you're currently in.

Tommy: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, 100%.

Josh: So yeah, but I guess like, you know, so for instance, self-sabotage on the food thing, um, you know, like, or, you know, being out of alignment with that, maybe, um, maybe you don't want to do the thing. Like, so like, maybe you don't want to exercise. So if you don't want to exercise and you're sabotaging the, um, you know, your, uh, your alarm or whatever, or you miss the thing or whatever. Like, you're getting what you want. I know, the sabotage is an interesting word.

Tommy: It is an interesting word. Uh, okay, next one. What's the best question I can ask?

Josh: Uh, the best question I can ask is, what's the worst that could happen? Yeah, yeah, I think, yeah, I think, um, Yeah, especially at the moment where things feel doomsday or whatever it is, it can be an easy way to get perspective.

Tommy: Yeah, I like that. I like that.

Josh: Okay.

Tommy: Number 5.

Josh: Number 5. How does the other person see this?

Tommy: Great question. Almost links back to what we talked about yesterday. Yeah. Margo. Multiple truths. Multiple realities, different— I mean, yeah, there's—

Josh: And so how do you answer that?

Tommy: How does the other person see this? I think it's a question to ask in anything you're doing where you are having your actions or your—

Josh: So we're contextualising the question, but do you have an example that you could use?

Tommy: So how does— How did Margot see it? The conversation where we had with about Mr. 97 and the changes to our business, um, people could— how, how does the other person see this? They don't see it the way we do. Yeah.

Josh: So how do they say— so I guess it's a way of getting empathy. Yeah.

Tommy: And so all— so I don't think it's actually needing to embody and, and then shift your way of seeing something into the other person's way of saying something. But just like the perspective of realising that the way you view something isn't necessarily the end.

Josh: So, yeah. But what is it like? Can you try and enter into it? How does the other person see this? So, if you take away your intent from, say, a negative comment, what are they trying to do? What are they trying to articulate?

Tommy: Yeah. So, you could look at They are trying to communicate that we have or I have done a bad job at communicating. I, or, you know, you could look at it and go, did I misspeak in the way I articulated that? Did we, when we think about the, if we say, okay, that conversation about Mr. 97, we did our best job at articulating the truth or the outline. What—

Josh: so how does the other person see this?

Tommy: How does the other person see this? They— I mean, isn't there enough to take out of it that there is a different way that they are observing it from? So then what I'm connecting to is my truth, is not theirs.

Josh: And I think that there's A version of actually entering into it, like if, like going into their shoes and saying, okay, like they've said this thing, what are they seeing? So, they've seen something different to you.

Tommy: It's hard because we're not, it's probably not the best example. There's probably a clearer one. How does the other person see this? So, if I did something, so if I actively did something, I'm just trying to work out. Um, how does the other person say it?

Josh: Well, so someone's saying like, you've lost me here, like, you know, referring to—

Tommy: Oh, let's have an example. Once I got into the car and I had a 7-Eleven coffee in my hand and you fucking got pissed because I didn't get you one.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: And I was like, in my mind I thought, Josh, it's like a 7-Eleven coffee, it's $1. I was like, I'll quickly get a coffee.

Josh: Yeah, this was—

Tommy: And I didn't think about you.

Josh: This was 2 years ago.

Tommy: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Josh: But it was 2 years ago we had 5:30, you know, like picking you up from the— from, uh, your place.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: And so you get into the car, oh, g'day mate, and you got your coffee. I was like, mate, where the fuck is my coffee?

Tommy: Yeah, but you got real shitty. And if I, if I ask myself that question, how does the other person see this? The other person sees a selfish fucking chipper bloke who's fucking hot on caffeine, just raring to go. And I could have seen maybe you felt off, maybe you were like, I I want right now is a coffee. But you hadn't even articulated that yet, but you felt like that. And I didn't, I didn't consider someone else. I was selfish. So I'm sorry. But that's how you get to understanding. I think that question leads to empathy, um, for the other person and what they're going through, or what, or just their, their situation or their way of viewing you. Because I could easily just say it my way, which is a story. So seeing it your way seeing it your way versus the person's way is the storey that you've surrounded that event with. So I mean, yeah, I like these. The thing about these questions are they can go so deep, you can just keep asking. Um, for you, Josh, what's my why?

Josh: You're getting the real fucking hard ones, dude. I think, uh, my why is it'd be funny if he's done Easy, hard, easy, hard. And we've just, uh, what my why is to work out why I'm meant to be here in life. What, what's my purpose? Um, so it's, it's actually another question. Yeah, so it's, so it's rather than, uh, having the why, my job is to understand how I fit into the world and what I can, what value I can bring. Does that make sense? Um, or do you think that's not answering it?

Tommy: I think there's a version of that. I think because I think about the people who answer it and they're like, my why is to serve people.

Josh: And so this is the cliché thing that I just don't want to enter into. I don't actually, uh, so like what I'm— I love making things so that other people can relate to it. The reason why a lot of that is self-expression. I want to, like, express myself. I like that it can help other people.

Tommy: It's—

Josh: I think that I would be talking shit if I was to say that, like, there's many other things I could be doing to help people every day. And so, I'm wary of just saying my why is to help people.

Tommy: Mine's not that.

Josh: My why. My why. Is, um, is to make sense, is, is to make sense of life. Like, that's really what I feel like I'm doing every day. Um, and so on the purpose thing, uh, the— yeah, I don't— it's, it's not as clear as like, okay, I've got a clear answer, I'm doing this. It's actually by the end, like, through the process It's not like a thing where I arrive where I'm like, I've worked out my why, I've worked out my purpose. It is the process of doing it every day.

Tommy: Yeah. And do you think that if you had that one-liner, I guess like a business before you start it and thinking about its values, do you think it's worth— I've worked on— effort has a good why?

Josh: I've worked on with enough people, worked on enough projects where we're filming some people's why, uh, and then seeing them being completely out of alignment with their why. And so I'm really jaded. I'm, I'm wary to virtue signal a great answer where my why right now feels like figuring it out and understanding where I fit. Um, and so that could be in, uh, doing creative— like, so what I feel like my why is, or what the, the mission, or what I'm trying to do, it's constantly express it, creating creative stuff that people can enjoy. But I think, um, the thing that has changed over the years, I think, um, uh, has gone from doing it for other people, uh, to doing it for myself. Like, I feel like with my work, I'm really doing it for me. If that makes sense.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: And so by saying like, say, watching like the Billie Eilish doco, you get the sense it's like all for fans and it's like trying to— and I don't feel that energy. I feel like I would burn out if I was to do that.

Tommy: Yeah. She's young. What's my change? And that's— it can change. Your why can change. So whatever you're saying now can change.

Josh: Question for you. Question 7. Yeah. In 20 Questions for Humans by Craig Harper. Who's a qualified human.

Tommy: And you're on the Daily Talk Show. Thank you for joining. It's a real radio reset right there.

Josh: Did you not like it?

Tommy: No, I quite liked it. I just had to point it out.

Josh: Yeah. What's my plan? Question 7.

Tommy: What is my plan? What's my plan?

Josh: Tommy Jackett's joining us.

Tommy: Plans are— There's— I think there's multiple plans at play.

Josh: If you're enjoying this too, hit the like button.

Tommy: Yeah. Yeah.

Josh: Or subscribe on your favourite platform.

Tommy: Turn that bell on. What's my plan? Multiple plans at play. We've got business plans, personal plans.

Josh: What's your plan? So, I think it's interesting you say "we" a lot. What's your plan? What's my plan?

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: What's my plan? Answer it for yourself.

Tommy: What comes to mind is strapping the seatbelt on for life. Life. There's a lot of things out of our control. And even the things that we feel are in our control, there's still a version of those. Like why you like what you fucking like for food, why you haven't stuck at something. There's many of these things that are unanswerable.

Josh: And so what's your plan?

Tommy: So I don't think in my life I've had necessarily a plan that is you know, strategic in a one-pager or a why that is crisp and fucking succinct like Peter Shepherd. I don't think it's in my nature necessarily to have that plan.

Josh: Pete's also figuring it all out.

Tommy: Yeah, but when we ask him, he's a coach and he does think about this stuff, and he said, um, meaningful work with people, you know, like, and so he has got that. And I get it, I get it.

Josh: Um, But there's also the context of work, why your company and then personal stuff.

Tommy: So I haven't articulated my plan. My plan—

Josh: Because you don't have one.

Tommy: No, not in the scheme of if you said, what's your business plan? And you slide across the table the written out business plan.

Josh: I think this is the point of the question, which is, so what is your plan? So what you've always— We've spoken about it internally, which is like if you don't have a strategy, that is your strategy. You get pulled into all these different directions.

Tommy: But my life has played out in a way of sort of navigating and moving towards the things that I obsess about and think about.

Josh: What is that?

Tommy: And the areas— like, I think where I'm at is a, is a manifestation of where I've wanted to go. And so where I've wanted to go in the past was, you know, into my personal training career, or, you know, exploring the health industry, and then what that meant for me personally and understanding how I was trying training my body in that. And then it moved into media, and it was an expression of my creativity. I was yearning for doing more from a creative aspect. I knew I had it in me. I didn't know that I could do it. I hadn't done it. And so then that sort of went down that journey of the presenting thing. Like, it all— I'm relating these things to career, but they've also related to internal feelings and, and, um, and, and things that I wanted to you know, serve.

Josh: And so, so there were previous plans, like I think by witnesses.

Tommy: I'm getting there. It's so that has been building the foundation of wanting to build something that is creatively rewarding, is, has other people a part of it. So the, like you and I wanting to have a creative team and being able to help other people do a creative endeavour for themselves and scratch that itch. And so All of that has been a part of my plan that I just haven't written down necessarily.

Josh: Do you think you would benefit? This is not in the book. Would you benefit from writing down this plan?

Tommy: That was my question to you about your why. Do you think you'd benefit from actually articulating? And I think there's a yes for both the, you know, the questions, one to you, one to me. I think there is. But even so, Matthew McConaughey in his book Greenlights wrote a diary and wrote stuff down that he wanted to do but didn't look at it, like, but looked at it years later and he's like, fuck, I've done all of those. And so I've been through periods of my life where I've written out stuff, you know, every year, right, done, you know, written down my goals or whatever. And I felt like when I was less successful, if I was to look at my life back then and look to where I am now, you know, think, fuck, that's great, you've come so far. When I, when I really had those internal sort of, um, itches, or, um, you know, I felt sort of annoyed at where I was, I would write that down and it was very helpful.

Josh: Do you think that your relationship with the idea of a plan changed last year?

Tommy: Uh, from COVID Yeah. Um, I think I've literally this week had moments where I was like, almost like it sunk in what last year was. Like when now our business, you know, is doing much better. Well, it's a business. Last year there was no business for most people. But like looking at the work we've got on, the business, and actually then going, holy shit, like the storey dealing with it in the middle of COVID and, you know, not being able to operate a business is like you just— it's survival mode, but you kind of almost aren't. I felt shit and it was hard, but it's not like the the understanding of it now when you're back in work mode and looking to be like, oh my God, like, that was fucking touch and go, seriously. And so understanding that, yeah, there was nothing, there was no— we couldn't have a plan. Like, we did have a plan, we doubled down on content. Yeah, we just— but that's what it naturally evolved. It's like, we can't do anything else, let's do it. So I think, yes, answer your question, beneficial in writing down a plan, then that plan might just look like what you want to be doing, what's the stuff you love, what aren't you doing, why, you know, like a whole range of questions that aren't necessarily like a strategic business plan. And so, yeah, I think there's for me more value in like, who's it? What kind of a partner do I want to be? What kind of a husband do I want to be? I don't have a partnership and a husband. It is that husband. But what kind of a dad do I want to be? You know, how do I want to be as a business partner? Like all these things which I think about, and then I look at where my values sit and, and, and feeling, am I in alignment with this stuff, actually is the plan. But I don't have it written down, Craig. Sorry, mate.

Josh: Okay, you can ask me a question. Yeah.

Tommy: Why do I think the way I do? Number 9— number 8. Why do I think the way I do?

Josh: Uh, because it was the way I was born, I think. Um, now why do I think the way I do? I think like upbringing, you know, what the, the experiences I had when I was younger. Because I started freelancing when I was 14, I created a bunch of habits, some good, some bad, but a bunch of ideas on what it means to create, what it means to collaborate. And so I think, um Definitely the first 20 years of my life has really, you know, shaped what I think now at the age of 30.

Tommy: Yeah. I mean, we are a product of our environments, which we almost have our beliefs handed to us from an early stage in our life, you know. And so then, of course, you can— I mean, onto the second, this next question, which kind of feeds what you just said.

Josh: Number 9, how can I change the way I think?

Tommy: Yeah, so just on that, you being handed beliefs, that's your question, and it forming the way you think. Uh, the way that I can change the way I think, um, action, you know, um, physiology changes psychology. Another Craig Arthur line. Fuck, I'm good. Craig's good, actually.

Josh: I'm just repeating. You remember it though?

Tommy: Um, No, physiology changes psychology. So, um, moving your body can change what's going on upstairs. Habits, you know, can, it can shift. So if I think, which is a belief, that I can't stick to anything and then I never try, um, my thinking is going to be the same in that. But if I manage to actively stick to something whatever it be, exercise, you know, business or, you know, personal, whatever it be, that can shift my belief, which is the thinking. And so, there's consumption. There's what am I watching? What am I reading?

Josh: I think what you are doing is the biggest indicator of what you're thinking. Don't you think? It's like—

Tommy: Well, your actions are speaking your values. So, that's— So, how someone acts is usually good. Um, you know, example of, yeah, like you said, what, what their beliefs are, what their values are.

Josh: Well, I think the other thing too is like what is very common in sort of motivation stuff is it's like, it's not like you, um, a lot of people wait to think a certain way to then do the thing, whereas the weirdness is that a lot of the times you need to do the thing to unlock the thinking. And so if you're waiting for some sort of motivation to go to the gym, it's never going to be there. So, you need to do it without it to then gain it, which is really annoying.

Tommy: Yeah. Yeah.

Josh: Is it your turn to ask me a question?

Tommy: Oh, yeah. My turn. Question 10. What is reality? Josh Johnson.

Josh: Yeah. Reality is what you think. Reality is how— What you surround yourself with and what you focus on. And so the— I think that reality is really interesting for us because a lot of things have gotten better for us. But if you focus on the negative stuff, which we have just through ebbs and flows— like, I was thinking about, um, uh, times where I felt like this, but we forget, like, we forget We're really good at forgetting the shit times and remembering the good times. So, you forget that, like, so, when something's happening, this is how I feel anyway. When I feel like I'm being negative, it feels like it's the most negative I've ever been and it's never been worse. And then I'm like, think about it and I'm like, okay, this habit here of sleeping in or just like, you know, you know, these things, it's like, oh, you know, I've done this before. This has all happened before. And so part of it is reality is the view we choose to, to, to pick. So if it's like a 360 view and there's all different types of emotions and feelings, uh, we can actually pivot and change that perspective. But sometimes it feels like the weather. You are everything is pointing you to feel a certain way. And I think that that's like what resistance is. Resistance is everything is feeling a certain way, and sometimes you can be, you know, the wind can be blowing in a certain direction and you can push against it. But then there's the other version, which is you enter into it. And I think that everyone— I don't think Anyone, uh, I think there's very few people who— that don't feel the varying levels of emotion. So the idea that you're meant to be like this, you know, idle sort of energy, just, you know, nor here nor there type of thing, like, that, that isn't life. And so thinking about, uh, negativity as something that's a reality in time— yeah, I think when I think about reality, I think about time. I think about this thing that I'm experiencing now is only the perspective based on where I am right now, but it will change. And I think the other thing too is it's like there's, there's lots of things that you can do, like what you talk about, and go for a walk, do all this sort of thing to change your reality. But sometimes, and this is on the sabotage thing, sometimes, uh, the crucible moment, being able to be like, being able to break yourself down to then rebuild is exactly what you need, if that makes sense. Like, you know, the, the worst, if you know Some people are just really lucky that things don't fuck up for them. But, and so this is, this is part of it. It's like, um, uh, this is what, like, success— whilst we can have some level of control, it's— if you had, uh, you could have had a business in 2019 that, um, did really well compared to 2020 where it's completely different. And so Um, yeah, reality is what you're viewing at this specific time, but there's no single reality. It's like mise-en-scène in film. You've got a frame, and what you're seeing is just in that frame. And sometimes it's a comedy and you're having a great time, and other times it's a horror. That was French, I believe. Charlotte, yeah, so listen, mise-en-scène, is it French?

Tommy: Number 11.

Josh: This is for you.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: What's it like being around me? So, what's it like being around you?

Tommy: What's it like being around me? If I was to ask myself that question, um, uh, I, I won't answer it straight away. I will get to it. But I bet what I've—

Josh: But I'm reminding you, you are listening to The Daily Talk Show and we are reading 20 Questions for Humans by Craig Harper. Please hit that like button on, or if you're on the podcast apps, thanks for joining us.

Tommy: I had a moment where I realised how it was to be around me at a certain point in my life, and it was recently. Yeah, very recently. I can even remember where I was walking. I was walking down Victoria Street and I was thinking about me when I was a, you know, a young PT, all about that protein. All about that chicken breast and rice.

Josh: Same pole down the road.

Tommy: Yeah, yeah, just— I, I just— I had to get my protein in, had to get it in. And I used to go down to the— obsessed, obsessed. That's how I put on 20 kilos, bro.

Josh: I'll tell you how I did 20 kilos. Messina, there's more than one way to skin a cat. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Tommy: Um, but I used to go to lawn in the summertime friend had a holiday house down there and there was a place called Andrew's Chicken Joint and it was like a charcoal chicken. Fucking brilliant. If you're ever in Lorne, Victoria, great. Oh mate, it all— I didn't do that stuff back then. It was all about that chicken and salad.

Josh: Tabouli? Yeah.

Tommy: Used to hit the tabouli. I love that tabouli train. And I just had this moment where I realised that— On Victoria Street?

Josh: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So you remember, so Victoria Street recently.

Tommy: Recently.

Josh: You were thinking about something That happened 10 years ago.

Tommy: Yeah. It anchors. I have— So, I have moments where I can listen to a podcast and I literally will listen back to it and I'll remember where I first heard it. Like, I'm like, I was at Punt Road, the corner, you know. It really embeds. There's something about the audio journey that cements with a memory of the moment, like where you're bringing it up.

Josh: Well, that's more like the memory games. You can like set up a how— Like a path and you go through the path and you place things on the path.

Tommy: That's how you remember. It's like me remembering.

Josh: Me asking you about starting a business together near Todd Road on the exit of Port Melbourne.

Tommy: I love it. I love it. So, that's the Victoria Street thing.

Josh: That reminds you of Andrew's Chicken Shop?

Tommy: So, because I had a breakthrough moment of observing how I was to be around in that moment, which is funny because it's years later, but I was like, my friends that I was with up there, these girls would like, like, love, I think, just like getting me excited about Andrew's Chicken Joint. I was like, do you want to go get some chicken? But I was just like, fuck, they— it must have been a bit comedic to them in a fun way because they love me.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: And they— but they would get me fired up and it was, do you want to go, you know?

Josh: And you're real serious. They would— yeah, yeah, yeah.

Tommy: I would even get like, years later, I'd like get texts of the Andrew's Chicken joint, like a photo, and be like, the best.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: But it became a thing and, and And at that moment I was realising—

Josh: Why in Victoria Street did they come to you?

Tommy: Mate, stop getting bogged down a bit. Victoria Street, it was just a place that I just literally had a moment where I remembered. And so it was a moment where I, years later, realised what I was like to be around. And I could think I was really putting myself in their position, thinking about them.

Josh: But what made you think about that?

Tommy: Don't know, dude.

Josh: You think it's like, 'cause you do it, like you do it to me, I think sometimes where it's like, you purposefully enter into my world. So you like, it's a thing I think you've especially started this year where it's like, oh, you know what? Like I'm thinking about what Josh wants or needs or makes things easier. Like we're on a shoot and sometimes I hate like fucking just dealing with all the— like I love the cinematography part of filming, but the pack down pisses me off sometimes. And we're on the shoot and TJ's like, mate, just fucking chill. Take a seat. We actually need everyone's hands. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. To do this. Like, I actually need to help. That's being selfless. If I was to sit down, I'd feel like a real piece of work. No, but you were doing it from a nice place. Like, no, no, just sit down. Yeah, but that is you active. That's, that's the chicken shop. That's you thinking about like, what would Like Josh doesn't want to be doing this.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: Is that right?

Tommy: Yeah, 100%. And so, there's then the in-the-moment thinking, which is what Craig really wants us to think about, I think. What's it like being around me in this moment, in this business? And I think it's highlighted when we have different— So, from a business context, you and I are very different. And so if I think about what it's like for the people in this business, what it's like from them being around me, and, and then I— yeah, it's, it's confronting, um, because you then realize, yeah, what you're really— you're analysing your behavior, you're thinking about, you know, how you spoke to somebody, you're thinking about your mood. If anything, I probably am more— we talk a lot about, we get meta about a lot of things. And so that is about our emotions, which is thinking about how we are to be around. Like the conversation after yesterday's podcast probably was a good shift when Jess and George said, fuck you guys, I'm depressed. That's a realisation in that moment where It snapped me out of the feeling, um, back to the toxic masculinity. No, but it snapped me out of it. It's like, oh, you see how we're coming across to people?

Josh: Is it our job to— is it our job to make people feel comfortable around us? This is not a great conversation. Yeah, yeah. Is it our job? So in that moment where you change to make them feel better, is that your job?

Tommy: No, I don't think I'm changing to make them feel better. It's a perspective shifter. Like, it's another one, Craig, your questions, they're great to ask because they get you thinking. That's what he said.

Josh: Iz Harris, who's a YouTuber, she has a great line of clothes and one of them is a jumper or sweater, as I would say. And it's not here to make you feel comfortable. Not here to make you feel comfortable. Which is such a funny, like, wearing it at a family event, just fuck off. Just chill out. You don't have to argue about it.

Tommy: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Josh: Wearing a sweater that says, "I'm not here to make you feel comfortable," is really like, "I'm ready to fight politics." 100%.

Tommy: And because I think there's a— I get the funniness of it, but there's also like—

Josh: I don't think— I think that for especially for women where you feel like you have to be made, you know, this is what a bunch of women have said, like, you know, you have to feel small in the room or, you know, change. Sort of, you know, be a chameleon in every environment, fit into a man's world. I guess with that thinking, I'm not here to make you feel comfortable is pushback to that. It's a sort of—

Tommy: which is fair. So there's also some real fuckwits out there that have no gauge on how they're perceived or how their actions affect the people around them. Like probably the fuckhead CEO businessman who's making his employees, especially women, feel like small Small individuals. And so, like, at that point, that question is, would be poignant for him to ask. And so, it's, yeah, we think a lot about who we are and who I am is my actions. Who I am is how I treat people. Who I am is what I believe and think. Is made up of all of those things. And so if you can just be checking on them, you know, I'm a fuckwit to be around.

Josh: That's what I'm saying. And I am Josh Janson. I'm joined by my co-host Tommy Jackett. It is The Daily Talk Show. I actually could get into AM.

Tommy: Yeah, I know you could, mate. I love it. What are we up to?

Josh: The top of 21 today, currently 19 in Abbotsford.

Tommy: Question 12: Am I efficient or just busy?

Josh: I don't think I've got an issue with busy. I've pushed back on busy my whole life. So, the idea of like getting into the hamster wheel sort of thing doesn't really— It's not a problem I have. Efficiency, not great. I think I go around, like go a long way for certain things. And there's other things that I'm highly efficient on. A lot of procrastination, but at the same time, very good at distilling things into a very simple process around this, this, this, this. That's why on videos it's like I'm very good with understanding key messages, distilling it down, not fucking around shooting heaps of other stuff, getting to the point. Yeah. But I think, yeah, I think that that question is obviously going to serve a lot of the people who it's like you're constantly doing stuff, writing, you know, thousands of emails a day. I'm not that guy. Yeah. Is that fair?

Tommy: Yeah, I like that.

Josh: What is success for me?

Tommy: Oh, thanks for asking. Success for me is a— I was going to say successfully managing, but I guess I can. Managing my state, managing my mind. Like, I feel that navigating So, it's not as much like about material or monetary, like in the part, like I think they're the things you go to, a lot of people go to quite quickly when they think of success. But if I'm having great relationships, I'm doing the things that I say I'm going to do, which, you know, is probably one of my values of I like, if I'm going to say I'm going to do something, I will do it. Um, and so if I'm— success, it sounds cliché, but like being in alignment with your own values is a version of success because it, it makes you feel sort of harmonious. You know, there's little things that are success— doing meditation. Um, so there's so many little things. And so I probably thought about money recently, about success and money, and like as I get older and where I want to be and having a, you know, having a house. And so, you see how it shifts.

Josh: So, someone making— This is what I've been thinking about with the money thing is someone who gets lucky through a few transactions through Bitcoin or something like that, it's not really— You can have a big bank account, but that doesn't make you successful. Doesn't mean that you've lived a rich life. And so it's very problematic assigning success with money because, um, success also is in some sort of destination where you arrive. Obviously it's something that you have glimmers of feeling success, like maybe like wins, like you've had— you have wins. But if it's— if you see success as having wins, it's like every day is a new game and some you win, some you lose. And then your life is a sum of all those games rather than winning one big game.

Tommy: Yeah. Yeah. It's— Yeah, it makes it hard to answer the success thing when you start really sort of understand, like, so if you understand that like every day is going to be a mix of emotions. So, if happiness was your goal at that point, you'd be upset because most days there will be aversion of feeling not in the state of happiness.

Josh: You're not having a bad day, you're having a bad moment. Yeah, well, tell that to me because I'm having a shit month. I mean, it's early in the month, early in the month.

Tommy: But I think they're probably important if you're looking at, you know, something. So for businesses, making money is how you ticker, you know, and keep ticking. And so there is, um, yeah, it's varying for me. Varying for me. Uh, for you, Josh, question 14: Am I ready to do the work? That's— that sounds like a big—

Josh: it's a big silence. Yeah. Uh, I think that that's like the big the big thing that I'm trying to overcome is it's like, uh, am I ready to do the work? Um, it feels like— it's interesting because, say, this like breaking down and rebuilding, breaking down and rebuilding, it feels like, uh, I've been— I've done the work a bunch of times and I'm not necessarily where I want to be. And so, work becomes harder, like doing the work or doing the thing that you think that you need to do. I've had moments where I've been like, it— what— like, it's fucked up, but I don't think that work hasn't always equated to the success or happiness. It's just that's the whole busy thing. So, uh, I'm willing to do, and I, I am— what's the question?

Tommy: Are you ready to do this?

Josh: I'm ready to do the personal work that I need to do that I think is different to the work that others think that I might need to do, or the work— like, I'm— I think that at this time right now is this internal thinking around what is the work that I need to do on myself, on all of that type of thing. Um, does that make sense?

Tommy: Yeah, it's good. I think it— the, the question can be asked to anything you're doing, whether it's changing your body, business, relationships. Because if you think about it, it's like, uh, if you've got a bad relationship with an individual that you want to have a better one with, are you ready to ask, or are you ready to be open with them and tell them something that you hate or something that you've done?

Josh: I think there's also—

Tommy: it's fucking hard. And so then it's like, not everyone is up for doing the work.

Josh: Yeah, but I also think there's a lot of people who say they're willing to do the work, um, but they haven't, and they, they, they don't. And so where's the disconnect? There's got to be a disconnect in regards to Um, yeah, I think that it's, uh, maybe the plan, the values, all of that sort of stuff really needs to be dialled in to then— because I feel like you never work out, or I don't work out, the, the cadence or the, the work that needs to be— I'm still figuring out what, what I'm here to do, what work I need to do. And because I guess I'm constantly asking, is this the right work that I'm doing? Is this the best use of what I can do? Am I, um, am I optimising my, you know, like learning? I don't know. I think like learning is a big one from a values perspective. I always am wanting to learn.

Tommy: And maybe when you're thinking about, so for me thinking about doing something that I've already done again, so you have context of what doing the work looks like, or like you're saying, having that plan. Something written out where it's future experiences that you're writing down. So, it's like what I will need to do. It's hard because this is the weird bit. Am I willing to do another 1,000 episodes of a podcast that with somebody else? Absolutely not. Yeah. I don't, I'm not up for doing that work. But was I up for doing the original stuff? I never necessarily said to myself, looked in the mirror and said, am I up for fucking doing, you know, X, you know, X amount of podcasts, whatever it be. No, I didn't, but I was up for navigating and, and, and doing something with my life.

Josh: Oh yeah, I think that, uh, there's been moments in my life where I've really got a hold of the steering wheel and it feels like I am, you know, definitely have that all dialled in. It definitely feels right now that life is happening to me. If that makes sense. And so it's hard to identify what the work is, um, because yeah, I think that it's much— where, where we're sitting right now, Abbotsford, Victoria.

Tommy: Welcome, you listening to the Daily Talk Show.

Josh: It's 19 degrees, um, top of 21 today. No, but I think it's, um, where we're sitting, uh, yeah, it's, it's a different, it's a different feeling. So you think about reality or whatever And so, you know, you've got a mate who's like really ambitious and doing stuff, but you're like, oh my God, they're a bit fucking off their chops in regards to what they're thinking they can do. And but it drives them like that, like future driving. Where I struggle, I struggle with if I think about, you know, like we're good with, you know, all our superannuation, like putting it in personally and all that sort of thing. But if I think too much about superannuation, I get like so dark on it because I'm like, okay, so this is 401 in the US or whatever. It's like, I'm going to work all of these years to then retire or to then have this money. Like, when I think about that, I get like a bit, a bit depressed. And so, doing the work is interesting when it feels like life is— when you're in a position It's almost like you, um, this isn't the best case scenario for us right now. Don't you agree? Like, if, if we could have had it, we would be doing the podcast and making a bunch of money through that and doing original stuff. So we're doing Plan B, and I think that that's like a hard reality.

Tommy: But also it's hard because, um, uh, but then what if there was only ever the plan? So, it's like plan A, plan B is distinguishing two, like, conceptualised thinking, which was plan A, conceptualised thinking, which is plan B. But then there's life and it is what it is. It is where you are. And so, the concept of A and B, if you removed and be like, that was only ever thinking. And so, we've only ever got places, you know, so you don't control where you're born. I didn't pick my mum and dad. I didn't pick to grow up in Brighton. And so, there's so many things that were never a part of anyone's plan other than just evolution and human factors.

Josh: I picked to be in Endeavour Hills.

Tommy: I know you did, but that was a weird one. You thought it sounded great. You should have gone to Iraq.

Josh: No, no, it didn't. Endeavour Hills is great.

Tommy: No, of course it is. But my point being is what you're saying between this is plan B, this is life. Plan A, Plan B. So, the way you're looking at it is like if there was— if you don't succeed Plan A, it falls into Plan B. But Plan B is life. Life is however it's playing out and wherever you are right now. And so, we don't want— that's the hard bit. What you're saying is there is an alternative reality, the one we have, that we would probably choose if we could, you know, click our fingers. But that's not even real.

Josh: But isn't there going upstream and going downstream? So, what I felt like we were doing for 2 years years or 3 years or whatever was going upstream. And I got so much energy through that, and I feel like I got stronger because it's like you are like, you understand that it's way, way, way harder, but it is, you know, that the development that you can build from that. But also at the top of the stream, or, you know, as you go, there's so many more sort of rewards. Now it feels like, uh, it's recognising that we need to switch to downstream. And the idea is that it's like, it's because we sort of reached a level where we're like, oh, you know what, like, maybe we die if we keep going upstream. And so it's like, okay, we need to go downstream for a bit. But the downstream thing, uh, doesn't have the resistance that upstream— so the resistance was the thing that I loved, which was like, oh yeah, you don't think we can do it? Yeah, we're gonna fucking do it. And it's like, put putting in the time, and it's like doing the work going upstream. I fucking loved doing the work going upstream because people like the— because it felt like it wasn't the status quo, it was doing something different. It feels like what we're doing now, there are thousands of versions, you know, and we— of production companies doing client work. I don't know, like, like, so think about—

Tommy: there can be If you're thinking of a river and you were to whack people in canoes or kayaks, very different experience being in a canoe versus a kayak. You know, one's very easy to flip, but the pros are in the kayaks going very hard and they get great at navigating down the river with the stream.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: And so, if—

Josh: So, what's the opposite?

Tommy: You can be a different— There's a— So, what I'm saying is The river's going one way. There's lots of people in the river is what you're referring to. But you can be really good at navigating the river downstream. You can go faster. You can pull up. You can navigate through, you know, specific obstacles, like. And so, there is, I mean, I think it's fine to be going down the river versus up the river. Because it's really hard for a bunch of time. Maybe you've built strength going up the river to then turn around and fucking coast and then train in a different way.

Josh: And so I think that part of it though is, uh, the downstream— you're living in a temporary state. I don't have any intention of doing what we're doing now for the rest of my life. Like, I, I don't. I could do what we're doing now, original stuff. That is the, the vision of what I want to do for the rest of my life. And so it feels disingenuous in some regards, or you're just trying to get enough energy again. So, you like, the idea is, I guess, if the fuel is, you know, money and, you know, a successful business, and also like, that's the way of— So, when you go upstream, you're focusing so much on your own well-being and surviving that you can't bring, you can't get other people to come up with you on the upstream, right? The only way to get people is is, uh, by going on the downstream because it's an easier— so everyone recognizes, understands, it's, you know, there's revenue in the downstream, so it's like, it's easy to bring people in and all that sort of thing. But the idea is that you're sort of in the, the downstream working out a plan to go back up. Um, does that make sense?

Tommy: Yeah, we, we— but you can spend time in both places, and so that's the focus.

Josh: Then that comes down to focus. So you can't actually go upstream and downstream simultaneously. You have to pick one. And so, and that's what we were experiencing, is it's like we were trying to get the fruits of the downstream whilst putting all of our focus in the upstream.

Tommy: Yeah, but like the resistance from going upstream builds the strength to go then downstream. So then I think it's like a training, it's a training ground. You can't, like, you'd fall apart just feeling like, you know, so much resistance constantly and the energy that that can bring.

Josh: Uh-huh.

Tommy: Um, so number, uh, 15. We'll keep it quick. Let's go hard through these last 5.

Josh: And this is for you. What is my body telling me?

Tommy: I need to take a piss.

Josh: Yeah, I've drank way too much water, 2 ounces.

Tommy: And, um, but what is your body— what is my body telling me if I, if, if I've, um I've got a sore shoulder, it's like I'm tied up, up in the shoulder joint, it's from an old injury. What's my body telling me? Um, I need, um, I've got a headache, could be that I'm, um, dehydrated.

Josh: Definitely not if you're—

Tommy: Great question. Great question.

Josh: Yes.

Tommy: Number 16: Why do I say yes when I should say no?

Josh: Uh, because you don't, uh, because I don't want to disappoint people. Yeah, I think that that's like the main thing. And it's— but it's also like, um, am I just looking at the wrong reality? If I look at this, if I look at the business stuff, there's— if you think about where I am now, you'd say, oh, Josh should just say no, just give it up. But I'm not doing that. And so what is it? There's obviously enough that I see that enough benefit in trying this other thing because I have, and this is, I guess, the dip and all that sort of thing. It's like, okay, it's, um, rather than, uh, yeah, rather than saying no, uh, no is always an option, but I think like you owe it to everything and everyone to say yes sometimes.

Tommy: Yep. Number 17.

Josh: Okay, uh, what do I need to stop doing? Oh, you glad you got that one?

Tommy: Because yeah, it's a great question. Um, I, I, I don't know if I have an answer right now. Um, what do I need to stop doing? I need to stop— um, what do I need to stop doing? Stop, uh, fuck. Um, stop heated arguments with Amy around Bodhi. They don't happen much, they don't happen a lot, but you see the effect.

Josh: And what's the effect?

Tommy: Oh, Bodhi can— like, if Amy and I were having an argument in the car or something, you can see, like, like, you can see it physically shift Bodhi's state.

Josh: What does he do?

Tommy: Stop it! Oh, he might just say something like that, or you see how it really affects people. And so that's, that's just something we have. We don't have a lot of them, but I really have thought that What I need to stop doing. Um, question 18: What happens when I lose motivation?

Josh: I think I go introspective. I go internal. I think I do a lot of thinking.

Tommy: Do you think it brings motivation back? Do you think it gives you—

Josh: I think, I think losing motivation, um, losing motivation is a sign.

Tommy: What sign?

Josh: It can be a sign that you actually are going through nothing. Motivation doesn't last for— like, motivation is fleeting. Motivation is not the reason why Harps goes to the gym, you know. And by that point, it's not motivation, it's something else. And so, uh, what happens when I lose motivation? Sometimes I just show up like nothing, nothing changes. Uh, but other times, other areas of my life where I haven't built the habit, they just stop. I think that that's the, um, but I— and if definitely I go into the why, what I want to do. I think the other thing too is I switch my focus. If I'm not motivated on something, I'll switch my focus to something else.

Tommy: Yeah. Um, number 19 for me: What will my life look like in 1 year? I'll be a father of 2 children, beautiful little girl, uh, and Bodhi, beautiful little man. And I will probably be living in a similar I will be living in the same house, our business will be thriving, hopefully we have more people, there's, we're feeling like we are giving it a crack and we're showing up. And so for us the next year, I think it is very much of what we're doing and just getting quite good at what we're doing, navigating all the, the, the first times, like what we have the start of this year. There's a lot of firsts. You can have a business, but there comes a point where you have to make someone redundant. That's a first.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: And that's a fucked feeling.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: And we're gonna be still doing the podcast, um, but in terms of what I, what I hope is, you know, there's some, there's some comfort in the consistency of doing a similar thing and building that and growing that, which it seems it's uncomfortable, but the comfort sort of comes on the other side, or fulfillment, or, you know, just like, um, yeah, just practicing. I mean, a lot can go— a lot can happen in a year, and it can feel like a lot doesn't happen in a year, but then it's like the perspective. I had a moment where I was thinking about driving up to Sydney, um, years ago when I had my own business and I was editing in the front seat while Amy was driving. I was like, fuck, that's a lot different now. A lot different now. But the perspective back then, like, it's— I wouldn't want to do that again necessarily, but I've come so far from then. And so in a year's time, as much as you can feel in the moment that it doesn't— you haven't come far, if you can just think back, you know, a lot can change. Even if you don't think much has changed in your life, there probably is something that's changed. Just gotta find it and it can help you get a bit of perspective. Question 20: What's the meaning of life? Sucked in, son.

Josh: I don't know. I think that the life— the meaning of life is to figure it out.

Tommy: That's a good one. The meaning of life is to, to give it a crack.

Josh: What does Harp say?

Tommy: Yeah, that's what I was thinking. See, oh, it's money, Lamborghinis.

Josh: No, no. Do you want me to read it? He said, again, I'm either brave or stupid for even thinking about tackling this question. But nonetheless, there it is in the title. And here I am. And even as I write this sentence, not knowing exactly what's about to come out of my head, I should really plan more. I'm leaning towards stupid.

Tommy: Oh, well, having said that, it's a question that fascinates me, always has. It's something I've been asked about many times over the years. It's definitely a question that is being examined, explored, and debated. I'm just jumping here. No single answer. And for me, there's a hint as to why we have not— no consensus. And it lies in the singular noun in the middle of the question: what is the meaning of life? The, the ideology suggests that there is only one meaning of life for, for all of us. We somehow need to figure it out, understand it, agree with it. And then comply. Well, I call that rubbish.

Josh: Craig doesn't know either.

Tommy: But no, he's— What's the meaning of your life? Is probably the question.

Josh: The meaning of life.

Tommy: I remember having this conversation with this bloke named Basil. He's the first Basil I'd ever met. No, another Basil now. But Basil was on my Year 9 camp. He was like a teacher. It was where we went away for a whole term, 8 weeks, lived in our own houses. It. He was this hippie-ish guy, artist. And I remember him sort of talking to us about the meaning of life, and I felt like this guy knew it. What I realised now is he was full of shit.

Josh: Basil was high.

Tommy: I think he was. Basil was a lovely dude, and he was talking to us about his meaning of life. Yeah, that's 100%. Like, because it's very different there, like It has to be for you. What's the meaning of your life? I love that.

Josh: Great. hi@thedailytalkshow.com if you want to send us an email. Uh, hit the like button if you are watching on YouTube. You've been listening to The Daily Talk Show. Have a good one, guys.

Tommy: See you guys.