Weight, Insecurities & Subscriptions

Josh: It's The Daily Talk Show, episode 748.

Tommy: What's happening, guys? What's going on?

Josh: Tommy Jacket, happy Tuesday. Great to be here. Beautiful weather in Melbourne. Is it?

Tommy: What he's trying to do is assume a positive attitude and hopefully it comes through in a more sort of tangible level within his, within his cells.

Josh: No, it is, it is great to be here wherever you are right now, whether you are walking walking your dog.

Tommy: Is this the guy from Instagram from 2012 that is now speaking?

Josh: Well, I feel like—

Tommy: Josh Janson?

Josh: Is it? I feel like there's something nice in the leaning into the radio personality.

Tommy: Bit of old telly style. I tell you what, sleep is overrated. So overrated.

Josh: No, I don't know about that. No, I know.

Tommy: What are you joking? I'm absolutely joking. Bodhi was up. He came into our bed last night. And he has a— So, he got a mozzie bite probably 2 months ago, maybe even more. And he's pulling a JJ and I'm pulling a Lin Jansen.

Josh: He's scratching it.

Tommy: Oh, I have to get up. I have to say in the middle of the night, stop scratching. I feel like I'm Lin Jansen.

Mason: He—

Tommy: This kid, this is the— This is like a test of human repairability. Because it's like him picking at it in the day versus how quickly can it heal in the night. And so, it's become a tick for him where he's like scratching. It must be itchy, but it's not even that bad. It's not as bad anymore, but he's scratched new bit on it. And so, he's scratching—

Josh: What does that mean? Like he's—

Tommy: There was the mozzie bite and then there was the scratch line. And like he's created a new sort of mark that wasn't a mozzie bite.

Josh: Okay. And you're saying that it's— Well, sleeping is overrated because you're not You're not getting sleep?

Tommy: It was a joke. I was like, mate, I'm absolutely rat shit.

Josh: So how do you know that he is doing that? You must be getting up in the night and checking.

Tommy: No, he's coming. No, no, I'm not doing that. He's coming into our bed to sleep in the middle of the night, which it's hard to get him out straight away because then he comes back in. And I did get to a point where I was like, you're out, mate, you're done. Took him back into his bed and he said, get in, get in. And so I got in for a little bit and I thought I had him. Like, you just, you get him to sleep, right? And then I got out and I went downstairs to turn the heater on, which, you know, the sort of ducted heating. And next minute I just hear the door open as I'm walking up the stairs and he's back in our bed.

Josh: What time was it?

Tommy: 3:30 AM. And that's like the last bit. But then it was just, it was horrific. So anyway, it's, you really feel the effects. I intuitively wore, I think it's because I'm tired, tracksuit pants. Like yesterday you were in your full tracky getup. Well, I think I didn't even, I was just like, I thought thought they were a great idea, but now in hindsight, it's because you're tired and you're making decisions that are based on you being tired in the morning.

Josh: Well, the only reason that I felt justified wearing them yesterday was because they're Cotton On, and because they gave them to us, I thought, like, this is me just, you know, representing. This is just a brand deal. But, um, because they were dirty, I didn't feel comfortable doing that with my regular— You shouldn't go to work in something that you sleep in as a general rule.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: So, not the cotton, the cotton on ones are my good ones. Sure. I've got some other ones where—

Tommy: You sleep in the trackies.

Josh: For a long time, I didn't have tracksuit pants.

Mason: Really?

Josh: Like, I've only discovered tracksuit pants in the last few years. Shorts. I was a big shorts guy. I was actually the kid that would wear shorts for every occasion. Like, it was— I was one of the only kids in school Do you remember that it was how uncool it was to wear shorts?

Tommy: There was a kid.

Josh: But do you actually remember that? You can say no.

George: I don't remember that.

Josh: Uncool.

Mason: At school, as in with the school uniform.

Josh: Yeah. Yeah. So, it was very, it was very uncool.

Mason: I don't have a school uniform.

Josh: Really? So, you went to some sort of public school.

George: Public school.

Josh: But I went to a povoh public school.

George: Yeah. No, we didn't have school uniforms.

Tommy: That's weird.

George: Actually, in fact, in even in primary school, We had like a red t-shirt that they told you to wear, but no one wore it. So, our principal would pay us 10 cents to wear it.

Josh: How would you get that cash?

George: In a little raffle ticket for the canteen. So, at assembly on Monday mornings, whoever was in their red shirt, they'd walk around and give you a little ticket.

Mason: Oh, that's great.

George: That's cute. But then the rest of my school through high school, no uniform.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: And so, what would you wear? I'm guessing there's a fair bit of pressure involved.

George: Well, looking back, it wasn't good. It was a lot of patterned, like, button-ups and, you know, shorts and Vans.

Tommy: You're probably the most fashionable guy. I mean, the guy who—

Josh: Be careful with your words. Most fashionable guy you know?

Tommy: In our team.

Josh: In our room.

Tommy: In our team. And fashionable meaning you take chances and you wear things that all of us wouldn't, but you pull it off.

George: I pretty much just go for plain now.

Tommy: Do you?

George: Yeah, just plain, plain hoodie, plain t-shirt.

Tommy: But the shirts you wear, the jackets you have, I don't own any of that stuff. Yeah, that's like edgy.

George: Thank you.

Josh: Have you gone through— well, I had— I mean, we've spoken a lot about rebrands over the course of some—

Tommy: you've done a lot. We saw— I mean, it's not a competition, but I'm pissed. Uh, I posted my Tea Guy video where I made the play, and, um, And then you came through with a post of you, the, the tea guy, which was you in 2012.

Josh: Yeah, 2011.

Tommy: Yeah, 2011, wearing one of the cutest little, you know, shirt and, and sort of, what is it, like a knit shirt and knit?

Josh: What is that brand?

Tommy: I don't know, was it Ralph Lauren?

Mason: Yes.

Josh: Was it Polo?

Mason: Tommy Hilfiger?

Tommy: Tommy Hilfiger?

Josh: Could have been either of them.

Mason: I think it was Hilfiger.

Josh: I'm sure it was a DFO job, you know.

Tommy: Mate, I got— I was worried as soon as you posted that. I commented and said, I hope this— if this gets more likes than my video, I'm going to be pissed. And sure enough, mine got 60 and yours got 155. But then someone also thought it was me posting it and fat shaming you.

Josh: Is that what—

Tommy: I'm pretty sure, because then someone else in there wrote, said, this is hilarious, Tommy. It's like, I had nothing to do with this.

Josh: And what's the— if you just post a photo of me from like from 2011, I happen to be fat. Is that really fat shaming? Or is it only fat shaming when you point out that it's fat shaming?

Tommy: Well, someone— I reckon the fat person that pointed out that someone was doing fat shaming is the fat shamer.

Josh: Or maybe it was because I went down the rabbit hole of thinking, oh, maybe this is about the show. And I got really like I was in the shout, like I got home, it was pissing down with rain on the way home. Did you get wet?

Mason: I got soaked. Yeah. Walking home.

Josh: And so, I got really soaked as well. Yeah. And straight away got home, had that sort of hot shower, reminded me of playing footy. Yeah. You know, and getting like, you have your shorts on or whatever and you get muddy and wet and you're freezing and then you have a hot shower and you see the steam.

Tommy: Yeah.

Mason: Stinging.

Tommy: Was there hot chips waiting for you?

Josh: I wish.

Tommy: That was the deal.

Josh: Don't feel ashamed. And so, no, I was thinking about it. I was like, oh, Uh, I got defensive around the fat shame comment because what I was thinking was, I was like, um, and it's a, I guess, a decent question. If you are, uh, overweight or if you have been— so for me, like, a lot of the shame is me personally, right? Like, I, I— there was shame I felt being overweight. Do I get a free ticket to fat shame yourself or others? Well, for me, I think that whenever we do it, it's always based on me, like my personal—

Tommy: Yeah, I mean, you're only ever speaking to your, your past.

Josh: And I don't care. The other thing too is I don't care if you're fat. I only care if I'm fat, which is—

Tommy: I don't know, like, I hope I get fat.

Josh: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Maybe Georgie boy, what do you— I mean, you're the voice of reason on the show.

George: Well, for me, luckily I've never had to deal with weight issues.

Josh: Oh, luckily.

George: It is.

Josh: That's a shame. Yeah. Oh, okay.

George: Sorry.

Mason: Voice of reason.

George: But I reckon if you want to fat shame yourself, I think that's okay.

Tommy: Well, it's your call. It's a bit rich to tell somebody not to fat shame themselves if that's what they— I mean, it's— I think it's advised that you shouldn't do it. Can be a bit toxic for your own self.

Mason: Yeah.

George: I don't know. I don't know if I said the right thing just then.

Tommy: No, I know what you mean.

George: I haven't thought about it too much.

Tommy: It is a tough topic to be able to discuss. I mean, we don't want to discuss people's weights. It's not— weight is none of our business. But then at what point is someone very unhealthy? And I'm only talking about someone that you love and it'd be a real issue. It'd be a real issue as a parent having a child, as a, you know, as a child having a parent that is severely or morbidly obese and your interest is in their health and them being around to see you grow up or your kids grow up. And so then can we not talk about that? I don't know. I don't know the answer because I think in a politically correct world we can't. And it's got to a point where you— we can't discuss any of those things. But then I don't know how advantageous that is to the population that is really unwell in that regard. And so, it's a sensitive topic. Like the— I heard someone speak about over in the States, there's been care packages for people affected by coronavirus and losing their income. And it was like this great service where they're going around, say, places like on the outskirts of New York City, and they're saying, "We're getting your food for you. You don't have to leave the house. We're going to come and deliver it." And the person that created this charity was so, so upset because everything on the list was Pop-Tarts, was waffles, was high sugar. And it's like, at a time when we're at such risk, I mean, that he bought them for these people.

George: Yeah.

Tommy: But it was like, oh my man, this is so much beyond just eat healthy, you know. It's like, that's really sort of ingrained in sort of your upbringing and what— I mean, it's— yeah. But then on the other hand, yeah.

Josh: Well, because I get— I think part of it maybe is that there's the feeling that if you are overweight, that you attach it to laziness or things like that. There's obviously— there's people with thyroid issues, or even the, the mental struggle of trying to eat healthy is hard.

Tommy: Yeah, yeah. I think there's— it's never— it's, it's never a problem to be more sensitive. Like, I think it's, it's a good thing to be more empathetic about people's situations. So rather than just saying you're fat and you're lazy, it's like, it doesn't work like that. It's not as simple as that.

Josh: Yeah, but I get the, um, I have had pushback in myself leaning into the accept. And maybe this is self-destructive, maybe this isn't good, but I don't necessarily want to lean into the acceptance of my weight because it feels like then I'm never going to address it. And I think addressing it is a good thing.

Tommy: This is a question, 'cause I haven't been at a weight that you have. Do you feel like at 125 kilos, which is the heaviest, did you feel like if anyone referenced something to do with, or was talking about weight around you and it wasn't a conversation directly about you, did you feel like it was about you? Did you feel like eyes were on you? Because that's how I think that I could be— that's how I think I could affect somebody is by talking about weight. And they're over here thinking, he's talking about me.

Josh: But I don't know. I think that like for me it was such an identity thing. Like I was the kid that would say, hey, look how quickly I can eat this ice cream. And so like leaning into that and even like I think that some of these habits don't leave you. Like being someone who has struggled with their weight, I feel like the, um, when people are finishing their food or like if there's leftovers, I remember as a kid it was always like, oh, like, are you gonna eat that? Like, you eating that? And I would, I would have that. And I feel like that was a habit that was sort of, um, ingrained in like identity stuff and all that sort of thing. But whereas I think there are, there are positive habits where it's like, oh, just by default, just because there's food there doesn't mean you need to eat it. So, like, say for instance on Saturday when we're doing the Working Bee or whatever, and you buy chips and all that sort of thing, it's like there is this automatic thing in me which is like, I've got to have the chips. Like, you just got to eat whatever's there. Where it's like, it takes active thinking for me. But yeah, to answer your question, yeah, I think Were you hypersensitive to— No, no, no, because I was more sensitive, like I was more sort of sensitive to myself, or like, um, negative towards myself with it all. So I understood, I understood if someone said that, I sort of got it and understood it, which is why like, um, I find it interesting when you hear people say, I'm like, I'm completely happy with the weight that I am Uh, it— that makes me feel uncomfortable. Like, so say if you're overweight, if you are morbidly obese, and it's just like, I'm happy the exact— like, exactly how I am. For me, what I associate that with is, um, you've lost hope in making positive change. And I think it's very difficult because there is a huge amount of vanity like what I'm seeking isn't necessarily health as it is like wearing clothes that feel good to fit in, right? Because like for me, my weight is also associated with, uh, what I wear, which is how I walk and how I talk. And so it's all ingrained in all of that other stuff. It's like when I was a kid, we never bought me nice clothes because it was always, well, Josh is gonna outgrow the clothes. It's like, why would you invest nice clothes into this body. And so I think that for me, like, that there's— and that's not necessarily— there could be another side of it, which is, um, uh, maybe you should buy— not, you know, like you watch, um, Queer Eye for the Straight Guy or whatever. When I was a kid, that was like the thing I used to love watching. And, um, they would be very much—

Tommy: 2011 look.

Josh: Yeah, it is. Yeah, no, that was the, um, yeah, no, even prior, the 2006, you know, going casual school day, you know, wear what you want. And I'd wear like you know, the stripe, the vertical stripe. I was wearing a business shirt to Year 8 because it was slimming.

Tommy: It's, um, you're right, it's business year.

Josh: And so, um, yeah, I mean, the thing is, I said this on Discord, is it's like, um, I, uh, yeah, I've gotten very comfortable with like, ah, this is how I feel, this is my, this is my opinion of myself, this is how I, this is what I'm reconciling. It feels like it would be unfair to— which I think we've done before, which is like, shut up about it, have that battle at home, have the— like, you know, there's a lot of people who won't eat around people, and then they'll go and they'll stuff their faces and all that sort of thing. Like, a lot of the, the damage happens after 8 PM. Um, and so, and it is— it feels like— I think maybe because it is an external thing, you can really, like, you can see it. It's easier for, like, there is like an extra level of judgement because you can see it happening. And there's like so many storeys around, like, similar to, like, think about what, how I am when it comes to episodes. I'm like, episode 800, I want this, like, it to be this or to do that. Or by episode 900, like, that's been my, um, that's been my weight. Like, that's what my weight's been. It's been like, when I get to 85 kilos, I'm buying new clothes. Like, I don't think that's— like, how many people, I wonder, like, how many of the gronks have said, I'm not going to buy nice clothes now because I don't plan on being this, this body, this weight?

Tommy: Yeah, I'm sure, I'm sure.

Josh: What's insecurity-wise? I mean, we've spoken a lot about my insecurities. Sevs, where are your— where do your insecurities lie?

Mason: Um, I mean, there's— I think that the, the more that I haven't been to the gym, just being at home, I think I've, I think I've realised that there's actually more of a body image, uh, insecurity that you have. And so the, yeah, the, the idea of me not training is, I guess, like, it's, yeah, it affects the way that I perceive myself.

Tommy: So it's just not, not training brings it on.

Mason: Yeah, yeah. So when I'm not training, it's like, oh, hang on, like, like my abs have gone down. It's, it's— and it's like, yeah, I mean, it sounds so dumb, right?

Josh: Well, everything's right.

Mason: You still get abs, but it's like, yeah, it's just like that dumb stuff.

Josh: Well, because if you, if you do— like, that's what— like, because I definitely— I remember, um, the frustration where you would hear people like, I'm trying to put on weight. Like, Jack Post is one of those guys who was like, he's been training— like, he's him and I, it was like he was going to the gym to try and bulk up and, and gain weight. And I was always like, man, what I would do to just, you know, be in that position. But everything's relative, right? Which I think is the, um, the bit that I'm wary of is it's like, so you've got like, even if you've, you're lean and all that sort of thing, you are still perceiving yourself in that negative way.

Mason: Yeah, yeah.

Tommy: The body dysmorphia. I think I become more vain the more I train and get a better physique. The worst physique, I'm just like less thought about it. And so it's an— yeah, interesting because it's the opposite. I mean, I still do think about it if I'm not training, and then— but when I am in that mode, it pulls me back. It's like Mike Tyson saying when he boxes, it brings out his ego.

Josh: Well, yeah, there's definitely the, um, it's like a connector to something.

Tommy: And training can be the connector to vanity. But there is an element of getting in the gym, it is like help— it's advantageous with goal setting and seeing progress. Likewise the opposite. But it's so complex, you know, it's like, that is, we cannot compare our body to someone else's body. Like, there's some that have more similar versions. It's, you know, and so that's where it is hard. It is a comparison trap if you're zooming out slightly, if you're looking at Jack Post.

Josh: Well, I think that part of it also is that you end up, um, like, from an idea— so much of it is identity. So it's saying, okay, like, I'll, um, I can be, uh, super helpful. Like, I remember just, like, feeling like you have to make up for it. It's like, okay, well, if I'm not going to, um, tick these boxes, I better be good. Like, I reckon as a kid, like, my obsession with technology and stuff is like, well, fuck, like, what am I going to be good at? Like, what can I, what can I do? But it's interesting because I think like Bree and I are very— I think why I've become more comfortable with it in regards to talking about it, or being not unapologetic but just being like, let's, let me talk about my experience rather, because I think that there's definitely—

Tommy: Don't tell Josh how to think about how when he was—

Josh: Yeah, well, I think that's the thing. Like, it's like, no, this is bad, you can't be talking about this. And it's like like Bree has this, the same issues, right? Which is just like, and it's also the same, there's so much habitual stuff. I'm like, I'm sure that this is more common than like the eating, like just being like, you know what, like how many times have, have we said, oh, you know what, like Monday, like we have these great conversations, they're so productive, and it's like, yeah, so we're going to dial all this in and it's going to be really good and we're going to— and it's like, yeah. And we— so we agree and then like, we're like, okay, good. It's like, well, what do we want our last meal to be? And like, the amount of times we've had our last meal. Yeah, yeah. Like, I even like Whoppers. I had a Whopper on Sunday. Did you? Yeah, it's fucking putrid. Okay, the, the, um The patty was quite grey.

George: Last time I had one, I thought I was going to shit my pants.

Tommy: Got it in there. Yeah, shit yourself in there.

Josh: Georgie boy, what's it— can you relate to any of it? Like, do you have any insecurities like this sort of thing?

George: Body image insecurities? I mean, a little bit, just like everyone else, but probably more— it's more putting yourself out there insecurities, I guess. And it's getting easier and easier after doing this show. But, you know, that's probably the biggest one, just worrying about what people think of you. And when you put yourself out there, I think that's your identity. For me, it's the work that you're putting out.

Josh: Is there any negative stuff that you think about? Like, what are the negative things that you think people are saying or thinking about you?

Tommy: Because I know.

Josh: Yeah, I can list them, but it's nice if you do.

George: I don't know. I actually don't know. It's just more like People will think stuff is shit and that's fine, but it's annoying.

Josh: So you're pretty secure, like, so on the spectrum, like, I've always said that you've got quite a good sentiment.

Mason: Is that like, uh, uh, uh, temperament?

Josh: Temperament. Thank you. Sentiments because we've been speaking with Rain Man. Temperament.

Tommy: Temperament.

Josh: Like, you're very sort of— and I think that that's part of it, maybe. Like, I think that Because maybe you have less negative self-talk.

George: Yeah.

Josh: You're less likely to, to like need to express it in some way.

George: Yeah, I guess so. Yeah, I try to not be negative, but I'm an anxious guy, I reckon. Like, that's the thing. It's like—

Josh: About what though?

George: I don't know, just about saying the right things and making people happy and Putting stuff out there that people like and that I like and all these things.

Josh: People pleaser.

George: Yeah, I reckon I am. I mean, most of us are at some level trying to, which is something I'm trying to not be as much of because, you know, you gotta please yourself first, I guess.

Josh: I guess. Did we get that clear? Pretty selfish. It's the, um Yeah, I think it's put the face mask on yourself first, you know, the whole plane thing. Yeah.

Tommy: I think for you, Josh, you have— the joke is that I'm perfect, which I am.

Josh: Yeah, it's not much of a joke.

Tommy: No, but that is— you're great at identifying things in people that they might not even realize. Like, how much have you thought, George, about looking at yourself like that? Talk about it, talking about it like this.

George: Yeah, I haven't thought about too much, to be honest.

Tommy: Like, we called it out, as in, in a nice way. It's like, you're the dude whose mood is pretty, pretty steady. Like, do you blow up? And it was a thing you never— like, haven't seen you blow up. Still waiting. Yeah, love to see that.

Mason: But you definitely—

Tommy: the perfect thing is definitely linked to, uh, not insecurity. I haven't seen it as an insecurity, but it's probably what it is, but I haven't associated it being the way, you know, how I thought an insecurity might play out, you know, like insecure about your body is a different version to insecurity about an internal processing. And so that internal processing could be people pleasing, which is an insecurity. But for me, it's like, uh, doing stuff right or being perfect, whatever that version of whatever you think that is, I think is quite accurate. I don't know how to articulate it quite well, but It's the image, it's the how people see you. It's the, you know, it's like a— what was that?

Mason: Windows?

Josh: Yeah, yeah. I don't think that's actually going through the stream. I just got a Windows update.

Tommy: But you know what I'm saying? Like, I don't even know how to quite articulate it, but that's the insecurity for me, I think, is the—

Josh: well, yeah, I guess there's the, um, like, I think that for you and I, when we've spoken, it's around you've got a great— you had a great network when we started. And a lot of the sort of, um, work connections started off with friendships. And so when it's based on friendship, you weren't necessarily always feeling like nepotism or whatever has a negative side to it, which is like, if you've got skills, if you think that you are the right person and someone says, hey, I'm hiring you this for, you know, hiring you for this job because I like you, that becomes its own identity issues because it's like you have good skills. Like, it's not like, like when people say would communicate that, I feel like I would push back on it because like, no, you're also the person for the job.

Tommy: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then it's success too, right? It's like I think I've put emphasis on achieving, you know, like the path that we choose ends up being one of you know, the external validation, and that being views or likes or people liking you. And so then that is a version of, uh, serving the perfection. So it's like, I can do the thing, you know. And I think I've got it before it's a problem where I really am wrapped up in that as in, in terms of my identity. And you just, you see the sort of uselessness of it really and not serving you. Does serve you to a degree because you end up having wins. And you know, when someone says, oh mate, this is your fucking year and you're like, yeah, fuck yeah. Like, and I even remember that as a moment. Someone said that to me and lots of good things happened that year. And I was like, yeah, you know, that's, that's ego. Yeah, almost.

Josh: But it's also you're, you're very good at like looking at the positives in things.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: And I think maybe that's why we work well together, because I'm always like, oh no, we need to be doing better, or no, we can't— like, as soon as we take something and celebrate it, we're like slowing down or dropping the ball. Yeah.

Tommy: Tell you what, I've dropped the ball. I need to do a Ben Fordham shout out.

Josh: Before you do the Fordham shout out, do it now. Hello, hello. You want to put it in there? You want to put it in the mic?

Tommy: Yeah, here we go. I'm going to go from the side. This is fun. Our new megaphone sponsor is Ben Fordham. Thought I would be returning as a new host of Breakfast on 2GB.

Josh: Started yesterday.

Tommy: Tune in to Ben Fordham Live from Monday to Friday, 5:30 AM till 9 AM on 2GB, or search Ben Fordham Live on your favourite podcast app. And if you want to hit— knock Ben Fordham off his, uh, megaphone sponsorship naming rights, $255 cash PayPal. Hi@thedailytalkshow.com, you'll have it from next week. Sorry to get that in there on the same sort of transmission. Porto, love you. Gotta make money around here, mate.

Josh: I didn't like that megaphone technique. You didn't? No. Why? It was, um, your actual vocals were sort of bleeding through it, so it didn't— it's fine.

Tommy: Live and learn, you know. Live and learn.

Josh: Yeah, only if you do something different next time.

George: I will.

Tommy: It's this thing. In fact, it was—

Josh: Yeah.

Mason: So he's using—

Josh: TJ's using the extender, which allows you to sort of place the megaphone at waist height to— Shooting from the hip. Yes. Actually, I got a call. Did I tell you, Georgie Boy and Seb, I got a call from Ben last night. And yeah, he called. I was like, what's— how's Fordo got time? Like, he's just got a new show.

Tommy: Yeah, he had the Premier of New South Wales.

Josh: He had the Prime Minister. Prime Minister.

Tommy: Of the country and now he's calling Gronkh Jansen.

Josh: Yeah.

George: What time was he calling you?

Josh: It would have been like 5:40. Bedtime. It was when I was walking home and he said, I'm happy.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: At first, the funny thing is when he calls, I sort of feel like explaining, like, this isn't recorded, you know, this isn't being recorded because like—

Tommy: Is that your own insecurity that Ben Fordham doesn't like you as a person?

George: No, no.

Josh: It's because he's like, He's taking the whole thing very, very seriously. Mate, I was worried. He's like, I was worried that you gronks weren't going to get the job done. I listened in, I heard it. I'm liking what I'm hearing. Yes. I was like, I thought, yeah, I'm just walking at the moment, fordo. He's like, yeah, it was very good.

Tommy: He's a businessman. He is a businessman.

George: Is he going to buy another week?

Josh: Well, I don't know if he'll buy another week, but I did mention, I said to him, how about that contra? How about the potential of getting the Daily Talk Show mentioned on 2GB?

Tommy: That's huge. That's a big win for the boys.

Josh: And so, he said he thinks that he could do it. He thinks that maybe the way of incorporating it is saying something like, you know, it's been a, you know, I've done everything. It's been a big week.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: I've even sponsored a megaphone on a podcast called The Daily Talk Show, which I feel like is a good— He needs to work out a way of doing it in fact, right? Like he needs to sort of incorporate it in a way rather than it just being a promo.

Tommy: If anything, what we love is people talking about the megaphone in the most serious manner. Our accountant's been put on talkback radio.

Josh: What's another way? Like, what's another way of getting on talkback? What could we do? In talkability? Melbourne? No, I think like, how do we How do we do something so outrageous or fun that Fordo would actually be like, hey, the producer's calling, would love to have you on talking about it?

Tommy: Yeah, well, I mean, there's the, um, it's been used up. Last week was, uh, Sev's on FM talking about his relationship to not AM enough.

Josh: Yeah, yeah. What's something like, um, something COVID related?

Tommy: Yeah, I mean, there's a lot going on in the world at the moment. I feel like we're at the sort of back end of the priority list and the importance. I mean, he's covering some big topics on that show. I'll be thanking my lucky stars if we can get on that show.

Josh: Or maybe it's better if we don't get mentioned. It's like, yeah, I'm all for a mention, but just if he—

Tommy: Ben Fordham will be able to drop it in. I've been on his show before. Have you been?

Josh: You I feel like I have.

Tommy: We, um, there was a podcasting interview. He was talking about podcasting.

Josh: I, um, last night I decided, you know what I'm like with my subscriptions, I've added to my subscriptions.

George: Oh.

Josh: I added The Age because I'd hit the limit and I was very happy. I don't know who mentioned The Age.

Tommy: I think I did.

Josh: Isn't it? I think I did. Isn't it crazy, though, that like these things that would be considered just common knowledge, like a newspaper, like a local newspaper. Like, it's just gone over my head for all these years. Like, I'm turning 30 this year.

George: Yeah, right.

Tommy: Welcome to the club. I'm listening to 774 ABC in the morning.

Josh: Like, the last time I would have read The Age would have been like doing like a critical piece in Year 10 English.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: We had to read an article.

Mason: What is it?

George: What is it about?

Josh: It's a newspaper.

Mason: What is it about The Age that you love?

Josh: So, I wouldn't know.

Mason: Because I get the different sort of like angles and perspectives.

Tommy: Is it aligning with your political views?

Josh: No. So, no.

Tommy: It's feeling—

Josh: It's some— There's more sort of thought-provoking topics, but also like I feel like on news.com.au, I never know what's happening in Victoria in regards— Like you only hear of something like a drug dealer kills his partner or something, right. Whereas on The Age it was like, oh, here's these plans. Like Daniel Andrews has hired his mate. Yeah. And like, you know, and you don't hear much, I guess, because news.com.au, like, I'm pretty dumb, but news.com.au, I guess a national tabloid. Is that what you'd call it? Tabloid?

Tommy: Is that a tabloid site?

George: I don't know.

Tommy: Site. So, Amy works for a construction company and they're doing a development just on our street, other side of Victoria Street. And they were pulling up, you know, doing sort of demolition inside and they ripped up the floorboard, the carpet, and then underneath the carpet, back in the old day, rather than sort of like some sort of liner, like a, you know, squishy one, they used to use newspaper. So, Amy's boss took from the site these big sheets of old newspaper and it was yellow back in the day. And I've seen this before. I know.

Josh: I just assumed that it goes yellow over time. Yeah, true.

Tommy: Cannot confirm.

Josh: I'm sure.

George: Cannot confirm.

Josh: It's just based on the age of the paper.

George: That's what I would guess.

Tommy: Yep. Well, I said yellow and I just was taking a punt.

Josh: I was like, yeah, yellow.

Tommy: And she's like, yeah, it's yellow. I've got it on my desk. So, I've just asked her to send me a message with a photo of something. She said back, she said the one that she's got on her desk is like talking about the cutest shit. It's like, you know, Jill and Bill are moving from Tamworth down to Victoria this week and they're like, it's, that's the news.

Josh: Yeah. I like that.

Tommy: Yeah, it's sweet. It's very sweet. So hopefully I can, hopefully within the show I can get a little snippet and read out something from 1940s.

Josh: But Bree's being very good with like dialling in the subscriptions and making sure that they're all accounted for. Like we've got a spreadsheet that has everything listed.

George: Right.

Josh: And the funny thing was I used, she realises what I'm doing straight away when I pull the credit card out. So, when I pull the credit card out, I've got my phone. She's always asking, what are you doing?

Tommy: It's either two things, OnlyFans or subscriptions.

Josh: Found another one. One. Um, and no, so I, um, I thought I was being clever because I, uh, I used Apple, um, the Apple Pay thing, like using sort of like through in-app purchase.

Mason: Yeah, yeah.

Josh: And so I was like, you're just being deceptive, not clever. So I do that, and so I'm on my phone, I've just signed up, so I'm in bed and I just do it and I click it and I'm like feeling really good and I've got articles. And I, um, and I look over to Bree and she's on her phone like, what are you doing? And she has her spreadsheet open. She's like, the age 749. She saw everything I was doing and she's put it in to the spreadsheet.

George: What are you at?

Tommy: What's your number? Because I want the— my video idea for you years ago, this is before you had it in, had it sort of handled. My idea was let's get, you know, cards, write out all the subscriptions, put them up on the wall like a web, like we're doing in investigation.

Josh: 160 a month.

Tommy: 160 a month of subscriptions solely for just bits and pieces. How many are active as in consuming at a— let's do this percentage-wise.

Josh: How about this? Here's a good little life hack. Did you know that I think you have to be signed up to Audible in one of their subscription things, but they give New York Times Digests in audio form. And so, last night when I went to bed, I got like 50 minutes of the top storeys of the New York Times read out to me.

Tommy: Gosh, you wouldn't have been sleeping well.

Josh: That's fine. I just have it on. The problem was I lost one of my AirPods.

Tommy: Last night?

Josh: Last night in bed.

Tommy: Oh, the pros.

Josh: Oh, in bed. But it was very hard. Like, we pulled apart everything. It turns out it was just on Bree's side of the bed, but it was the last place we checked. Because when you fall asleep with them, it is difficult. Wow.

Tommy: I've got, I've got this. You can't really see it, but it's just like—

Josh: This is the newspaper.

Tommy: All old ads.

Josh: What is the ad for?

Tommy: Oh, it's like a cartoon, dude. What's this? Goal to the greatest football picture ever made. Brown and Harvard. Hoyts. It's a cinema. Oh, it's like an ad, a hand-drawn ad for a movie. Wow. Leggotts. American Mighty Dollar Night tonight. Wattlepath's Palace, St Kilda. Perfect. Like, this is just ads. Wow. It's all hand-drawn. There's no printing of photos on here. That is cool. What they're planning on doing is framing it and then putting it into the building that they're developing. Oh, that's so cool. Like, here's a bit of history from the building. I mean, what's that for us around here? It's a bit of a picture of George in his bunker, his little studio downstairs.

George: Yeah, I remember we found newspaper, not me, but my sister found newspapers under this house that they, our friend was renting. And yeah, it's crazy. It was like Don Bradman scored 100, like that sort of thing. Stories about Hitler.

Tommy: Wow.

George: I might have made that up. Not sure.

Tommy: That sounds pretty good. That sounds real good.

Josh: You're wearing a different hat today, George.

George: New hat.

Tommy: Mum got him a hat.

Josh: Is it the Telstra logo?

Mason: Oh, he's hooking everyone up.

Josh: Is it?

George: Yeah, it's Carhartt. It's a—

Tommy: what's that? Yeah, good.

George: It's a beanie brand.

Tommy: I think they do a bunch of stuff.

George: Well, and it's corduroy.

Tommy: So corduroy. You are the only guy on the team that would wear corduroy. And that's—

Josh: is it a silent D? Is it corduroy? Is it got no D in it?

Tommy: Corduroy.

Josh: Corduroy.

Tommy: Is it a D?

Josh: No, I think I'm probably wrong.

George: Corduroy.

Josh: Can you look it up? Corduroy. I thought I'd be saying it wrong. Yeah, when I was a kid, I said it wrong.

George: Yeah, corduroy.

Josh: Corduroy. Oh, there you go. Corduroy. Millions.

George: Millions.

Mason: Millions.

Tommy: Millions and millions of corduroy pants.

Josh: I did have some, some of those pants, the blue ones.

Tommy: Back in the day though.

Josh: Yeah.

Mason: Did you?

Tommy: Not nowadays.

Josh: No.

Tommy: No. I bought some in 2012 from America, and it's just about being in America thinking that you're cooler than you are. And you get home, you're like, absolutely not. What was I thinking?

Josh: I mean, how is— how dial do you like Georgie Boy when it comes to subscriptions and news? And how much are you considering all of this stuff?

George: Subscriptions or news or both?

Josh: Both.

George: Because subscriptions, I've got quite a few as well. Uh, I don't think I'd have $160 worth, but I've probably got 70-ish.

Josh: What have you got?

George: Oh, just like all the streaming services.

Mason: Um, you got the latest one, Binge?

George: No, I haven't got Binge.

Mason: Are you gonna get it?

George: No, not interested.

Josh: Um, well, so Seb's Grace is a bit of a spender. She's already— she's got Binge.

Mason: I think so. I think she's got the 14-day.

Josh: So what is it? So she's got Binge.

Mason: Yep. Stan.

Josh: Stan. But she's also got YouHoo or whatever the fuck it's called.

George: Hey You.

Josh: Hey You, sorry.

Mason: And then Netflix.

Tommy: Yeah, I mean, that's pretty standard. There's a lot of people that have that.

Mason: It's a lot of streaming.

George: Yeah, I got Amazon, Stan, HeyU.

Josh: Okay, what are you using HeyU for?

George: Hannah loves it, she watches it.

Mason: It's reality TV.

George: Yeah, it's quite good. Like, maybe I'm dipping in and out. Yeah, but I don't know, I don't know many people who've got news subscriptions.

Mason: Like, what's the pushback against ABC? Like, what's—

Tommy: why? There's no subscription there.

Mason: Yeah, so that's what I mean. So why would you sign up?

Josh: I haven't looked at ABC, I don't know what their offering is.

Mason: There's not. It's free. It's—

Josh: but what is there?

Tommy: It's behind a paywall that Josh likes. Yeah, that's the whole joke. He's getting more— technically he is. If you feel like you're getting more value out of the Aged paywall, it's like, I am slightly uncomfortable consuming shit for free based on— mate, how are they making money?

Josh: How are they making money? Like, if you want top quality journalism, government funded.

Mason: It's top quality.

Tommy: Sure. That's how they do it. I would prefer it.

Josh: Just podcast.

Mason: Yeah, literally. I'll be interested to see the funding is probably very similar to what someone like The Age has.

Josh: Okay.

Mason: Like in terms of like resources, I think it'd be very similar.

Josh: So, do you think I should move to take a subscription?

Tommy: I mean, just give it a go.

Mason: Just take a look at the articles on ABC when you go to bed or whenever you look at the news.

Tommy: I don't think ABC does that.

George: It's fine.

Tommy: You don't buy— Like the reason Brands do—

Josh: like, do you think I'm being a poser again?

Tommy: No, I think it's actually working though. You buy a Ferrari for a reason. It's about the brand.

Josh: And so what's the ABC if the age is a Ferrari?

Tommy: You just think that the money— like, there's some connection between you spending $7 a month connecting to the quality of the— not saying it's real, it's just you and what you— you— it's as real as the ABC is.

Josh: Like Catching the tram. No, that's not offensive. Trams are great. No, but trams are great.

Tommy: So, in the free zone.

Josh: No, no. So, but the thing is there were a lot of like a lot of wealthy people who choose the tram over driving from like an environmental perspective. No?

Mason: Sure.

Tommy: Yeah. And so, yeah, I get it.

Josh: And so, it's like the tram is it's not— there's no status to a tram. There's all different. There's rich, there's poor, there's everywhere, one in between on a tram. Like the ABC.

Tommy: And so you're, you're an elitist at The Age who would never catch a fucking tram and reads The Age and laughs.

Mason: I'm only Uber Black.

Josh: I feel like The Age, people reading The Age would 100% get behind the tram. But yeah, no, there was when I was reading it Um, like last night I was thinking to myself, I'm like, man, how fucking dumb was I before the age? I'm just like, what was I reading? Like, this now, this is, this is, uh, journalism.

Tommy: Well, you have like Patreon subscriptions.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: Do you feel— does it— is there a difference in how you feel other than supporting your mates, D'Avella and shit like that? What do you feel like when you pay $7 a month to get exclusive access to content.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: What does it make you feel?

Josh: Well, I think that part of it, I think about how much did an album used to— How much would an album cost back in the day?

George: $14?

Josh: $20?

George: Maybe.

Tommy: Oh, yeah. Yeah, I remember, actually.

Josh: Yeah, it was like $19.95. Just even the standard one.

George: Yeah.

Josh: $20. Like, comparatively. Content is very, very, very cheap than what it's, what it's been.

Tommy: And so at what point can you make free content paid content? Because I guess that's the predicament brands that offer free stuff, you know, for a long time and then take it behind a paywall.

Josh: I think it's probably because they need to make, they need to be able to pay the people that are in there.

Tommy: How the cons— as a consumer What does it for you? What ticks the box of going, yes, it's worth being paid for?

George: Yes.

Tommy: What is that for you?

Josh: Um, so for Dia Vela, he's doing exclusive content that's just for Patreon that's very inside baseball, showing the tech, extra Q&As. I like that stuff.

Tommy: Um, niche, niche access. Yeah.

Josh: But there's, I think there's a bunch of people, I reckon like even Kevin Rose, if Kevin Rose had a subscription that I had paid for.

Mason: Oh, I'd pay for that.

Josh: I'd pay for that.

Mason: Yeah.

Josh: Yeah. Like I reckon, Georgie Boy, anyone, any content creator that if they came out and said $10 a month to sign up and you get exclusives from them, would you do it? Any, any.

George: Well, the only one that I've paid for is the Hamish and Andy app.

Josh: I've paid for that too. Which is like $14 a year or some shit.

George: Yeah, it's stupid. Less, I think it's like $7 a year.

Josh: Yeah.

George: Um, but that's probably, that's probably it, to be honest.

Tommy: Do you think in the future it's good, people are going to be more primed to be paying at the subscription level for everything?

Josh: So for all, all of their favourite creators, surely there's got to be some sort of global platform that manages it all, because I think part of it is the annoyance of like, I think the in-app stuff helps, but the problem is that it's, um, we're giving a bunch to the, um, to Apple. And that's what I think the ACCC— have you guys seen this about, um, there's a bunch of negotiation that's happening at the moment with media companies and Facebook? Facebook in Australia, some like huge amounts of revenue here. Yeah, yeah. It's like, well, hang on, if they're— if people are on the platform to then go to these places for content should they not be sharing that cash, sharing the revenue?

Mason: Which—

Tommy: I think it makes sense.

Mason: Yeah, I mean, that's what Brave, the browser, is there for. I mean, Brave, so there's— it's, it's like a fork of Google Chrome.

Tommy: It's a fork.

Mason: It's like they've taken the code base and then just edited and modified it to however they want.

Tommy: Is it Google?

Mason: No, it's a different company, but same, same look and feel as Firefox. Yeah, Chrome, based on Chrome.

Tommy: The ripoff artist.

Josh: No, it's like open source. So yeah, it's like, um, you could create— you could take WordPress and you could say, I'm going to make a specific version, a content management system that's for real estate agents. And so you could use all the code in WordPress and create something and fork it to something else. Okay. Or for instance, it's like, um, if you had an app that required Chrome, you could fork that version of Chrome we could have the Daily Talk Show browser, which has some extra features or things like that. Yeah. And so anyway, what's—

Mason: so they've— I think they've got Brave Rewards, which is essentially like microtransactions. So every time you visit a publisher's website and they're set up with Brave, you're giving— it's based on like cryptocurrencies and stuff, but you're giving a microtransaction to them. And so they're earning money through traffic and through views directly to them.

Josh: And that's what Mike Miller's doing with VDH as well. Like, he's doing stuff with like paying creators. But I guess we just—

Tommy: Small amounts.

Josh: Well, not even small amounts. Like, whatever amounts. Like a subscription type thing where it's all within an app.

Tommy: Sam Harris does the subscription model, but also donation model and also offers it for free if you can't do either of those. But it's amazing. Like, you can pay to have access to his full podcasts. And again, I— on the site, there's just like, no questions asked. If you can't pay for it, just click here. And so, click there. And then it sent me this thing where I opened up the podcast app and then it took me to a whole new feed like this. I've never seen this before.

Josh: It's like private podcasts.

Tommy: It's like a private podcast feed. And then you've got like his black logo. Which is unpaid, and Red Logo, which gets full feed. It's really interesting, like all these sort of new models that are coming out.

Josh: It feels— and that's why when you talk about audience, scale actually becomes a thing, because it's like, okay, well, if you want to make money, you just need more people paying you the $7 a month or whatever it is. Um, yeah, I do want like look at something like SiriusXM in the US, which has Howard Stern, or even, um, I guess Spotify. You're still going to be able to access all of Joe Rogan's content.

Tommy: I love that people are saying Joe Rogan's worth $5 billion, but it's just that's the headline, and then you go into it, it's like the share price of Spotify that went up, what's that worth, and then connecting it to Joe and deal that he made.

Josh: A lot of that stuff. Yeah, it's like the—

Tommy: I get what I get—

Josh: BRW's rich list. Like, they just make shit up.

Tommy: Yeah, yeah. Do I need to do another one before we go?

Mason: Sure do.

Tommy: He's on to it, isn't he? Oh, sorry, sorry guys, I need to pull up the script.

Josh: Just getting the megaphone ready.

Tommy: Our new megaphone sponsor is Ben Fordham. Fordham will be returning as the new host of Breakfast on 2GB. Tune in to Ben Fordham Live from Monday to Friday, 5:30 AM to 9 AM on 2GB or search Ben Fordham Live on your fave podcast app. Georgie Boy and I were just having a little listen this morning on the app in Melbourne. There's the future for you. That's it.

George: He loves adding bits in, doesn't he?

Mason: Yeah, he does.

Tommy: I go off script. I cannot be trusted.

Josh: I like it, I guess.

Mason: I like it.

Josh: I guess. 10 seconds of admin. Did you know you can actually subscribe? It's a podcast. You can do it and also give us a review. Apple Podcasts. Thank you. And guess what?

Tommy: What?

Josh: It's free. It is. Yeah, you ungrateful fucks. Completely free, and you haven't even left a review. Now think about it for a sec. Think about all the time, the energy.

Mason: Nothing, it's just a few button clicks.

Tommy: Nothing like guilting listeners into leaving reviews or donating.

Josh: I just wanted to say ungrateful fuck. There's something very funny about that, right? Yeah, you were Were you ever called an ungrateful fuck as a kid? I definitely was.

Tommy: Definitely, definitely not the F word. My mum didn't swear at me, only in the worst moments.

Josh: So I had a few of those.

Josh: That is the rationale I give myself when I'm feeling not confident about something. I was like, mate, you're getting this for free.

Tommy: Good self-talk.

Josh: Right, it's, uh, the Daily Talk Show. See you tomorrow, guys. See you guys.