Start By Copying People

Tommy: Wait a minute!

Matt: Frostface! The Daily Talk Show, a conversation sometimes worth recording with Josh Janson and Tommy Jackett.

Josh: It's a Daily Talk Show episode 248, final day in Sydney. Yeah, for me anyway.

Tommy: Well, I'm up here, uh, I got the family stuff happening. Yeah, so I'll be back before the new year, before our 250th episode, which is New Year's Eve, which is pretty cool.

Josh: It is.

Tommy: Yeah. Yeah.

Josh: The 31st day of Ella. Still Matt DiBella.

Matt: Still here. Still here. I haven't left. I'm still here.

Tommy: We don't come to Australia, mate. You live in LA. So it's nice that we can at least get you on. You're not out. If anyone is wondering, Matt's not now just a part of our show.

Matt: Oh, maybe I am. Tick tick in the house. You guys have been calling me tick tick for the past 3 days.

Josh: A lot of tick tick chat.

Matt: Yeah. A lot of tick tick jokes.

Tommy: Go back to Monday's episode.

Matt: Yeah. I got to say, though, I'm so impressed with you guys, how you literally hit record and you're like, this is going to be the episode, and there's going to be no editing, and we're just going to post it up incomplete. Because I feel like I'm such a— I don't know. I'm like this. I'm just not very good with speaking. And oftentimes, I have to edit myself to make myself sound smarter than I actually am.

Tommy: Does it give you anxiety coming on a show like this?

Matt: The first time it did, the first episode. But now I've gotten warmed up.

Tommy: Which, the Tik Tik one?

Matt: Or the one before that? No, the one before that.

Josh: I think I actually had more anxiety on your form format because of the, the structured— did you notice a difference between us in your format? Like, do you think that, uh, your style brings— like, it's, it's a certain, uh, like, you've got to arrive back. Well, you gotta, you gotta arrive, you gotta arrive when you're coming on your podcast. It's almost like how I see people when they go on Joe Rogan, is it's like there's an intensity to it. Because people— do you get that? Because now that when people go on your show, they're going to have at least 30,000 people watch the video.

Matt: I don't know if I sense the pressure from people. I think people will naturally— and I didn't sense it really from you guys. I think like naturally—

Josh: I was wearing makeup, by the way.

Tommy: And I didn't know this until—

Matt: Were you legit wearing makeup?

Josh: Yeah.

Matt: I do that sometimes too, because I get these massive pimples. And I'm like, I don't want this to be there forever. So why can't men wear makeup?

Josh: Absolutely.

Matt: They can.

Josh: Bit of BB cream.

Tommy: I used to wear makeup when I was young and had bad acne.

Josh: This was completely set up. We've never worn makeup before. We wanted to see you guys' tummy! And we did— we got them making it out.

Matt: You got exposed!

Josh: Makeup butt guy. I didn't give a fuck.

Tommy: I've had my chest waxed.

Matt: Why? What mutation? You guys are destroying it. Double down. But what I want to say is like, I don't know, like it had nothing to do with the audience sizes but like I felt much more comfortable recording the podcast that they were with you guys than I was on my own show The Ground Up Show. Maybe one is because it's more loose and maybe more so the host has more of an obligation to keep things going than the guest. But also, just the fact that it wasn't filmed, we were just sitting on my couch, it just felt so much more casual and conversational. And I think that's the biggest benefit of podcasting is because it's so easy. It's like you don't have to do the video and shoot everything.

Tommy: Who do you listen to?

Matt: Other than our show? Yeah, the usual suspects. I mean, I don't listen to many anymore. I don't make that much time for it. But like in the past and every once in a while, I listen to Joe Rogan, Tim Ferriss. My friend Jason and Caroline Zook have a good podcast called Aiming Wonderfully, which is interesting.

Josh: Yeah, I love their YouTube channel.

Matt: Yeah, they have great YouTube videos and I know they're starting to double down on their videos. They've done a great job, but Yeah. Do you guys listen to many podcasts?

Josh: Yeah. I mean, I'm subscribed to a lot, so, but I sort of dip in and out just to try and see like what people are talking about, what they're into.

Tommy: I'm surprised at how many you actually do listen to, Josh. Yeah, I think it's so impressive.

Josh: I try and—

Tommy: there's a wide range.

Josh: I go through stages of like deep dive consuming heaps of people's stuff. So I'm like Josh Peck from Drake and Josh. I'll go through and, uh, discovered he's got a podcast and I'll go through and listen to 3 or 4 and get a good sense of what he's doing.

Tommy: You look at the monopoly that Rogan has, it's like, as much as I like him, I also like the people that are coming on his show and he has epic guests. So it's like you then get in this trap of like, he's got ya, he's got you at the top.

Josh: What's the Oprah effect? I think that like, I worry that, um, what, you get a car? Exactly. No, I just worry that it's a bit, um, Rogan ain't giving away shit, let's be honest. You just evoked a little bit of fluff. Thank you for doing that. Fluffs on the mic. Uh, no, I, I think that you can start to— everyone can start to think the same way. I feel like Joe Rogan— like, the conversations I have with people who listen to Joe Rogan all seem to sort of go the same way. I don't know why.

Tommy: Which is what?

Josh: Well, I just think that it's like, um, uh it maybe fills this intellectual void that people have, so they end up leaning on it a lot. And it's sort of, how can— whatever the podcast is that Joe Rogan's done that week, it turns out that that's the solution to this problem. So all of a sudden it's like, oh yeah, that sounds like— I'm not feeling good, oh well, that's gut health. But then if you catch them on another week, it's like whatever that specific person that week was talking about.

Matt: Yeah, and I think I, I fall victim to that as well, where like you watch a documentary on food and you are now a food expert and now you can advise anybody on what their diet should be. And I think it comes like with not wanting to appear like a dick or a know-it-all and just to be like, I think it starts interesting conversations with people, but not assuming that that conversation Joe Rogan had is going to solve diabetes. What, what's the default style of podcast that you listen —Well, I, you know, the one that I remember, like, that really got me interested in podcasting and wanting to do a podcast was actually Freakonomics, which is more scripted, structured, well-produced, really well-produced. And that's actually originally what I wanted to do was actually do— so much work. Yeah, exactly. And I didn't, you know, I was like, wow, it's like half the work of video. It's actually gonna be a lot easier. But then I'm like, why would I go and interview people and cut these storeys together without filming them? Because filming is what I do. That just seems like a missed opportunity. So then I started, I said, ah, you know what actually would be better would just be to actually have conversations with creatives because it doesn't take as much creativity and it actually is, it's great way to just network and meet with new people. I think the one problem people run into is that they try to be the next Joe Rogan, GaryVee, Casey Neistat, and they just replicate what they're doing.

Tommy: I think there's a lot of people doing that with your stuff at the moment.

Matt: You think? Have you seen it?

Tommy: Yeah, I've seen it. I'm not saying it in a negative way for them. I think it's a compliment to you and for them it's somewhere to start. And so whether it be the kind of grade that you put on your videos or the layout of your channel, it's like, I think it is— if there is no manual out there that will work, so it's trying something. And I know I definitely have probably copied people's styles in the past to then try and just work out what it is. And I don't know if I've even found my style. It's just like I'm trying to be more me and do what comes to mind natural, like naturally. So what, what is just the extension of what I think and what I want to do. And so is there, for you, do you see what you're doing as a style?

Matt: It's this really interesting, this kid, this YouTuber, I forget his name, but he just recently did a breakdown of my videos, which is like wild. It's just that to me is still crazy to think that somebody's like, this is how Matt D'Avella makes videos. And I'm like, he knows my name. The parody one? I know it's not the parody. Sterling Grenell did a parody and I actually ended up having him on the podcast because it was like he basically made this whole video and he uses hashtag #GetSterlingOnMattsPodcast. And it was all about— he did a parody of me just saying like it got It was like it made me sound a little bit pretentious and like the fact that everything needs to be perfect because I'm Matt D'Avella and my coffee needs to be made in this way and shot this way because I'm Matt D'Avella.

Josh: Were you like laughing but also like, fuck you?

Matt: Yeah, I was actually on the toilet when I watched it for the first time. And I was honestly like, when I first started watching it, I thought it was one of my videos. I was like, oh, this kid just stole my video and put it on his Instagram. And I'm like, wait a minute, that's not my apartment. I'm like, wait a minute, this guy is talking about me? That was really awesome. That was really one of the first times somebody had done something like that. And it happened with, um, well, this kid just did like a breakdown, and I actually, crazy enough, like, you know, this kid's got a nice subscriber base, 50,000 subscribers. He's really talented. Like, he seems like he's a really young kid but just doing great work. And I watched one of his videos just randomly about 2 months ago, yeah, of him breaking down somebody else's filmmaking style. And I actually pulled out one of the techniques that he taught and put it into one of my videos.

Josh: What was the technique?

Matt: Uh, it was the— I want to call it like the Vertigo type effect where you're actually like scaling up the video as you're pushing in and it creates this kind of weird— it's the Jaws effect when you're coming in. And I actually didn't know— looking bigger, but the— yeah, yeah. And I actually didn't—

Josh: whoa, it's really warping. There's, uh, we're just on the Sydney Harbour and they've got the thunder, um, the jet boats.

Matt: Yeah, I thought it just capsized, to be honest.

Josh: Yeah, 40 tourists, you can't go there, you can't You can't go on it if you got like back injuries or pregnant, because it's like—

Matt: no, it looks legit. Like, they just whipped them like crazy. But, um, this kid did a breakdown, and then, yeah, so I got that vertigo effect. I was like, that's really cool. I was like, I didn't even think of doing that. I actually didn't know that you could do that in post-production and recreate what would be like a, like an actual manual push in with a zoom. Yeah. Uh, and I just did it a couple times in the video, and then He did a thing, a breakdown of my videos, and I just commented. I was like, dude, that's so cool. I was just watching.

Tommy: Did he get it right? Did he get some of the techniques you used?

Matt: The most interesting thing that he said, I think that some people look too far into colour grade and the tones and the stuff, and it's like, I'm just trying to make it look dope. I'm not like, there's no science to it. I downloaded. I just copied and pasted, and then I use the same LUT on everything because I think it just looks good.

Tommy: I think that, you know, Josh and I break down a lot of what people are doing and just more conversation between us and what people are saying to it.

Josh: Yeah, we read into shit a lot.

Tommy: But I think it's a bit of fun a lot of the time, and you can totally read into what someone's doing, and they're probably like, that's like, it's intuitive. You could go, this is someone's social media strategy, but it's actually just their intuitive approach to social media. And it's like, well, I just feel like I gotta post this time. And then you say, no, they actually, uh, if you look deeper than that, it's— you could find something.

Matt: Yeah, what he found was really interesting. He's like, it's a mix between a documentary, a Vox video, a YouTube video, a vlog, and I— maybe there was like one or two other things. I was like, that's really interesting because that's like— and it is kind of like that because I do incorporate some vlogging elements to it every once in a while. It's kind of like a natural on-the-fly type piece of like— it's almost like vérité, which is like a fancy way of saying like in the moment, like just capturing a fly on the wall type deal. And then obviously, filming a fly on the wall. Yeah, yeah, no, that would be kind of a fly on the wall though. Yeah, verité. But so I was like, that's interesting, just like that. I guess mine is a mesh of these styles, primarily documentary driven, because that's where I got my start.

Tommy: But, and so what do you think when it comes to young people starting something and they're like, oh, actually, the barrier is they're not going to do it because they think they're copying somebody. Copy somebody.

Matt: Yeah, I think you should copy people. Yeah, copy me. I don't care. I copy people when I first started out with visual style or watching a film and getting inspired by it and wanting to create your own. But then don't be so tied to that and don't like expect to become successful because you're copying somebody. But I think that you will learn in the process of doing that, you'll learn how to get better as a creative. What's one skill that you don't have that you wish you did? Oh, that's like a good job interview question. Well, this is— oh, I would say, can I— this is a job interview to become the co-host?

Josh: Yeah, for me, I wish I was better at design and motion graphics.

Matt: Yeah, I think that's always one of those things that's like—

Josh: but such a— it's a bit of a— it feels like one of those things where you could then just become the button pusher, tinkery. Like, it feels like one of those jobs where it's like there's also like a bunch of really creative people in Eastern Europe who are doing it for super cheap. So it'd be hard to like—

Matt: I get very jealous of like great animation in videos just because I know I don't have the time or money to put into adding those into my videos. And I wish I could, but it's just like, it's just not that practical. And also just the nature of having the messiness of filmmaking and having not really knowing what your final product's going to be until you really get it cut and like have a first V1. It's tough when you're trying to put out a video a week and then to bring an animator in with the last 2 days to make an animation for it. It just seems like it's not worth the effort. But that, that's big. I think like being the, the Gary Vee type personality, which like in a way I envy how off the cuff he can be and how he can create an interesting piece of content by simply talking. And I don't think I'm that person. I think that I have to actually put a lot of thought into my videos. Which makes me different, but at the same time, life would be a lot easier.

Josh: Do you think that that's like a self-talk that might not actually be true? Like, because throughout this whole week you've been on this podcast and you've been able to spitball. Is it that you don't necessarily like the style, or do you think that it's— do you think it's something that as you produce more and more, you'll get more comfortable with doing it off the cuff, or Or do you see the benefit in this?

Matt: Maybe you're right. Maybe it's like the fact that like, I think people come to see my videos because it's more thoughtful and edited. And I think that like, that's what makes me different. So in a way, I truly don't think I'm as good off the cuff as some of these other people. And maybe that's a bit of my perfectionist tendency as well. But I think all of that drives me to want to tell storeys in the way that I do. So even though it's something that I wish I was better at because honestly, like, sometimes I have to do a lot of takes to get like a, just a quick soundbite for one of my videos.

Josh: Does the C200, does it, what are you shooting? What settings are you shooting at?

Matt: Are you shooting raw? 4K log. Not raw. No, no. I mean, I actually had a RED and I decided to sell it. It was originally for freelance work and then I started using it for YouTube videos and it slows you the fuck down. So I eventually got the C200, and that's a lot quicker, even in 4K, super quick to edit.

Josh: What's the— what sort of data are you chewing through?

Matt: It's not— it's not that crazy. I mean, I don't know, what do I have, like, compared to the RED? Compared to the RED, it's like, dude, I could shoot all day on it. Yeah, but I don't know, my projects might be 100 to 200 gigabytes in terms of file size, which isn't that bad. I mean, like, if I was shooting on a RED, it would be 500 to a terabyte. 500 to a terabyte, which is nuts.

Josh: The doco stuff, the doing a feature length versus shorter type of things, do you think that you have on the cards to produce a feature like you did with Minimalism?

Matt: I think that I would like to do another feature. Once you finish a feature, the first thing you think is, I'm never going to do that again because it was so hard, it was so challenging. And it was oftentimes stressful, but then the fact that I happened to do well in the first one and actually helped a lot of people made it worth it. And I think it would be interesting to take my style of YouTube doc-type videos now and expand it and say, hey, let's just take a topic in my own voice. It's something that I haven't done in a long format that I think would be interesting to explore. So I mean, I would like to eventually do that, and then potentially there could be a nice crossover with like even doing a YouTube Red version, which— So holla at your boy, YouTube. Holla at your boy. YouTube just gave me my 100,000 plaque.

Tommy: Ah, you gonna cut it in half like all those other people?

Matt: No, I think I'm gonna give it away. Who the fuck wants it? I know, these creeps that follow me. I think people would like that. Imagine like getting Casey Neistat's 100K. Man, I think it's great. No, you're not Casey Neistat.

Josh: When I was a kid, I wasn't athletic at all. So I used to have my brother's and my dad's trophies up in my room. I used to collect trophies. I had so many. And Goosebumps books that I never read because I didn't know how to really read.

Tommy: So I had like fucking— Fake it till you, uh, I'm not sure what you're saying.

Matt: Fake it till you learn how to read. You don't think that's good though?

Tommy: I think people would want that. No, I think it's cool.

Matt: I think some young aspiring YouTuber, which I think It would be weird. Yeah, I guess it— for me, I wouldn't want somebody's plaque, but I'm a minimalist. Yeah, yeah, I don't want any shit.

Tommy: I couldn't imagine someone else's plaque in your house.

Matt: Yeah, it'd be weird. It's like, oh my God, you got 100,000 on YouTube? No, that's Matt's.

Josh: That's 100% how I'd feel. It's like the equivalent of saying, hey, this next film I'm giving away a director credit.

Matt: Or you're taking somebody's Emmy. You want an Emmy? No, that's Matt's. I mean, I think it's kind of funny though. How do you get it?

Tommy: What happened? What's the deal?

Matt: They didn't give it to me for a while because like now I'm at 700, but like they just— they meant to after like, you know, a little while, a couple months after you get past 100,000 subscribers, they send you this silver play button. And then when you get to a million, which—

Tommy: that should be next year.

Matt: Yeah, I mean, it would be planned. Yeah, but why not even to play? This has not been the plan. Yeah, I didn't need this many.

Josh: What's your relationship like with YouTube? Have you got access to YouTube Space?

Matt: No, no, I've never talked to anybody at YouTube. I, you know what, it's weird because I don't monetize my videos, so I'm not a YouTube partner. It's kind of weird, isn't it? Yeah.

Tommy: So they have your address and they just—

Matt: they do now because I just— because I, they had to fill out this form in order to get it. I had to go through— I went through Twitter help with YouTube. Yeah. And then they sent me the info and then they sent me the plaque out.

Josh: You had to reach out to them.

Tommy: This is like— so this is like when— I'm not sure. No, it's probably not in America, but in Australia and probably the UK, when you—

Josh: Australia versus US gear always does really well.

Tommy: When you turn 100, I used to think, okay, you get a letter from the Queen. Yeah. And so the part of the Commonwealth— my grandpa turned 100, no letter. No letter. Had to go through Twitter help to get it. No, but we had to submit this thing and we ended up getting the letter from the Queen.

Matt: Really? Yeah. That's really neat.

Tommy: So you— but it's as much hard work as fucking YouTube make it.

Matt: Your dad should give it away, or your grandpa should give it away on YouTube.

Josh: Ah, okay. Super insensitive.

Matt: Yeah. But I'll take your card. Super inappropriate.

Tommy: Saying sorry for that. Who are your favourite YouTubers?

Matt: Favorite YouTubers, that's a good question. I do watch Colin and Samir. It's funny, 'cause it's people that I know, people that I'm friends with. When they come out with a new video, I watch it because I'm like, oh, I'm curious to see what they're up to, what they created. I like Mango Street. I think they're really awesome people and they make— do you know them? Yeah. Yeah, they make— I love just their style though too, because they show that you can be introverted and be great YouTubers and tell great stories.

Josh: Introverted nowadays is just super hipster.

Matt: Yeah, they are. Yeah, they're like cool introverted. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. So I definitely watched like their videos and I watch vloggers.

Josh: What's your take on vlogging being in the YouTube space?

Matt: I don't know. I mean, I like partly envy the people that are really good at vlogging and can just grab a camera and run around and talk and shit. Because like, dude, I tried to shoot this thing in Sydney because I did staying healthy while travelling video. I tried to shoot the outro walking through the airport in Sydney, and I just had like severe panic attack. I was like, I guess I'm never going to release that footage because it's so embarrassing. Please. So the thanks for watching, and I think there's people passing me and I'm like, everybody knows, everybody knows I'm a fucking piece of shit. And it was like really like, it was, it was hard for me to do and I didn't end up using it in the video. I just ended up shooting B-roll and then voiceover, voicing it at the end because I'm just not good at that and I don't have enough confidence. Yeah.

Josh: Do you show anyone your videos before you put them online?

Matt: No, not even that. No, I just don't have the time. I don't have enough time for an approval process, which I think helps me like Yeah, move quickly.

Josh: Do you— what, like, I feel like I can't watch my stuff too many— like, if I watch it too many times, especially when it comes to the export, I feel like I've watched it so many times that I'll sometimes not watch it. And I've— I remember I did that once years ago and then like uploaded something. I had like a render— unrendered bullshit. So I don't do it. Like, I make sure I do one more pass when it's on YouTube. Do you do that? Do you make it?

Matt: Yeah, I do one more pass, and it's usually either on my phone or on my laptop. That way I can also hear it from that perspective of like a lower-grade mic. Yeah, or speaker. And that helps. But it is, yeah, like the thing that I know is that if I show it to somebody to review, I know that Nat may not quite get it and she may not quite understand. Like, that part wasn't funny. I'm like, I'm not gonna re-edit this whole fucking video because you don't think that part was funny. I'm gonna, I'm just gonna deal with my mistake and just post it. Is that the way you learn? Well, I remember actually, I think I learned that lesson early on with my parents and showing them videos that I made, like parody rap videos, and like they were shitty and they were bad, but at the same time they were pretty decent for my age and my skill level.

Josh: Yeah, well, they're not even— and your parents aren't your audience.

Matt: They aren't the audience, and then they would watch them like, ah, yeah, no, like they would not even like say good job, or like maybe they'd say good job, but it was like I could tell, I was like, you guys didn't like this. And then I just felt deflated after creating this thing and being so proud of it that I'm like, the lesson was, who gives a shit what, uh, people think about it? Just upload it and then make the next thing.

Josh: So many times, like, I'll show something to someone and they'll give advice that's not really relevant to what I'm wanting, like, feedback-wise. Like, they'll say, like, to your point with Nat saying, oh, that joke's not funny, where you can pretty easily excuse that because you're like, oh, I'm not asking about it. Like, that's not what I'm taking, uh, sort of criticism on. Yeah. What is— what are you— what are you actually normally looking for when you're looking at criticism? Is it like volume, music volume?

Matt: Like, can you hear it properly? That's, that's, I think, maybe one, but I think that I kind of get over because, like, you can get away with a lot on YouTube. People put up stuff and I'm like, what? Why would you— that audio is like, you have to consistently turn the volume up and down to be able to listen to it. I think it's like Is my point coming across? Do you understand my perspective? Have I given you enough context about this subject before I dive into it? And like, I think it's like, does it make sense? Because I think I'm very much— I try to tell storeys and maybe make an argument or maybe like explain the full picture. And sometimes it's hard when you're in the middle of it to really know, oh, I should have told people that I've had this such-and-such experience, or to really lay the foundation for the story.

Tommy: Well, yeah, you can over-contextualize for the viewer.

Matt: Yeah, and then you can overdo it, over-explain. And it's like, and I think that's actually one of the important things about editing, is just edit down. And like, maybe it's a 12-minute video at first, but I'm like, I could probably cut out a lot. Like, I feel like people don't do that enough, where their videos are too slow. It's like, you could really like pick up your storytelling because you're, you have extra shit in here you don't need.

Josh: What about people who just edit super quick? Because I feel like there's the two extremes. There's the editing really slow and then thinking that pace is about just cut, cut, cut, cut, cut, cut, cut. What's like, how do you actually find the middle ground? How do you— do you have rules around when to cut from a shot, when to hold on to you? When do you show your face versus showing B-roll?

Matt: That is interesting because that is like something that I think about. Well, it has less to do with like rapid cuts, like the pace of the storytelling has nothing to do with like quick music and quick cuts and going bop bop bop and keep going. It's more so like, is the storey carrying you along? Is the music like interesting? Have I used too much music at this point? Am I able to— Where do you find your music? From Epidemic Sound. That's where I have a subscription to them. That's where I get most of it. They actually just emailed me recently and were like, hey Matt, we just saw a video you made. We really liked it. So we just gave all your money back. Yeah, I was like, thanks guys, that's really cool of you. I'm still not gonna be a— what are they—

Josh: they wanted me to be a partner. Yeah. What's it— what's this cost like? Do you know?

Matt: It's like $50 a month or something? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think I was— maybe like $20. It wasn't crazy, but it was like for unlimited music. Yeah, it's a no-brainer. But the storytelling is— yeah, well, you know what I think is the most important is like the first 15 to 30 seconds. Is I need to make it really interesting and I need to let people know exactly what this is gonna be about and I need to hook people in. So I usually put a disproportionate amount of time on that or it could just be like the, like, uh, slowing down video where it's just like, this video is gonna be about what the past 2 years have taught me about slowing the fuck down. And then boom, intro with a bit of music and then always trying to think about like, how can I make this funny? How can I make it entertaining? How can I make sure that it's not too dry?

Josh: Are you cutting ums and ahs always?

Matt: Yeah. In my actual YouTube videos, ums and ahs would likely not be in there just because a lot of it's voiceover driven. Do you ever add breath?

Josh: Like I find sometimes, like you wouldn't script in an um and ah.

Tommy: Yeah.

Matt: Yeah. Right. Well, that's actually funny because sometimes there is like a fake authenticity or fake voiceover and it's like, So, I was going to the store. As if this wasn't written down on paper. So, I try not to do that shit where I'm like, I'm reading something. I'm not pretending like I'm not reading this.

Josh: If you had to put one video up online as the video that people watch of yours first, which one would it be?

Matt: I'll say that the video that I'm proudest of last year was What was it called? It's like, I Lied to You, which was my proposal video. I guess my, yeah, my proposal video. And it's a little bit corny, but that's the only video people have ever said that they cried when watching, which is nice. And I cried while I watched it, while I edited it, if that doesn't sound too like egoic. But it was, I was very emotional like listening to the music and like just writing kind of my love storey to Natalie, and I've never really opened myself up in that way on my channel. And, uh, it was also just funny and sweet, and like getting Natalie's reaction to the surprise trip that I planned for her, being able to capture that and then also capture our trip to Costa Rica was really cool. And I think it's like the video I'm most proud of.

Josh: What's your vibe on weddings?

Tommy: Bitch!

Josh: The Tick Dick is really getting emotional. The wedding, what's your vibe? Are you going to do it fucking big? You're going to have two weddings, one in the States, one in Australia.

Matt: 8 camera filmmakers to follow the whole process. No, we're going to actually do one in Italy. Oh, cool. In 2020. 2025. 2025.

Tommy: Weddings are expensive. That's only a year and a bit away.

Matt: Yeah, it's coming quick, but Yeah, we'll see. It's going to be good. I mean, we couldn't pick Australia. We couldn't pick New Jersey. We can't make one person happy. We can't make just one side happy.

Tommy: Yeah. Take it. Take it.

Matt: And nobody's going to go to Australia. Like my family. My dad hasn't been on a plane ever, actually. Really? I don't know if he's— maybe once. Once to Colorado. Mr. D'Avila, dust off that passport. Yeah. He actually didn't have a passport.

Josh: He got it for our wedding. That's amazing.

Matt: So that's nice.

Josh: Man, enjoy the rest of your time in Sydney.

Tommy: Yeah, thanks for co-hosting for the week.

Josh: Yeah, thank you for having me. Tomorrow, Friday, it's TJ and I. TJ will be in Sydney, I'll be in Melbourne. And then on Monday, it's New Year's Eve. Is it? And I'll be finishing the Seth Godin book. Oh, good.

Tommy: And so that's our last episode for the year.

Josh: Geez, oh, wow. Today's talk show, everyone. Have a good one.

Tommy: See you guys.

Matt: See ya.