Our Community Of Gronks Feeling Disconnected

Tommy: It's a very low barrier to get into the Gronk Squad. That's crazy.

Josh: We've committed to do The Daily Talk Show for 10 years.

Tommy: Hi guys. Hi guys.

Josh: Put it in the calendar. I just like to cheque the temperature in the room. I told you my squeegee story.

Tommy: It is outrageous.

Josh: Come on, let's go. It's The Daily Talk Show, episode 966.

Tommy: What is happening? What is going on?

Josh: The thing with doing a podcast daily, yeah, you really like— I don't— you feel like, um, Before the podcast, you weren't necessarily, you didn't have to worry about how you're feeling. But when you've got a podcast, all of a sudden you have to be like, you're turning on the mic every single day.

Tommy: I guess it's like if you, not that there's anyone else here, but it like walking out, if you had to like, if you woke up and then you walked out and there was a bunch of people there, that's the vibe where you kind of feel like you're checking yourself because of the external people that are going to be seeing you. Yeah. And so I get that vibe. That's a weird one because there's no one here. It's just you and I. But it's also how people will perceive what we're saying. Yeah.

Josh: Yeah. Or not even that. I mean, like, the guy that brings this up is obviously feeling fucking sorry. Oh no, I could not be fucked. Oh, that's great. Yeah.

Tommy: No, that's the grind, my son.

Josh: So, but what I thought is how can I turn it into an opportunity for all of us?. And so what I thought I would do is I was like, how you need to be reminded why you're doing these things. And so what I did was I went back and looked at what we were doing 3 years ago on, on the Daily Talk Show.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: So that was episode 29. Fuck.

Tommy: Yeah. So, go on.

Josh: 2018, February 23. So, it's February 24 today. But this was like with the, you know, fucking how dates work and shit. And we do 5 days. So, it's the 23rd. So, I could pull the 23rd of Feb. So, this is 3 years ago, 3 years and 1 day ago. Wow.

Tommy: And so, Bodhi had just turned 1.

Josh: Yeah. We were doing audio only.

Tommy: And we're only 23 episodes in.

Josh: 29 episodes in.

Tommy: Sorry, 29 episodes in.

Josh: Yeah. Okay.

Tommy: Here.

Josh: Are you ready for it? Uh, here we go. Here is the, uh, the audio.

Tommy: It is the Daily Talk Show, TJ, episode 29.

Josh: Yeah, boy.

Tommy: Yeah, nearly at 30. This is, uh, thanks for sticking in if you've listened, if you've been listening the whole time. All right, mate, it's a bit early for that. Sorry, actually, I was making jokes before. Josh presented me with this cute— is this, is it a toy from your childhood?

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: So Josh showed me this toy and he said, mate, Bodhi might love this. And he opened it and it's like a— it basically looks like a recorder but like different pieces so you can put things in. It's a music— it's a musical instrument. Yeah. And my response was, have you put that up your ass too?

Josh: If you haven't listened to episode 14— fuck, why do we remember the episode?

Tommy: Because you said it.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: And then I now know it's episode 14, so go back and cheque that one out.

Josh: No, but that's good. Yeah, that was early days. That was me as a kid.

Tommy: Mate, I, um, went to the office before coming here to do this podcast to pick up a light for you.

Josh: And nothing's changed.

Tommy: There's a reason I had to pick up a light, because you're borrowing my light.

Josh: Yeah, thank you.

Tommy: Because someone lent your light, which is the same one as the one you're borrowing.

Josh: So I lent someone— yeah, my light.

Tommy: Yes. So yeah, this is a classic case of You lend something out to a mate.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: And they don't fucking give it back to you for ages.

Josh: But it's one of those things where I know it's my doing. It's that whole—

Tommy: Why is it your doing?

Josh: Well, it's the expectation. I should have said, I— So, the learning is—

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: Because it's not their fault at all. Like, and the thing is, I want it— Like, it was because that I care about him and I want him to do stuff. So, I'm like, here you go.

Tommy: I mean, it sounds like we're on a record player and you kind of just like got your finger on it going slightly faster. Not that we're talking that fast, but it seems like we're like a little bit, yeah, a little bit higher in our voice. Like there's something going on.

Josh: Just younger.

Tommy: Yeah, that maybe what we're hearing is youth.

Josh: But I think that, yeah, I thought that was a fun, a fun exercise.

Tommy: So, I reckon I've just thrown out that toy.

Josh: Oh, that's so hurtful. It was a kazoo.

Tommy: Yeah, Bodhi would go around and there was a period of time he started, uh, doing Do You Know This Tune? I'll do it.

Josh: You don't know it? It's some sort of sci-fi thing.

Tommy: Yeah, yeah, yeah, you're on this.

Josh: Star Wars?

Tommy: Yes, got it.

Josh: Well done.

Tommy: And you've never seen it? No, I've only seen a little bit of it, but, um, yeah, we sounded Yeah, very strange.

Josh: I'll tell you another thing I was thinking about. I was thinking about on the— I haven't been walking and I've been driving, which is not good.

Tommy: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I had a busy week. Yeah, they need to be on.

Josh: Yeah, yeah. So, sip from our cups.

Tommy: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I feel like something big's about to be dropped.

Josh: No, no, no. Yeah, that's the nervous sip. No, I was thinking about— No, like, we haven't spoken about this, so I'd like to get you to reconcile and tell me if I'm just being really negative.

Tommy: Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Josh: All right. He's got his arms crossed.

Tommy: I was a bit cold, though. Yeah. Okay.

Josh: Body language necessary.

Tommy: Generally isn't always an indication of what's going on.

Josh: So, we got lovely emails from people, a lot of messages. Everyone's saying, you know what, thank you for explaining it.

Tommy: Yeah. Which was what the changes that have happened to The Daily Talk Show where Mr. 97's gone, etc., etc.

Josh: Yes. But the thing that I think that I unconsciously, so I was like, this is so lovely. I think the, I don't know whether it's because Naturally, you always go to the negative thing. But everyone started the email the same way.

Tommy: Yeah, I did gauge that.

Josh: Which was, yeah, I'd sort of, you know, confused and annoyed and, you know, I'd sort of gone off you or what, like that sort of language.

Tommy: I was feeling disconnected.

Josh: I was feeling disconnected. Yeah.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: And so, yeah, I don't know, like, I think that unconsciously I've been thinking about that and there's like, I'm grappling with this idea. Of, you know, you have a community of listeners. Grateful that they listen. But then also this weird thing that you can be living your life and you don't know it, but you've got like a bunch of people with their arms crossed being like, fucking Tommy and Josh have fucked things. I'm not happy.

Tommy: Yeah, I guess that's the— Because you're not face to face. I'm sure these people, if you were like, if their mate was doing this, they would probably mention it.

Josh: So is listening. So I guess part of it is we have like the Discord. I think we shut down the Discord, not because from a community perspective I don't want us communicating, but unless we're in there, unless we're actively in there, it sort of feels like, like Bree will say, oh, people are writing in the Discord or whatever. And we'd sort of spoken when we were burnt out last year. It's like, do survival mode, do whatever you've got to do to survive as a team. Yeah. And part of that was not having so much stimulus.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: But I think that there is something in the email thing. Like, I think that the spending the time to email, I think is powerful. And so, part of it is, so, if there's an expectation around that we show up every day or, you know, if there's an expectation, is it fair if I project an expectation on listeners? Um, but, but so if I said it, Gronkhs, so if I said it, Gronkhs, like, to like, let's, let's email, let's, or like email us or whatever, because I think that that's become a manageable thing now where it's like we can read out on the show. And I think we've gotten into a good cadence of being able to bring that up.

Tommy: But where is it not manageable? Through those other areas?

Josh: Yeah, no, no. Yeah, I think it's just like, you know, but I don't think that because it's been so fragmented It's because that we had Discord, we had DM.

Tommy: Like, there was a couple of questions there. One of them was, is it like if they have expectations on you, you can have expectations on them?

Josh: Yeah, no. Well, so I guess the thing is that I, I have— so the email surprised me based on people having expectations of us around all of these things, but I hadn't necessarily— like, I feel like that is an unconscious agreement that we've come to, right? And so part of it is we don't actually, other than listening, we don't ask anything of the community.

Tommy: And so we've always, we've always served our own promise.

Josh: But I think that people like Gronks have heard that and that's like that promise has become way more. And we get lovely— Nathan sent a lovely email and it's saying, you know, like through all these times we've been there.

Tommy: Yeah. Um, same with Kroger. Kroger sent one through. And so, but you're right, they are all very similar in that. Amy said something very interesting to me, which I sort of pondered on.

Josh: Has he got something for you? It's how sexy you are.

Tommy: Nah, nah, nah, never forget. I forgot to put it on today. Oh no, didn't get the comment. Damn it.

Josh: Um, uh, so you're going to bed?

Tommy: Yes, I'm going to bed. She said What if, what if the disconnection is actually the new version of you guys that then connects with more? Which it was just another way to spin it.

Josh: Yeah. Well, so, yeah, I think like, yeah. So, the thing that we take away from it is that we listen to what people are saying and we think about it and we ponder it. It's like, why are we doing this? What's the, you know, what's the goal? Um, and yeah, I guess there is a version of, um, yeah, like I've, I've had Gronks DM me personally, frustrated, like angry at me, like message, like in an anger. And I'm always like, I get surprised by that sort of thing because I'm like, um, there's expectations or whatever that have been set which You know, is that our doing? But do we, do we expect that? I don't think I've ever expected that from, uh, any, anyone that I've listened to. Well, I was a fan of Hamish and Andy, like, listening to that. It wasn't like I was sort of expecting these things. But then, to Ian's point, Ian sent a—

Tommy: like, you could actually just call Hamish and say, mate, what's happening?

Josh: I just text him ideas. But to Ian's point, it's like, you know, we you create a family.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: Vibe. Now, not to be heartless about it, but I was thinking of Adam Grant, the organisational psychologist. He actually just came out with a new book.

Tommy: Oh, what is it?

Josh: It's called Think Again, I think it is. Adam Grant.

Tommy: Think Again.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: Amy loves Adam Grant.

Josh: He's awesome. Beautiful smile he has.

Tommy: Like as in—

Josh: Think Again.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: So, he's got— What does that mean?

Tommy: It sounded like you articulated it like that's another book he's got.

Josh: He has a smile. Yeah. A beautiful smile. So, he wrote Originals as well, Give and Take. But yeah, his latest book is Think Again. But he had a quote. Also, he does these tweets that he screen grabs or whatever, puts on Instagram, and one of them was around the businesses, when you have a team, you shouldn't look at it like a family.

Tommy: I've heard this before.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: And why is that?

Josh: I'm trying to— I'll find the specific quote, but he talks about like another way of framing these things. Yeah.

Tommy: Well, you can see how it could be used as an excuse for the business to almost have some manipulation over individuals.

Josh: So here we go. So this is Adam, he tweeted this on December 12, 2020. The rhetoric about a company being a family is not realistic. Parents don't fire or furlough their children to cut costs. Leaders would be better off calling their company a community, a place where people feel a sense of belonging and care about one another, which I think is interesting. And so there's an element of the, the family thing That's almost what we— with Friday Night Drinks, we sort of created this vibe where it's, you know, a family. But the other thing, the reason why these conversations are hard is because I'm sure that there's nothing more disconnecting than having someone speak in this way. Like, I think if a mate was saying, look—

Tommy: Yeah, yeah, I know what you mean. But usually because it's all the stuff that's not spoken about. We didn't speak about how we wanted people to feel about what we were doing. So, all that stuff is like, it's just, it is what it is. Like, it's just a byproduct of being part of the community.

Josh: But what about like from a boundaries perspective? So, if you look at how I live my life, the relationships I have, the friendships I have, it's really hard because like I almost feel like with the daily talk show, we don't have those boundaries, or it's very hard. Like, if you look at how I am normally and then you see Friday night drinks and all that, I'm not going out with my fucking best mate. Yeah, I don't do that.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: And so even doing that, I think that through that process, part of the reason of, you know, if you didn't know, we did sort of, you know, 10 weeks of Friday night drinks, and it was fun, but there was definitely an element where I realised that I was like foregoing part of my own self or comfortability or values or what I care about for everyone else, which was fine over a period of time. But then—

Tommy: Yeah, but it always— it can lead to a blowup, which it did.

Josh: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Tommy: DJ Precious in the house. That was funny.

Josh: Yeah, it is all funny and dumb. It is. That's the whole thing.

Tommy: Like, that's why I've said, all right, my nose is out of joint.

Josh: About what?

Tommy: It's so silly. It's all so silly. But that's the— that is the beauty of life, that we can have one thing that we think is everything and the next minute realise it's silly. Or just take the energy out of it by just shifting a pattern of thinking, which is crazy.

Josh: So, part of it. So, if we're really to undo the layers, so, if you think about we did the we had that conversation. We did it. We, you know, went really honest, as honest as we could be with it. Yeah. Was it on Monday? Yeah, I think I remember what it was.

Tommy: What day is it?

Josh: Yes, it was Monday.

Tommy: Feels like midnight.

Josh: But the thing is, so that was like, there is a lesson there because everyone that had the problems, anyone that like, no one reached out to us from January, from January to February. We've, you know, we've done a bunch of shows. And they were like, no one contacted us about that.

Tommy: Which I think there could be, uh, it's a permission thing. It's a— not that we said, hey, email us, or maybe we did in the episode, but it's like us being raw is like a moment for people to say, yeah, I saw that. I saw that.

Josh: Is there a—

Tommy: you are now explaining.

Josh: Is there a, like, is there a lesson in it? So, like, I think that we can all say that personally where it's like You know, it takes a moment for you to then crack and actually work out the root of the problem and articulate things properly and all of that sort of thing. And so, you have that version, but then there's a version where you'll have a mate who will see something and say, are you okay? And so, part of the thing with the community thing is like, it's great that you guys are getting so much. Out of us, but no one emailed and asked if we were okay. And so there's nothing wrong with that, but there— I think that we have to identify that we can't treat like— like we've got to treat this differently to the expectations that you'd have with your mate.

Tommy: Yeah, yeah.

Josh: Does that make— does that make sense, or am I being like negative? I realise I'm in a shit mood.

Tommy: Yeah, but I don't think, I don't think I have the expectation on anybody to email us about what we're doing about. I mean, that's where usually it shows itself as negative comments like Stella, who left a review saying the picking the nose content was, you know, too much. Which is funny. But it was also, you know, she also said that she was a fan, but then left it in a podcast review, which is where it usually rears its head. The stuff that it's like, that's how the— that's what it feels like people need to do.

Josh: Well, like Stella has serious internal problems.

Tommy: We don't know Stella.

Josh: I don't know if she does. The reason why, because the thing is, this is what pissed me off about Stella's review. And like, we had this conversation as a team. So, Stella. So, Stella leaves a review. And says, I've been a massive fan of the Daily Talk Show. Massive fan. And but I just listened to a couple of episodes where the boys did some singing of lyrics.

Tommy: Oh, yeah. That was really fun, Stella. I had a great time.

Josh: And Josh talked about picking his nose, which the reason I probably did that was because we don't feel great every time we come behind a microphone. And so, you're like, What the fuck do I talk about? Like, what is— Where is the lightness in the darkness that we might be experiencing? So, but the criticism—

Tommy: Was that the same episode we did the singing as well?

Josh: I think it would have been. I think it would have been. So, it was that one episode. But Stella, why Stella, you need to do a bunch of your own internal work is because if you're a fan, how about you leave a positive review first? How many fucking episodes did you listen to, Stella, without leaving a single positive review? But based on your negative wiring and the, the re— and, and wanting to be heard, the opportunity, like the us having a bit of fun was the moment to say, you know what, not only do I fucking hate what you're doing and I'm taking a break, which Stella won't be hearing this, so we can all agree that Stella's a fuckwit. But like, is this—

Tommy: I know.

Josh: How can I, how can I not bring this energy to Stella where it's like Stella hasn't said one fucking nice thing about us. Yeah. She said that she's a fan. She hasn't said one single nice thing. And then, like, it's why I fucking hate, like, this, this is very common in, uh, like, this is actually very common in, uh, communities like Shameless. They do this to Shameless all the time, which is they love them so much. I loved you so much. And then, no, you didn't, because if you actually did you wouldn't say this shit.

Tommy: You'd fucking stop. You just actually stop and not tell them about it necessarily. And so if you're so over some—

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: Somebody. It's weird because they wouldn't. I don't think— I think people would be more inclined to cut a friend like an actual friend, real-life friend, not an internet friend with less of an explanation than some of the comments.

Josh: When you cut your friend, you don't leave a fucking review.

Tommy: Imagine that.

Josh: Yeah, I mean, this is why Glassdoor is fucked. If you've ever been on Glassdoor, which is the site where you can leave reviews of your previous employer. Yeah, it's a 97. Don't even think about it. But it'd be spotless.

Tommy: Yeah, we've got, we've got, um, what's ours?

Josh: Negative sentiment towards CEO. Because you can, you can set that. You can just, um, no, but I know what you mean.

Tommy: It is, but Adam Grant would be able to break down a lot of this. This is, he, this is his forte, just that psychology of this whole thing, the negativity and feeling like— So, what's more powerful, negativity or positivity? As in just an emotion that pulls you in?

Josh: Well, negativity sits with us more. I think the thing is that to my detriment, I feed, like, I'm feed— I feed off people's energy. So, if I get enough of the negative whiff from things, it does impact of the way that I'm thinking.

Tommy: Do you think, um, do you think you gravitate towards— is that what you're saying, you're gravitating towards—

Josh: I think the negativity sits louder within our minds.

Tommy: Well, it's like thinking back on your own accomplishments. It's so easy to just think about what you haven't achieved, which is a negative sentiment.

Josh: But if we all—

Tommy: yeah, we have done some great stuff and we have come a long ways as an individual or, you know, whatever you're doing. Whatever you're doing. It's easy. Even like, come think about the times with your partner where you've come in and they're cooking something or they're doing something and you've pointed out the thing that's not working or the thing that could be increa— like, could be made better, which totally wipes out all the effort. That's the vibe. It's just sucked the life out of, oh, I'm doing something nice for you right now, which is making you cupcakes, you dog. But you've just criticised the amount of sprinkles on the top of them. They could have more. It's too easy. I get sucked into that. I think it's most people get sucked into the negative sentiment.

Josh: And so, what are we— What, like, so if we're 3 years in on a 10-year journey, what is the new expectation? What's the new version that's really positive, but it can make it very clear? I think that to give Stellar some credit, she's obviously feeling like we've made all these changes and the only way, for whatever reason, she felt that it was rather than giving us the time of sending an email, it was a 1-star review.

Tommy: I don't know if it was a 1-star.

Josh: It was a 1-star review. Yeah.

Tommy: How do you say you love, you're a big fan and then a 1-star? I mean, I don't know.

Josh: It's a picking of the, like, this is the whole thing.

Tommy: Where's the finger slip?

Josh: This is what's like— Stella, go back to our— if you're a fan, go back to our old episodes. We were absolute gronks. Like, like, this is what— this is what's funny. Picking your nose is fucking tame compared to 14. And so, you know, I don't know. I just think— I don't know what the answer is, but this is what I'm trying to reconcile at the moment, which is like, it would be good to work out Like, um, yeah, what, yeah, what's the feeling? Uh, how do you, how do you feel if you think about the, the community, think about Gronkh, you think about all that sort of stuff? What is your actual feeling towards it?

Tommy: No, I think, I mean, we've spoken. I, I probably have a different, uh, it's not even relationship, but it's a just operating system where I feel like— So, we're two different— The reality is we're two different people. I haven't had necessarily vocalised people are annoyed at me and they have at you at some things.

Josh: What do you mean? What does that mean?

Tommy: You know, you said someone said, I'm annoyed at Josh or something. You said something about an email.

Josh: Yeah, yeah.

Tommy: I haven't had any of that stuff. And maybe that's in my personality. Maybe that's me playing it safe, or maybe that's just being less annoying. Just being less annoying. Yeah, exactly. And so I don't feel that because— and I can't even speak to if I did have that, what would I— how would I react? I think I'd probably take it personally based on it being, you know, targeted towards me. But I feel like I've had maybe a lighter approach to that, which is just I can't, I don't know what I've done. I haven't done anything. You've been doing you. I've been doing me. So, that's where I'm like, you know, I don't know, maybe the boundaries are just what they are for me and I don't really see it as—

Josh: Yeah, I think you've brought less energy to that sort of stuff.

Tommy: Yeah, definitely. That's probably the best way to put it.

Josh: And so, like, I think that where that stems from, like where it sort of works out is The attempt, like, I think if we look at community attempts, a lot of them have been spearheaded by me where it's like, you know what, let's do the Facebook group, let's do this, let's— like, I want to work out how to engage, I want to work out how to have that conversation, but we just haven't. So I think that what the armour that you have, which is sort of like a realistic expectation, or, or like, that is what every Uh, I think that if you look at traditional media, I think that that's what traditional media— like, the relationship they have with their audience, right? Which is like, there's a little bit of engagement or whatever, but it's like— and I think that I've seen internet communities, I've seen what that could be. And so I'm like, okay, um, yeah, maybe there's something great that we could do here, but then there is the reality of like, you imagine a pandemic, right, which we're in.

Tommy: Okay. Yeah.

Josh: You don't have to imagine it. So, you think about the pandemic and then you think, think about your friends and family, right. Every listeners, listen, like think about that. Like think about your friends and family. How many of them are going through a hard time? How many of them are struggling? How many, if you think about your workplace, how many people are arguing or just a little bit off now? Think about that and then apply it to our community of Gronks. And the thing is that during the pandemic, there's people having all different types of emotions. And we would hear that and that would come out in the way that we communicated to a lot of it being positive. But there was also like a bunch of that sort of negative stuff that I think that I ended up wearing, which is no one's fault but my own, my inability to work out, okay, here are the boundaries, this is yay or nay. And this is why I think things like social media, for me, it's way easier for me to say I can't be— like, I don't want to do it, because it's like it creates a very clear, distinct boundary. But then the question is, can you in 2021 build something with the expectation of setting those boundaries? Or are the people who are going to be very successful with this going to be able to deal with, you know, like think about David Dobrik. He would have people outside his house all the time. It's what he signed up for. Can you— And look at the fact—

Tommy: Like he's got a big mansion in a gated community.

Josh: He's still 200 metres away from anyone.

Tommy: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And a moat.

Josh: Think about Britney Spears. So, the Britney Spears documentary, the paparazzo was saying that, you know, Britney needed us. And the interview— The interviewer said—

Tommy: For her fame.

Josh: Yeah. The interviewer said, but what about when she said, guys, leave me alone? His answer was, I think she meant like, leave me alone for the day. Right. So, the— But the thing is that— God. And so, this isn't even like what we're experiencing isn't even fame. It is some sort of weird podcast thing, which I love doing. I love chatting. I love expressing myself. But, and I like, I think the thing is I love being able to be there or being a consistent thing for people who listen to the podcast. Um, is that enough for everyone?

Tommy: Yeah, I can't answer for other people, but if anything, it's, um, all those decisions of less days of the show, so 5 days instead of 7, less other, you know, other pocket— like, they're all decisions for our own mental health, for our own well-being.

Josh: It's just focus as well.

Tommy: And yeah, and that, which is the focus, you get— you It's hard to be focused when, you know, there's a lot of that pressure on your mental health or your wellbeing.

Josh: I think the other thing too is when you think about who writes in, the amount of people that we have listening or watching the show versus the amount of people that contact us, there's like a huge gap there. And so—

Tommy: Which I think is, that's the majority. So, you're talking about you and your experience with listening to radio shows or Hamish Andy, you know, there's a majority that don't contact, which is cool. They listen, they love, they don't, and they don't care. They come back or they don't ever listen again. And so, that's cool too. There is just versions, you know, like I've written into podcasts before, early days. And then I haven't for a bunch, but I still listen every day. I haven't, like I haven't fucking—

Josh: Well, there's no expectation, right? Like I imagine when I'm watching stuff, I've— with a creator, I think about the YouTubers where I'll watch like these long videos of them, like explaining what they're doing or— And I'm never one to like comment like, oh, you've changed. Like, I find it interesting. I'm like watching from afar. But yeah, I don't know.

Tommy: Yeah. Some people, it takes a bit more to get them to, you know, like I've seen a bunch of comments many times. I usually watch from afar, but I was just compelled to write. Yeah, I think I've even written that. Dude, been watching from afar, that was sick, well done. You know, like that kind of sentiment.

Josh: It's, um, and so what do we— we need to get clear, I think, of what we want and what, like, we encourage in regards as a community. Because I see the few things that we have at the moment which aren't necessarily— we're not doing a good job of managing or looking at Um, but I think the email, hi@thedailytalkshow.com, is the easiest way because it's a one-to-one. Uh, I think that like it also means that, yeah, I'd prefer to have that. Like if there's feedback on things, I'd prefer a one-on-one exchange via email with a person with a real name. Like I respect that so much more and I would, you know, take, you know, that feedback on versus someone who's left a podcast review.

Tommy: Well, you can't even see who it is really.

Josh: It just could be my name.

Tommy: Yeah, 9953. It's like, yeah, who knows? Who knows who they are?

Josh: What's been happening? But Josh, you will find their fucking ABN. ABN. Yeah, yeah.

Tommy: Medicare number.

Josh: Yeah, yeah.

Tommy: You will extort.

Josh: I am now Stella. I've taken your identity. Anything else? Anything light to finish the show?

Tommy: No, mate. Fired up, came in last night, forgot something, came, picked it up, decided to jump into a bit of editing. You know, it's nice to just be sort of— sometimes I have those moments where I'm just not doing enough, gotta edit more, like, and it's an energy. And then you start, then you're like, ah, yeah, I'm done. Um, but it is, it's, yeah, I think it's like the energy of where you are now, where you want to be, and being motivated by not being where you want to be. And then you're like, fuck, what's there to lose? You know, like that mentality.

Josh: What's the future? Like, I think that, like, I'm thinking about how much I'm in the future constantly.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: And when you can't see the future Like, I can't.

Tommy: No one can.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: Which is—

Josh: But I think that we can create a story. Like, if you think about we had a really good run of like 30 years, nothing crazy happening, you know what I mean? And so, the thing was it seemed pretty like— Whereas I heard Tom Segura, the comedian, talk about this, which I can completely relate to. He looks around at all of his friends or the people around him and he's like, you know what? Nothing traumatic has happened. In a while to anyone that I know, fuck, something's coming. Do you have that feeling or no?

Tommy: No, I know, because what is it? Thought. Sure, you could fucking— Tiger Woods, what happened?

Josh: He's had a car crash.

Tommy: Tiger Woods?

Josh: Yes, again. It's bad.

Tommy: What's he on, drugs?

Josh: It'd be on the— No, well, bad car. He had a slit. No, he had a Uh, on the sleeping tablets. Uh, agitated and impatient before horror crash. Um, as Tiger Woods undergoes surgery for major leg injuries in Los Angeles hospital, a troubling report of his state before a major single vehicle car crash has emerged. He had to get cut out by the jaws of life.

Tommy: Probably didn't lock his doors. No, I wonder what car he was in. Can you see? It's fucking sports car, Lambo, at the bottom of a Cliff looking thing. Oh, he came, he went off the—

Josh: Yeah. No, it looks like that. Yeah. It's sort of, it's completely on its side. Yeah. Not good. But, you know, like life is short.

Tommy: Yeah. So, Tom Segura's thinking is just that, it's thinking future, being thinking about the future in a certain— You have to define what way you're thinking about it because you can also call bullshit on the shit that you think, like, What do you think? What if you were to just say what you think, your summarise your thinking on the future, not the contents of it, but just the way you're observing it? What is it?

Josh: Well, that's the whole thing. Like, nothing can— I guess the feedback that Bri gives me is like, what's changed? Like, what's changed in the last 12 hours to go from being like pretty positive to pretty negative? And I think it's like a compound, like what we've identified you and I through talking is like, I'm like, everything compounds. Sorry, every— like, I'm like, because I can tell a story. Like, we didn't plan— like, on the, on the Monday, we didn't plan to have that, like, tell that story. Like, that just— we're just going with the flow. And so, like, there's a lot of—

Tommy: felt right.

Josh: Yeah. But there's like a lot of dot connecting that's happening. Um, and so I think that that can happen from a negative perspective where it's like, okay, I'm taking on Stella's comment. Okay, I'm taking on this email. Okay, I'm taking on this thing. And then it's just like, and then someone will say, ah, oh, why do you do your podcast like that? It's like, fuck off. You know what I mean?

Tommy: Like, I know, I know.

Josh: Just to clarify too, someone has tweeted saying, just to clarify something, the LASD initially said Tiger Woods was extricated from his vehicle with the jaws of life. An LA County Fire Department spokesperson said jaws of life weren't needed, and basically What they did was they broke through the windshield.

Tommy: Oh, that's still annoying.

Josh: It's still very annoying.

Tommy: I can come out the windscreen.

Josh: And yeah, there's a lot. I mean, it is very— He couldn't be— This news couldn't be more relevant because in his— I'm sure he wasn't doing it for relevancy, but the documentary was all about, you know, there was a big scene with his car crash. I don't know if you remember that. No. His wife, Um, I think— I don't know if they even spoke about this on the documentary, but I remember there was a golf club involved and she was chasing him with the golf. Oh yeah, I don't know if that ended— that was sort of a—

Tommy: he's a root rat.

Josh: Yeah, so he, uh, but he, he was— he would take a lot of sleeping pills and stuff to go to sleep. And so he's taken a concoction, and this is a lot like a while ago that was in the doco, goes for a drive, crashes it out the front of his joint.

Tommy: God, I mean, there's a lot of big celebs that have had car crashes. Kanye West.

Josh: And so, like, so the thing is, like, look at, like, um, look at that.

Tommy: Caitlyn Jenner. Yeah, Caitlyn Jenner, she had one bad one. You know what happened there?

Josh: Oh, that's right, killed someone. Yeah, well, um, uh, can I leave you on a quote?

Tommy: Yeah, hit me with a quote. Caitlyn Jenner quote?

Josh: No. The soccer squad. No, no, no, it's Nike. Just do it. No, no.

Tommy: Hit me. Do you say—

Josh: So, here's one.

Tommy: This is not the one you wanted, though.

Josh: This isn't the one I wanted because it can be very hard.

Tommy: The other one you want.

Josh: Well, the other one, it's like I read it like 8 years ago and it always stuck with me, but I wanted to get the words right. But this is good too. We suffer more in our imagination than in reality. Yeah, that's good, isn't it?

Tommy: Yeah, yeah. And that's a perspective thing too, because the most— not for most, but if you have a house or, you know, home to live in, food, water, a job, like there's a lot there to be grateful for. So the imagining, our mind is thinking about the future of what we want, and then it's like the pain sets in. Like, fuck, I'm not here.

Josh: The basics of what Seneca spoke about, which was avoid big crowds, which is very relevant for coverage.

Tommy: For what reason?

Josh: I mean, no, no, he was talking about just like within crowds there are vices. And so what he talks about is it's like you hang around with enough people, you'll basically find the worst people. And so what I take from that is around the fame thing. Around Tiger Woods is it's like you've got, you know, they built him up to break him down. That was sort of the— that's like, this is the— this is so common. And it's like, how many times casually people saying, oh no, that person's being cancelled, or this person's been cancelled casually? Yeah, casually saying that. It's huge. Like, we just— I think that we are doing a disservice as a society and as a community to be so quick to do these things, because it sort of, it completely removes any nuance. Like, yeah, there are people who should be cancelled based on, and that's why we have like a justice system, that's why we have all these things where it's like you go to, you go to jail, yeah, you do all this stuff. Now it feels like the, um, it feels more sort of like— it actually reminds me of like a witch hunt. Like, I know that people say that a lot, but if you actually think about it, it's like stakes. Like, we're cut— like, this person, like, we're coming after them.

Tommy: Um, don't care about the facts, top line. Yes, get them.

Josh: And so there is, there is a risk of if you allow to be defined by a, a bunch of people Um, you know, you are taking— like, that is taking away something from you. And if someone builds you— and that's why, like, nice comments are nice, but to be honest, uh, to go back to Stella, if you think about, like, the— that is the epitome of what we're experiencing in 2021, which was like, that person used to be great, they now are a bad person because of something, and that's the end. Like, people want black and white, they want that assurity. But, and so you can't accept any of it. Like, you, we get, like, the praise, uh, is just preemptive opportunity to be pulled down. That's how I mean it. I know that's negative.

Tommy: Well, yeah, because if you, well, you know that there's an opposite. If someone praises you, there is the opportunity for them to push you down. But if you don't hear anything, then you don't know that there's nothing, there's no one to be heard from.

Josh: But it's also a control tactic of us as a society, because if they say, Tiger Woods, you are the best in the world, all of a sudden Tiger doesn't own Tiger anymore. Tiger isn't him. Tiger is public property. And I think that In a lot of ways, what's playing out in society now and even with social media is that if you are doing things based on, say, for instance, like, I feel like it used to be clearer. You would have— you get paid. Like, we knew that, like, money was this sort of, you know, something that we needed to live. And so, we would use money as a metric. But now there's all these other metrics. And so it's liking, it's, it's, it's all of this other stuff. And so what we're doing now is we're foregoing— or I can say this, not everyone— I feel like there's many times in my life where I've forgone my own taste, my own what I think is good content for what gets rewarded online. And so, the thing is that like when we do a podcast, there's a lot of time that we spend going, what is the— what's the interest point from an audience perspective? Which I think, I don't know if that's going to be— I think that that's going to be the norm for many people. That's like the— everyone's a content creator.

Tommy: Constantly thinking about what everyone else was thinking about.

Josh: What are the optics? Think about like even think about having a kid. In 2021, the optics of second kid is totally optics for me. But so how are you, you know, how do you communicate? Fucking, how many people have died doing gender reveals lately?

Tommy: It's fair.

Josh: Pyrotechnics gone wrong. Seriously, there's another storey of a guy that fucking, in preparation of a gender reveal, fucking died.

Tommy: Oh dude, how many people have died for content You know, posing on a rock.

Josh: Mm-hmm.

Tommy: Fucking slipping after a selfie.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: So many. What a way to go out. What a way.

Josh: Hopefully they had reception and it posted.

Tommy: People, you know, people dying for their country 100 years ago. People are dying for a selfie today.

Josh: Yeah. It's fucking full on. Yeah.

Tommy: Get some perspective.

Josh: Yeah. And then, and then the thing is that like we have all these feelings about you know, negative feelings towards, say, what Facebook are doing or whatever it is. And then it's like, oh well, you know that they are pulling the strings around, like, who likes what.

Tommy: Exactly. That's the thing, is that you see it's a win because now Facebook are bringing back— You're going to bring up news outlets, you know, bringing back the news on their platforms. There's It's only good for Facebook, like, in the end, because you saw how they just turned it off. They could just start manipulating shit.

Josh: Yeah. Do you know what I'd like to do? I'd like to do a series on the podcast where we interview or have conversations with people who aren't on social media at all.

Tommy: How do you find them?

Josh: Their website. People like, um, Derek Sivers would be great. He's got like a Twitter thing, but he's very sort of contrarian with a lot of this stuff. But I just think that there is a version. I remember when he, um, how about we just get a couple of oldies? Yeah, I mean, there is Jordan.

Tommy: So the echo chamber that you were in is people like us, you know, like our mates are all doing shit like us. We know creators, we know other people that are interested in podcasts. There are people that work in jobs, have families,. And they don't worry about this shit. Yeah.

Josh: Over 60% of the world don't have internet. So, the majority of people don't even have internet.

Tommy: And so, there is a version that just doesn't have the same level of, you know, obsession about this stuff than we do. They have a version for themselves. It's probably fucking—

Josh: Something else.

Tommy: Probably fucking— It's probably something else, you know.

Josh: But don't you also think that—

Tommy: I think the newspaper doesn't come every fucking month. Like, I'm pissed the newspaper delivery is thrown into the wrong house. That's their— Yeah, you know, they don't get their fix.

Josh: But the thing is that, so I'm less interested in that and more interested in the people who it makes complete sense to be on the platforms. So, who are they? So, the 80-year-old that's not on social media, that is an interesting story. Um, but you want the— I want the contrarian. Yeah, I want the outliers who are like, yeah, I am. And Cal Newport's a clear example, who wrote Deep Work and Digital Minimalism. It's like, there are people like that, but I'd also like to find the people who it's not what they hang their hat on. Because the other thing too, it is too tempting to be like, I'm not the social media person, and then you fucking get t-shirts done. And I like— no, I got leavingsocialmedia.com domain. When Sunday. Anyway, all right, it's a Daily Talk Show. Hi@thedailytalkshow.com if you've got any thoughts. Yeah, I would love to read the— read out your emails on the show. Love you, have a good one.

Tommy: See you guys.