A TickDick Christmas At Bondi

Josh: Wait a minute! Frostface!

Matt: The Daily Talk Show, a conversation sometimes worth recording with Josh Jansen and Tommy Jansen.

Tommy: It's The Daily Talk Show episode 246.

Josh: Merry Christmas!

Tommy: Merry Christmas with Matt D'Avella, the guy who wouldn't get any presents.

Matt: I got nothing this year for Christmas. I asked for everything.

Josh: Is this true?

Matt: No, I didn't ask for anything. We actually— no. So Nat and I decided to do no Christmas presents this year. Nat is my partner and it's good. It's honestly, I want to say. So what we did was we decided to take the money that we would spend on each other and give it to a family in need. But it wasn't totally selfless. I would say it was 90% laziness. And 10% compassion.

Josh: What was it?

Matt: It felt pretty good.

Tommy: And 20% tax deduction.

Josh: How much did you assign?

Matt: $12 each. No, I think it was like $2.50 each. So it was actually probably a little bit more than we would have spent on each other. But it was all Natalie's idea.

Tommy: That's nice.

Matt: Yeah, I know.

Josh: It takes the pressure off.

Matt: I felt good, honestly. I honestly don't do nice things like that that often. And I was like, I should. I don't know if you guys are like that, where you're like, I should—

Tommy: I want to do more of that. I want to buy more goats.

Josh: Yes, I got a goat given to me for my birthday and I was so happy about it. It's not a real goat. It's a piece— it's a card that has a picture of a goat.

Tommy: But there's a real goat attached to it.

Josh: There is a real goat involved and the goat gets given to a family in a village in a third world country. So yeah, they probably just milk it and they kill it and eat it. So yeah, I mean, it's a good laugh.

Matt: It's good. I mean, for the people that are eating it.

Josh: Oh, 100%.

Matt: It does feel good. I want to do more stuff like that.

Tommy: Yeah. We're currently— where are we, Teach?

Josh: Yeah, we are on the cliff tops in Bondi Beach. So we're in Sydney, Australia. And you might hear like, this is pretty calm right now for Bondi Beach. Bondi Beach, it looks like just a great little beach to go for a swim, but it can be super dangerous. Helicopters are flying over. That's probably a— they're either looking for sharks, great white sharks, or, um, missing tourists out at sea, which is a legit thing that both of those things, yeah, are true. Yeah, both are true.

Matt: And I've actually seen Bondi Rescue.

Tommy: This is where— is it on Bondi Rescue?

Matt: No, it's not. That was like, uh, at Nat's parents' house. But it is— it's, it's breathtaking. Like, they actually legit, like, save people's lives, and it's usually like dumb tourists like myself that don't know how to handle water.

Josh: Or my mate who's on Bondi Rescue rescued Hugh Jackman.

Matt: Get out.

Josh: Really?

Tommy: Hugh Jackman couldn't swim?

Josh: Dude, this is the thing. If you're a good swimmer and you go out in a bad time in Bondi, it can fuck your shit up. Flashback a few years ago, and I keep getting reminded, I've already been reminded this year of it. Every so often I get a— I reckon once a year for the last 3 years, I've got a text message saying, "Bro, just saw you on Bondi Rescue." This is when I—

Matt: Wait, for real?

Josh: No, no, no. I wasn't getting rescued. I was featured because the Bondi Rescue guys one Christmas got legit reindeers. They're like, so they're little deer and they— Yeah.

Tommy: So legit reindeers.

Josh: Yeah. There's like, what's a reindeer? It's a deer.

Matt: They don't fly like reindeer. That would be crazy though.

Josh: I always question, are they called reindeers?

Tommy: Wait, so—

Josh: Yeah, they're deers. Anyway, they had deers on Bondi Beach and they were filming the show and bringing them around. And it's just got me holding one of the reindeers looking all—

Tommy: Were you getting paid for that?

Josh: No, I was just a punter walking past.

Tommy: You're literally just— Did you— because I feel like— have you heard of Border Security?

Matt: Border Security? Yeah, the show. We actually watched it last time we were here a couple of weeks ago.

Tommy: Yeah.

Matt: And it's pretty intense. And like there's some people, you know, like they're guilty, you know, they have heroin in their bags. I mean, they're going to jail for a long time.

Josh: As a viewer, you're hoping they've got something.

Matt: Yeah, why are we watching? Yeah, if we don't see people's lives be destroyed.

Tommy: Do you feel like— so people who don't know, it's like, uh, at customs when like you go into, into the country, Australia is very, very strict when it comes to things like plant-based food anything that could be— they could have like bugs and shit on it.

Josh: Yeah, nuts. So what we're asking is, what'd you smuggle over here, Matt?

Matt: Some avocados? Johnny Depp got in a lot of trouble. He's not like— he's banned from the country because he brought his dogs over secretly without saying anything.

Josh: Well, he flew over on his private jet and brought his dogs and didn't get the right— it's like going to another country and not getting the visa. Yeah, it didn't fill out. It's just the rule of the country.

Matt: The paperwork. Yeah, no, we didn't smuggle anything over, although I See, like I told you, I'm more Type A. Yeah. Than Natalie is. So I'm like, she's like planning on bringing the peanuts that we bought from the airport in. And I'm like, you can't do that. I just watched the video and they said that you cannot bring any food from the aeroplane or beforehand. And I think you could probably get away with it, but I'd just rather not risk it. Yeah, I feel like you guys are really strict with it.

Tommy: Yeah, absolutely. Like Australia, New Zealand. I feel like those countries in particular are quite strict.

Josh: Yeah. When I went to New Zealand, they were Super strict. They're like, have you been on a farm within the last month? And are you wearing the shoes that were on that farm?

Tommy: They do that in Australia as well.

Matt: That's because we don't have anything to lose in America. We've already desecrated our land.

Tommy: You have ticks everywhere.

Matt: Ticks?

Tommy: Ticks.

Matt: Yeah. In America?

Tommy: Yeah. That's not a big thing in Australia.

Matt: No. Ticks on the— it's mostly on the East Coast where I was from in Jersey. Like, if you went out in the woods, you'd have to come home and like cheque your hair and like do like a full body search. I had a tick on my dick once.

Tommy: Oh!

Matt: Hey!

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: It's the time of the episode.

Matt: Merry Christmas! Yeah, and I was— I had to get my mom to remove it. I want to say that I was young, but I was definitely too old. How old were you? I must have been probably like 10. Way, way too old. You know what I mean? It's not a medical procedure.

Josh: It's actually not too old to have it done. It's too old for you as a young 10-year-old to think that that's what needs to now happen.

Matt: It is, because it's unfortunate, because that's— memories stick after 10, much more than they do beforehand.

Tommy: Oh, yeah.

Matt: So it sticks. Yeah. And it was like, my dad worked at a grocery store. He told everybody. Like, I went in the next day, and like, everybody's looking at me funny. I think he made an announcement over the PA system. Tik Tik! Yeah, Tik Tik. I was definitely— that was definitely the nickname, was Tik Tik.

Tommy: Was it hard to get off? I'm so sorry.

Matt: I hope to God my mom doesn't listen to this show. It was pretty easy.

Tommy: Does it actually stick into your skin?

Matt: It does stick into your skin and it required tweezers.

Josh: Tweezers. What about, what's that, Sandlot Kids? You know, where they're walking down the train line. River Phoenix is in it.

Matt: Right.

Josh: It's a classic film. And not Sandlot Kids, uh—

Matt: Sandlot is a movie, but then—

Josh: Yeah, no, um, I should know this. I totally know the movie. I've watched it a million times.

Tommy: Run, Forrest, run! Is it Forrest Gump?

Josh: Yeah, he says that and he runs across the, um, it's not Forrest Gump. He says that there's a scene where they're on this train bridge, The Goonies, and the train comes and he's like, run!

Tommy: Is it The Goonies?

Josh: Run! And he's running and he jumps across. It's not. It's not. Listeners are like, bro, it's this movie, you're a fucking idiot. But in that film, hi@thedailytalkshow.com. Um, in that film, he, uh, he goes into a swamp and River Phoenix gets, um, leeches.

Tommy: Uh, right.

Matt: Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Josh: It wasn't— I always thought—

Tommy: I always thought—

Josh: no, it wasn't a fat club.

Matt: Leeches are big. They are like the size of the palm of your hand.

Josh: Well, they were big— bigger in America because camp is—

Matt: I've never seen them though.

Tommy: You've never have?

Matt: No, I've never seen them. Although here's the thing, disappointed with Australia because I heard like you guys like don't fuck around when it comes to spiders and all this stuff.

Josh: But we're not here to fuck spiders.

Matt: You're not here to fuck spiders. That's it.

Josh: That's the saying.

Tommy: No, but they're pretty. Is that really—

Matt: Yeah, you don't see a lot. I don't know.

Tommy: What is the saying?

Josh: So the saying is, if I was like, uh, Matt and I meet up, we're having a few beers at the pub, and I'm like, yo, Matt, are you, um, you getting pissed tonight? You having a few, few beers tonight? And Matt would respond, I'm not here, fuck spiders.

Tommy: What does it actually mean?

Josh: It's like, I'm not here to fuck around. I'm not here. I'm here to have a good time.

Tommy: I get it.

Josh: So anyway, so yes.

Tommy: I wanted to know about the water in regards to Hugh Jackman drowning and all that. Well, not drowning. He was fine. What was the water training sort of swimming lessons like on the East Coast? Did you guys have swimming lessons growing up?

Matt: Yeah, nothing is mandatory. There were maybe like one or two kids in every grade that didn't actually learn how to swim. Yeah, pretty rare. Most people had above-ground or in-ground swimming pools at their house. At their house. Yeah. Maybe not most, maybe like 50%, but above-ground wasn't like royalty. That was like above-ground is like you—

Tommy: Aldi had a special.

Matt: Yeah, it's like just dig a hole and put it underneath. But yeah, we had an above-ground pool. And I learned to swim pretty early on, but not good. I'm not a good swimmer at all. I can just survive.

Josh: Would you feel confident going out in this, in this kind of way?

Matt: I've always had a bit of a low-key fear about like oceans too, but I have gotten better over time.

Josh: Is it the shark thing or just like—

Matt: No, I think just like the power of the ocean and like the current getting swept away and like hearing horror storeys of stuff like that happening.

Tommy: I was close to drowning. I had to be rescued once. I like I didn't see the sign that said don't go above like your waist, and I went in near my shoulders and just started getting dragged in. I was like putting my hand up, it was like the waves were dumping me, and I was like coughing and screaming. I couldn't scream because my throat was all like filled up. And they had one lifeguard came in to try and get me, and their board got smashed by the wave, and then the second one had to come. I thought I was gonna die.

Josh: The scariest thing about drowning is that, uh, you die. No, hang on, hang on. If you drowned, if you drowned, you're dead.

Tommy: It's like being electrocuted.

Josh: So drowning doesn't look like what you think drowning would look like.

Tommy: Yeah, it's—

Josh: that's, that's the scary thing about it. So here at the beach, when there's hundreds of people, thousands of people in the water, so what they do here, if some— if something's happened, they take everyone out of the water. So there's like a siren that goes off And you should see, it's the most eerie thing. Yeah. Thousands, maybe 4,000 people are at the beach. Everyone's out and they're looking for someone in the water. But drown— so you don't flail like, you know, you think in a movie. Sometimes at some point of it, it does. But like real bad drowning, you can't tell. That's the problem.

Matt: What's usually the main thing? Is it like just— is it the current pulling you down? Is it exhaustion?

Josh: You don't usually scream because you're so exhausted so that doesn't happen. It's just like, yeah, bobbing.

Matt: Oh, what's the protocol too? Are you— I heard that you're supposed to let the current take you and then not fight it. Is that true?

Tommy: You go off to the side.

Josh: I learned as a kid, my dad, keen surfer. I've been in waters like this since I was—

Tommy: There's a drone, by the way, guys.

Josh: A little, uh, Mavic Pro.

Tommy: Mavic.

Matt: Yeah, that's actually my B cam.

Josh: Uh, you could have at least bought a B cam, bro. Ask him for the footage. Um, so one of the things is to swim across.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: In a rip.

Matt: Okay, just go straight to the side.

Josh: Well, yeah, it's easier. Or, I mean, I always just try and catch a wave, but it's scary.

Tommy: The idea of like catching a wave, I think, underplays the feeling of when it's happening because it's like you have it. And even the idea of swimming to the side, like I've heard that as well. Yeah. The thing is though, you don't even know where the beach is. You can completely lose perspective.

Josh: Oh yeah, that's when you're in serious trouble.

Tommy: But I find laying on my back is real, like whenever I'm freaking out, even just me in general.

Matt: Yeah, just me.

Tommy: Yeah, yeah, me in Italy though, and I'm like, I'll be swimming heaps, if I start getting tired, I just start floating.

Josh: So just lazy.

Matt: Yeah, it's easier.

Tommy: It's super good.

Josh: Yeah, too many Aperol Spritz.

Matt: So just on the back, just go into like a dominant pose or submissive pose.

Tommy: This drone is reminding me of Tommy when he was sort of starting his video business originally, he got a— you would have been one of the first people in Melbourne to have a drone.

Josh: So when the Mavic Pro first came out, I got the order and I got it pretty much as soon as they got sent out.

Tommy: Yeah, this would have been what, 3 years ago maybe?

Josh: Yeah, 3 years ago. And I went hard. So funny, I see people now out flying their drones and I just, I think, fuck, you've got no idea, as in the, the rules and the safety. And, and it's—

Tommy: and I think about like that as well, 100%.

Josh: I think about myself. It's—

Matt: well, dude, I mean, this is pretty timely with the Gatwick Airport, uh, drone situation. Uh, there was a— they had to shut down the Gatwick Airport in London, or just outside of London, twice because this same drone kept popping up.

Josh: Yeah, I just heard on the news on the way over here, I think there was actually no drone.

Tommy: Really?

Josh: No, there was. So the two people that found two people, but there was What they're saying is we actually don't think there was a legit drone. Like it wasn't real.

Matt: What did they think it was? It was like a bird or something?

Josh: I don't know.

Tommy: A kite?

Josh: So obviously someone called in something people were being suspicious and they thought it was. I don't know. I'll give you another update.

Tommy: Do you know what I saw on YouTube recommendations on the right-hand side yesterday was a drone footage of an A380. Have you seen this? Like one of the massive Airbus planes. Yeah, uh, this drone was flying and basically alongside the A380, and it's a legit— it was recorded about a year and a half ago.

Josh: Hang on, how fast does that drone have to go?

Tommy: Well, so it was like panning across, so it was basically stationary. Yeah, as and in front of the sort of to the side, front sort of side to the, um, plane, and saw it taking off and sort of panned as the plane was going.

Matt: It wasn't edited? Like, that was like—

Tommy: it was like a legit— wow, crazy.

Matt: What do you guys think about drones now? Because at the time it was— I remember seeing some of the earliest drone footage online, and as filmmakers you look at it and be like, wow, that's really cool. Like, that's an amazing shot to get. And then in a similar way that sliders and dollies, everybody has them, Glidecam or whatever stabiliser you have, like, at this point Do you guys use drones much? Is it like, and like, I don't know, is it hyped up more than it is?

Josh: Definitely.

Tommy: I haven't used— I've got like the Phantom 4 Pro Plus or whatever, and I haven't used it in a year.

Matt: Yeah, I think that there probably should be a club of us of drone owners that never drone. Yeah, it's just too much work.

Tommy: Yeah.

Matt: And like, honestly, I'm always disappointed with what I get, and I'm like, I just— the drone always tends to sway and it doesn't go in a straight line.

Josh: And I'm like, it has to make sense to the shoot if you need it for specific. I mean, like this guy, we'll get the footage off him for our B-roll for this video. But I— what I worked out was you can impress people very easily with a drone. All you need to do is have them in the moment question how the fuck you got that shot.

Matt: Yeah.

Tommy: So for instance, which is always dangerous.

Josh: Yeah, I don't mean anything like an illegal way. I mean, like, it's like if you're using a gimbal If you reached over a table and you pulled back and revealed, so you're travelling across the table, or for instance, if you're on a beach and you're pulling back and you go out across water, people just, 'cause it goes from a shot that could be done on a normal camera with a gimbal to then going, holy shit, that's a fucking drone. And so those kind of shots really impressed me.

Matt: Yeah, and that's kind of what got me into filmmaking to begin with is, Being able to get that reaction from people that are like, wow, you did that? You made that yourself?

Josh: The tick wasn't enough?

Matt: That's amazing.

Josh: Double down on ticks.

Matt: Double down on tick dick.

Josh: #DickTick.

Matt: Somebody's going to have to help one of these fuckers. This guy's like—

Josh: So a guy's just jumped off a small cliff into some whitewater.

Matt: That looks pretty rough.

Josh: OK, here's the fucked up thing. So I surfed out here. We're like on the point in Bondi. On one of the days it was so rough, like 10 times as rough as this. It was stormy. Yeah. The thing is, if you get close to the rocks, it's less rippy. So when you're surfing, the way you actually get out on the point— so my mate who I was with was super talented surfer. He says, if you're in trouble, swim as hard as you can at the rocks because it loses all its pull. So look at these guys. They're like— you'd think they're fucked, but they're fine.

Matt: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because I look at them like, oh God, this is—

Josh: That looks so dodgy.

Tommy: The same, he's running the same. Yeah, that would have been bad for them. Yeah, getting very close to it.

Matt: Like, all it takes is you get hit your head on one of those rocks too.

Tommy: Yeah.

Matt: Are we just, uh, risk-averse or are these kids idiots?

Tommy: No, the kids are idiots.

Josh: Yeah. Nah, I've grown up around the water.

Matt: Like, that's normal.

Josh: I did shit like that constantly.

Tommy: The, um, talking about the drone shots, I feel like in the same vein, the MoVI stabiliser stuff, it's It's the same sort of thing with the, specifically I remember being at NAB, like the National Association of Broadcasters Expo, and they had like Movi was showing all of the footage that they got with the camera and they show all the behind the scenes stuff, which is like people like, they'll have it going upstairs on a little crane thing and then they lift it up and then someone's running with it and then it goes through a car and then you actually watch the footage and I feel like the behind the scenes scenes always looked way more impressive than the actual shot. Yeah, yeah.

Matt: And even for like people that are inexperienced with filmmaking, uh, like I'll even— Nat and I were watching, uh, Marvelous Mrs. Maisel, and there's some clever shots where it's very simple, but it's just the camera pulls back and then reveals a phone in the bar, and then you realise that they had to have like a dolly on a crane to pull back and actually make that reveal. And it's a pretty complicated— I mean, a simple looking shot, but pretty complicated in post. Nobody knows. Like, she did not notice.

Josh: Yeah.

Matt: And most people don't.

Tommy: Do you still have your Movi?

Matt: I just sold it a couple months ago. And I'm like, I think this is like a transition for me doing client work and working with like brands and startup companies to doing original content where you have to do it all yourself. So I was like, I, you know, I now I have one of these little Zhiyun cranes, which I don't use. But I mean, it's, I think it's a good question.

Josh: Hand gesture again that you just did.

Matt: Did I do like a jerk off? You will see this if you sign up for my Patreon. Yeah, I think so.

Josh: I made a video recently for my wife. She just had this little expo, uh, for a candle store at a market is what she did. And I just had my A7, and I've— there is legit like no need for a slider or a Zhiyun Crane for the most part for a lot of stuff, unless you're running after somebody or wanting to just get that look where you're just holding it and you know, you're walking long distance. But I was doing shots, it's 50 frames, 60 frames, and it looks like it's on a Glidecam.

Matt: Yeah.

Josh: And so it's, there is ways around it. I think the tools are like, it was very popular for one point to do all that stuff. And now it's, we've gone through, there's a, well, it's like having a funny meme. It's like how we went through handheld into gimbals.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: And now it's all going back to that handheld look.

Matt: Yeah. My problem is that it's, it slows you down.

Tommy: Yeah.

Matt: To set up on a gimbal, to set up your drone. And especially if I'm doing something more vlogging or on-the-fly style, I don't want to take that all that time to do it. And especially if I'm filming myself, there's just not much option. You have to do everything on a tripod. Yeah.

Tommy: I've been using the Easyrig a bunch, which is all right, but it's like it's the same handheld. Yeah, but it's a certain style. Which I can't work out how to do first-person filming. Like I've gotten so used to filming these short docs with the Easyrig and with an FS7 that the idea of like, how do I create a video that doesn't have, that has me in it. Is it for you looking like there's a lot of— Do you use just a lot of tripod shots? Do you find that you lean on that a lot?

Matt: Yeah, I mean, it's funny because people will, say that about my videos and say they have a certain style to it and everything's on a tripod and everything's simple and set up. And I'm like, that's because I have to. I mean, I don't have somebody that— to tilt the— I mean, I may have more movement in my shots if I had somebody else filming them, and I probably would actually do a lot more handheld stuff if I had somebody shooting it because I'd be like, let's just grab it, let's go, let's get the shot, and let's get to the next thing. Uh, and so maybe my style will change if I'm able to hire a filmmaker to help out more. But—

Josh: So you lowered the barrier to entry to start being in front of the camera, 'cause that's kind of, Josh and I have been talking about, I've done that vlogging style, handheld, looking, holding it to myself, and then Josh has done the opposite, 'cause he's focused more on the client stuff and telling someone else's story. And so it's like, yeah, how do you transition? And did you do it because that was the, I just had no choice, that's the only way I can do it?

Matt: It's 'cause it's the only way, it had to be done, and I've like learned so much from doing the vlogging style that it's, I don't wanna say it's more difficult, I just wanna say it's a totally different ballgame, and that I had to relearn how to be a filmmaker in a different way, and filming yourself is very difficult, and I think you can actually even see that in my early videos that I released a year plus ago to 2 years ago, that the quality is pretty shit, like overall, I just, it wasn't nearly to the standard of my freelance work that I was doing.

Tommy: Was that painful for you?

Matt: Pretty painful, but it was like, just get over it. I got to release a video. Like I had, you know, I said I need to release a video every single week, so it just kept me going.

Tommy: You're shooting a bunch more. Like, do you find that like half the time you'll watch stuff and say, oh, that was like, I was completely out of focus there. Like you don't have any monitor that you're pointing to you or anything.

Matt: Sometimes I do, but I do like reshoot stuff. I'll shoot a video I recently did a video about minimalism and really what it is. It was called, uh, What Minimalism Really Looks Like, and I shot a talking head. It was just gonna be me talking to the camera about what minimalism is, and then I realised that like a couple weeks after I shot it, because I had, you know, shot it well in advance of when I planned on releasing it, and I was like, ah, this is just— it doesn't feel good. I feel like I could do this a lot better. I could get more creative with it, and it's also probably going to be a video that would resonate and do well. So So I was like, let me actually rethink this. And so for me, I think the biggest learning lesson has been to put more time into pre-production and plan out my videos and think about ways to get creative. Because I'm not that funny on the spot. But if I have some time, I could probably think of a decent joke to put into my videos.

Josh: Tik Tik was pretty funny. But that was real.

Matt: Tik Tik was pretty good.

Tommy: That's a bit of gear, though. That's something you've been working on for many years.

Matt: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Tik Tik was a routine. I was a child when I started it.

Tommy: I remember you did one video where you talked about people can make excuses around, I can only do this thing when I've got like the 50mm f/1.2 lens or whatever different product it is then and there, the drone, the gimbal. What is the one time of late that you've picked yourself up on going like, hang on, you're doing exactly the thing that you're trying to avoid?

Matt: Oh yeah. Yeah, no, I do that stuff all the time. Like, I'm not like— and I think sometimes you, you talk about stuff from experience.

Tommy: Yeah.

Matt: And not saying that I'm perfect in like, I'm the guy that would be like, oh man, I can't— I remember early on thinking that I needed a 50mm prime lens in order to shoot this one video. So I bought it way before I ever needed it and I didn't even use it on the shoot. I guess I didn't need it, but I did recently. I did buy the Zhiyun Crane. Actually, like, coming to Australia a couple weeks ago for a wedding, and I was like, I packed my tripod and the crane, and I was gonna get all the shots. I only used the crane for one shot.

Tommy: Really? And I was filming the wedding.

Matt: No, that's your job. Yeah, guys, things have been rough on Patreon.

Tommy: I hope you didn't rock up with any gear, because, you know, like, you'll go to a wedding and there's like one guy who's like the cousin of the bride who's got like an I've been to a few weddings recently and I just love watching the wedding videographers just scrambling.

Josh: I just think, fuck, I feel so—

Matt: Dude, these guys feel for you, bro. I don't know, the guys that filmed this wedding, I was disappointed with their performance because they would— they had Holster cameras, right? They had the coolest straps, like these leather straps. Like, it looked like it was originally for a gun.

Josh: Yes.

Matt: And then they had their cameras lashed on their side and they had no lens caps on them and they're just running around with the camera flying at their hip with the lens potentially scratching against any and everything that's next to them.

Josh: Were they full hipster lenses too?

Matt: They were hipster. Oh my God. Yeah, they were from Germany and Japan.

Josh: Same leather straps that this video—

Matt: Did they have crazy light on the camera?

Josh: There was one guy who had a light on the camera.

Matt: There was—

Josh: they were like those tiny little LED light. No, the tiny little lenses, you know, like the prime.

Matt: Oh yeah.

Tommy: Like an adapter type of thing.

Josh: Yeah. The old.

Matt: Oh, and these guys, but these guys had the light on the camera and I'm like, with these new lenses, you don't need a light on your camera. And like, it was in your face. I'm like, guys, please. I mean, it honestly is like, I don't know, it's disruptive. I'm trying to dance, man. I'm trying to get weird. I can't have evidence that this happened.

Tommy: Do you remember the last wedding you filmed?

Matt: I remember when I decided to quit weddings because weddings are hard. When you quit, you have a whole nother year of weddings to do because you've booked out for a year. But I did 3 weddings in one weekend, Friday, Saturday, and Sunday.

Tommy: And then what would you charge per wedding? Do you remember?

Matt: It was pretty affordable. I think I started out doing $1,000 a wedding to build up a portfolio, and then I eventually got 2 cameras, $3,000 or $3,500.

Tommy: Yeah.

Matt: US dollars. And the third wedding was at like a Russian buffet, kind of. It looked like a Chinese buffet restaurant. And it was like a hole in the wall. There was disco dancers and singers that were like the hosts of the night, and I was like, I'm done. I can't do this shit anymore.

Tommy: How many edits would you— because I know a bunch of wedding filmmakers and they'll have like 20 edits that they're working on. They end up having to get contractors in to help them and they just—

Matt: I think people overbook and they don't like— they're not that good at managing their projects if they're like not being able to edit them. And I think maybe it also comes from the fact that people get very good at shooting and filming first, and they don't put as much time into the editing. And I think that if you become a very good editor, you can edit projects very quick and efficiently.

Josh: I met at this wedding I'm talking about with those guys with the hipster holsters, you could call them. I met the guy whose production company it was, and his girlfriend, they were kind of like, oh, what do you do? And then I asked the same and they said, "Oh, I've got a wedding video business." And then her girlfriend sort of jumped in and was like, "Oh, you know, yeah, this year they've done 98 weddings." And I just cringed, ugh.

Tommy: 98 weddings.

Josh: But I mean, this is their business, right? And who do we have?

Tommy: It's not too dissimilar to like having a catering business at that point, right? Where it's like, you're very like delivering, 'cause you're not gonna be able to, I mean, do you think that the craft, you've got to lose the craft at that point. If you're doing that amount, you've at least got to have a bunch of employees or contractors.

Matt: Yeah, I think so. And I think that I— that's a route to go and it's the cheap, quick route. Yeah, it's like I think that you will definitely lose quality and I would rather be the person that charges more, the person that people cringe at. You charge $10,000 for a wedding or $30,000 for a video. Like, I would rather be that person because there are plenty of people willing to pay that and it allows you to focus on it.

Josh: At what point do you lose sight of the craft? I got my son's daycare. I always saw, he's so lovely. You're always like, smile and look over at me waving. And we had the Christmas party at the daycare last week and I was like, he's definitely a creative. He's always like late in with the kids. He must have run his own thing. And then we started speaking. That guy owns a production company. I was like, oh bro, me too. And we're chatting and what, you know, what do you do, what kind of stuff are you doing? And the way he'd kind of given in to the fact that he does non-aspirational client work. Yeah, but he's successful. And he was kind of referring to, because I was saying kind of what Josh and I are doing, you know, we've come from doing the client work and sort of focusing on the more story-driven doco style, the stuff that we really love. And he's like, oh man, that sounds so so fucking great. And he was talking about paying the bills, and it sounds like he's like given over to the fact that he's got a business that doesn't do aspirational content in terms of what he thinks is even aspirational.

Matt: Isn't that sad though too, like when somebody starts explaining what they do and then in the first couple, like the 5 minutes, they're already like giving disclaimers and like saying like, you know, like it's not like the most glamorous stuff. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Do shit you love. I mean, it's easier said than done, But you can— it seems like if he's established and successful, and I think this is one of the reasons why you want to charge a lot more. Because if you charge a lot more for your videos, then you can start to say no to the projects that you don't really care about.

Josh: How far in— like, when's it too late? Having 4 kids and then saying, honey, I'm chasing my dreams, quitting my job. That's a very hard— that's a hard thing to do.

Tommy: Well, I think that part of it is— The fact that it doesn't have to be like video production doesn't have to be what it is for everyone else. It can just be literally what accounting is for an accountant. Or like, I think that some of the times, like, I find that it hard to explain what I do sometimes just because I feel like I owe some honest answer where I need to— like, you can fall into that disclaimer thing where it's like 'Cause sometimes there's also a gap between this is where I want to be, but this is actually where I am right now. And feeling like it's disingenuous to say, yeah, I'm doing a doco type. Like I struggle calling myself, I've changed my website from Josh Janson, I had like filmmaker or whatever, to like Josh Janson, podcaster and video creator. I feel like I'm more comfortable with that at the moment.

Matt: I think that's a good point though, in that like, if you are giving a disclaimer or prefacing what you do, I find myself too, like almost downplaying what I do in a way, as to not maybe like get people to think that I'm bragging about myself.

Josh: You mean you don't say, "Bitch, I got over 700K subscribers on YouTube." Yeah, I actually have a business card that just says 700.

Matt: I gotta get it redone all the time, so it keeps going up. So annoying. Uh, no, I think it's like, I always try to downplay what I do, and I actually wouldn't tell somebody that I'm a YouTuber. Well, mainly because I've always been a filmmaker, and that just is more natural. It's just a different platform. But also, you just try not to like get too many questions, and you know what I mean?

Tommy: Absolutely.

Matt: Because we do cool shit for a living. It's like, you don't want people to feel bad about themselves or what they're doing.

Josh: It sounds like the, from my mind, the very anti-American thing to sort of say to myself.

Matt: Oh yeah, to downplay yourself.

Josh: Yeah, because I mean, that's what I love about a lot of Americans I've met. They're not afraid to promote their success, which can come across to some people as a bit gross.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: But to others, it's like, man, he's owning it. Well fucking done.

Matt: There's an art to it, right? There's like an art to the humble brag.

Tommy: The subtle art of the humble brag.

Matt: Yeah, it will like help you. Yeah, I think move your career along in a lot of ways.

Josh: All you're really saying is, oh, that guy, that Boat Guy just lost his hat. They went over a big wave in a boat and he's had to turn around for the hat.

Tommy: Expensive hat.

Josh: This is coming to you live from Bondi Beach. We've got a hat rescue happening.

Matt: Hat rescue. There it is. Oh my God, it's Hugh Jackman's hat.

Tommy: This is definitely—

Matt: And Hugh Jackman's drowning.

Tommy: Do you think they're actually going to jump in? This is a hero moment if I've ever seen it. They're about to literally jump in.

Matt: Oh, that's the kid.

Tommy: The kid has jumped in to get the hat.

Josh: Oh, he's been taken by a shark.

Matt: Oh, there's a lot of blood.

Tommy: That's a big hat. That's a comical hat.

Josh: Essentially, you're just saying what you're good at. Yeah. And that is how— like, we have a hard time explaining to people, these are our skills.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: Like, this is what I'm actually really good at.

Matt: Well, I guess the thing is, like, who's the audience? And when we're talking to people that we meet randomly— This is my grandma. Yeah, exactly. Listen, Grandma, I need to let you know. Yeah, I think that, like, when you're talking to people that are just, like, friends, or maybe you're meeting acquaintances whatever, it doesn't really matter. Yeah, but when you're talking to a potential client, then I think it's— that's where it makes sense to like talk up what you've done. Yeah, and I think it helps actually having done really cool shit and having done great work that speaks for itself.

Josh: What about this? So I know like small scale, I've had some videos do well where I'm going to an event where I've got like friends— they're not my close friends, but I know that sort of within my reach in terms of them sort of seeing what I'm up to and what I've been— and they kind of reference it and it's kind of like, "Haha." It makes me feel a bit awkward when they sort of go, "Oh, I see what, you know, you're doing. For you, you've just— your channel's blown up. Maybe you haven't left the house, that's why it's blown up because you've worked so hard." But people saying, "Oh, Matt, I see you doing well." Like, what's your response to like, "Oh, your videos are so good, man.

Tommy: I see." But maybe does it— is it because that you have, maybe where we feel uncomfortable is that we don't necessarily have all of those metrics. Like in some regards, that feels like the missing key for a lot of people is it's like, yeah, I'm a YouTuber. It's like, oh yeah, how many subscribers do you have? Do you think that that gives you a level of—

Josh: 'Cause he's got a good answer?

Tommy: Yeah, that you've got a good answer.

Matt: Yeah, there's like, yeah, I mean, it's difficult too because even like when you look at big media company and freelance and filmmaking client work, the only way that people would ever really know that you're successful is if maybe you worked with big brands and you had a big campaign that you worked on, or is if you just told them how much money you made. So I mean, it's like, I think that first thing is that you just have to let go of like, who gives a shit? I think early on—

Josh: Turn around your P&L.

Matt: Yeah, yeah. You know what, man? Honestly, like, early on, like, I really cared about it. And me and my friends had a lighthearted competition early on where it was like, oh, who can make 6 figs first? And then it was like, we kept playing that game And it was funny and it was good to make fun of each other and one-up each other. But then eventually it was like, all right, the game's not really fun anymore.

Tommy: Well, once you start getting successful, yeah. But when you do get successful, all the successful people I know, they go through a point of not talking about it anymore. Yeah. It's like, you know, if your friend isn't sharing how much they're on at the job, like at your work, it's because they're on more money than you.

Matt: Because they're what?

Tommy: On more money than you. The person who The person who's not making as much will always go, bro, I'll tell you, I'm on $60 grand. I'm just being upfront with you. And then— It's like, why are you telling me this? The thing is, if your friend responds, goes, yeah, man, I'm on like $60 grand too or whatever. Or if they just go, oh yeah, man, I'm on similar, that means they're probably on $85,000.

Matt: That they're actually making a tonne more. Yeah, I think that's something that I've gone through too, where like I actually in the beginning, I felt this urge to let people know that I was successful. Hey guys, look how amazing I'm doing because I was just very proud of myself in that it's very hard to, I think, make it as a freelancer to do something on the independent route. It's more common now than it's been in the past, but it has been something that I've gotten over that I'm like, and I think maybe it has been because I've gotten where like the goals that I had set for myself, but also when I, I had to set like an enough point where I was like, $75,000 in New York City, if I can make that much, I'll be happy. It'll allow me to like, you know, it's a little bit extra, allows me to go out to nice restaurants.

Tommy: A little bit extra.

Matt: A little bit extra, yeah. And, uh, but it was just like, uh, then I made more than that, and but it wasn't every year I kept making more. Some years I would regret, so I make less money.

Tommy: They say like, what if you earn over $75K or whatever, like your happiness level doesn't go up.

Matt: Yeah, but I think it's like, first it depends where you live, right? And it depends what means for like $150K in New York. Yeah, like in places like that, it's probably higher. And in places like Alabama or like rural areas, it's probably $30,000 a year.

Tommy: It's The Daily Talk Show, everyone. Christmas Day, hope everyone's having a great Christmas. And Matt D'Avella, you're going to be on tomorrow's episode as well.

Matt: Yeah, I can't wait. We're going to record it tomorrow, and it's going to be amazing.

Tommy: I'm so sorry. It's The Daily Talk Show. Hi@thedailytalkshow.com if you want to send us an email. Otherwise, we'll see you tomorrow, guys. See ya.

Matt: Bye.