The Pain In The Process

Tommy: The Daily Talk Show.

Josh: It's The Daily Talk Show, episode 931.

Tommy: Happy Hump Day, Gronks! What is happening? What's going on? Good morning, JJ.

Josh: Uh, thank you. I've, um, fizzed up some SodaStream, did the 3-pump this morning. Yeah, on the SodaStream, that is. Good morning, everyone. Good morning. Good morning.

Tommy: That's all it takes to get your fizzy water We've all been there, mate. Let's not, let's not beat around the bush.

Josh: But it is also like, if we are going to go into it, it is a, um, it's a primal thing. So the quicker that you do, um, uh, I guess the science is, if you're going scientific, the quicker you ejaculate. I think that's sort of like, if you think about the sort of back in the day, the idea is you're trying to get your sperm into as many different people as possible. And so I think that the idea is the faster you are, the actually sort of the more optimised you are.

Tommy: Yeah, and right now you're witnessing a bloke telling himself a great storey to back up his—

Josh: It's a good story, it's a good story, yeah.

Tommy: Even though you don't wanna have kids.

Josh: It's a great story.

Tommy: I mean, I've been using it for years, but I'm pushing out kids, I'm making babies, I'm making babies. It's a, you know, good day. Nice morning, beautiful. Just been out for a coffee, fired up, fired up with the family. Actually not as fired up as my wife. We went out the other morning and she had a coffee. Actually, sorry, I lie. She had a mocha. She can't drink coffee, never drinks coffee. Like she's not a coffee person whatsoever. Tea, loves tea, but tea doesn't get you fired up. My God, I see this is a, this is the thing. It, it came across as an insult because she had this mocha at breakfast and just talked my ear off. And not like, I've got no, like, it's great that she talks, she can talk to me.

Josh: That's good.

Tommy: It, I like having conversation, but it's very noticeable. And it was a lot of conversation from her.

Josh: And I was like, was it a strong mocha?

Tommy: No, it was a weak mocha.

Josh: How do you know?

Tommy: Because we order weak mochas. And she was a bit offended when I told her that.

Josh: What was she talking about? What was getting her pumped?

Tommy: Everything, just going to story. You know, it's just layering, layering, layering. If you've ever been out with a group of people and it's nighttime and someone's gone off to the bathrooms and come back real chatty, that's what the vibe was. But there was no narcotics and nosebeards is involved. It was just coffee, straight up coffee. But she was a bit offended when I told her, mate, you're talking a lot, like the coffee's getting to you.

Josh: What was her reaction?

Tommy: Anyway, just, oh, what?

Josh: Could you have been, when was it? When was this?

Tommy: It was a Saturday morning. It was great. We were out for some food.

Josh: So, you weren't having coffee?

Tommy: No, this was pre-me having coffee.

Josh: So, were you projecting a little bit? Is this like me when I get on admin and if anyone doesn't calendarise something, I blow up?

Tommy: No, no, no, because Amy sent me this message yesterday and she said, I had another mocha and talked my boss's mum's ear off. I feel that I noticed in myself what you saw on Saturday. And then she's told her boss, oh, can you please say sorry? Please say sorry to your mum. Just tell her that, you know, I just had a coffee.

Josh: Maybe she can have a mocha for when she's on weekend banter.

Tommy: Yeah, oh, that'd be good. It'll be late once you won't sleep all night, but some people are really sensitive to the drug of coffee. Yeah. But I mean, fired up, guys, fired up.

Josh: Yeah, you're day 2 into your coffee. You even did an Insta post about it, Insta story, sorry.

Tommy: Yeah, I nearly backed it up with all my key learnings.

Josh: I was like— Oh, that would have been nice.

Tommy: I'd come down by then.

Josh: Okay, can you tell us your key learnings?

Tommy: Um, my key learnings— this is why I didn't post, because I didn't think it through.

Josh: You didn't have any, is that what it is?

Tommy: No, my key learnings are, um, listen to your body. Because majority of the time, when you're deep on your fourth coffee, you didn't need it after your first one, to be honest. It's like, you know, you've come down and you're just trying to climb back up. It's, um, similarities between needing your sixth— wanting your sixth beer or needing a sixth beer. No one needs the sixth beer.

Josh: It's true.

Tommy: They just want it, and you're kind of in— you're intoxicated already. And so for me, the amount of times I haven't felt good in my body but I've had another coffee has been countless. You know what I'm saying?

Josh: What do you think it is that draws you to have another coffee?

Tommy: It's the thought of— so, so, oh yeah, there's a— here's a good distinction. There's a two— there's two, two addictions: addiction to the habitual addiction and the chemical addiction with the drug. And so as much as I think I'm physic— my body is actually addicted to the caffeine. Um, there's also the habitual addiction, which is get up, first thing you think about wanting to get to the coffee shop, sit down like with Bodhi And so I kind of kept that going with drinking fucking pathetic chai lattes. So I didn't even want— and I always pay extra, like you pay more anyway for a chai latte, but I would always downsize it but still pay the same. So because I didn't want to drink, you know, a litre of fucking milk with a chai latte because they always say, oh no, we got to do them in the big size, we don't do the small size based on something or other. Anyway, my mate at the coffee shop would give me the small one.

Josh: And so, what's the problem? So, maybe it's something to do with— Are they loose leaf?

Tommy: So, it's brewing, it's something about— One of them said something around it's like not worth us doing. And this was at another coffee shop, not my friend's. It's like not for the cost of the leave. I don't know. It was something ridiculous.

Josh: Okay, sure.

Tommy: I was like, that sounds complicated. You should just offer two sizes.

Josh: Well, I went to—

Tommy: That's what I want.

Josh: I went to Macca's for a iced coffee because they do the almond milk that I like, Milk Lab.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: And the cheeky buggers. So, I'm watching them make it. It's like, you know, barista, all that sort of thing. And then just before they stir it, I just see them sort of go to the side of the sort of machine and do a pump of something. Freaky buggers.

Tommy: Was it one pump?

Josh: Just one pump. It was some form of like, it was just, I think it was like sugar syrup. Or something. It tasted really good.

Tommy: Yeah, but now it's naughty.

Josh: It did sort of change what it was going to be.

Tommy: Yeah, so it's listening to your body. It's, I mean, did it—

Josh: Do you think it's the caffeine thing? 'Cause like for me, if someone said to me today, look, we've worked out thick shakes are about the same as coffee in regards to health, all of that sort of thing, even sort of hipster value, you know, the cool factor, milkshakes are up there, thickshakes, right? Trev Long's fucking wrapped at that point, let's be honest. He loves a milkshake. It's cool. And I like milkshakes too. I like thickshakes specifically. And so if they were to say thickshakes are the new coffee, just as, you know, the same sort of health, all of that sort of thing, I think that I would go a thickshake 2 thick shakes a day versus 2 coffees. So that makes me feel that I don't have an addiction to caffeine.

Tommy: Yeah, they're all words. Addiction doesn't speak, it just acts, and it needs what it wants, what it needs. Well, that's where when everyone says, oh, I'm not addicted, it's like, well, fucking take a month off then, see what happens. Like, there's a different— there's levels of addiction, right? There's levels of the, the drug and the dependency that you, that you have based on the addiction. So heroin, you come off that shit, you're in big trouble. It can kill you if you just come off, like you can if you just come off cold turkey. There's people who have died from that. Body shuts down. Whereas this is a light drug, hence why it's, you know, everyone's on it. But there is an addiction to it anyway. So that's, that's it. Just listening to my body, only needing one a day, which I've kept 2 yesterday, as much as I fucking wanted another one. And that is opening the door. You got to realize, like, I was speaking to Jess Lucas, producer Jess, yesterday just about catering for, um, the Christmas party this Friday. And I was like, what do you need, mate? Because she's on that lifestyle. She's got that, um, you know, some would call it a diet, others call it a lifestyle, but she's not eating certain foods. But she's realised in herself that she has to— it's either I'm doing it or I'm not, because you can't open the door. And that's for a lot of people. And so, I even see how if I open the door for coffee, I want another one. Like I want to leave this show right now to go get a coffee. In fact, do you want to?

Josh: I'll go get you one. I actually, I do feel like a coffee now.

Tommy: But I'm sure if you click your fingers, it will appear.

Josh: No, I've already had that one.

Tommy: See, there you go. Like, I would love to just go to a cafe and not do any work.

Josh: Are we going to have a meeting after this?

Tommy: I don't have a car, so that's a very— unless you want to come pick me up. I'll take you to my local haunt. No, but here's the thing, I then I want a coffee. And so what about it?

Josh: I'm opening the door. We could do a team coffee. We could all go to a cafe today.

Tommy: We can do that tomorrow because we're all catching up.

Josh: We're going to the office. Yeah.

Tommy: If I, if I open the door, see, I'm being It's just knowing yourself. How do you know yourself when you haven't checked yourself?

Josh: Well, this is the thing, this is what's hard. This is what, like, even so, like, there is a little bit of shame in the alcohol, you know.

Tommy: I've only just started drinking, and every time you say that, it's going to follow, follow with fuck up.

Josh: No, I am— no, but there is the, there is the bout, like, I am the guy that doesn't do moderation. Like, Bri and I went with Mason and Grace to a wine bar in Carlton last night. We had a nice cocktail and then we had a peanut wine.

Tommy: I can tell you who's really the drinking guy, Mr. 97. Jesus Christ, that kid didn't drink ever.

Josh: No, but he didn't drink at all. So, he's— So, this is the thing. And because Bree said to me, she's like, ah, on hump day, Seb said that he wants to sort of dial back the drinking. That's what—

Tommy: okay, no, no, right.

Josh: And so it's all, it's all making sense. But yeah, so we went to the wine bar or whatever, and so I, I've had the, um, the cocktail, I've had the Pinot. It was great. We had soft cheese, it was like some sort of sweet thing with it. Like, it was, it was amazing, right? And then I said, do you guys want to come back to our place and test out the bike, as you do, because I was fucking talking about the bike a lot. So they said yes, and so they're testing out the bike. And at the time, before we actually left to go to our place, they said that tonight they were going— like last night they were going to watch the Shawn Mendes concert on Netflix. Cute. And so anyway, I just had this great idea sort of mid the guys playing with the bike. I'm like, oh, fuck, I think we've got some Pinot in the cupboard. So, I grabbed the Pinot out and I'm like, guys, I just thought like you could stay if you want. We can watch Shawn Mendes together.

Tommy: Stay the night or just stay and watch?

Josh: No, no, no, just like stay and watch and then go home. But it would be great to have. I mean, this is the thing with when you start drinking, it's like a second, you see the benefits in just like making it easy for people, right? But so I got out the pinot, but then I could tell Mason wasn't into it as much. I was like, come on, just be honest. Do you want to go home? He's like, yeah. Yeah, I think I would. But in that moment, yeah, it was Tuesday night. I mean, don't put it, but this is what I was saying to them. I was like, guys, it feels like Friday night. Like the whole going.

Tommy: Anytime you drink, it feels like you're fucking, it's ready to fire off.

Josh: So just going, yeah, just going out. And so, I get the idea. I understand in that moment because then they left and then I went back out to the kitchen and the Pinot was put away, like Bree's like, put it away back into the cupboard.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: I was like, but then I feel fine because the thing is I'd like got the Pinot out and I'd gotten dark chocolate out. Like I was ready to send it. And so, I think it was a good outcome because—

Tommy: And so, you didn't say send it and it was all put away.

Josh: Yeah, we watched Shawn Mendes. We still watch Shawn Mendes. I tried to work out how many cameras they were filming the concert with, that sort of fun stuff. And then, um, went to bed.

Tommy: Yeah, I mean, that sounds, sounds like an appropriate Tuesday night after you've been to a wine bar. I mean, but that's the thing, opening the door is a problem for a lot of people in any area. And so it is the fine balance of There's something I really get out of stopping something for a whole month, like those challenges. Stopping something really allows me to look at how my body or what I am thinking— like, put yourself in the position of not being able to do something, and then you start thinking certain ways or observing patterns within you, your emotions, or just feelings. When you— your habits, you start being able to identify your habits. The problem is when you're in the middle of it all. And not everyone has the ability to just— or they even want to do that, to take a month off. Like, I don't know, that's— I need that sort of framework to be able to see it, or, you know, see it as a challenge for myself, or, you know, test my willpower.

Josh: But then there's other things that are way less destructive and that are just as fun. Hiking, going on big walks, that's fun on a Sunday.

Tommy: Yeah, but I think so the problem, what I'm— what we're talking about is habits or something that is super easy, the barrier to entry is low, open your mouth, pour the wine in, and it's a drug that completely affects your state. And so as much as me training yesterday I was like, fuck, I was running and fucking squatting and pushups. And I'm like, mate, I'm like that pain or that sort of, I feel like there's, if you were watching the internals, there's some kind of spray of a chemical, like an endorphin. This is what happens when you exercise, endorphins are released, but I could literally feel it. It's like a, and I could feel the spray, the feeling in my head. And I was like, oh, this feels fucking amazing, which I know, 'cause I've trained a lot in my life, but I was like, my point being is that that's an action that has to take a heap of, at this point for me, because it's not a baked-in habit every morning I have been doing for the last 3 years, which I haven't been doing exercise every morning for the last bunch of years to be able to make it this habitual thing that I just go to. Whereas the other things, JJ, are so easy.

Josh: Yeah, they're eating food, alcohol, coffee. I think that it was crazy. Like last night, the experience I had was an experience of moderation, and I actually enjoyed it just as much. And I think that part of it is not to put everything on the bike, but I think that maybe having exercised, it's all this— it's like it's the keystone habit to then line— like, you're like, okay, if I know that I'm going to have to You know, because Ashley, my trainer, she says, okay, like, you're probably feeling what you've eaten, like, after like 3 days ago. Like, this is— this will affect how you're feeling.

Tommy: And so, um, well, I think it— there was a lot to do with Mason knocking you back from drinking.

Josh: Oh, definitely.

Tommy: Yeah, putting the wine away.

Josh: Yeah, I think, um, yeah, and I think that was— I think that was the right—

Tommy: like, if you had enablers around you Which, where this is the problem, I used to— it was all— it's always looking to team up with somebody, especially when you're partying. It's like, who's up for fucking pushing it till 4 AM? And you want to be around those people if that's what your intentions are. It's not— it's destructive, but it's— and it's no good. There's nothing that good happens after 1 AM.

Josh: But then you don't want to be the mate. So with Sev's being like, I don't want to drink as much, I don't want to be the guy that's the antithesis of his thing, right? Like, if you're trying to get off drugs, you don't hang out with your junkie mates.

Tommy: Exactly. Yeah.

Josh: So I've got to stop being the junkie mate.

Tommy: Well, yeah, we're all on our own path. And so you see how you've got to work it out for yourself because it's actually not the other person's fault. So if you— so for me, I, I got to take whole responsibility if I'm hanging around people and I'm drinking more than I should be, but I don't want to be. Like I'm the only one who can really stop that. And I'm not talking about heroin or ice here, it's like there's a different ball game. I think so much is out the window. I'm talking about basic things that you just want to live a different type of life and friends are doing something else, doesn't mean you have to do it. But that's all on me, that control. I have to— if I don't have the ownership, it's not in your hands because you're just doing you.

Josh: But also, I don't feel like I am influenced. I'm influenced by a bunch of things. I don't think it's necessarily the people around me. I don't think, like, I don't think, like, the thing was that in that moment where I've got the Pinot, I'm the only one who's influencing me.

Tommy: And so, yeah, so that's your— I know that's you though. And so maybe that is what you wanted to do, basically.

Josh: I think it was just like, so I still got the exact same thing. I think it was like the perfect balance, to be honest. I think that this, like, Because it's not drinking. I drink twice a week, maybe like a midweek thing, and then maybe a Friday or a Saturday. Yeah, that's really it.

Tommy: But it's this— it's so— it's the— you, you— it's the thing that you started drinking which then can lead you into the other stuff, as in like you're just drinking more. Or for a lot of people, they don't plan on doing cocaine, but as soon as they've had 3, 4 beers, they're like, let's get a bag of cocaine. That's how it fucking works. Trust me. There's memes about it, videos about it. It is so true. I've been there. It's like years and years ago. It's like, but it's the, it's not the gateway, but it's what the alcohol does to you. So you dropped, so you probably hadn't thought, if you'd planned out a night of like, we're going to wine bar, we gotta come back to mine, kick-ons. It's Tuesday night. We're gonna watch a, like, you'd be like, oh, that seems a bit much.

Josh: But as soon as you walk in the door. Yeah, just calendarize it. It would be, it's a bit embarrassing.

Tommy: It'd be embarrassing.

Josh: Just like, oh, look guys, I've put in the calendar, it's 5:30 till 1:00 AM, everyone come.

Tommy: Exactly, exactly. It seems too much. I mean, who plans on going out for 8 hours? If I, like it's, I've been out, I mean, difference when you've launched and you're doing 24 hours out in the town, but even when you just go and hang out, like Amy was always so blown away that I'd go and hang out with Conspiracy Jimmy for 6, 7 hours drinking beers. She'd be like, that's like, that's a fucking work day. That is a lot of hours. What the hell are you guys talking about, mate?

Josh: Conspiracies.

Tommy: Yeah, everything, everything. But it's easy to do and the time flies and next minute. But so bringing it back to your reason why we don't sort of get into walking, bushwalking or whatever, whatever you said, trail walking, hiking, it's A, much harder. You don't have the habit instilled at this moment. B—

Josh: You could create it, right? You could be like, oh, let's like midweek walk. Let's like walk somewhere. I think that would be good.

Tommy: I mean, it needs probably more than that. It's like people who do rock climbing. You could become a real lifestyle, like they're dry hands. But you listening to Joe Rogan had this girl Emily who was a pro rock climber, good mates with Alex Honnold, on his show. Her name is Emily Harrington. She's a pro rock climber. She's been doing it for 12, 15 years or something. She's young though. But she's, um, you know, got sponsors and done some of the trickiest climbs in the world and doesn't climb without a rope like Alex, but does the next thing in line. Um, but she was just talking about how it is such a lifestyle, like it's this, it's this thing that it's just you're thinking about. And first time she started, she just was like The thing is, she had some skill and she recognised that she was good at it, which then fueled this thing. It's like, no, oh my God, I don't want to do any of the other shit I want to do. I want to do— I want to stop everything and I want to just rock climb. And, and there's something about those kinds of people that it becomes such a lifestyle. It's like surfing. I haven't— I can see how I, how I could easily get into that lifestyle of chasing waves, but it's—

Josh: I also, I mean, there's a bit of a duty. Yeah, there's, there's a, there's a little bit of a gap.

Tommy: Yeah, I would need to not have to think so much about my career and what I want to do for work. Like some people do, they just literally, they don't have a job or they don't, they just take part-time work, but their main thing is surfing even though they don't become professionals. And so at that point, in my mind I can't do that. I couldn't do something because I would be like, what about the other stuff that I want to achieve?

Josh: Sarah Lee, who— she does like, um, surf photography. That's her whole thing is based around like where the good surf is. Super chill.

Tommy: So good. Like, you're thinking about this Emily girl doing rock climbing. I was like, imagine like she's sponsored, right? All that means is she needs to do some social media stuff. She's— they don't say that you have to. She says that it's encouraged. But imagine that, like, think about something in your life that you love, and if you didn't have to think about anything else and you just got to do that. That's the trap though, I think, when you think that that's where you're going to land. It's like for us, this podcast being the only thing we do, um, kind of like single focus.

Josh: Yeah, I mean, single focus is nice.

Tommy: It is nice, but do you think it's achievable for most? Is it a pipe dream? Is it the unicorn approach? What do you think?

Josh: I think it's hard because I think that the opposite is always true as well. So, I think that you hear like, you know, no plan B, just focus on the one thing.

Tommy: Saying no— Craig Groves is actually pathetic.

Josh: Say no to everything else, you know, like, just say yes to things you want to do. Um, but there's all these other factors too. Like, maybe your dream— like, your dream is true, your dream is possible, but it's just the timing of when it all happens. And so if you— would you forego the potential of long-term success of your dream for shorter sort of, I guess part of it is like you can overbake something really early and then be like, ah, it doesn't work and put your hands up where it's like, no, actually your dream is going to come true. It's just not gonna happen in fucking a year or 2 years. It's a 10, 15, 20 year thing. And so—

Tommy: And the specific way you think it is, right? So, that Emily girl was like, I've got self-doubt. She's like, I don't know, I sometimes think, why the fuck am I here? Like, why am I a professional rock climber? Self-doubt. And so at the point— so when you think about single focus, that's my dream, it's like, maybe it's— maybe there's a version of it being a dream. So it's just thoughts in your head. Not to say that you can't do a version of it, but the way you see it might not necessarily be how it works for you. So this podcast, we make money sometimes.

Josh: If you were like, stop it, you're at the Christmas parties or fucking family Christmas. Yeah, we make money sometimes.

Tommy: If you compare to somebody that has been able to work out how to just do that, nothing else, and literally that's all they're focused about. But then you get— then, then what about when you were faced with the version of Now you actually have to have a whole other business as well and have a heap going on to get to where you want to go, because then you would resent that approach if you were completely thinking about the other way. Not to say— but that's not to say to give up on the thought of just doing one thing and that's it. But there is also gauging your surroundings in your situation to say, is, is it— do I have to get there a different way? And the answer is probably Yeah, there is. It's just maybe not exactly how you thought in your mind, but there is a version. So that's where comparison— I think I've got so much better at— and I feel the trap of seeing and feeling the comparison to looking at others, but I just don't think I dive into it as much. But it's so destructive looking at other people and what— how they've done it, or what they've just launched, or the business that they're creating, or the people that they're sort of knocking about with, because then you just, you feel so shit because it's not your reality. That's their trip. You're on your own.

Josh: I think that part of it too is the, um, enjoying the process. So I think the part of it is that for some reason the destination, or we have this perceived destination, so we can see, like for someone who wants to be, you know, a top-tier film director they might see themselves in Hollywood, they might see themselves at the premiere of their, you know, big feature film. But the thing is that there's all of these smaller steps that are going to happen way sooner that we can sometimes disregard, or we find it hard to focus on it. And so I think for me it's about trying to look closer at the small steps. I even think that with like health, like I look at— especially when you have trainers or whatever, like looking at like— even I catch myself in the moment where I'm like, you see someone who's just like, they've been doing something for such a long time, and so this storey in their head is so strong. And it's so easy when you're at the start of your journey of everything to look at the people, you like, you look at the instructors like, oh fuck, like they're putting a lot into this. Like, I'm not going to be that. But there is like, there are shades, it's a gradient, everything's a gradient. And so you don't have to be like, to get it, one of my favourite quotes, I think it was in Cadence, the book by Pete Williams, I think.

Tommy: Free Pumps His Primal.

Josh: Great book title. No, so, uh, Cadence talks about like, uh, uses this analogy of a bike shop around how to get business and all that. Something very bike heavy at the moment, but, um, I read this a couple of years ago, but he talks about you need to make a dollar before you can make $10, and $10 before you make $100, and $100 before $1,000, and $1,000 before you make $10,000. And the problem is that for most people, myself included, it can be very tempting to be like, skip all that shit, fucking, I don't like the $10 thing, doesn't excite me, let's get to the $10,000, $100,000, million, like whatever it is. And the thing is that if you look at growth, if you even look at, you know, Matt D'Avella, a bunch of different, you know, YouTubers, it's like there's a heap of time where they're not getting any views, they're not getting— they're not making that much money off it. And so that is part of the process. And I think that unfortunately the reason why most people don't do things, and the reason I don't do things, is because it's like, it's, uh, it's really hard. It's even like reading books. It's like you need to actually just enjoy the process of page by page reading the book rather than some fucking goal of like speed reading to try and Like, yeah, optimize, optimize, optimize.

Tommy: I mean, if your goal is optimization, that's like your thing, then that's a bit different. But the person that's still dreaming of themselves on the red carpet in Hollywood at the premiere of their own film, think about all the pain that's gonna be involved. Just human experience, like, that's just— it involves pain to even get there. And so when you think Fuck, how many times in life have you got to a moment where it is the moment of celebration, you— but then you're like, you've lost that feeling. It doesn't feel like you thought it would. In your head you're like, I'm actually coming down with a little cold before this premiere, like the worst time ever. And I'm like, oh no, this is so annoying. And, and then it's like, yeah, you're just looking forward again to something different, but You're right, the process. If you can, if you can navigate all that pain, navigate all the great moments as well, and the pressure and everything that comes with trying to create or achieve something, then that, then that's more real than the end game, than the destination, is what you're saying.

Josh: Well, think about the biggest musicians in the world. They love the process. They love— like, if you watch whether it's Taylor Swift, Shawn Mendes, Katy Perry, any of those documentaries, Lady Gaga, any of them, R&Bs, Justin Bieber. Yeah. If you watch any of them, the thing is, it's like, it's all about the craft. It's all about the— it's actually, you know, the stadium shows, the standing in front of, you know, 50,000 people. That is part of the job, but the actual work is closed doors, sitting in a room, writing, working on craft. And I think that that's what— and hopefully, like, you hear when you hear young people, like, so many young people talk about, you know, they want to be a YouTube star. It's like, what? And obviously we've all had that, we've all had versions of that growing up. But I wonder, there will be a few that understand— understands what that actually means. It's like, oh, I need to get really good at my craft, I need to understand audience, I need to get good at marketing. Um, but it's the, the majority of people in the world, and me included, for 99% of the things that I do, I am looking at the shiny object and not thinking about it. From a process perspective.

Tommy: 100%. And yeah, that's the harder thing to do. Yeah, the harder thing to do is to look at the process.

Josh: Well, because it's not sexy.

Tommy: It's not.

Josh: Um, and that's like, I mean, look at you on your Nordic bike.

Tommy: Is that sexy?

Josh: Yeah, no, I mean, that's the thing. It's like a, um, it's painfully annoying but a lot of fun. But like, I think that, yeah, I think that it's like entering into like, I'm so grateful that I'm like in the most uncomfortable thing. Like, so this is very uncomfortable for me, but I'm like, I have created the most comfortable version of my uncomfortable. And so there's literally no excuses because like, I don't have to worry about cars, I don't have to— like, I've got a fucking fan on me. It's just like— and so there is the, um You know, but they— But it's still— The funny thing is that the sexiness of getting it and thinking about it is actually like the pain and the reality that when you have to get off the saddle and you're like moving around, your fucking hips hurt and it's like it's burning. But that's like, that's the point. That's like the—

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: That's the— I think the part of it is that we do a good job of looking at something and seeing a very clear destination, and then we see any barrier or any pain or anything as stopping us from getting closer. But I think that what I'm trying to do— and this is what Seth Godin talks about in The Practice, this is in, you know, so much around creativity— it's like that moment, that resistance, that sort of, um, that pain is actually the sign that progress is being made. And so when— and I think that's for me where it's like on the bike— last time I'm mentioning the bike on the episode— um, when I'm, when I'm, when I'm riding, I'm thinking, okay, this hurts, but that's actually good. Because I had a moment where I'm like, oh, you know what, maybe I'll do like a more scenic— like, fuck, like, is this going to be hills again? I don't want hills. It's like, why am I doing it? Like if I end up just doing these long flat rides, it's like super easy. It's just like, it's a cop-out. And so, it's like, I think that we all need to be like, okay, what is the— What's the pain in the process to expect and to get excited about? Because it's an indicator that you're making progress.

Tommy: Lean in. How can you lean into the pain when you identify it? It's like, what's the thing you don't want to do today that you're avoiding? It's probably the thing you should do.

Josh: It's all booked to the mechanic, by the way. She's booked in the service. I just got a calendar invite, so I can't do that.

Tommy: That's passive.

Josh: I appreciate it. Um, alrighty, well, uh, it's a daily talk show. If you enjoy the show, please, uh, subscribe on your favourite podcast app. Also, all the videos are up on YouTube. We live stream most mornings. Otherwise, enjoy your day, guys, and we'll see you tomorrow. See you guys.