Matt D'Avella Rates Australian Food

Tommy: It's a very low barrier to get into the Gronk Squad.

Josh: That's crazy! We've committed to do The Daily Talk Show for 10 years.

Tommy: Say hi, guys.

Matt: Hi, guys.

Josh: Put it in the calendar. I just like to cheque the temperature in the room. I told you my squeegee story.

Tommy: It is outrageous.

Josh: Come on, let's go. It's The Daily Talk Show, episode 960, eh?

Tommy: Matt D'Avella.

Matt: Yeah, I made it! I made it!

Tommy: Welcome to the studio.

Matt: Honestly, this feels like freedom.

Josh: Really?

Matt: Yeah, to be in Australia. It's ironic because that's usually what Americans talk about, but so Australia is just doing so well.

Josh: You've been in Australia for how long?

Matt: Uh, since December. Yeah, we got in and did our hotel quarantine on like December 4th in Sydney.

Tommy: And you celebrated your birthday? Yeah, I saw that in hotel quarantine.

Matt: In hotel quarantine. And actually, dude, we lucked out with hotel quarantine because like I've obviously seen a lot of storeys of people who've had a really tough time and a rough go, but we had a balcony. They actually gave us a choice. They said, and this is when you become an influencer.

Tommy: Is it true you hung your plaque, your YouTube plaque in the hotel room?

Matt: Yeah, that's right. I actually had to send it to them beforehand. That's how I got this good hotel. Uh, no, obviously we just lucked out. Uh, and they, but they did give us an option where they said this hotel has a balcony or you could have like a suite, which is like basically an extra room, like a living room with it. And, uh, that was a difficult choice. And it was actually, it tore everybody in the room because there was all these police officers and military there and everybody started chatting about it.

Josh: They're like, which one would you do?

Matt: Would you go for the balcony or would you go for the suite?

Josh: Oh, so everyone got— so were you on a bus? What was the deal?

Matt: Uh, we were on a bus and then we like logged into the Wi-Fi of the hotel when we were in the bus before we got off.

Tommy: Yeah.

Matt: And then we were just poking around and then Nat was like, oh my God, I think they have balconies. And so when we asked, when we got up to the, the, you know, concierge, we're like, oh, do you happen to have balconies? And he said, actually, I was going to give you a suite, but we could do either one. And then, uh, that's when we were just like, that was like paradox of choice. Had no idea what to do because we're like, more space obviously would be great, but like Not having fresh air for a week would be insane.

Tommy: I haven't spoken to anyone. I don't think that's anyone that's been in quarantine. So you pay for the hotel quarantine. Do you even know what hotel you're getting?

Matt: No, no, they know.

Tommy: You just like secret hotel, really.

Matt: Like, you know, I wanted to film it because I was like, this is such an interesting experience, but you're not allowed to because it's like, I know, because it's kind of like secret and not secretive, but I just think it's just, um, they have such a tightly run system there.

Tommy: And that's just your security team.

Matt: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like I said, ever since I hit a mil, you know, Yeah, yeah, uh, become a real fuckhead. Fuckboy. Uh, no, but, uh, you know, they, um, you know, you don't know where you're going. They just, you know, you come up to a hotel and like, I think having that outdoor space like really saved us. And for me, like, I actually just played video games the entire time. I just like played 60 hours of, uh, Ghost of Tsushima, which was pretty great.

Josh: So you're spending— is this the most amount of time you've spent in Australia?

Matt: Yes, by far. Yeah. In the past it's only been 3 or 4 weeks, but we're doing— this is going to be at least a 5-month trip now.

Josh: Observations for staying longer. What have you noticed that you don't normally pick up on?

Matt: I mean, obviously my wife, Nat, is from Sydney and it's, you know, and I've loved it every time I've come here, but I think I've just fallen in love with it even more. Just, you know, just great people, good food. Papa John's, you know.

Tommy: How much is that?

Josh: Did you say Papa John's?

Matt: Yeah, that's their motto. Good food, good people. Papa John's.

Josh: We don't actually have Papa John's in Australia.

Matt: So nobody got that.

Tommy: How much is it influenced by Nat saying, how good is this?

Matt: How good is this?

Tommy: I can imagine that's like really selling in Australia, or is it doing itself?

Matt: Yeah, I think that she is cautious to not put too much pressure on like how great is it here.

Tommy: Because it is pretty fucking great.

Matt: It's great. I mean, honestly, and like, uh, you know, there's really no comparison because the States, you know, for all of 2020, and like, I, I honestly, you know what's weird is I, I, it's hard to enjoy it with the amount of guilt that I have for being here, because it's like really rough too for like my family now and everybody in America and Los Angeles and around the world. Like everybody's really having a hard time. And not to say that like obviously Australians have had a difficult time as well, but like in America right now, it's just a different universe.

Tommy: Well, it's been super strict, like in Melbourne, where you are now, we went through months of real strict lockdown curfews similar to what happened in LA.

Matt: Yeah.

Tommy: And so I mean, we've come out the other side. I mean, we had a lockdown last week, 5 days. Businesses closed. And that's where it's like, you don't know what was going to happen if it would go longer. And so, it's weird because our cases are so low here, but they're still so strict. And so, it's this, yeah, it's uncertainty for everybody as well.

Matt: Yeah. What was nice about being in hotel quarantine 14 days, they did a health check-up every day, but it was also a mental health check-up. So, they were checking to make sure that we were doing okay. And, you know, we were, you know, keeping the peace and not like losing our minds being locked in a hotel room for 14 days.

Josh: What are they checking?

Matt: Uh, they just, you know, they're just like, are you— how are you doing? Yeah, like, yeah, exactly.

Josh: Like, I mean, they, they run through the health checks, like just, you know, whether they do the thing where they hit your knee and say it's over the phone.

Matt: They can't do it. Oh really?

Josh: No, I could, I could just imagine a reflex test.

Matt: Yeah, yeah, that might— yeah, if it was that easy to test for COVID. Were you doing any exercise whilst you're in I actually did, because I think leading up to hotel quarantine, I was probably in the worst shape that I had been in. I don't want to say my entire life, but like for like probably the past like 5 years or so.

Josh: How do you notice? What's the—

Matt: oh, it's just like because like parts, you know, it's just funny because when you work out or when you start to put on weight, you start to like notice parts of your body that you've never noticed before. You're like, I didn't have that many rolls before. Like, I definitely had a very big gut and like when I would sit down, everything would start to roll over and, and I wasn't used to that. And so I was like, okay, I need to actually like get my life together. But it's hard because like all my routines were changed and it's— I wasn't able to go to the gym in the States. And so—

Tommy: Just to confirm, they're still not open? Yeah.

Matt: As far as I know. I didn't go to the gym. I mean, there were at points when they opened up, but I just never felt comfortable going. So, I never did.

Tommy: So, today's Friday and on the show we usually do something called Fat Fridays. And so, we're glad that you're here for it.

Matt: I'm here for it. And I'm really hungry. I haven't eaten anything all day.

Josh: What do you not like when you come to Australia? Are there any— Is there anything that you would eat, you know, go out of your way to eat because you enjoy it so much or that's just very Australiana?

Matt: Australiana. The meat pies are obviously great.

Tommy: Yeah.

Matt: I mean, nice lamb meat pie. Gourmet.

Josh: Yeah, that is. Yeah. Lamb pie is delicious.

Tommy: I mean, what's more Australian is you— The shittier the meat pie, the more Australian it is.

Matt: That's what I've heard, right? You get it from Servo, right? Yeah.

Tommy: It's funny, like the culture of Australia in terms of cuisine stuff, it's, it's a bit, it's can be a bit different. It's not like you're going to Italy or Mexico or something where it's very specific. Today we've got a few things that we want you to try. You may have tried some of them before.

Matt: Okay.

Josh: I think you probably already. Yeah.

Tommy: Act like you didn't. Okay.

Matt: I will be surprised by everything.

Tommy: You don't have to be surprised. We just want to get, get a little engaged. And then we also have something currently cooking that we're going to bring down from the balcony.

Matt: That's great, because I was actually concerned that it was going to be nothing but candy. I saw you guys put your bags in and I was like, I actually need a meal. And you're like, it's not much of a meal.

Tommy: So, I mean, Josh, you could— you want to bring one out or should I go?

Josh: Yeah, we'll go for the softest in regards to like most obvious Australian thing.

Matt: Okay. Okay. Got you. Got you.

Tommy: Slightly on a scale. Oh, yeah.

Matt: Oh, yeah.

Josh: Yep. Tim Tams.

Matt: Yep.

Josh: Okay.

Matt: Just had one 2 days ago.

Josh: Really?

Matt: But delicious. This is amazing.

Tommy: And so, I want you to maybe just treat this as the people from America, your hometown, your homeland, your motherland, and what they— if they haven't tried one before, what's the vibe? Give us the MacDiva.

Matt: It's funny because like Nat, have you guys ever done a Tim Tam slam?

Josh: Yes.

Matt: Yeah. Right. Is that like—

Tommy: Mate, what are we? Like an Australian?

Matt: Well, yeah. Like Nat convinced my entire family to do it like the first year she had Christmas with my family. And so, then we were all doing it and then— And she then told me afterwards, because she's like, everybody does this. Like everybody does Tim Tam slants. Like, it's like how you eat a Tim Tam. And then she said it's not as common as she made it sound.

Josh: You would do it if you had an international guest. Okay. It's great. How would you describe it?

Matt: Okay. Obviously smooth. Okay. You know, to me, I'm getting strong notes of chocolate. Milk chocolate. 'Cause obviously Tim Tams, they have a lot of different flavours. This is the classic, right? This is the OG original.

Josh: I actually prefer the double.

Tommy: Yeah, but—

Matt: Oh, they got a double big one?

Josh: No, no, it's just like they dip it in chocolate twice, I guess.

Tommy: Which I think they kind of stuffed up, or they're winning because they are better than the original. But I wanted to get the original because it's the original.

Matt: It's classic. It's funny that we don't have anything like this in America. The closest thing is like an Oreo.

Tommy: No, not calories for you.

Matt: I mean, what else would be close to this?

Tommy: Yeah, I mean, it's just a couple wafers. Kit Kats. Do you have Kit Kats?

Matt: Yeah, yeah, we have Kit Kats.

Tommy: So it's like that.

Matt: That was giving me a lot of shit the other day because I— it's hard in Australia because like, or when, whenever you're in a different country, right, because people have different kinds of snacks.

Tommy: Mm-hmm.

Matt: We don't have Tim Tams anywhere else. Yeah, and so then I saw what looked like a Kit Kat bar and And, but it didn't say Kit Kat on the COVID and it looked exactly like a Kit Kat. And I was like, oh, what? I was like to the lady, I was like, can I get that Nestle bar?

Tommy: Nestle.

Matt: And that is like, first of all, it's Nestlé, you idiot. Second of all, it's a fucking Kit Kat.

Josh: Some people like it. There are a few ways of saying it. And so which one, which one was it? The Nestlé?

Matt: It was just a regular Kit Kat.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: But yeah.

Matt: Okay. Nestlé.

Tommy: Yeah. All right. I'm going to pull out something.

Matt: Are you guys going to eat this too?

Josh: Yeah, I'll have a Tim Tam. Yeah, definitely have a Tim Tam.

Tommy: So, I mean, there's one thing when you're in Australia and that's Vegemite.

Matt: Oh my God.

Tommy: So I'm going to slide you over that. I actually got something else that is quite Australian. Shapes Vegemite flavour.

Matt: Am I doing Vegemite on Vegemite here?

Tommy: Mate, you're doing Vegemite on a spoon.

Matt: No, you can't do that.

Tommy: Just try it.

Matt: Just give us a little bit. That's not how you're supposed to eat it though, am I right?

Tommy: I don't know, have you had it before?

Matt: Uh, yes, I have had it before.

Tommy: All right, good. So you kind of, uh, give it a sniff.

Matt: I'm getting strong notes of yeast.

Josh: Have you ever— do you normally eat yeast?

Matt: Um, in my bread.

Josh: Show them.

Matt: Um, no, yeah, like, I don't know, as far as I've been told, this is kind of like a, an equivalent, obviously not taste profile-wise, but this is like eating mayonnaise out of a jar. Like you just wouldn't do it. You— It's a spread.

Josh: Speak for yourself.

Tommy: There's a lot of people who would eat that much. Can you show how much you've got?

Matt: That's too much!

Tommy: No no no.

Josh: I mean imagine if it was on the bread.

Matt: Alright... Bro, that's fucking gross.

Josh: Just really roll it. It's salty.

Tommy: Ohh!

Matt: It's like the Vegemite challenge. This is like the new challenge.

Josh: Um, what do you think?

Tommy: Wash it down with a Vegemite um...

Josh: Drinking, drinking some water out of our, um, you don't like that?

Matt: It's like, it's like almost like tastes like gasoline. It's like, it's actually kind of smoky.

Tommy: That's good. That's a good—

Josh: yeah, smoky is good.

Tommy: Not sure.

Josh: And they said that before.

Matt: So these are Vegemite shakes. Yeah, these are a bit easier to take down. Um, yeah, I'm, I'm, uh, I need you guys to eat with me.

Josh: We'll watch it. We'll watch it.

Matt: It feels rude.

Josh: Sorry.

Tommy: Finally.

Matt: So I actually love these. Just like, I don't know, Vegemite. So can you guys explain to me like the appeal of Vegemite and why it hasn't spread? Spread?

Tommy: Yeah.

Matt: Has it had growth?

Tommy: Josh, did you have it as a kid?

Josh: Yeah. So loved it.

Tommy: So I didn't. I'm an Australian that doesn't necessarily like Vegemite. Very specific. It has to be small bit on buttery toast and I love it.

Matt: Just a little bit. Yeah.

Tommy: And then put poached eggs on the toast. That even works too.

Josh: Yeah.

Matt: Just adds a little bit extra. There's a street.

Tommy: I think it's like Vegemite Street or something in Port Melbourne. You drive through Port Melbourne, a little suburb here, smelling the Vegemite being made. Really? And so it is nice. But I mean, the branding, it looks great.

Matt: Yeah, it is beautiful. I mean, they've got a lot going for them.

Tommy: It's iconic and people do love it.

Josh: But did you have Pop-Tarts as a kid?

Tommy: Yeah.

Matt: Yeah.

Tommy: Was that bread for you?

Josh: Like, how often do you— Yeah, that was—

Matt: Yeah, that was our bread. Use that instead of—

Josh: Was it like how common? Was Pop-Tarts as an actual breakfast food?

Matt: Very common. Like, I would have cinnamon Pop-Tarts probably for breakfast every day.

Tommy: Really?

Matt: Wow. Um, probably for a couple years.

Josh: Yeah. There's that, um, new, uh, brand of cereal that everyone's talking about. Like, what is it? That's that, um, yeah, all the podcasts talk about.

Matt: Space Station has it. Uh, Space Station actually owns it. Who is, uh, yeah, they're like my— they help me out with my brand integrations. Is that, um, Um, what is it?

Tommy: Skateboarder dude. Yeah, yeah, fuck, I love that dude. What's it— used to be, um, great on Snapchat.

Josh: But they, um, but, but it's all like high protein and all, like they've sort of made cereal that's not bad for you.

Matt: Yeah.

Josh: Which is interesting. Um, have you had a Caramello Koala before? Nope.

Tommy: Oh yeah, so I guess very Australian because of the koala.

Josh: Caramello Koala.

Tommy: These are—

Josh: these are delicious. These are delicious. Okay. I am so excited. Is this chocolate again? Yes. I'm so excited.

Matt: I like how we're balancing. Yeah, you guys really know how to balance flavor.

Tommy: Wait till the surprise comes from the top.

Josh: Okay, so this is a Caramello Koala. I'll have one as well. I love—

Matt: I do have quite a bit of a sweet tooth.

Tommy: Okay.

Josh: Yeah, perfect. All right. Okay, can you say that word? I love how you say that.

Matt: Caramella. Caramella.

Josh: Caramel.

Matt: Caramel.

Josh: Caramel.

Matt: Caramel. Anthony.

Josh: All right, here we go.

Tommy: So cute little koala looking. Yeah.

Matt: Okay. So what we're seeing right here.

Tommy: Yeah.

Matt: It's just character. I mean, it's a beautiful koala.

Josh: Give it a sniff.

Matt: Mm. Yeah.

Josh: What do you smell?

Matt: Chocolate.

Tommy: It's a real sugar. Smells like sugar.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: Oh, yeah. The caramel.

Matt: Yeah.

Tommy: Is really—

Matt: it's just pouring. Yeah. Drips out of this thing. And this is, um, a well-known— very well, this is like an Easter type thing, or is this like a— okay, it's like an everyday thing. Yeah, like a breakfast thing.

Josh: Um, what do you think?

Matt: Um, you know, it's exactly what you'd expect it to be.

Josh: Oh really?

Matt: I think so. Yeah, yeah, it's, uh, caramel and chocolate together.

Tommy: Is, uh, what do you rate higher, Tim Tam or Caramel, like koala caramel.

Matt: I think obviously it comes down to preference, and for me, I like the crunch.

Josh: Oh, the Tim Tams, like, that is definitely a daily carry.

Matt: This, yeah, daily, everyday carry. Yeah, you don't have so many of these, I think.

Josh: Back to— yeah, yeah, yeah, I think I agree.

Tommy: Um, and, and we've tested it, we could— we've had so many.

Matt: Yeah, a crunch is satisfying in a way that, like, just like a smooth I think you'd like that. How are you going to find that?

Tommy: A chunky Kit Kat that has caramel through it, too.

Josh: Oh, yeah.

Tommy: I think you'd like that if you like caramel. Yeah. Crunch.

Matt: Yeah, that sounds amazing. I think I just got a cavity.

Josh: Really?

Matt: Are you doing—

Tommy: Dental—

Matt: Are dental programmes good here in Australia?

Josh: You'll be fine.

Matt: Okay. You'll be fine. Okay, cool.

Josh: Are you a breakfast guy with going to cafes in Australia?

Tommy: Because that's big here, like going for brekkie.

Josh: Cafe culture.

Tommy: Yeah.

Matt: We haven't. Well, yeah, we've done a little bit. I think honestly, your breakfast sandwiches, like the, you know, eggs and bacon. What do you just call it?

Josh: Like bacon and eggs. Bacon and egg. Bacon and egg.

Matt: You just call it bacon and egg.

Josh: Yeah.

Matt: Let me get a bacon and egg. And it's assumed that it's a sandwich.

Tommy: Because a brekkie roll is a bacon and egg. Yeah. A brekkie roll. B&E.

Matt: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Tommy: Let's have some B&E.

Matt: We would say bacon, egg and cheese, I guess.

Josh: Oh, yeah.

Matt: Okay.

Josh: Yeah, I wouldn't. Can I get a bacon and egg? If you said bacon and egg.

Tommy: Yeah, I say bacon and egg roll.

Matt: A roll.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: I'm a bacon and egg roll.

Josh: What's it been like?

Matt: We've had a few of them and they're very good, by the way. And like the bacon here, it's different.

Josh: Yeah, it's a lot better. The bacon's a lot better.

Tommy: Yeah. It's like, you know, it's actually a slab of meat. It sounds—

Josh: It doesn't—

Tommy: It's not like a slice.

Matt: It's like ham.

Tommy: Yeah. So, yeah, exactly. Like ham because it's not as fatty. In America, it's usually very crunchy and it's just like, it's like a feather.

Matt: The crunchy, like you kind of lose a lot of the flavour then, too. It's just like, yeah, it's super dry.

Josh: Uh, with filming in Sydney, what have you found about filming, uh, in Australia versus LA?

Matt: Um, I think that in Australia, I don't know, it's like, have you been out and about?

Josh: Like, have you actually—

Matt: No, not really. I don't know, you know what, I think early on I found out that like, I think there was this expectation when you're a YouTuber, at least like maybe years ago, that you had to do a vlog and that you had to kind of capture your life and run around and be this kind of personality. And I realise that's not me. And like, I experiment with it and I include those kinds of vloggy type stuff in my video sometimes. But like, I find that I am just much happier when I just kind of plan my videos out and can kind of do what I do at the apartment. Obviously, I think that goes to— there's only so far you can get with it. And I'm seeing something come down.

Josh: Oh yeah, here we go. So, okay, this is the savoury lunch.

Matt: Oh, wow.

Tommy: We are having— Because we're not just pigs that are eating chocolate for lunch.

Josh: Having sausages.

Tommy: Come around, Georgie boy. Sizzle. Come around.

Josh: It's a sausage sizzle.

Matt: Oh, wow. Yeah.

Josh: Can you tell us what a sausage sizzle is? Yeah.

Tommy: Yeah.

Matt: You got a sausage, white bread. It's got to go diagonal across. And then what? You just got a— Oh, yes. I got some onion and then ketchup, mustard.

Josh: Yeah. Would you call this a hot dog in the US?

Tommy: Yeah, that's a good point.

Matt: Well, no, I mean, it actually is a sausage, though, because we do have sausages.

Josh: So, you call this—

Matt: Hot dog is a different kind of meat. Yes. And nobody knows what hot dogs are made of. Yeah, yeah, it's just a medley of meat.

Josh: We don't know what's in this.

Tommy: Well, it says beef on the wrapper, but we'll see. Mate, have one. So, this is a sausage sizzle. We've had a sausage sizzle here at the office today. Lovely.

Matt: And this is beautiful. And this is what I need, actually.

Josh: Picking up the white bread and then—

Tommy: Yeah, yeah.

Matt: For those that are just listening.

Josh: Sausage. Okay. And you've got salt. Would you like onion?

Tommy: Would you like onion or no?

Matt: Yes.

Josh: So, they started— Do you know Bunnings? It's like a It's a shop.

Matt: Thanks, Georgie Boy, by the way. Yeah, thanks. I feel like I didn't say thanks.

Josh: Have you been to Bunnings?

Matt: Uh, yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We got an umbrella from Bunnings.

Josh: Yeah, so, um, Bunnings is a— is like a, um, what do you call it?

Tommy: Home Depot.

Josh: Exactly. And, uh, they always have sausage sizzles on the weekend.

Matt: And they're right, right, right, right, right.

Josh: Yeah.

Matt: Also, I've heard about, uh, Freedom Sausages.

Josh: What's that? Oh, yes.

Matt: Yeah, you don't know what that is? You never voted?

Tommy: Freedom Sausages?

Josh: Yeah, when, when you vote and you, um, there's, there's a sausage sizzle at like the schools and all that sort of thing. I mean, so go postal.

Matt: Um, you don't actually go in person anymore?

Tommy: No, I mean, we don't do it. I mean, when was the last time you voted? I can't even remember.

Matt: I like how you guys don't fuck with plates.

Josh: That's not an Australian thing.

Matt: Yeah, that's how we do it in Australia.

Tommy: Oh, you have nailed that.

Josh: That is so good. Can you hold that up?

Matt: That's a beautiful looking one. I wasn't even sure.

Josh: Right. And so, the onions in at Bunnings, I believe they have to put the onions underneath the sausage because someone—

Matt: There are plates here, by the way.

Josh: They're underneath here. People were apparently slipping on onions at the shop.

Matt: Are you serious?

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: Yeah. Thank you. Oh, Jojo. Can you make me one up, please?

Tommy: Here you go, mate. Yeah, that's good.

Matt: Yeah.

Tommy: Put it on there and pass it over.

Matt: Yeah.

Josh: And just pass it over.

Tommy: I'll just—

Matt: Yeah.

Josh: Pass me the—

Tommy: oh yeah, this is a real team effort here. Thanks, guys. There you go.

Matt: Fine. You clean this table, right?

Tommy: Yeah, no, yeah, no, thank you.

Josh: I'll just take that. Oh, this is great.

Tommy: This is real good.

Matt: Okay, this is perfect. All right, I love how you guys have made 33 sausages. Well, it was— is this like an eating competition?

Tommy: We actually have made that many. There was either get, um, like not enough for 2 each or enough for 2 or 3 each. And so I took the pun.

Matt: That's a smart move.

Tommy: Yeah, I took the pun.

Josh: Yeah.

Matt: You always got to be safe when it comes to food.

Josh: As a kid, I would have 5. That was sort of my go-to number.

Matt: Easy.

Tommy: 5. Yeah. Did you really have the number in your mind? You're like, today I'm having 5.

Josh: You'd have to put it on the, like, so the schools would do sausage sizzles and you'd have to write it on a paper bag and put the money in the bag. And I would say 5. Yeah.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: It's great.

Tommy: Yeah.

Matt: They used to do that. I mean, they would do dollar dogs at baseball games. Don't know if you guys do that at like cricket games.

Tommy: No, no, no. They like to inflate the prices at those events. But there is IKEA. Yeah, that's right. German establishment.

Matt: Yeah.

Tommy: Like a Home Depot vibe. No, it's like a Swedish. Yeah, Swedish. Sorry. And they do, they do $1, $1 hot dogs or $1. Yeah, they are hot dogs. Wouldn't they do meatballs? Meatballs?

Matt: Yeah, definitely Swedish because they're Swedish meatballs.

Tommy: Swedish meatballs. But you'd ask for meatballs if you went to Sweden, wouldn't you? Because I went to France and I asked for French onion soup and— wait, what? Onion soup. It's like an onion soup, right?

Josh: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I get you. At the start of the year, your new doco came out. I was actually looking at it because it came out on the 1st of January. I was refreshing Netflix, because obviously Australia is ahead. Did you have plans like you were going to sit down and watch your own film?

Matt: No, dude, I can't anymore. I noticed that early on and I thought it was something that was wrong with me and it might be, but it was like the first documentary I did. I remember I would do some screenings and I would go, this is, you know, you have to like kind of put yourself in my shoes where I have seen this thing hundreds of times, like through as many times, like, you know, I've recut this film 100 times and then I've gone through every interview so many times. And then by the time you get done with one of these really big projects, you kind of start to hate it. I mean, you go through different emotions where there's parts of it where you really love it and you're really excited when you're making it, and then parts where you hate it. And then I think at the very end you're just kind of over it.

Tommy: You know, I'm— are you numb, like, to feedback? So it's great. What does that do for you? You know, like, I could imagine it's, it's both, like, you're not that happy with it or negative to it just based on the amount put in. Well, you just like remove from it.

Matt: Yeah, I guess it's like similar to you guys where you don't do it because of the, the feedback or the, the output, whatever you get from it. You do it because of the experience of making the thing because you actually enjoy making it. And so like when somebody says, oh, it's amazing, like it changed my life, obviously that means a lot and it really feels good. But like you can't take that with too much weight because then you also take the negative comments with the same amount of weight. And then when somebody says, oh, it sucks, that was the worst thing I ever watched, a waste of money, I'm going to cancel my Netflix subscription.

Josh: How many? Minimalist. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Cut back.

Matt: Yeah. And then, but then, you know, you just, you just have to take each of them and not let it change the reason why you did it to begin with.

Tommy: So, what about the noisier it gets? Because, I mean, it probably is fairly noisy for you. And to, like, I love stopping with one of the videos you made recently and just seeing how you showed the likes that an Instagram post, like, you showed the sort of like, um, analytics of it just on the screen. I stopped it. Of course I did. And I was just like, oh, look, how many did he get? You made a joke about it too, that you weren't just trying to swing your dick.

Matt: Um, yeah, I mean, yeah, if you're gonna swing your dick, you gotta joke joke about it.

Tommy: Exactly, exactly.

Josh: That is such good advice.

Matt: Honestly, dude, is that going to be one of your little cutaways? Bro, this is going to ruin my brand. That's going to be another one.

Tommy: Yeah, no, but what is it? What's the, what's the feeling, babe, as it has got a bit noisier for you?

Matt: Um, I think that like people pick like the different metrics that mean the most to them, and like Instagram is just not that important to me. And so it doesn't affect me one way or another. And like, I think I've gotten good at just kind of distancing myself from overall feedback, like comments and stuff, because it like, it always gets to you. It doesn't matter. Like if you get 1,000 comments on a video and then 10 of them are negative or 100 are negative, that can still get to you no matter of like where you are. You're still like a person at the end of the day. And so like, I try and just to avoid it or I just look at it very early on because usually in the first day or two Uh, it's just the people that like have been watching my videos all along for the past year and like they're always positive and encouraging.

Tommy: If you got the bell on, uh, to get the notification.

Matt: Yeah. And you also like— I'm gonna have another one.

Tommy: He's going to. Yes. You also need—

Matt: you also need feedback though. Like feedback is important because if you're not actually— if you just completely isolate yourself from seeing what people are saying, you can make some crap and, you know, not have any perspective of it. If you kind of like think that you're hot shit and like everything you make is amazing, um, you won't know when you make some duds.

Josh: How different is it, uh, making a Netflix documentary than it is a YouTube video in regards to pro— like, where are the similarities and where is it completely different?

Matt: Uh, tone is different. I think that I— you can get away with a lot more in a YouTube video in terms of like tone and the kind of the jokes that you might make on it. Like, you could talk about swinging your dick in a YouTube video, but then if you made that same joke in a Netflix thing, it would have to almost like The tone would just be completely different. And like, I could just be silly in a YouTube video and it's, it's fine and people think it's funny and they like it, I think, for the most part. Uh, but then if you were to do that in a YouTube video, it would almost like, or no, in a Netflix special or, or, or show, it would almost feel like try hard and like not funny. And like, it almost has to have like, the humour needs to be elevated in a way, at least a little bit.

Tommy: I don't know.

Matt: And obviously the production value is different and you know, you typically have bigger crews.

Josh: He's struggling with the mustard, guys, if you are.

Tommy: Yeah, do we have to call that out?

Josh: Yeah, 3 squeezes.

Matt: I just need to— I felt a lot of pressure because last time you guys were like, what a perfect squeeze.

Tommy: Yeah. Um, so the, the videos you make for YouTube, you're obviously— you've got Final Cut, you need— you, you just say yes, that's good enough to post, or yes, I will post that. When you're doing your Netflix documentary, obviously it has to be seen.

Matt: Yeah.

Tommy: The final version watched before it's uploaded to Netflix, however they do it.

Matt: Yeah.

Tommy: What was that, the time between sending it off and then getting back any feedback or.

Matt: Yeah.

Tommy: What the next step is like.

Matt: So there is a lot of feedback. It was like probably a year process from the first cut to the very last, like just, just around it because it was January 2020, I think, when we finished up our first cut.

Josh: Do you upload it into like a— do you upload it to a special system or you're like panicked about how you like Does it look too cheap if I use Google Drive?

Matt: Netflix has a whole system. Yeah, so they have a whole backend that you like— they have to give you credentials that you log in and then you upload the film. Uh, and then, because I think for them they like to kind of have that feedback and they like to be able to have everything in one place. Because if you think about it, for them it's all about scale, and so they're working with hundreds, thousands of directors and different films. So they want to— they want all the versions.

Josh: Were they even like call sheets? So like, at what time do you— are you entering into that system?

Matt: No, but But like at the end they do— I luckily don't have to do all this stuff. I have amazing producers that were able to handle all those nitty-gritty details of like call sheets and everything like that. But they did ask for all that stuff. And so then we had to submit because they just want documentation for everything. Uh, and I think just, just in case they ever need to go back to something, you know, I think the more data that they have, the better. Um, but it is interesting. I mean, compared to a YouTube video, I don't need to show it to anybody and I don't, I just make it myself. Uh, I edit the video myself and then I I actually now upload it to Google Drive and then I have my brother upload the video who works with me because I don't want to look at YouTube Studio. I don't want to see like the metrics and how they kind of like— it just gets like really— it's like easy to just like go in a downward spiral. And then just like every time, like you get like true anxiety when you log in to upload a video or like say 2 hours after you upload a video, you log in to see how it did because YouTube ranks your last video compared to your previous 9 videos.

Josh: And then imagine how Wei feels.

Matt: But it doesn't matter how many views you get because it's like, it's a comparison to yourself and you cannot always continue to do better and better and better. And so then there's this fear that like, oh, this is it, right? Because we've, I think we've all like seen like people who've built something and then it just falls apart.

Josh: So your brother's saying it. Do you notice tone shifts in him where you've done like, oh, hey man, it's like, oh, I didn't go.

Matt: I guess that wasn't a good video.

Tommy: Has he ever said, uh, yeah, Matt, so I just this bit of it?

Matt: We just, well, we just did recently, uh, we just started doing this recently. It was something that we used to do more, uh, and then obviously like, you know, priorities and things change, but like we just recently, uh, started to do it. But earlier last year he was really the one like uploading everything and like I could tell it was getting to him and like obviously he wasn't the creator behind the video, but he was getting attached to the numbers and he would get like, he'd be like, yeah, like the lucid dreaming video. I mean like obviously like a great video, but just like, it's like 'Really tanking.' And I'm like, 'Thanks, Mark.' And I was— I think, like, he said that to, like, my family. And I was like, 'Well, that's upsetting.' Um, because, you know, you try not to, like, measure, I guess, how well you're doing based upon one video. But it's so easy to get caught up in it. And by the way, that video which was tanking, we changed the title and then it ended up doing better. Really?

Josh: And thumbnails and stuff, like, you hear that people— I've heard some YouTubers say, 'I'm not a filmmaker. I don't make videos, I make thumbnails. Like, really? Yeah, like, like thumbnails apparently are, you know, don't bother making a video unless you know what the thumbnail is going to be.

Matt: I understand why it's important. I think I could see somebody saying don't make a video unless you know what the title is. I think the thumbnail, like, that's kind of ridiculous because like, at least in my experience, you can, you can backtrack it and you can figure out a way. Like, you can make a somewhat generic thumbnail and if the title is good enough, you're okay. —like, but the title also to me represents an idea. It's the elevator pitch for your video. And if you can't boil down the substance of your video into like 40 or 50, 60 characters, then you probably don't have a great video idea. Um, and like, if you're gonna invest a week of time or, you know, 2 weeks, 100 hours of time working on a video, shooting, editing it, planning it, doing all this stuff, you should probably think through like, is this gonna resonate and is it actually gonna do well? Um, because like, You're always balancing the creative artistic aspect and then a financial self-sustaining business aspect to it. So they don't— they're not like by them.

Tommy: Yeah. So, uh, reverse engineer this episode. It's probably the wrong way around. What would you title it? Let's go reverse engineer. Um, swinging, dick swinging. Matt D'Avella's Dick Swinging.

Josh: I think it'd be, uh, Matt D'Avella tries Australian footy or rates Australian food or something.

Matt: Yeah, with like photos. That's actually pretty good. Yeah, I think it's, um, it's so hard with the, uh, podcasts. And I, you know, I had a podcast for— I think you guys now have 10 times as many episodes as I did. I think I stopped there around 100. But I felt like, at least in my world, because it was self-development, the, the most cliché titles like, um, overcoming struggles, like, I don't know, whatever. It was just always like so cliché and self-development focused. I think, yeah, what was that? I hated it.

Tommy: Our episode, um, Imposter Syndrome, that one was fine.

Matt: I think Imposter Syndrome, I think, is okay. But still, like, there were some that I was okay with, but then some of them I was just like, I hated myself because I'm like, these are so corny. But I'm like, I can't— like, I don't want to spend any more time thinking about what this would be titled. I know that it would help, and I kind of like love it. Even like what Joe Rogan does where like he doesn't— yeah, I mean, obviously like somebody like him can get away with it. Um, but where you just like name the episode with the person you're interviewing. Yeah, you know what I mean? Yeah, exactly. But it doesn't work if you're trying to like— I did notice a difference if I named it something, especially when you post it on YouTube. Well, I think so.

Tommy: Maybe the thought is so Joe Rogan's big enough to do that. Is there any misconceptions that you had in your mind, say, 2, 3 years ago about what an audience would do for you as it grows?

Matt: Yeah, I think, I think a lot of people fall into that, that trap or that mistake. I hope my teeth aren't showing because it's just like white bread.

Josh: It really is a wonder. It really is a wonder white bread.

Matt: Yeah. I mean, that's, that's the bread you got to go for, right? Yeah.

Tommy: Yeah. Yeah. The whiter the better. You can't say that. You can't say that about Many things in life.

Matt: Yeah, I think that like, well, when I first started, I really thought that like I kind of modelled what I was doing off of Joe Rogan because I was like, well, it worked for him, right? It'll work for— it'll work for me. And that's not the case with like almost anybody, especially like anybody that's really well known, like a Casey Neistat or Peter McKinnon, Gary Vee. Like they all did something that were different and unique. And that weren't being done at the time. And so like, just even obviously Joe Rogan has the celebrity aspect that obviously helps him, but even if he wasn't a celebrity, it would still be really difficult. Like if you're just going to copy what somebody has already done, yeah, like verbatim, that formula is, it's probably not going to work and you probably have to think of a different angle. And so like uploading just podcast excerpts and then naming them whatever, you know what I mean? You have to actually get a little bit more creative than that and you have to actually find a different path.

Josh: I think you could be just as successful ful not having social media. Why do you have social media in 2021?

Matt: You mean like Instagram and like everything apart from YouTube? Yeah. Um, well, I don't have Facebook. I have Instagram, and that's probably the only one I— I— and I look at Twitter because Twitter is kind of fun too because you can have conversations with people. Didn't you start a TikTok? I did, yeah. That was during COVID It was a really rough time in my life.

Tommy: Everyone did. Yeah, COVID made a lot of people sick and made a lot of people start TikToks.

Matt: Yeah, I think that was when I think, dude, TikTok, Chinese company. I mean, uh, I don't know, coincidence is weird. And that's how conspiracy theories are born. Um, what was the question?

Josh: Uh, did TikTok— social media, social media.

Matt: Um, Instagram, for me, I don't know, like there's something I like about it. I think that obviously Uh, I don't think it hurts to have unless it's really affecting your mental health. And I think that I've actually like really built a really healthy connection with Instagram where I just don't really use it that much and I'll pop in every once in a while and I do get something from it and it is nice to connect with people and like message people in DMs when I have a minute to do it. And then, uh, it is also a helpful promotional tool. I mean, like if I'm like making a course or a digital product or if I want to talk about something, it is an additional microphone to share a message. The same reason why I have a newsletter is to just, um, because you don't want to put all your eggs in one basket. Like, you know, uh, what we've seen with Google Search and Facebook and all the stuff that's happening in Australia right now, like, it just goes to show that— and a lot of these news companies and media companies are being, sign up to our newsletter. Oh yeah, like, they're all scrambling now.

Tommy: And it's actually the main news site says, you don't need Facebook, sign up here.

Matt: Yeah, yeah, exactly. And so like, they're all way behind and they were relying too much on Facebook. And so I think that if from the beginning you just diversify a little bit, and like, of course you're probably not going to be able to, you know, if you get— if you're really popular in one platform like Facebook or YouTube, you're probably not gonna be able to get every single ship up to that level.

Tommy: But it's just making sure that you can keep doing what you're doing if one of them decides to like pull the cord or Yeah, I think it's hard when there's no ships up to any level, and, and that's where the pressure comes because you haven't landed a platform or haven't landed success on one specific platform. Success meaning just a big audience at this point. Um, was the thinking actually different when you hadn't landed the YouTube audience, or?

Matt: I think it was the same as you, you guys, because like when I started Sorry, that really sticks to your teeth. When I started, um, I was doing freelance filmmaking and I was doing, um, part of the freelancing started to become like doing original long-form films like Minimalism. And so since that worked out, I was like, okay, this is a potential path where it's not— it's original content, but I'm like collaborating with other people and I'm making films and like I don't need an audience to be able to do that stuff. And so for me, from the beginning, I had that safety net to go back to. Uh, so I built up a savings. I, you know, I had a nice runway to help me, uh, in case I were to like slip up and, and fail. And like, obviously I did a lot over the, the year and a half that I was like building it. And then I just, I always knew that I could go back to freelance and I knew that like I could, I could go back to the client work that I like really enjoyed doing, which was working with different companies and startups and tech companies. And I'm like, and if it even gets really bad, I could go back to weddings. And I'm like, I didn't mind filming weddings and like, I'm not too good to shoot weddings now if everything fell to shit. And I think it's always good to have that in your back pocket where you're like, there's always that. And then obviously, and then like, yeah, like to have a family support system helps. Like, so then you could like crash on somebody's couch or you can do other ways to save money if things did come to that. And I think like no matter what level you're at, like like, that, that's always there in the back of my head. Like, I mean, because you always— you never— I think you never should really take what you have for granted, and you should be, uh, ready to— that it might be taken away from you at any moment. Um, and then you just have to be ready to go back to filming Bar Mitzvahs.

Josh: Are you thinking about the future? Like, how often are you looking at where you are now and then planning for what's ahead?

Matt: I mean, you know what's funny is like, we talk about like kind of creating runway with content a lot. Like, obviously runway with money is one thing, And then like, I used to get really good at it where I'd be like 4 videos ahead and I would just be able to like really kind of map out what I wanted to do. Uh, lately, uh, especially in like trying to manage my anxiety, cuz like with the views and, and all this stuff that came also a lot of anxiety came from that. And I had like, it was like crazy where it was like, I, I don't know if you guys saw the video where it's literally just called I Have Anxiety. Yeah. Like that was like a ver— like it was really scary and it was like a breakdown where I didn't feel like I had control over myself, and I had no kind of— I had no idea that you could have such physical symptoms from something like anxiety, where I thought that I was like literally being poisoned with carbon monoxide. And like, you started to like lose your mind, and then it just spirals even further. And I think it, it is almost entirely because of YouTube, right? And because of the pressure that I put on myself. And it was pressure I put on myself. And it's like, you have to realise that you have control. You have the ability to step back. And when you feel like you are being forced to do this thing, and when you feel the pressure that you have to always keep doing better and better and better and better, eventually it's going to snap and the pressure is just going to break you.

Josh: So why do you still do it? Like, I guess if I was in your— it's always funny, you always look at other people's positions, right? It's like what you would do.

Tommy: It's crystal clear what I would do.

Josh: Yeah. For Josh. Yeah. Well, I think like So you, you know, you talk about, um, not necessarily going out that much or whatever in Sydney from a filming perspective, or like your space. Like, I would love the idea of being a hermit with like nice nature and all that sort of thing, and like write a book. There's something about like writing or something where it's like you're not having to engage with all of that sort of stuff. You're not doing the social media thing. Have you thought about drastically redesigning your life to be a bit more hermit-y?

Matt: Yeah, Nat and I joke about this all the time, where we're just like, "I'm gonna fucking retire. This is actually like a nightmare. This is awful." Um, and we go through phases of that. So, what do you mean? That's not the everyday, though, and that's not like the every moment of the day. It's like... It usually happens later in the day. It happens maybe in the middle of a really big project, like a film or like a course, where I'm just like, "Oh my god, this is..." This is so much freaking work. And like, part of it is just resistance to this project and feeling kind of overwhelmed by it. Um, but then the other part of it is that like, I am asking too much of myself. And you guys have done a great job of like bringing on other people to like help you make what you do. And I think that's something that I'm trying to get better at, realising that I just can't do everything myself. And so I think I just love it too much. Like I really, at the end of the day, At the end of the day, I really love making videos. I love the process of it. And I know I've taken breaks before.

Josh: And how do you feel when you do that?

Matt: I'm just like so ready to get back to it because I really love doing it.

Josh: What does Nat say in the moment, like when you're having one of these moments? Oh, she's usually breaking down with me because, like, you know, she— Sympathy breakdown. Yeah.

Matt: Contact breakdown. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Urge to cry more. Yeah, exactly. But I mean, because she does— she's got a pretty demanding schedule herself working with agencies and while it's freelance and her life is so much better than it was because she now can take one day off a week to work on personal stuff and she doesn't have to work on weekends where when you have a full-time job, it's expected of you that you're gonna do everything you can for this company. But now that she's freelance, she's like, no, actually I'm just done on Friday. Mm-hmm. Uh, but still even with that agency world is very demanding. Um, and so she, yeah, she, she has an equally tough time. I wouldn't say either of us have, uh, I, I would say the pressure is, is pretty close. Uh, uh, mine might be a little bit worse.

Tommy: Uh, just Being so public-facing, is it, um, I mean, you kind of mentioned that it's self-inflicted, that pressure. It is, yeah. Because you could then— is it cathartic to say that to yourself, like, well, I'm just fucking doing this to myself? Does that relieve anything for you? Yeah, a little bit, but it—

Matt: but that's kind of close. That's kind of, uh, similar to being like, like, well, have you just tried not worrying about it?

Tommy: Yeah, yeah. But so in the, in the context of of, um, if you were to think about you go and work for somebody else. Yeah. There would be still pressures on that role, but then is there light that comes from, I've created this, so it's self-imposed pressure, but it's, it's come from something that you've created. Like, do you go, how do you navigate out of it? Do you use any of that as a strategy to actually get yourself to feel any better?

Matt: No, I think that if I were actually working a full-time job, I think that I'm I'm just predisposed to it. My personality type is to be a bit of a perfectionist and like really, um, obsessive over the work that I do. And also I think it obviously comes from like really enjoying and like getting a lot of fulfilment out of it. Mm-hmm. But then you have to like, you set up these boundaries to make sure you don't, uh, you know, overcommit to it. And I think that was one of the reasons, um, you know, like we talked about earlier, having my brother upload videos for me on my behalf. So then I just can completely tap out and be like, I don't wanna see the metrics. Mm-hmm. And, um, and so that kind of stuff helps. Like, that's a boundary for me that I can now set that it doesn't affect me as much. And like, I don't worry as much. Like, we uploaded a video earlier this morning and I haven't like looked at the metrics or any of the views. And killing it. It's, uh, it's like, it's like an itch that you want to scratch. No, it's actually, uh, to be honest, and I think, can we do a live reaction to what it's got right now on the channel? You just see the The sweat started to bead down my face.

Tommy: Um, can I have another Tim? But the thing is like, I know, but Matt would say, I'll give you some more.

Matt: Actually, Tim, do you want a Tim?

Tommy: I would actually like one. I didn't have one before.

Matt: Yeah, I have one. Here you go. Um, I think that the, yeah, this is kind of to the point of, um, what we did with our original video on the YouTube channel, the 3-year rule. And obviously we're working on a follow-up now that we're shooting today. And it's like, when you just look at the metrics for one video for one day, you know, it's just kind of crazy to look and put so much pressure on that one moment. And I think that's what's crazy about being an online content creator. And obviously there's other jobs that have similar kind of like metrics in terms of like performance. Even a musician, you know, I mean, they have a lot of pressure just for that one album that they release. Uh, but then every single week to be being like, was this a good week or not based upon the amount of views that I got? And it's just so arbitrary in the long run. Do you actually—

Josh: do you realise that you connect like, are you connecting your emotional state to those things? Like, I find that sometimes I'll think about my emotional state and it would be connected with how the podcast episode was that day. Currently eating Tim Tams. Emotional— connecting emotional state to the video stuff. Have you picked up on that where it's like you've actually been, been in a shitty mood and then you've realized, oh fuck, it's connected to the video that came out? Mm.

Matt: Yeah, I think that happens. And I think it's interesting because like sometimes Nat and I notice that with fights. And I think like the one best thing you can do, one of the best things you can do to kind of improve your relationships are to really try to become more self-aware.

Josh: I thought you were going to say delete YouTube Studio off your phone.

Tommy: Yeah, yeah. That probably has saved a marriage.

Matt: Just stop listening to your wife.

Josh: Imagine couples that have YouTube channels like the fighting, you know, I mean, it's good content maybe. Yeah, yeah, I told you not to use that title.

Matt: Yeah, yeah, that would be fucking brutal. Um, but the— it's like building self-awareness around how you are responding and how— because you might find yourself later in like the day at some point getting into a fight with your partner and just being like, like, that came out of nowhere. But then if you really look back, you're like, oh wait, it actually started in the morning because like I was annoying Nat and asking her where my shoes were because I lost them. And then she was frustrated because she was trying to get ready for work. And then it builds up to all these things throughout the day. And I think that if you start to reflect on that and be self-aware about those instances when you're, you know, feeling those things in a similar way to when you were saying like just getting anxious about a video and not realising why you're anxious, um, I think that that, that can certainly help you to figure out what the source of the problem is.

Tommy: I mean, there's lots of opportunities for everyone, but I think maybe it's just in my mind thinking about you and the opportunities you have from what you've created. Like I just thought, like, imagine if Matt D'Avella, I'm quitting YouTube for 6 months to just do wedding videos and you book them up and you get a Matt D'Avella style wedding video. Like, I'm sure you'd sell it out. You'd sell it out.

Matt: Yeah, that's a great idea. You'd sell it out.

Tommy: But so that's just one idea that came to mind as you were speaking. Um, are you, uh, sort of, uh, do you romanticise with ideas, or are you pretty focused on what you've got and what you've created?

Matt: I wish I remember the YouTuber's name. Maybe I'll look it up right now because he'd made a video called, um, My YouTube Escape Plan. Oh, that's— I like that. Yeah. And kind of like, is there a bunch of those now?

Tommy: Uh, maybe.

Matt: I don't even know how big it was. Um, Is it? Oh, no, no, no, no. It wasn't even Escape Plan. It was Exit, like his exit strategy. Kind of like a startup would have an exit strategy.

Tommy: Well, a lot of people say you need an exit strategy for any business you're creating. Yeah, yeah.

Matt: Think about it. It's not even popping up. It's not popping up. It's because I'm getting the Australia algorithm. Yeah, yeah.

Tommy: But anyway, blame it on the Aussies again.

Matt: There he is. It's Jake Roper. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. The video is called My Exit and My YouTube Exit Strategy. I think that's not a terribly unhealthy way to look at it because of how demanding YouTube is. Mm-hmm. I think obviously there is another solution, which is what I'm actually doing now, because I used to do a video every single week and now I've scaled back to a video every other week. I think it's just managing the amount of work that you do and saying like, okay, I can't do everything, so I'm just going to really pull it back. Yeah, for me it helped actually having other YouTube creator friends that I chat with and we speak regularly. And just like having all of us go through the same thing and realising that none of us were doing anything to change it. And I was like, I just got to do— I just got to scale back on it.

Tommy: It's UI. Sorry, why? I— what's— YouTube is YouTube.

Matt: YouTubers Anonymous. Yeah, but it is like the YouTube exit strategy to me is not like a bad idea, but I think what it also could do is like it doesn't necessarily mean that you have to be like, my YouTube exit strategy, I'm going to do blah, blah, blah. And then in 2 years I'm going to quit. Uh, but it could mean, do you have a strategy for when you no longer want to make YouTube videos? Like, how do you transition out of something that you maybe became dependent upon for a living and for fulfillment?

Josh: You have a Slack channel where a bunch of, um, YouTube, you know, big YouTube creators, uh, chat. Do you find that there's sort of a, um, a common road that you all go through? Like, I can imagine you being doing it for the amount of time you have versus someone else do you feel the pressure of the, uh, the, the young creator coming in and like doing, you know, it's like, um, Ali Abdaal or whatever producing fucking like 15 videos a week. Yeah, and he's a doctor. Slow down. Like, do you feel that, um, that pressure, or how do you sort of reconcile it?

Matt: I think that is probably one of the strongest pulls, to feel like you're not creating enough. When you see everybody else doing so much. Ali's amazing and he's brilliant and he has something that a lot of people don't have, which is just like— He's just— He's like super smart and I'm like an idiot and it takes me a lot longer to like make my videos and it takes most people a really long time to make videos. There's also some people like Peter McKinnon who is amazing as well, naturally on camera. Um, but he's an editor and so like he can just shoot a video in a day and then pop the footage over to his editor. And then like, that's all the time it takes him to make a video. I'm not, I don't know his process too much and I don't know if that's, I'm sure every video is a little bit different, but from what I'm aware, that's, that's part of his process, uh, for some videos. But for me, that's just never gonna happen. And I also really love editing. Yeah. And so I don't wanna give that up. And so I think you have to, again, go back to, we were just talking earlier and before the podcast about how like everybody— success is different for everybody, and like your output is going to be totally different from somebody else's. And so don't compare yourself to other people because it's completely arbitrary and has nothing to do with your own happiness.

Josh: Every other week, doing it, changing up a schedule— are you halving? If you halve the amount of videos you do in a year, are you halving your revenue? Um, maybe.

Matt: It depends, like, right? Like I think with having the amount of videos I do, it forces me to kind of do like a little promotion or something in every video, whether it's for a course I'm selling or for my, uh, for an integration. Uh, I have actually like this year, last year I probably did like 20 to probably 30 integrations, which is like a brand that pays to like have me talk about them in a video. Yeah. And so obviously I, I just, for me personally, it's not obvious, but for me it's just like, it's a a product or a company that I use and I get value from. And so this year I just decided to do one a month with Squarespace. And so I've cut it down by like half to a third. And so obviously that's half to a third less revenue through integrations. And then with views, obviously you get through Google AdSense. And so that would probably be half there. But it depends because then if I, if I do like, if I push a course in a video, it may actually be more money than in integration. Uh, we're experimenting and I'm like trying different things and like, we'll see how it goes. But the one thing I was gonna experiment with, like, is even the open-closed enrolment for courses, because I was hesitant to do it for a while cuz it feels like a tactic.

Josh: What does that look like? What does that mean?

Matt: Sorry. So, right. Yeah. Yeah. Um, if you have open enrolment for a course, it's open all the time. But if you do open-closed, it means that it's only open for 2 weeks outta the year. Mm-hmm. Or 4 weeks, whatever. And then you set this kind of finite time. And so it incentivizes people to buy the course because they're like, well, if I don't buy it now, then I'm not going to be able to be enrolled in it. And so that's where it kind of feels like a tactic for some people. And it turned me off a little bit. But then there's also this idea where I don't have to sell all year. Yeah, every video I don't have to. I hate selling shit and I hate like in my videos like it. I thought it'd be easier selling my own shit, but it's actually way harder because it's like, hey, buy this thing that I made versus Uh, Squarespace is actually really great, by the way. They're the sponsor of this integration. Yeah. You know what I mean?

Tommy: It's just like Tim Dams and, um, Caramello Koalas.

Josh: Yeah.

Matt: But it's just, you know what I mean? It's easier to like, like say something about somebody else. Like, yeah. Like Josh is really smart. Yeah. Like I would, if I said like, hey guys, I, my, I'm really smart and what I made is really good. Like, it just felt good.

Josh: It felt really good.

Matt: I don't think people are gonna buy it.

Tommy: I'm cutting the amount of videos in half. Have you actually cut the workload in half? Because it can be a trap to then have more time to actually—

Matt: Somebody said that, I think, uh, I forget who said it, but they were like, oh, now that you're doing half the videos, are you putting more work into each video? And I'm like, that defeats the purpose.

Tommy: Yeah, yeah, but I think that's the trap. I wouldn't say— I'd say it is the mistake if you were spending double the time, but it's easy to do, right?

Matt: Yeah, no, I mean, uh, I know that you guys, uh, talked about slow growth on here, and I really appreciate the kind words.

Josh: You saw the The uptick.

Matt: Yeah, I got that little bump, baby. I noticed.

Josh: Did you tell Nat I'm buying dinner tonight? The boys just gave me a plug.

Matt: Yeah. I forget, Nat actually might have even been the one that shared it because obviously she was a big part of Slow Growth and I think she saw you guys talk about it in an Instagram post. But yeah, it was— I mean, that's something that I've been like really passionate about and haven't been able to work on it towards the end of last year because of the film. And so I've been really focusing on that. So basically half of my time is on this course platform slash, you know, social media account. And then the other one is really dedicated to just YouTube videos. So it's nice to have something.

Tommy: If you didn't have anything to allocate that time to, maybe that's the trap.

Matt: I think I need to— I don't know about you guys, but like, you got to stay busy, right? You got to like have something that fills your days. Like, you just be so empty and lonely and like, I don't know, you just need to like do something. I don't even know. Like, like, like reading books and like even like travelling when we could. I don't know if I'd be fulfilled by that.

Josh: Yeah. So, uh, you're like the minimalism guy. You've done a lot in the space. FIRE— financially independent retire early— like, how much do you sort of gravitate towards that idea? Because there's a lot of similarities.

Matt: And correct me if I'm wrong, but I think a lot of people that follow that movement And I might be way off, but like, are they— a lot of them are like, I want to have the option to retire early. Yeah. And so like, maybe I'll work half days.

Josh: Yeah. It's like giving you the option to do whatever you want with your time. Yeah.

Matt: And so you might still continue to work. Yeah. But you have enough money that you have the, you know, the financial security forever. I love that. And I think it's amazing. I think that's what everybody should be working towards, to be able to have that freedom and flexibility to do what you want to do and pursue your interests to make a full-time living. Are you there?

Josh: Would you say that you are? If you looked at what FIRE was about, which is being in a position where you could, uh, do what you want, are you in that position and are you executing on it? Uh, I think pretty—

Matt: getting pretty close to that position. Uh, like, I, you know, I started out with 6 figures of student debt and I got—

Tommy: I paid that off in Now they owe you money, right?

Matt: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I wish it worked like that. Yeah, yeah. And so then, yeah, I paid it off in like 4 years of just doing freelance filmmaking. And then I started investing in my 401, which is my like superannuation. And so I've been investing in my retirement account for years, and that's built up to the point now where I could actually stop investing in it and I would still have enough money to retire. Uh, if it got 10% return, which is likely to happen. Um, but that's to say, like, that doesn't, you know, count the revenue that you need and the income that you need over the next 40 years until retirement, or 30 years. Uh, also, I just don't even— I don't see myself retiring. Yeah, I don't know. Do you guys, like, see yourself actually—

Josh: I think it's like not having the stress, like financial stress. I think that I definitely see that as something like, and that's part of the FIRE movement, I guess.

Tommy: It's where the stress would be. So you might have stress in a certain area of your life that, like, that is just a byproduct of something that's hard to eradicate. So then you'd move— say if you all of a sudden had all this money, you might put pressure on yourself in another area to create something.

Josh: It's like optionality. I think that's what I like it. Do you think Like, say with, um, look at Bitcoin or GameStop or all that. Like, it seems especially with things like Robinhood, all of a sudden everyone's, you know, gambling on the stock market or having a crack.

Matt: Yeah, I think gambling is a great word for it.

Josh: Yeah. And, um, is it enticing when you're doing okay and you have that cash in the bank to be able to, you know, fall into the trap of maybe like, you know, you've got money I'm gonna do this or that, or, you know, throw it into some of these, these types of things?

Matt: No, I think because I've, I've probably consumed enough financial, uh, advice and literature over the years that I know that you wouldn't want, want to put a significant percentage of your savings into something that risky. Um, I mean, like, I've thought about, like, I'm like, oh, maybe I'll put in like a few thousand bucks into like one of these like risky investment things just fun, but I just don't see it being— it's just not worth my time. And I'm like, I'm very boring when it comes to like my finances. And I think that's probably a good thing. And I think also like just having like the foundation of minimalism and simple living and, and not wanting things that I don't have, I think is really helpful because if you're always chasing the next thing, like even if you get to the point where you could financially like retire, than you might be, well, I could actually get a bigger house if I worked a little bit harder. Yeah. And I don't think we really— we don't really have that. It's like the lucky enough to be able to do what we love and not really have to worry about the money aspect of it. Amen.

Josh: Can you access your 401k early? So like superannuation? Yeah, so superannuation in Australia, it's like it is, um, mandatory by employers. How much? What's it? 9%. Going up slightly. of every employee's pay goes into super, which is like the 401.

Tommy: Access it after 55. Yes.

Josh: So, yeah, you have to wait until you turn— Is it—

Tommy: I think it's 65. Yeah, 65.

Josh: 65. Yeah. After 65.

Tommy: I'll be retiring at 55.

Josh: And so, is that a— Like, do most Americans, would they have— Like, say for you, was it 401 and then having another investing thing? That you can then access sooner, or is it all about just like investing long term?

Matt: I think that the, you know, depends how much money you save, but obviously like apart from a 401k, you might invest in real estate. And I think that's probably like the one area where unless, unless you live in like a small rural town somewhere, like how can anybody achieve FIRE if they actually want to buy a house?

Tommy: And like, it's— I want to move to Vermont.

Matt: Have you been looking into housing prices?

Josh: Have you been there?

Matt: I guess it's just syrup prices. Have you been there? Uh, no, I have not been to Vermont. Okay.

Josh: Yeah, looks beautiful.

Matt: Uh, Bernie Sanders, that's his, uh, yes.

Tommy: And so, um, little white men. Yeah, it has the—

Josh: yeah, it's got like 95% white people.

Matt: Really? Wow. Which isn't like a—

Josh: it's not the selling point for Josh. It's syrup.

Tommy: Yeah, he's more of a syrup guy than a rice guy. Yeah, it's a stat that they wish you didn't repeat.

Josh: I literally, in that moment, I thought Vermont's gonna hate this.

Matt: The Tourism Board, you're not gonna get them for a sponsor.

Josh: They've got great socks. Uh, Darn Tough socks are my favourite socks.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: Um, and so yeah, on the real estate thing, I feel like there was a time where you were looking at buying, or like it was at least on the cards.

Matt: We look at it, but then like it's just so depressing. It's the same thing, I think, when you're looking to rent. Uh, you think you have a budget going into it, and then you're like, oh my God, like there, there are no windows in this house and it cost a million dollars. And you're like, okay, wow, I guess 1.5. And then, uh, it's just, I, I would find it so hard to, to kind of make that kind of investment and spend that much money on a house and then get in that much in debt when it took me so long to get out of debt.

Josh: What about saying like family? Because your sister had a place in, was it Joshua Tree? Or like seeing other people own and do all that sort of thing? Like, would you do the whole destinationy sort of thing? Like the you know, a cheap place in the middle of some sort of rural area.

Matt: Maybe. I mean, listen, if like somebody's going to do it as a financial investment, you know, if like you have that kind of money where you're like, all right, yeah, like I'll throw money into a property here or there, then, then that might be worth it. I don't know if I would do that. I think it's kind of silly to buy a house that you wouldn't actually live in because there is so much that goes with it. You know what I mean? And like, that's the one thing that I've seen from so many homeowners that I know is that it's just like, it's way more work than you think.

Tommy: Yeah, well, even rich people don't own homes.

Matt: Yes, that's true. Yeah, because they buy it out of all these joints. Yeah, and they buy outside of their means too, though, where they're always renting. I mean, if you buy a— I mean, some of these people, dude, they buy like $20, $30 million houses, and that to me just seems so wasteful as well. Yeah, you know, I'm like, Jesus, like, park in cash.

Tommy: You might have the money. I'm sure there's a bunch of rich people that just like, I'll put it over there. Yeah, fuck it, sits in that house.

Matt: Yeah, and they don't even Yeah, the Australian narrative. It's also hard to judge people that are rich for making decisions about the money that they've made themselves. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But yeah, but it's fun. Yeah, but it feels right, doesn't it? It does, it does.

Josh: Yeah. Matt D'Avella, thank you for coming on The Daily Talk Show.

Tommy: This was a joy. So it's great to have you in our studio. We've done podcasts from two of your houses. Yeah.

Matt: That you own. No, never. Two of your rentals.

Tommy: We did one in the parking lot in, um, LA. Where was that?

Matt: Was, um, in Venice. Yeah, that was fun. It's just good to be in person with people.

Josh: It is nice. Yeah, it feels like a real novelty. It was beautiful. Yeah, yeah.

Matt: Maybe we'll take a nap together later.

Tommy: Yeah, I mean, that white bread's fucking with me. Just sliding down.

Josh: It's a daily talk show. Have a good one, guys.

Matt: See you guys. Bye.