Ryan Jon & The Ham Delivery!

Ryan: Wait a minute! Frostface! The Daily Talk Show, a conversation sometimes worth recording with Josh Janson and Tommy Jackett.

Josh: It's The Daily Talk Show 244 is the number. It's a Fat Friday. Yes. Ryan John is in the building.

Ryan: Good to be here for the Daily Talk Show Christmas party.

Tommy: Yeah, yeah, it was the impromptu Christmas party.

Josh: We, um, big media company Christmas party.

Tommy: Yeah, it's the last day of the working year for majority of people. How long you been on holidays now?

Ryan: 2 weeks. And I did call you earlier in the week. Yeah, and you said, 'Us commercial radio fucks in your lazy Christmas holiday month.' Yes, and I didn't disagree.

Tommy: Yeah, yeah, you— I mean, you— it's when you're in a metro market, you actually get the the survey periods.

Ryan: Yeah, whereas when you were in Shepparton, the survey break was the whole time you were there. What did you get, a survey?

Tommy: No, no surveys. It was just work, take a little bit of time off each year, and work Saturdays, please.

Josh: The thing about the podcast though, we don't really need to have these big celebrations because we're gonna be on doing the podcast the 24th, the 25th, the 26th. There's no break. So we can't blow our load too early.

Ryan: So you're having a Christmas Day edition. What's gonna happen on that?

Josh: We've got Matt D'Avella, The Minimalist, on the show.

Ryan: I've been, since you guys mentioned him, watching some of his stuff on YouTube.

Josh: He's pretty good, isn't he?

Ryan: Yeah, he's great. He's pretty handy.

Josh: It's just like, he has the full, like he's got everything I think a good YouTuber needs.

Ryan: Which is?

Josh: Good production value, consistency, and biceps. J, aren't you impressed by his biceps?

Ryan: I haven't paid that much attention, but I, now that you mention it, yeah.

Josh: No, they're really solid.

Tommy: Well, he works on them. That's the difference between most people.

Ryan: So the Daily Talk Show now has a pod— sorry, a YouTube channel, right?

Josh: Yeah.

Ryan: So if they were the keys to good YouTubing, you guys, A, consistent, tick.

Tommy: Not on YouTube.

Josh: No, that's the thing.

Ryan: Okay, well, there's some work for 2019. What was the other one? Production value.

Josh: Production value.

Ryan: How's your production value?

Tommy: Uh, production value when we do do something is high.

Ryan: And your biceps?

Josh: Yeah, biceps. Let's feel yours because we're feeling my, um, yeah, what is that muscle called?

Tommy: Uh, your, is it brachialis? The forearm, like your, um, radialis and brachialis, I think it is. Your forearm, forearm muscles.

Josh: Not to get too smutty, but we'll sort of We're playing a game of guess which arm I masturbate with.

Tommy: Yeah, and my comment was, because it's like a classic caricature of some guy who's got a big forearm on one arm.

Josh: Yes.

Tommy: It's like, how much does that dude actually masturbate? Because that's the weird thing about the dude with the big forearm. But then Josh is like, oh no, hang on, try it out, feel my hand, feel my forearm, which one is harder, and it just went down a real weird rabbit hole. There's some statements that I hadn't heard out of a male's mouth before.

Josh: What do you mean a male's mouth?

Tommy: A male's mouth.

Josh: But a female's mouth you've heard it?

Tommy: No, I'm just referring to men because men have penises, and if you're a female with a penis, you can relate. But I'm just saying men who masturbate.

Ryan: I always saw Josh as a very sweet, innocent, lovely man. Yeah, until he said it. It shocked me.

Josh: I'm sorry, guys.

Ryan: I was shocked.

Tommy: I love it that we're not even gonna say what it is.

Josh: But it sounds filthy.

Tommy: It wasn't even that. No, it was just a bit weird. It was like, dude, have you actually grown up?

Josh: What do you mean grown up? What was the bit?

Ryan: The conversation that happened in the bar downstairs before this podcast could have happened in a grade 5 playground.

Tommy: Yeah, yeah, a bunch of guys that we've just discovered masturbation.

Josh: But nothing's changed, has it? It's nice to be able to Yeah, it's a daily talk show, so 2:44. Yeah, is that your reset?

Ryan: Yeah, that's me, that's me wrapping this up.

Tommy: Yeah, yeah, no, I like it, like it.

Josh: So Ryan John, for people who are new to Ryan, you're normally in WA doing your breakfast show.

Tommy: You're a Melbourne at heart, Melbournite by heart.

Ryan: Yeah, born and here for most of high school until I moved off.

Josh: Yeah, if you say born and bred and then realise it's just like real fucking bogan.

Ryan: Yeah, I didn't actually know what bred meant.

Josh: Yeah, it sounds like you're some form of like litter of dogs.

Tommy: Well, Ryan's not doing carbs, so he didn't wanna mention bread.

Josh: Sorry, we do a lot of carbs downstairs in the pub.

Tommy: Is this third time on the show?

Ryan: Well, third time as a full episode guest, but I made a brief cameo, was it early this week when we were talking about the Bon Bon Airy?

Tommy: Fourth, I reckon you're up there with Derek, Scooter Derek is the highest return rate.

Ryan: Well, that is my goal for 2019 to be the most, regular, regular guest on The Daily Dose Show.

Josh: Most dumps in a day, that's what you're hoping for.

Ryan: So who's this Scooter Derek? How many times has he been on?

Tommy: Twice, 2 solid episodes. But he's, did he crash one?

Josh: From Big Brother? Yes.

Tommy: So Big Brother, yeah, first one Big Brother and then crashed an episode legit by accident. You just can't do that because actually technically you can, you did it the other day. Yeah. But Derek literally walked into our studio here I was like, oh God. And then he came in all flustered.

Ryan: Because today is the Christmas party of the Daily Talk Show. And like you said, for most people, it's the traditional last Friday of the year. How are you guys gonna look back at the podcast for 2018 in terms of how do you think it's gone? How do you think you guys are performing? And what's your thoughts on, and you don't just have to say this 'cause I'm here, but some podcasts specifically don't have guests 'cause they think it's better without, others are all guests all the time.

Josh: Sure.

Ryan: What's your read on 2018 and what you've learned?

Josh: Do you want me to go first, TJ?

Tommy: You can go first.

Josh: Okay, I think the thing that we've learned is that we're not one or the other. We're not a guest show, we're not just a personality show. And the way I was describing this to Peter Shepherd yesterday, we're talking about it, it's like a— Pistol Pete, new nickname. Pistol Pete is actually a guy I worked with, I called Pistol Pete.

Tommy: Yeah, there's probably about a million Periscope Pete.

Josh: I like Periscope Pete.

Tommy: Yeah, Periscope Pete.

Josh: But no, it's trying to emulate what a friendship is. And so the thing is that if you just talk about tactics and how to be more creative and all that sort of thing, you know, a real friendship is about being able to talk about how you wank and for it to be okay. And so I think that that's probably—

Ryan: It's relatable for a lot of people.

Josh: And so I think that that is probably part of it. What does it mean to you, Tash?

Tommy: Well, are you saying that so the podcast that is the same every time is like going to a party and there's that guy in the corner talking about the exact same thing every time. You feel like he goes deep a lot and you're just like, today I don't feel like going deep.

Ryan: Well, I like when you say a friendship because when you have a friendship, sometimes it is the two of you and sometimes there's other people and sometimes there's not. And there's no hard— it's like, no, this friendship works like this and that's it.

Tommy: I tell you what, you're pretty radio though, because a friendship doesn't put their hand up when they want to speak in a conversation. You just did that.

Ryan: Why do you want to speak over you guys?

Tommy: Yeah, but he just put his hand up.

Josh: I didn't even know That's the only thing I've learnt this year.

Ryan: I'm on a very chatty show at the moment.

Tommy: That's so radio.

Ryan: I've never done that before this time last year in the 5 years I've been in radio.

Tommy: So he just put his hand up to speak. Fair enough. Ryan, what would you like to say?

Josh: Was that a producer? Do you remember the conversation of the hand thing?

Ryan: Not really. We just sort of had to, 'cause like I said, a lot of chatty people, but I've never before my current show had to do it and never thought of it.

Tommy: You've got a threesome happening.

Ryan: Yep.

Tommy: Which is a different scenario than a 2.

Ryan: It is, yeah.

Tommy: Listen, oi, put your forearm down, Josh.

Ryan: Well, I thought it would be similar 'cause my old show was Tanya and I, which is on paper a 2, but it was actually a 4 'cause we had the news reader was permanently in because we liked her. Her name was Kat. So we just invited her in the studio and then our producer Matt was really funny and he just had a really unique laugh and it was just good to have around to have a bit of laughter.

Tommy: What was his name?

Ryan: White Trash Matt in an awful haircut. And so there was 4 of us. So I thought, oh, it won't be that much different because I've come from a show with 4. Yeah, I'm going to a show with 3. So like, what's the deal?

Tommy: There's a hierarchy, there's a status play, you know. You've got the different roles. You've got the hosts, which are the quote talent, and then you've got the newsreader, which is a different class. You've got, you know, White Trash Matt, which is the bottom of the barrel. Just with that name.

Ryan: He is amazing.

Tommy: But you've set it up to be, and so when I think when there is, I would find it hard if there was 3, imagine Hamish, Andy, and another dude that wasn't a young person.

Josh: Used to be Ryan Shelton back in the day. Really? Yeah, it was Hamish, Andy, and Ryan.

Tommy: How was that?

Ryan: Well, they got rid of, well, not, yeah, I wanna talk about that. Nice way they got rid of Ryan for that reason is 'cause they were like, oh, it's a bit cloudy and there's 3 guys trying to be really funny.

Tommy: It's complicated. I know Ryan's one of their best mates. Yeah.

Ryan: Well, he produces their TV show.

Josh: Yeah.

Ryan: And I think he is as good as he was on radio. He's a better, I don't know him personally, but I hear that he's a gun producer and I guess stick to your strengths, I guess.

Tommy: I think the thing with a podcast for 2019, you have these ideas about what building up something is like, and then there's the reality of it. And then there's the feeling of when it started to go, like a podcast is starting to get momentum. And I was thinking like, imagine if this really blew up and I felt the exact same way. It wouldn't feel as good as you think that it would. Not say it's bad, but it's like you're in it, you're tired, you're doing it every day. It's like you, you know, your job now, Ryan, is the highest of your career it's ever been. And I could imagine it feels like shit at some times because it's 4:00 AM. It's fucking, I'm tired as fuck.

Ryan: Every single day the alarm goes off at 4:00. 4 o'clock and you think, am I, is this what I'm doing? Yeah.

Tommy: So like sometimes success is a delusion in your mind about it's some sort of utopia.

Ryan: Oh, I would have said many times, oh, if I just got that Metro Brekkie gig, then it would be sweet and I'd be set for life. And I'd be like rocking back in my chair going, I've done it. And I'll just sail off into the sunset and then you have a job and it's just the same as the old one.

Tommy: Just, oh, 100%.

Josh: So what do you do then? Like what's the coping mechanism to being—

Tommy: I'll tell you.

Josh: Life being a bit fucked.

Tommy: Please.

Josh: Switch hands.

Tommy: From being in radio, from doing this with you, Josh, and having a discussion with somebody who was talking to me about like, it was almost like an old school discussion or a radio discussion about finding the characters. So I'm this dude who brings this. When was this? This was last week. And it was like talking, you know, this person's an expert here and they're younger. And so you're basically defining a role before you've started the show. This person's an older woman who has really ingrained beliefs about this, and don't you reckon that would be a great combo? And my thing is, unless you're actually friends, it's not going to work. It's not going to last. Because what I know for me is that I could not fucking front up and have conversation, especially in this landscape now where you're not going to get a million bucks for a show anymore. Like, think about how hard you've worked and you're not at that sort of Melbourne Metro, or like, and it's one step away for you. So you're the closest out of my good mates that I know, and it's still— you need to be, I think, to survive, be actually actual friends, and or be willing to work through stuff and actually care for each other. So that's what, like, that's why I think we just keep going.

Josh: We've talked a lot about radio over the last year. I mean, has any of it changed? Like, being— doing the podcast, has your perception of radio changed or is it just doubled down?

Tommy: Oh, I think I've just become more certain on the thinking of it.

Josh: You say that, but you did deliver a ham today.

Tommy: Well, who fucking decided on that? I'm lucky I'm mates with the guy who made me do it because otherwise I would have left the show.

Josh: So I said I'd set you out the challenge to give away a ham and—

Ryan: A Bitoki ham.

Tommy: The difference between, so maybe the difference between our podcast, Ryan, and your radio show is that you may act like you don't know that something's going on and you're like, okay, I at least need to know what the fuck I'm in for.

Josh: What do you mean?

Tommy: As in Ryan doesn't know, but he knows that I'm gonna give away a ham, but he's gonna sort of, he's not gonna lie, but I think he'll be like, oh, you're stitching me up. So it's not saying, oh guys, I didn't know that. You're stitching me up. It's like, oh, this is a stitch-up again.

Josh: So what you're saying is—

Tommy: literally came up with the Botox giveaway, a ham.

Josh: Can we stop? No spend. Stop mentioning brands, guys.

Tommy: No spend, no say on our show.

Josh: No spend, no say.

Ryan: So a ham that rhymes with schmackocky.

Tommy: Yeah, he's like, you're gonna give away a schmackocky.

Josh: It's a pocket ham.

Tommy: And I was like, get fucked. I didn't even know. I'm literally, I'm like, is this one another one of your promises that we're gonna make on this show and not fulfill? 'Cause I've done it plenty of times.

Ryan: That actually is one thing that irks me is that if you say you're gonna do something, you gotta do it because you can't just be throwing out, oh, we're gonna do this and there's only so many times you can not do it before people go, oh, they just say things and whatever. So I'm glad that you fulfilled that for just because if you said you're gonna do it, you should do it. Exactly.

Tommy: I was thinking, what do you think the amount of minutes of video footage on YouTube is people talking about where they've been and saying sorry for why they haven't posted? It was the same with blogs 5 months ago.

Ryan: 5 years ago, this is a really common blog post. Hey guys, sorry I haven't blogged in a while, but trust me, I'll be back. And then they don't do another post for another year.

Josh: And it's like, don't tell me you're gonna be back.

Tommy: Look up blogs that talk about when they've basically apologies for not writing, see how many you can find.

Ryan: And then not written after that again, 'cause they lost interest. I wanna say something about when you said in commercial radio, you normally know what's gonna happen. That didn't happen a few weeks ago when Taylor Swift was in town. So my team thought it'd be funny to tell me that we were doing this listener giveaway, but I had to give up my own tickets because we didn't have enough left.

Tommy: Ah, stitch up.

Ryan: They're like, "Oh, what a stitch up, what a stitch up." And I just went the station live on air because about 4 or 5 times I've personally paid for tickets 'cause the station stuffed up.

Josh: So they triggered you and you went harsh.

Ryan: They go, "Ryan, we've stuffed up." stuff something up and I said on air, this place is the fucking worst. I was like, how many times do I personally have to pay physically and mentally for the incompetence of other people that work in this building? And I went off for ages and then people called in and were like, stuff the station, they're your tickets. And for me, if they had said in the first place, we can't give you any tickets, I'd be like, yeah, it's cool. Like you work on a radio station, it's all about the listener. But my thing was I need to set a precedence that when you give something, you can't ask for it back. That's Indian giving.

Josh: But it was a stitch-up.

Ryan: Well, so I went on this huge rampage and then they come back and said, "Oh, it was actually just a bit of a stitch-up. We thought you would just go, 'Oh, okay,' and then hand them over and you'd be the good guy. But instead you told every single producer personally and named them and told them how shit they were." Carly from Tactics was crying. It was actually really, really murky for a little while. And then they finally were like, "Oh, here's the tickets." And I was like—

Tommy: No, good.

Ryan: I was like, "No, I don't fucking want them." Yeah, generally.

Tommy: I didn't want them.

Ryan: And they gave them. So I think this happened on a Wednesday Thursday. Yeah, the girl who won the tickets was at a school, so I actually went to her school, did a PA announcement like, please come to the office, and then gave them to her. So it was a nice thing. And then at 10 AM on the Friday, they were like, oh, the whole thing was actually a joke, here's your tickets. And I was like, nah, I was like, I can't go now because we just did this whole thing about me not going, so it'd be dumb if I went. And they're like, oh, it's part of the story. I'm like, it's 10 AM on Friday, the show's finished for the week. If this is part of the story, you tell me what part of the show it's going on because it's already finished.

Josh: There's so many examples of it. It's like the equivalent of If you go to a cafe all the time and then they're always running late and it really pisses you off. And then they say, "Oh, hey, just so you know, the avocado, the smashed avocado is gonna take a bit." And then that's just the straw that breaks the camel's back. And you say, "I fucking wait here all the time." And then for them to be like, "Oh, here it is." It's a bit of that deal.

Tommy: It's not the thing in the moment, it's every little thing.

Josh: But I think, I'm sure that Bree stitched me up. It's a good stitch up for couples, for partners to sort of—

Tommy: Well, 'cause you know the hot button, it's like a hot button.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: You just hit it.

Josh: It's like, oh, I'm not finishing work on time today, sorry. I'm just fucking having a huge blow up. And then all of a sudden you become the bad guy. This has actually happened to you. Do you remember when? No. It wasn't even a clear stitch up. It was Amy.

Tommy: Had nothing to do with Taylor Swift?

Josh: No, it was when Amy missed her flight.

Tommy: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.

Ryan: Tom?

Tommy: Well, you miss your flight and you can imagine that that is every, you know, it's not just Amy's problem, it's my problem. Yeah, it's our money, it's our money, it's a financial problem.

Josh: End of pay cycle, you get a call from Amy.

Ryan: Yeah.

Josh: You spent a bunch of cash on a flight.

Tommy: Yes.

Josh: And then what? And she calls you.

Tommy: She led with I've missed my flight and I haven't been able to make it. I missed it. The bus didn't arrive. Not—

Josh: And so what was your reaction?

Tommy: I can't even remember.

Josh: Give me the car, the rental car company's number now.

Tommy: Yeah, because she got a bus an hour from an hour away and it's a door-to-door service. So you call up and you say, my flight's at this time. And they say, great, we'll pick you up here. They'll give you enough time. She gets on that bus. She gets there, she pays $150 for the bus. To the bus, gets to the airport.

Josh: Isn't that crazy?

Tommy: But it's like going from Portsea to Melbourne Airport, so it's a long way away.

Josh: It's because she had a— and did she have a pram?

Tommy: She had Bodhi, was with her. So I already feel like if I missed— so I'm taking on her feelings about missing a flight with the baby that's fucking a little mental kid. And so I'm feeling horrible about her situation and how it will then affect myself and our financial situation and her situation. And so I was pissed. I'm like, nah, the company who made you miss your flight just got you there late because they said what time and okay, we'll get you this time. They're paying for it. I was just adamant about it. And then she said, oh, I've actually been put on the next flight.

Ryan: And you'd already lit up.

Josh: Yeah, literally had his full moment. But then it's still, you can't just instantly go down to like, you can't go from a 10 to a 1.

Tommy: You've got momentum, bro.

Josh: Yeah, all of a sudden you have to go to an 8 going, well, you could have led with it type of deal.

Ryan: What happened in the lead up? 'Cause I feel similar to the Taylor Swift. It's the straw that breaks the camel's back. So what else was going on that day or with the rental car company that this was finally the moment?

Tommy: I don't know, it's just marriage, mate.

Josh: Just the grating of—

Tommy: Oh, it's just kids going away. Like it's hard.

Josh: Getting that call.

Tommy: Oh, everything. I think it's just like, I'm looking forward to just, okay, I've got my time that I'm going to pick her up and I know I'm going to be there. And then just everything just gets thrown and I freak out. It's probably not the best way to react. And especially I wasn't on air, you were, mate.

Ryan: Yeah, I was. I was live to a lot of people. Josh, would you say that Tom is the kind of flexible guy that when something changes in his plans, he's cool with it? 'Cause I'm feeling like That might not be the case.

Josh: I don't know, I think that Tommy's got two extremes. I think that depends, doesn't it? Yeah. I think that Tommy can be the most caring, flexible, easy bloke going around.

Ryan: But if the bus turns up late.

Josh: Yeah, but if he's rattled, if he's a bit rattled for the day. Yeah. But the good thing is working with each other, you can just identify it. And so just like he came with me just being like, you got fucking issues today. Like just like you realise that it's actually—

Ryan: So would you say that out loud or would you just notice, oh, Tom's having a day so I'll just go to my desk.

Josh: No, no, no, no, no. I at least need to provoke because the thing is that it's still destructive if you don't say anything. It's same with me when I'm in a mood, if you end up having to feed on it 'cause it doesn't stop unless you actively say, oh, you're being a bit of a piece of shit right now the way you're talking. You just sort of keep on going. But when you go, ah, settle down, like normally it's, but settle down, which if some people said that to me, I'd fucking lose my mind. You're very good with it. You're like, just sort of chill out a bit. You're just like, yeah.

Tommy: I feel like I try to be optimistic and sometimes it's probably a bit of a detriment.

Josh: With a bad mood, you mean?

Tommy: No, but something happens. So something negative happens and you just like instantly, because it feels good, I think. It's almost a coping mechanism to go, this bad thing's happened. Oh, it'll be sweet if we do this. And finding that solace in some sort of positive thinking. Are you that person?

Ryan: I'm the annoying, it's like the typical stereotypical male thing is when someone comes to you with a problem, sometimes they just wanna express the problem. Whereas I'll be like, oh, we'll just fix this. And be like, don't fix it. I just want you to listen. And so it took me, far too long to learn that that's like a real thing.

Josh: 100%.

Ryan: And so I will go— used to try to fix everything— to a listener. But then sometimes the danger is if you do listening, then the other person goes, oh, this is the kind of guy who's going to listen to my problems, so therefore I can go and tell them all my problems. And suddenly you become the problem guy.

Tommy: Yeah.

Ryan: And you don't want to be that guy. No, like, you don't want to be the person that someone goes, oh, finally Tom's here, I can tell you about all the shit things happen. Because I'm like, I don't want to hear all those shit things.

Tommy: It's the equivalent of, Josh, you not liking fiction books and only ever reading non-fiction. It's the same feeling. I feel the same way as that. And I feel like when people come to me and I can't then solve it, it's like I'm fucking delving into a fiction book.

Josh: Well, I remember when like, when Bree would be having her career or whatever and she would have a problem at work, I used to think that it's like, oh, I'm gonna like, when she'd bring up a problem or vent or something, I'd be like, okay, I was always solutions-focused. I'm like, okay, well, you gotta speak to this person or that person, or if you're not happy, just, you need to quit.

Ryan: But she don't want that, does she?

Josh: Yeah, no, she doesn't want that. She just wants to just like, and also the other thing too is even though she's saying, oh, like I'm not happy about this, this and this, she's only saying it to me as a way of getting it off her chest. She doesn't actually, 'cause then when I'm like, have you said it to the, have you said this thing that you're feeling to the person? And it's like, well, no, I'm actually just in a shit mode. It's got nothing to do.

Tommy: I will preface this with Amy. I'm not, I am a piece of shit a lot of times and there's a lot of negative traits.

Josh: That's a good way to preface everything.

Ryan: That's the title for this episode, Tommy's a Piece of Shit.

Tommy: And if you have a podcast, you can go hard on me. There is one thing, 'cause I find that's especially in my experience with females, them wanting to sort of just talk and not hear the female.

Josh: You're listening to blokes talk, guys. No, no, no, this is good. I like this, this is good.

Tommy: And I've noticed Amy, I've seen her sister do it where they talk about, so they're referring about a situation that's happened. So they're like, oh, I was talking to my boss and he was telling me this and you know, I was thinking blah, blah, blah. And I said this and then she starts, she threads what she was thinking and what was actually said into the same thing. So I'm trying to work out, did you say that or was that what you're thinking?

Josh: Normally they say, Bree does the same thing. She'll say, oh, I was like, 'Go fuck yourself.' I'm like, 'Oh my God, you said that.' She's like, 'No, no, I didn't say that, but I thought it.' So, 'Well, what did you say?' It's like, 'Well, I just nodded and kept working.' I was like, 'Well, there we go.' That's a great idea.

Ryan: I'd love to work on that.

Josh: That's it. It's interesting, isn't it? Yeah.

Ryan: So do you have to have many chats where you go—

Tommy: so you actually say, 'Did you say that?' I've got to the point where I'm not as brutal anymore. I'm just literally like, 'So hang on, do you say that or are you thinking that?' 'No, no, I was thinking that.' 'Okay.' It doesn't even matter if they were thinking it or saying it, because this is all you need to do is do this.

Josh: Oh, that sucks. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's so true.

Ryan: In fact, I reckon record that and just play it out. Just play it out.

Tommy: Soundboard.

Ryan: And I wish someone had told me that 5 years ago because that would have saved a lot of drama in my life if I had just gone, oh, that sucks, man.

Josh: Well, because I almost— no, I reckon that I used to think listening meant having a good response to what the person was saying. Yeah, but I actually worked out sometimes when I would tune out, I'd be like, aha, aha, yep, yep, yep. I'm like focusing on something else and then at the end of the conversation, like, that was so— they'll say, that was so helpful. I was like, ah, I just happened to be here. I'm just like— but it's not even, um, yeah, it's interesting. So like, I don't know how much we actually add when it comes to advice.

Tommy: Well, there's a lot you can work out yourself. And I think that's what they're doing.

Josh: Sometimes it's just venting. Yeah, I mean, how do we vent?

Tommy: Yeah, um, there is a— I mean, there, there is a thought from primitive times in this existence, men hunting. Yeah, and there are things like gym. Like, I know I get a lot out of just being at the gym with a bloke, with a mate of mine, and we just literally just pushing weights.

Ryan: Throwing tin around.

Josh: Yeah, yeah.

Ryan: You know what I'm talking about, Josh?

Tommy: Yeah, it's iron, mate, not tin. You might lift tin. I throw iron around because tin's light as fuck, right?

Ryan: But it looks heavy.

Tommy: No, but it's a form of sort of being around, and maybe that's what sort of that—

Josh: It's like sinking pints.

Tommy: Yeah, but there's an external thing going on. There's that actually putting a drug into your body.

Ryan: That does help.

Tommy: I mean, that's altering you.

Josh: So whereas like we're actually doing pushing heavy stuff and, you know, be interesting to see how our relationship evolves with now that we're going to start going to Fitness First Richmond together.

Tommy: Oh, but there's so much makeup there.

Josh: Who says that? I don't know.

Ryan: So you guys are going to gym together and then work together?

Josh: Yeah.

Ryan: Is that not crossing some sort of boundary?

Josh: Because I would have thought we're not having sex. In terms of when you work, the way Tommy described it, it did sound A little bit that way, but just like we're sharing a moment. It is very intimate.

Ryan: No, just in terms of, I guess, with any strong relationship, we mentioned Hamish and Annie earlier, they almost scheduled holidays away from each other just so when they got back to work, there was that freshness and they weren't stale. And I guess you guys work together a lot in a small office. It could be like cabin fever, that theory, if you spend too much time together, you start to get on each other's nerves.

Josh: It's also Stockholm syndrome.

Ryan: Yeah, exactly.

Josh: We're banking on Stockholm syndrome.

Ryan: Stockholm syndrome. Maybe Tom doesn't realise it, but he just said, said it out loud, going to the gym is his like, you know, escape. And if that's his escape from work and then Josh turns up, oh, fuck me.

Josh: It's a good point. How do you, I mean, this is, I'm entering your space, TJ. Maybe I shouldn't go to the gym. That's what I take out of it.

Tommy: Nah, I think there's more benefits in—

Josh: Nah, I think Ryan's got a good point. I don't think I should go to the gym.

Tommy: Any excuse to get out of the fucking gym.

Josh: So this is the problem.

Ryan: How old are you?

Josh: 28.

Ryan: 28 years in a row, Josh thinking of great reasons not to go to the gym.

Josh: Actually, I was at YMCA for a while.

Ryan: How'd that go for you?

Josh: It was good. It was actually before, it was a different time.

Ryan: It was many rebrands ago.

Josh: Yeah, many rebrands ago at a point in my life where I thought it was acceptable to not only climb Uluru, but we called it Ayers Rock back then. I've got all this footage.

Tommy: It was acceptable.

Josh: Yeah. Well, that's what I'm saying. It was a long time ago.

Ryan: This is back in the blackface is cool era.

Josh: Yeah, exactly. 100%. Sean McCarla fucking getting into it. It was a big thing. But we were talking about the hams. It's a daily talk show. We were talking about hams.

Tommy: Resetting, yeah.

Josh: We were talking about the hams. So my point was, well, you think that I sprung this on you.

Tommy: You did. It was in an episode I hadn't heard of. You never told me. You told James, I'm pretty sure. And James warned you of the idea before you did the show.

Josh: Conspiracy Jimmy. Yeah.

Tommy: He's a good guy to give you pushback on anything really.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: And he's like, nah, too radio. Certainly right, it was.

Josh: And so, but today you saw through the, what would you call it, the promise?

Tommy: The ham giveaway. I went and gave a ham to someone who emailed us and Rob Ward, Quad Lock.

Josh: Friend of the show.

Tommy: Yeah, winner. He was the first person. We actually got quite a few emails. This thing is You push back on radio, but the giveaways they've got— It works. They work.

Ryan: So we're about to play a grab of the giveaway?

Josh: It's the only thing. I was so close.

Ryan: And this is how he reacted.

Josh: I was literally— We'd have like the little bit beforehand. All the radio people laugh at that. Yeah. The thing is we wouldn't have the—

Tommy: Everyone's waiting for the grab.

Ryan: Yeah.

Josh: We wouldn't have the money to have all the audio licensing. So if we did that, we would just need to do a bunch of Yeah, Hamish and Andy did a heap of that. That's true.

Tommy: They did some good.

Ryan: We could throw to it and then you insert it after, and then we'll come off the back as if we've just heard it laughing.

Josh: People can just go to the fact.

Ryan: Well, so what we did was, um, pretend that that happened though, that we've come back off and it was okay.

Josh: Definitely ready.

Ryan: And 2, 1. All right, great delivery.

Tommy: So yeah, I'll tell you just what visually happened.

Josh: I'll paint the picture where it's on our Instagram.

Tommy: Yeah, so we actually—

Josh: So Radio, it's on the socials. Just not quite— Can I just quickly say, uh, maybe I can't say it.

Tommy: Don't say it.

Josh: Radio Network, uh, recently did a new website, uh, rebrand.

Ryan: Do I work for them?

Josh: Yeah, I'm not talking about it. No, just a lot of ads on, um, on the website. I'm thinking of— Really? I was just thinking like it was AdSense So it was like pulled in from Google. So I was like, they're not making a huge amount of money on it. And I was thinking like, I wouldn't think, so I'm like, why are you taking up so much screen real estate with these like dynamic ads? Anyway, send that to who you will.

Tommy: So we need to get the ham, we needed to drive to get the ham, but we also needed to drive to get the glitter cannon.

Josh: That was my idea, confetti cannon.

Tommy: Confetti cannon that we opted for. Not the 15-centimeter glitter cannon, not the confetti cannon. We went for the big girl. Yeah.

Josh: It's gigantic. Don't even describe it.

Tommy: 30 centimeters. It's just a big cylinder. Don't, they are so—

Ryan: There's another one here.

Tommy: Don't, don't, don't. Don't, they are so loud.

Josh: It actually takes a lot to make them.

Tommy: No, don't do that.

Josh: I actually can't do it.

Tommy: Yeah, don't do it. So we went, Got that and then we went and got it. 'Cause we were like, this Josh, the thing is he puts me under the bus and says I have to do it. But then he's got this anxiety around having to do it. He's like, mate, that's your problem. I was like, bro, you fucking—

Ryan: You created this.

Tommy: You created this problem. You inseminated this problem.

Ryan: For you, not me.

Tommy: Yeah, but you still, this is what you've signed up for. So we ended up wanting to sweeten the deal or smooth smooth over the awkward bits.

Josh: Or the ham. It was great when we got the ham. We got it in a really known sort of Jewish area, Balaclava in Melbourne, just because I was worried that there might be ham shortage. Shortage.

Tommy: Christmas time.

Josh: Christmas time, yeah. Full, like lots of ham. Yeah.

Ryan: They'd be mad not to be fully stocked though. Like that's on them to be ready for—

Josh: You think maybe. But I did hear somewhere, I don't know if this is just hype within the radio scene, Yes, but I think it was Two Girls Talking, The Weekend Summer Breakfast.

Tommy: Filling show?

Ryan: Yeah, it's just called Those Two Girls.

Josh: Those Two Girls Talking?

Ryan: So they're usually 5 to 6 every day.

Josh: Two Girls Talking, who am I thinking of?

Ryan: Well, it's called Those Two Girls.

Josh: Those Two Girls. So Those Two Girls, I think they were saying how you had to, they were giving away Botox. Sorry, no spamming.

Tommy: Shittocky.

Josh: Shittocky.

Ryan: Also, hang on, you were canning out commercial radio for being Oh, it's so funny, they'll give away hams, then you're driving to get your ham and then listening to a commercial radio show.

Josh: I may have been listening because I wanted Tommy to win. The idea was that Tommy was going to win the ham.

Tommy: And I never won the ham, so we bought the ham.

Josh: But I was texting Tommy saying, 13 10 60, call up, you need to guess the carol. But you would, by the time I texted, they would have had 20 prize people trying to get it.

Tommy: They actually made it a lot harder now. It's like they're trying to make people listen.

Josh: But they said if you want to get a ham, you need to order it in November.

Tommy: But that's for fancy people. Anyway, we got a 6-pack of doughnuts too for the winner and his staff members because let's be honest, ham's not the best prize.

Ryan: It's not a shareable prize.

Tommy: No, he's taking that home to the fam and we need to reward them. Anyway, so we're walking to his office and Josh is like, get fucked quick. We spotted him walking towards us. He's on his phone and I jumped into like a you know, little nook at the front of a building and Josh sort of scrambled back.

Josh: That's where I just don't shine. Anytime I need to hide quickly, I can't just walk normally. So it was just a very like a jolt. So he would have straight away just looked up and he was like, "Oh guys, guys, oh, what are you doing?" And then I was like, "Oh, okay, it's up." So I press record on this would, if it was radio, it would go, and would go to the bit.

Tommy: But I press record and got, I said to TJ, "TJ, TJ, go out." "Come out." So I've got the ham in one hand, the confetti cannon in the other.

Josh: And this was meant to happen upstairs at their office.

Tommy: Yeah, and I was just, "Go, go, go." So I've got this loaded 30-centimeter cannon and I'm just trying to get it. And Rob, the dude's shielding himself 'cause he sees that I got this thing.

Ryan: So, oh!

Josh: No!

Tommy: And so the footage of him just looking like I've got a gun at him—

Josh: What we'd also planned was that Tommy was gonna go da-da-duh duh duh duh...

Ryan: You have been singing that already?

Josh: Da-da-duh duh duh duh... Yeah yeah. ...and he didn't, so I panicked. So I'm behind camera going: "Da-da-duh duh duh..." As Tommy's trying to get it but can't get it. Then I just go silent, so it was halfway through.

Tommy: It must be hard too, because Josh tried using his wanking hand there to do it, but it wouldn't work. It hasn't been wanky enough. Don't, don't, don't spill. It's legit. Don't, no, don't. I had to change hands to use my right hand at the top, the strong one, and I twisted it. Anyway, I shot this thing. It's so loud, it frightened me.

Josh: It smells like— I'm smelling it.

Tommy: And it shot some confetti, and there was a woman parking her car and had a baby in the back seat.

Josh: Oh, I didn't know that.

Tommy: And there was a, like, a windscreen that sort of protects the baby from things like the sun and also confetti cannons. And it shot a massive ribbon into the baby seats. Like, didn't hit the baby, hit the, hit the wind, the shield thing.

Josh: It was a loud noise though. It's very terrorist, very terrorist attack-like.

Tommy: And so I hadn't thought about the mess it's going to make.

Ryan: And it did clean up though, which was a nice touch.

Tommy: Oh yeah, we got a box. We'll clean it. Yeah, we cleaned it up. We gave it a good crack.

Josh: We put it on the Instagram. Account. What's the best giveaway you've ever done?

Ryan: Um, we just paid someone's mortgage for a whole year, so it's called Live for Free. So it's like, we— it's like the big pay your bills, but it's like we pay your mortgage for a whole year. And we did— I actually hate giveaways, but I like using the giveaway as a thing. So earlier this year, we wanted to give away a trip to London for the royal wedding.

Josh: Yeah.

Ryan: And I was like, no, let's not just give away a trip, let's hire some royal reporters So see how you're still giving away a trip, getting some content. Yeah, but we're recruiting some people, we had all these youngsters and interns like applying, and here's our video entry.

Josh: And 15 Minutes of Fame, many people, many successful presenters, Jules Lund, have—

Ryan: my first job with Austereo was through a competition like that.

Josh: That's right, I think it's great.

Ryan: Yeah, so I was like, let's do that. So essentially they still, inverted commas, won a trip to London, but they were our raw reporters, and that was cool.

Tommy: And The thing about prizes on radio stations is like—

Ryan: No one cares.

Tommy: I mean, the people who win care, but then you don't know, like you never hear about it after. So they're good. That's a good way of doing it. I had a, yeah.

Ryan: So then you got to see the winners every day in London and be like, hey, it's the winners of the Royal Reporter today. We're at the front of Buckingham Palace. So you kind of get, oh, I've listened to this journey and I hear it. But I actually fought at the end of the year for, and lost I think, to have like a segment. It's almost like, where are they now? So it's like, remember in January when we said we'd pay this guy's bills for a year? 'Hey bro, what'd you do with the leftover money?' 'Oh yeah, I went traveling.' 'Oh cool, remember that person we gave around the world trip? They're on the line. How was it?' 'Oh man, we're in—' And like, it's sort of cashing in on— you've spent the money, you're like, go get the punchline.

Josh: Yeah, 100%.

Ryan: Anyway, I lost that bet and we didn't do it.

Tommy: But nice.

Josh: But what were the roving reporters like in London? They were pretty cool.

Ryan: They were fun. Like, we were over there as well. Yeah. So we were still doing a lot of our own stuff.

Josh: Do you think they were prepared for how much work they would need to do?

Ryan: They didn't do much work. Okay. Yeah, they did like a segment a day and their segment might have been we went and did something fun and that just tell a story. But for me it was the hiring process was way more fun than the London itself. Oh, absolutely. 'Cause instead of going for a whole month, oh, in a month you'll hear someone win a trip and that's all that happens for a month. It was like, today's applicants are so-and-so and so-and-so and we've got your journalistic assignment and you're gonna go off and do this and come back tomorrow. And if you do a good job, you'll be in the running. So we had a whole month's worth of applicants and buildups and find up, you know, that kind of stuff. Which for me was worth more than the prize.

Tommy: Hey, Rob, the team, I'm in the hospital where the, The princesses.

Ryan: Well, we did one about would you be good under pressure, and we lit these people on fire and got the fire brigade to light them up and then spray them with hoses. And they'll be like, quick, now do a 30-second report about fill in the blank.

Tommy: You really did that? Is there video? Did you watch Jules Lund's showreel? Because that's the opening line. That's the opening scene in Jules Lund's showreel was him on fire. Ah, ah, ah. Hello, sir, would you like your steak medium? Well done. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's a good saying.

Josh: I just, I feel like it's a very who dares wins sort of thing.

Ryan: Oh, we did the most who dares wins. We got these people driving blindfolded, which just screams who dares wins all over.

Tommy: Oh, it was super easy in a Tesla.

Ryan: Yeah. Well, and they, and we did a wedding. We gave away actually two weddings. One was just the cash and another was we built it. Like people just called in and were like, yeah, I'm a florist, I'll do the flowers. And someone else called it. So we actually accumulated a whole wedding On the show.

Tommy: And for free? Were people just— would you guys actually fund the florist?

Ryan: What happened was that these people won. There was two finalists and one of the couples won this wedding. Yeah. And the other couple, the grandfather was about to pass away. And the whole idea was they wanted to get this wedding done quick so grandpa could make it. And so Perth just kind of like felt sorry for these guys who didn't win. And so it was sort of that, oh, we heard their story. And so yeah, everyone, the venue said you can use our venue for free. How did they go? The florist said we'll do the flowers for free. The driver said we'll do it. And so, and that almost, I don't know the actual value, but I think— Oh, it's Derek.

Josh: That's good, Derek.

Ryan: I think the runners-up did a better job. I got more than the winners in the end.

Josh: Mate, this is always the case. Guy Sebastian and Shannon Noll. Who won that? As I said that, I was like, hang on.

Ryan: Who won? Guy Sebastian won. 'Cause the song was "Angels Brought Me Here." Then Shannon Noll a few years later, was like the guy and then guys like come back around.

Josh: That's so true. Yeah, actually I heard someone mentioning, um, uh, who came third? She had— Emre Cano? No, no, no. Bellini? No, uh, Constantina. Yeah, Constantina. I was in the lift at an airport with her, but no, someone was talking about, um—

Ryan: I've never been in the airport with a lift. Really?

Josh: Yeah, no, I, I was on one. Yeah, there is one airport, Sydney Airport. I know, I was in Melbourne, uh, there was— I just remember like luggage or whatever if you wanted to go from Arrivals to Departures or something. No, uh, and how's Constantine doing? No, she, um, that was years ago that I saw her. But do you remember she was the nodules one? She, um, oh yeah, she had nodules on her thing. Her throat was fucked. Yeah, that's a good story.

Tommy: Not a technical term. Yeah, yeah, great story. It's a daily talk show, everyone.

Josh: So what's on for Christmas? What are you doing?

Ryan: I'm in Melbourne for a few days.

Josh: Do you feel the pressure of having to catch up with everyone?

Ryan: A little bit, yeah, because I, it's sort of like, well, if I don't see everyone now, then I don't know when I'll see them next. Obviously, the Daily Talk Show is my first stop. Very, yeah.

Josh: And then what is it, Studio 10? Where do you always go?

Ryan: This is the first time I've come here not having just been on TV. Yeah, that's right.

Josh: That's a real shame. So no, but do you, are you a social guy? Are you like, 2019, I'm caring less about social awkwardness and just being like, yeah, all good. Like, but does that mean that I go to more things without care and just enjoy it and have the moment? Or does it just mean me saying no?

Ryan: I've got the opposite of FOMO, which is fear of going to something and it's shit. Yeah. I'd rather stay home. Yeah. The YOMO. I like my, I don't know if a lot of creative people, I get a lot of my creativity by my alone time and stuff. So if I don't get alone time, I get a bit antsy.

Josh: I feel the same way. Do you think it's a bit of a cop-out though? Tej, do you feel like it's a cop-out? You're the extrovert of the team.

Tommy: Do I like going to? No, I've become more like that. Especially with the family, I like to sort of just chill.

Josh: But do you think, I know Bree sort of eye rolls, like if we've ever got anything on, there's always like a little bit of selling that she has to do.

Tommy: Well, I think it's the equivalent of a negative mindset where you go dark straight away.

Josh: But is it negative?

Tommy: You know, it's like, it's automatically gone there. Whereas it's not open to it and then going, okay, well, why couldn't that work? It's hard to switch out of that though. My old man's like that. He's fucking, he wants to get out of there. Time to go.

Josh: Would your dad be the type that would go to bed while the guests are still there? You know, there's those guys.

Tommy: Yeah, I've done that a couple of times.

Josh: Hey, Ro, night everyone.

Ryan: I'm fine once I get, Like so many times I'm like, oh, I better turn up. I'll have one beer and drive home. And then a week later I'll be like, fuck, my car's still at that place.

Tommy: I haven't had that though. I feel the problem with holding things at your house, which we don't do a lot 'cause we've got a small place, but we have done a couple of times. And there has been moments where I'm like, guys, I'm just gonna head off to bed. It's like my house is my space, my only place in this world. That is mine and it's like where I rest and I can fucking be myself. And when people are over, it's like we're not the Queen. No one can leave the table until the Queen's finished eating or no one can finish eating until the Queen's finished eating.

Josh: And so unless you're sharing hot chips. Is that true? No. There is some weird rules with the Queen.

Tommy: Ryan probably knows. It's a radio thing, isn't it?

Ryan: Apparently she— Here we go.

Josh: We've got our correspondent.

Ryan: We've got our royal correspondent. When she finishes is they clear the whole table. And charades is the thing that you have to keep playing charades until she's decided she's done. So you're sitting around playing charades. Like you don't say, oh, anyway, better get going. Everyone plays charades until the Queen is done charading. And she likes charades. That's her thing. Christmas time, everyone in the family gets together and plays charades.

Tommy: I was thinking, we were driving down the street just before, actually to deliver the ham to Rob.

Josh: And we saw this guy.

Tommy: We saw this guy and Josh just goes, "There's Santa." And then we got closer and it was a dude who was slightly podgy, gray. He was fat. He was fat, long grey hair. He had, what do you call them, suspenders?

Josh: Red suspenders.

Ryan: Red suspenders and a white beard. And a gross shirt. So he wasn't dressed as Santa. This was just a guy in his everyday kind of getup.

Tommy: In December. Josh said, "Fuck, he'd hate this time of year, wouldn't he?" Well, or he's just asking for it.

Josh: Like you don't rock around if you are—

Ryan: Oh, look what he was wearing, am I right?

Josh: Yeah, if you're wearing red suspenders, there's a bit of, oh, I like this. You deserve it, dude. Yeah. You deserve it. It would be hard.

Tommy: Old gray-haired, long fat dudes at this time of year. We even saw one, it was a month ago. He could have been, it was almost homeless vibes, but a bit too well together.

Josh: When he was laying down on the square.

Tommy: He was laying down and you were like, that's definitely Secret Santa. And it's a radio competition. It's a radio competition.

Josh: I thought you gotta push his belly button and fucking Kyle Sanderlands will jump out and you've won a million bucks or something.

Ryan: I love the idea of something that you have to go do something to a stranger to win because I love the storeys of people doing it to people who weren't. So imagine it like all you have to do is go up to the fat guy and say, "Are you the Kiss FM fat guy?" And you win the prize. And you can imagine all the storeys going, "Oh, are you the Kiss FM fat guy?" And just a regular fat guy's like, "No, but what are you saying?" That would be great.

Tommy: Is there too many rules, like in radio now, is there a lot of rules around, like are you conscious of— Depends what company.

Josh: We were talking to Dan DeBooth about this a little bit. Were we? About the whole like, you can't do that anymore, can't do, is that what you're talking about?

Tommy: Oh, the prank calls.

Ryan: It depends which company. So the company I'm with now is terrified of doing anything. So we're often like, oh no, legal said this. And some of the smallest things, it's like, Oh, legal preferred us to do it this way. And I'm like, why did we even talk to legal about doing it?

Josh: What is a good example that you can share of an idea that then has been shifted based on legal?

Ryan: Oh, every idea is shifted at some stage. Yeah, very rarely is it the best version. It's like everything you wanna do is like, oh, here's the watered-down thing that we're allowed to do.

Josh: What's an example?

Ryan: Like everything we do.

Josh: We used to, I remember we nearly dropped Jules Lund off like a big crane into water. To legit go into the water? Yeah, but he was gonna wear like a black, it was gonna be blacked out. Not blackface, blacked out. Blacked out. As in? Yeah, like a mask. Yes. He was gonna take it off, he was gonna be 20 metres up. Yeah. And so we even did like the stunt diver and stuff was like going in to cheque the conditions under the water of what it was like, but they ended up, they couldn't get it insured.

Ryan: Actually just the Royal Reporter that I was talking about before, we weren't allowed to use the word hire or job because of all these reasons. Can't work overseas. Well, no, it's just like if you're offering a job, you have to give them a full-time job. And I was like, no, just give them a job for 2 weeks. Like, it's a 2-week job.

Josh: So what did you call it?

Ryan: I don't know, but by the time you're over it, you have to explain why you're explaining it a certain way. Then you're like, fuck, like, I've lost interest. Like, it's— and when you're doing a thing about hiring someone and you can't use the word job or hiring, it's the royal sole trader coming in.

Josh: How's your ABN number?

Ryan: Because my whole thing was everyone gives away something to win, let's hire someone, that's the point of difference. Like, great point of difference, we're going to do it. However, can't use the word hire and can't promise a job, we have to say you're winning a prize. I'm like, well, the whole point was to do something different to winning a prize. Like, yeah, cool, that's what we're going to do. However, we just need a word like this, win a prize. And we're like, okay, right, so it doesn't really make sense, but if the legal team says that's what's best, that's what we do. Uh, when are you back on Yeah, radio gets a pretty good break, so we finished 2 weeks ago and we're back in late March. No, I think it's mid-January. Late March? That's a joke. It's probably mid-January. I think we had 6 weeks off.

Josh: Are you, um, Life of Ryan? What's, what's the latest podcast stuff that you're doing?

Ryan: Uh, the— it's gonna change the business in the new year. Yeah, so it's gonna be a new one next year. Okay, what is it?

Josh: Give us a—

Ryan: I don't know exactly what it's called yet, but essentially it's just going to be more regular and more like radio because it's going to be where all my pitched ideas for the show that didn't get up go onto the podcast.

Josh: A little bit more sort of raunchy.

Ryan: Oh, not even raunchy, but just actually existing really. No legal requirement. No legal. And the podcast I just did was really, it was good, Life Rhyme, but it was very hands-on and I had like co-hosts and, you know, guys helping with the audio. And I found that I was spending more time managing the working parts than the actually doing the podcast. Which you guys probably had jobs like that where you're like, oh, I want to just do the job, not all the organizing. So it'll probably just be a bit more of me with some sprinkles of other people rather than trying to find everyone who can get to the studio at one time. So Life of Ryan will probably just finish and then like the season, and then you're gonna use the same, uh, RSS feed and stuff. I think so, because I went for a while of doing a new podcast every year, but then you start at zero every year. I've got zero subscribers, zero listens. So I think it's easier to just roll on, and as long as it's not too different, because you can't go, oh, I'm, I'm into travel, so everyone subscribed to my travel thing, and then you're like, oh no, this year I'm, I'm teaching you parenting tricks, because you can't assume it's the same audience. Yeah, so it has to be similar enough to use the same feed, but it will be just more of the how it's made will be a lot different. But yeah, but I've only really finished working today, so radio finished a few weeks ago.

Josh: So you've got You, you're just wrapping, wrapping up that.

Ryan: I had a few video jobs that I just finished up. Today was the last because she did a bunch of horse stuff. Yes, I was the reporter at large for the Spring Racing Carnival. Yeah, which is—

Tommy: couldn't say he had a job. I wasn't hired.

Ryan: Yeah, I actually was hired and did have a job. What were the deliverables?

Josh: What did you have to deliver? Uh, videos.

Ryan: Yeah, and I just said, I don't really want to make ads, here's what I've done before, and I can make stuff like this but filmed at the track. And they just went, yeah, do whatever you want.

Josh: Were there like 5 30-second clips for social or?

Ryan: It was, yeah, all the videos for Facebook and then smaller snippets for Insta. 'Cause obviously Insta's only 60 seconds. And yeah, it was 5 or 6 videos over 5 or 6. So it was one a week for the Spring Carnival. But then I filmed, they were like, oh, just come every Saturday. And I was like, no, I'll come for the first 2 Saturdays and film. Oh, great.

Josh: Free day.

Ryan: Yeah. And then I'm done. Oh, awesome. And then just over, just released them week by week sort of thing.

Josh: I'm missing your content not being on social media.

Tommy: Oh yeah, he's off.

Josh: 'Cause I'm off. What are you doing? I've retired from social media. I've just decided.

Tommy: He doesn't quite know.

Josh: No, I've, no, he knows. I just, I'm sort of feel like I can't talk about it until I've done it for a year. But the idea is I feel like I need to focus on deep work and producing big bits of content.

Ryan: I agree. However, here's the thing. Sometimes there's new trends and changes and if you don't know about them and then you're off selling stuff, they're like, the last thing you wanna happen to you is that a client goes, Josh, we've got 50 grand. We want you to make this thing similar to that new thing that everyone's doing. And you're like, I don't know what you're talking about.

Josh: That's when I turn to you and probably tell them to get fucked anyway.

Tommy: Well, I mean, if you wanna, if you're working with someone that's just saying, do what everyone else is doing.

Ryan: I'm like, there's a new style of film.

Josh: There's a new style. Hopefully I can keep up. Up to date just with my, just being online. But have you got much of a website presence? Can I just go to ryanjohn.com or something?

Ryan: And there's not much on there.

Josh: Can you fix that?

Tommy: It's like a feed, it's a Tumblr, is it?

Josh: So I can just go to—

Ryan: It's an old Tumblr but there's no porn on it so it still exists. But what I found was instead of being—

Josh: Jesus, that was full of porn a while ago.

Ryan: When you're on Facebook, I was like, I want to keep people entertained on Facebook. I don't want to use Facebook as a way to get someone to something else. It's not a pushing mechanism. Yeah, and so I was like, if it's Facebook, I just wanna entertain people on Facebook. If it's Instagram, I wanna put photos on Instagram. I don't wanna use all the platforms to just send people to other platforms. Yeah, sure. So that's why the website hasn't gone— I left it behind.

Tommy: I think Ryan's a great example that sort of challenges your thinking around this social media stuff. I feel like you're spread across majority of them.

Ryan: Well, I read a book the other day. It was Roxy DeJanko's new book.

Tommy: Book, by the way. Oh yeah, I saw she was on your show.

Ryan: She was on our show, she's great.

Tommy: What's it called? Sweaty Betty PR, is that her?

Ryan: That's her, she's got many businesses, she's doing pretty well for herself. But her whole thing was if you try to be on every platform, you'll kill yourself and you'll start watering down your stuff. Find the one or two that you're really good at and just make them great. Because if you try to be on everything, if you don't have a Gary Vee team of 26 people helping you cut stuff, you kind of got to focus on a couple. And for me, that's going to be which a couple of my couple, you know.

Josh: What do you think it's gonna be?

Tommy: Well, I'm looking right now, 220,000 likes on your Facebook page.

Ryan: So Facebook kind of has to be one just 'cause of the number.

Tommy: But does it? But does it? That's what I think.

Josh: It seems irresponsible. 'Cause the thing is I've got nothing to lose. I've got 1,700 followers on Instagram. It's not gonna hurt me. I've nearly, by the, like we'll, we're nearly at 5,000 15,000 downloads this month for our podcast. If you think about how many people we're reaching, it's like my Instagram audience is like 10% of what we reach on the podcast already and people actually consuming it. So yeah, do you think that you need to go for that big audience 'cause you've got it there?

Ryan: I don't feel like I need to, but it's more like I spent so much time building it up, it almost feels like a waste to, to let it go and they are genuinely like interested in my storey and stuff like that. But I gotta be careful not to like spam it. Yeah. But— Does spamming at work?

Josh: Have you tried posting a shit ton? Does it have diminishing returns?

Ryan: Sometimes, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, and so Facebook, I think this last year you just post anything and off it goes. But now it's like when the algorithm changed and stuff, you really gotta make sure of it. Instagram, I'd say, is more consistent. Nothing will take off and go viral, but then nothing will sort of die. It'll just be sort of consistent. Yeah. And then, so YouTube, I've— this is probably the one I'm going to just not worry about because I feel like it's its own beast and you either got to commit and you be a YouTuber for 5 years and really be in the YouTube community, or I think you feel like you can't just chuck something up there every couple of weeks and not— could you though?

Josh: Like, is it— I wonder if the difference between— this isn't necessarily my thinking,, but is the rationale that's like, oh well, if it's easy just to chuck something up every 2 weeks, maybe you're better off just chucking it up than not posting at all?

Ryan: Um, yeah, but I don't know, I feel like you got to make it for the platform. So if I make a quick fun video for Instagram that's 20, 30 seconds, that won't translate on YouTube. It just feels a bit weird. And vice versa, you put a 15-minute sort of storey on Facebook, I can't imagine too many people watching the whole thing. So that's where it's— for me, it's like Yeah, Ryan, stop trying to do everything for everyone and just pick your little— So Facebook, that's one, and probably Instagram, I reckon. Twitter is just long gone for me. I rarely use that. And then podcast. But even the podcast, I see that as a almost a practise and a learning for the radio job without— like, no one could listen to that. And I'm like, as long as it's just exercising my radio skills and ideas, you know, the creativity whole— who's the James Altucher? Like, yeah, create lots of ideas and get better at it.

Tommy: So for me, that'll be Well, you're doing that. You're doing a podcast every single day, every weekday essentially.

Josh: Which is the radio show.

Ryan: Yeah, but yeah, I think there's a bit more room to do some stuff. Do you think the radio stations—

Josh: do you get a sense that there's any pushback on stop spending your time on doing a podcast, you've got a fucking radio show? Never.

Ryan: Well, but that's because I'm in a position where they've never said you're not putting in enough time and effort to the radio. I'm sure— and I've been there for the opposite where people are like, you've got a radio show and a job and a salary, start putting in. Like, I've been there. Not for me, but like I've seen other people who I've worked with have to have that chat.

Josh: But you've got all—

Ryan: there's no one at my work that works harder than or spends more time doing work than I do. So I'd be— they'd be very rich to have that chat with me, I would have thought. Yeah, yeah. It's more the other way around. I'm like, I'm making this stuff, if you want it you can have it, but you probably won't, so I'll just put it over here. Um, yeah, so they can have any of the content they want.

Josh: How do you, how do you sort of draw a line between this is good for radio, this is good for the podcast? Um, we sort of pitch it up in the radio producers meeting, and then if they don't take it, you'll sort of write it?

Ryan: I think so. Well, yeah, but I think I've, I just got to start making it because I know it's like the more ideas you have, if you don't use them, you just stop having the ideas because you're like, what's the point? Yeah. Hence why I'm going to sort of use the podcast as that. Like, I'm gonna make it either way. If you guys want it, you can have it. If not, no problem either.

Tommy: What stops you from putting out something? Like, for instance, I think for me, I've grappled with the thought that I don't have a niche or I'm not specific about this. I don't know what I'm talking to. And so that can create a bit of a confusion. So sometimes it's literally just going, you're thinking stupid. You're thinking is stupid 'cause you've had some success before, so just put it out. What is it for you?

Ryan: Well, actually a really great example of just what we're talking about is my friend Dave who ran 300 kilometres in 5 days. Beast. Yep, you came over to his house, Tommy. We filmed this really nice little 3-minute video. Video does all right online. They were sitting on about $1,500 for 2 months money raised, and in 24 hours they raised another $20 grand. So that video was like a really good investment. I did a podcast episode about it. And so the combination of those two things made about $20 grand for charity. I pitched to the radio show and they just didn't get around to it. And so at first I was real pissed 'cause I was like, I can't believe the show didn't run this thing. And then Bridget, my partner was like, you raised more money than you hoped. The video went wild online. Channel 7 ran it nationally. You haven't lost, like they have.

Tommy: Fuck, and all you wanted her to do is listen. Yeah, exactly.

Ryan: And so she's like— She told you what to do. Yeah, so she's like, Well, she's like, don't feel annoyed that they didn't run it. They should be annoyed that they didn't get it. And so I guess the filter for that one was like, it was just a great storey and I wanted to tell it. And I thought it was the best way to raise the most money possible.

Tommy: I was just gonna say ideas, like people knocking back, taking some, it doesn't make sense.

Ryan: All they had to do was say yes and they could have claimed they raised 30 grand for a cause. And give it 3 minutes.

Tommy: Well, I mean, this is your pushback, Josh, on people who are selling ideas. Yeah, I don't know.

Josh: I think that the, uh, yeah, I wrote a blog post at joshjansen.com, um, just, just about ideas are cheap. Ideas, ideas are nothing without execution. So we shouldn't put any emphasis on ideas. We should put on doing it. Yeah, I think that the, the idea is I can't remember what did I actually say, what was my thought around it?

Ryan: I 100% agree. I could sit here at the end of the year and be like, oh, I was going to do this charity thing but the station said no so I didn't, and be bitter. Or I could call Tommy and go, mate, station's not interested so we're going to do it ourselves, and we had a great win. I'll read Josh's.

Josh: Do you want me to read it out in my voice like an audiobook? Yeah, true. Here we go. I'll do this like a Seth Godin-esque, uh, just read it as Josh.

Ryan: All Ideas Are Bad.

Josh: This is a Josh Janson-esque. All Ideas Are Bad. This is by Josh Janson from December 3rd, 2018. The person who says there's no such thing as a bad idea has obviously never put a knife in a plugged-in toaster to flick out a jammed Pop-Tart. There are bad ideas. In fact, I reckon every idea starts that way. An idea is like a cheque yet to be signed. The value with all of its zeros, all of its potential riches, but a signature short. The signature is the commitment, a willingness to take action, a crack at making the idea happen. Be skeptical, sceptical of ideas, people. Ideas are hunches and assumptions. Ideas don't make you rich and they don't make you clever. Ideas are blank worthless cheques until they're signed.

Ryan: I like it. I like it. And this is exactly why my 2019 podcast will exist because I don't wanna be the guy who finishes up at the end of the year and be like, oh, but look at these great ideas in my notebook. I wanna be like, here's the episodes, go listen. And if someone doesn't want them, then someone else will. And that's how a lot of even client work is a lot of stuff that I've pitched to the station. They've gone, oh, we can't be bothered. So I pitched to someone else and they pay for it. And I'm like, oh, this is great.

Josh: Well, ideas, I feel like it's the equivalent of the same people who say, I'm a writer, I'm a filmmaker, I'm a this, I'm a that. The person who's obsessed with the term, the noun or whatever the fuck you wanna call it. Is it a noun? Is it a— Yeah, it's a noun. You're the blogger, mate. Mr. 97's nodding. You should be focusing on the actual, Austin Kleon talks about it. You should actually be focusing on doing the work. So rather than being obsessed with, I'm a writer, that's what I do, or I'm an entrepreneur, it's actually like, okay, if you're a writer, how much are you actually writing? And I can catch myself for being like, I'm a reader, I read. And it's like, I need to make sure— and I buy books, I've got a lot. Have you seen how many Amazon?

Tommy: You've been buying a lot. You need to slow the fuck down.

Ryan: I'm just trying to slow with the buying, increase with the reading.

Tommy: There should be a minimalist approach with books. I will only buy another one if you've read it.

Josh: Well, that's definitely how I feel about it. I think that I— my, my thought about—

Tommy: he's just put his hand up again. Well, he's actually— you've got 5 minutes in the corner.

Josh: No, what I was just gonna— what I was just going to say was I, um, uh, there's so many books. Like, I wanted to say— I wanted to basically be able to be like, this is my year of thinking this is what I want to be focusing on. The buying of the book is the focus on this thing is important, I want to learn about this thing. And then now it's like the— we're talking about the lead versus lag goals and shit like that. And I want to be at a point where it's like, okay, I need to be reading 20 pages a day rather than saying I want to fucking read 50 books a year. And so by focusing On that many pages a day, it doesn't matter what book it is, you're reading a lot more.

Ryan: On the ideas thing, yeah, there's a— when you're like, ideas aren't— like, being an ideas person is worthless unless you do them. Does that then put more emphasis on the people who are around you? For instance, if you're a two-man business, yeah, one of you is the ideas man and the other one is a great executor, does that therefore be a good combination?

Tommy: Yeah, I think it— I think We're definitely interchangeable, not for you specifically.

Josh: Yeah, well, I think the thing is it's that whole like, one plus one should equal three, not two.

Ryan: Which is more than two. Yeah, exactly.

Josh: Also, and I think that within a partnership, that's why you're doing it. So partnership is, you're not necessarily whole on your, like you might be able to do a bunch of things on your own, but together you are more powerful.

Ryan: Yeah, 'cause I think when you, ideas people. There's a lot of great creative ideas people who are really terribly organised and sloppy on getting stuff done. But then there's a lot of people who want to be in the same business, and Radio's one of them, is really organised and really driven, but they just don't have that unique thinking brain. Whereas if you team them up with— find those right two people and put them together, yeah, then that could be a real winning combo. And I think most of the good combos, when you sort of think about that, those you know, what do you— not values, but skills they have off air, then maybe some ideas are good and your blog is wrong.

Tommy: Well, all ideas are bad. I, I don't see that as you saying that for anyone who tries to pride themselves on ideas.

Ryan: I think you've taken it, uh, it's great headlines.

Tommy: You're going another layer. Ryan's new podcast is essentially what have been deemed bad ideas because they didn't get up on the radio show that you've got. But it doesn't mean that you then can't take those and be a DJ.

Josh: But Ryan's podcast isn't good yet until he's done it.

Tommy: Exactly, but the whole premise of the podcast is doing bad ideas essentially. Because you're doing ideas that didn't make it. Well, I think, why didn't they make it then? I don't know. Ideas are subjective, right?

Ryan: I don't think it's a quality, it's just getting around to actually doing it.

Josh: Yeah, I think that I stand by the that thing around ideas because I think that it is a, it's a means to, an idea is a means to a thing.

Ryan: Yeah, and without the thing it's worthless.

Josh: Without the thing it's fucking worthless. So you could say, it's hard to sort of explain I guess, but I think like if you're planning a trip or whatever, I'm gonna contradict myself maybe. It's a bit of a paradox, right? 'Cause in some regards, the reason you plan a trip is to go on the trip and to do the trip. And so until you actually do the trip, it hasn't come to fruition. In saying that, there's also a lot of joy in planning the trip. So there is a bunch of fun in the ideation. However, if you love travelling and you only are ever in the planning stage, do you love travelling or do you just love the idea of traveling?

Ryan: Should you be working at Flight Center?

Josh: Exactly, and so I think that that's probably the identifying bit is it's like, do you, yeah, do you like making the idea or whatever or do you, 'cause there are some jobs where the outcome, the thing that you need to do is the idea. If you are a screenwriter, essentially the idea is, I mean, you could look at it a bunch of ways. The screenplay is the, that could be the idea. The finished piece. Yeah. That could be, that's also the, that is also in some regards a finished piece, but also the film's a finished piece.

Ryan: Yeah, true. Yeah. Well, I was thinking when you were saying that about being a monologue writer for like The Tonight Show. Yeah. 'cause we could sit around here and write a joke and you go, what a waste of time. But if that joke is then read out by Jimmy Fallon and you got paid 2 grand for one joke, even though you did exactly the same thing, it's a very different outcome.

Tommy: Is that what people get paid?

Ryan: There's some people, they're called faxes because back in the day you'd fax them in, but they've got a writing team, but then there's got a bunch of faxes and they'll just send out, hey, this week we're talking about Trump, Halloween and whatever. And you just write zingers and fax them in. And if they use it, get paid per joke. There's a couple Aussie dudes.

Josh: Yeah, my mate Simon Taylor. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So for Leno. Yeah, we'll, um, he wrote for Leno. Yeah, so we'll have him on the podcast.

Ryan: He's great. Next few months. I've met him when we were both working community radio like 6 or 7 years ago. Yeah, he was like a magician at that stage, just doing tricks.

Josh: Yeah, he still does magician stuff. Yeah, he— and I reckon he's great.

Ryan: I've loved watching his stuff.

Josh: Yeah, we just missed him from when we were in LA. Oh, he was there the week after. He's like, I'm, I'm here.

Tommy: He did a disappear Disappearing trick and fuck. Motherfucker. What's an idea that was deemed bad that you've had by other people or even one that you've done that other people—

Ryan: On the street videos were not okayed by multiple radio stations. And then I do a few anyway. I'm like, well, I'll just do it on my own page. And then suddenly— Merry Christmas.

Tommy: Sorry, just got some people from— Conspiracy Jimmy's business walking past?

Josh: Who's locking the door? He would have a fair bit of security. The boss. What's doing there?

Ryan: Yeah, so in Canberra they're like, you can't go out in the streets and interview drunk people late at night. By law? No, the station was like, it's just, oh, they've been drinking, it's not a good idea. And the storey was about, they were bringing in lockout laws. And I was like, there's no point interviewing grannies at 10 AM in the morning about the people it affects, the people who are out at 2 in the morning. So there's the people whose opinions I want. Yeah, so they were like, you can't interview people when they're drunk. Then I did it, it took off online, and I was like, I'm gonna go again. And they're like, oh, but if you do it again, it has to be on the station page and blah blah. And I was like, you said no to it last time, like 2 weeks ago. Yeah. And the same's happened at Hit. They've said no to things and other people have taken it. Um, the thing with Dave, like I said, the station just didn't get around to it, and it raised $25 grand for a charity and they just couldn't be bothered. Um, like most stuff on my Facebook page is stuff that people haven't— and my Facebook page does a lot better than the station stuff does.

Tommy: There's some, I think there's some real reward in not taking people's, I guess, thoughts on your ideas negatively. But sometimes it's something really bad.

Ryan: Sometimes it's a bad idea and other times it's like, oh, we just, we don't wanna send the video out to help or we don't have time to edit it or—

Josh: Some people just don't get it as well. Like the thing is that if you are a professional who knows their shit, Sometimes, like I wrote a blog post about this, like you can be the exception. Like I think that what we do is—

Tommy: What he's trying to say is he wants to read it out.

Josh: Yeah, no, I'm not gonna read it out. But this night is having a really laughy night.

Ryan: All ideas are bad.

Josh: All that by Josh Jansen, read by me, Josh Jansen. This is Audible. Random House Audio presents How to Win Friends and Influence People by— Okay, I've done it. I couldn't say Dale Carnegie, uh, being the exception. Yeah, I think that there, if you are, um, if you are doing something different, if you go and ask producers or people like different people within any sort of context, hey, should I do this thing? What are they going to do? They're just going to look back and see if it's worked previously. Yeah, they're going to see, is there any risks with this, it's sort of, you can't really go anywhere with it.

Ryan: We pitched an idea weekly and got told no weekly, and then someone else did it and it took off. And then the station was like, "Oh, you can do it now." And we're like, "Well, it's been done. We don't wanna do it anymore." And we did do it, we copied and it didn't work.

Josh: And I think that that's the benefit of being an individual is that just like, I can take this risk and with the risk comes a reward. So being like, I actually think this is gonna work. I'm going to do it.

Ryan: Can I get deep with you here? Yeah. This one guy who was fucked on acid one night, I was an accountant and I was thinking of quitting my accountant job to move to Thailand to do radio full-time.

Tommy: So you weren't the guy on acid?

Ryan: I wasn't the guy on acid.

Josh: Okay. Where did I hear your whole, that was super interesting.

Ryan: And I said like, this is the riskiest thing ever. Like I've got this high-paying finance job. I'm kind of set for life. All I need to do is just keep this job and I'm set. And he said, sometimes not taking a risk is the biggest risk of all. And I was like, fuck, you're right.

Josh: And when you're saying that, The fire fucking, what do you call it?

Ryan: How many radio stations are gonna play it safe for the next 10 years and not be existing in 20 because they didn't take a risk? What is the big risk is them playing it safe and not existing in a decade or two.

Josh: Well, I guess the other thing too is how little digital was on the radar. Are you calling? Did you hear that?

Ryan: Yeah, I just touched my phone when I was getting fired up about the risk thing and then I think I called someone.

Josh: No, but I did hear you. No, it was his phone. Oh, it was your phone. Who were you calling? Was it like, hey Siri, call the head of Nova Imaging?

Ryan: Okay, that's it.

Josh: But I think there's definitely, if I think about radio in 2012 and how digital was seen then, and I'm just like, just seeing that experience, I'm just like, what is it called when the guy always lies and you don't trust him anymore? Pinocchio? No, it wasn't Pinocchio.

Tommy: The guy who always lies. Not Robin Hood.

Ryan: Oh, the guy with the sheep? Little Red Riding Hood.

Tommy: Oh, The Boy Who Cried Wolf. Yes, it's like my son, the boy who cried poo. Yeah. He doesn't need to poo.

Josh: The boy who cried wolf. It's a bit like Boy Who Cried Wolf in some regards where I'm like, you guys didn't prioritise it now. Like you're thinking this way now, why should we trust you now to make all of these decisions around innovation? I think that so many companies are just catching up. They're not doing the innovative thing. They're actually, They were in a corner. The fact that they're doing it, only doing it now, the fact that podcasting is like, ah, we're excited about podcasting now, like I don't celebrate that. I don't see that as a celebration because I just see that like, I see podcasting in 2004 and then I see what certain networks are talking about with podcasting now and talking as if they're the figureheads of it or that they're fucking some heroes for getting onto this thing. It's like, guys, you have entered the arena. How many years is that? 14 years after this thing? And there's been, you've been putting your radio shows on, say for 10 years or whatever it is. And now it's become that, like, I don't think we should be celebrating that. I think that radio networks were so slow off the ground and I hope that independent creators can see the benefits of podcasting.

Ryan: Radio had a very unfair advantage in podcasting that they, as you said, did not take. Yeah. There's, apart from Hamish and Annie who are podcast only now, there's no radio shows in the top 100 podcasts, very rarely. Yeah. And like you said, a huge head start. All they needed to do was chuck it on and market it.

Josh: And so that's why I just find, like, I struggle with that, which is like not eye-rolling every time because it's like I also think, oh, this kid reckons podcasting will be big. Oh, here we go. Yeah, it's just like the competitive advantage is just like, uh, reduce, reduce, reduce, reduce to a point where it's like I don't see what radio stations, what advantage they have. They talk about content and all that sort of thing, but it's like the talent pipeline now, you don't have to like, you can pick yourself and be doing that and be making the thing that you wanna do rather than waiting to be picked by one of these networks.

Ryan: Yeah, well, that's what you girls, sorry, you guys heard of. All right, mate. The girls from Shameless, the podcast. So they were pitching to Mamma Mia and they were pitching to other people and they just picked themselves and said, oh, well actually we don't need to wait for you to say yes, we're just gonna do it. And it's like, it seems like the simplest thing ever.

Josh: And a massive fuck you to Mamma Mia, like for them, like, Shameless being like, look, like we— because Shameless, like, uh, Michelle and Zara was— were pitching it and they were saying, we want to be, um, on like the talent, we want to be on the show and do the show. And they were basically told, uh, maybe you'll get the show, but you will never be the ones hosting it. We'll have people on it. And they've just gone, done it. They picked themselves. They picked themselves. And now it's like I love when they screen, they do screen grabs of how their podcast is going in the charts and you see where their old bosses are sitting on the charts. You see where they're doing and they're above it.

Tommy: They don't work for Mamma Mia.

Ryan: And I mean, you guys, you guys picked, well, they both quit. They both worked for them. Yeah, pitched it to them and then they said, okay, we'll leave and do it on our own. Yeah. And you guys obviously picked yourselves, the number one podcast on Easy Street Collingwood.

Josh: Yeah, absolutely. Outside of Scuderia.

Ryan: That's one of the big ones, obviously.

Josh: Depends who you ask. Exactly.

Tommy: Yeah, it is. How do you reconcile the picking yourself thing within an industry that is all about being picked?

Ryan: Well, it's sort of similar to the ideas before in that I'm not gonna wait for someone else to pick the ideas. I'm gonna pick them and it's just a matter of where it ends up, but it's still gonna get picked. And so I think, yeah, it's really easy to blame other people and I do it all the time and go, oh, it's fucked and this is fucked. And it's like, get over yourself, man. If you wanna see your idea, then you just make it and don't complain. It's empowering. It is. It's also terrifying. And for me, it's forced me to learn some skills or pay for some outside skills, which is always a risk. But again, if you're doing it, you're doing it.

Josh: I feel like I was way less of a cockhead and arrogant, like maybe 7 years ago when I thought these things. But I think that now that I've seen, I feel like I've lived it now enough to be able to be like, all these things, like when big companies are thinking certain ways and doing certain things, you're like, they must know something that I don't know. And I feel like the longer you're in it, you're actually like, oh no, that's actually got no clue what they're doing. They've just got a bigger ship.

Ryan: I think when you're yourself, you're like growing and innovating something, where the bigger ships are protecting what they've got. Yeah, protecting what you've got versus growing for the future, polar opposites. Yeah, and the big companies are protecting what they've got.

Tommy: It's, it's across anything. If you've got a big family, lots of kids, just quitting your job and doing something that could reap a reward or could fucking ruin your family, it's the same thing. I think picking yourself across so many things is relevant.

Ryan: Although what about in a company level when, say, if a company is underperforming Um, but you go, oh, we're underperforming, but we've still got those couple of customers, so we just got to protect those couple ones we got. Or do you pivot and get another 10 big ones slightly somewhere else?

Tommy: Yeah, there's a massive chance that they'll have zero revenue if they do that. Yeah. And so it depends if there's other people relying on them. It's so, it's so layered. If you've got staff and they're relying on you, so maybe that's easier when you're leaner. Much easier.

Josh: And part of it too is like, we don't have all the answers yet. The thing, we're not making any money off our podcast. Most people—

Ryan: Just say number one, that's already sexy. Number one, we're killing it guys, huge 2018.

Josh: And I think that that's the thing, it's like we can do, like we're doing other media stuff that pays us and that's what we think is the current, where this current space sits. I think that the, yeah, there's a lot of people who challenge us based on, yeah, but how are you making money for all this sort of thing? And I look at how, The big networks are doing all this stuff and I don't see the connection between making heaps of cash and the 80% or 90% of the content that they're creating on their podcast networks, how they'll actually shift that. Yeah. So at the end of the day, it just becomes this game of like, we have a combined total reach of 10 million people. And they can say that and they sell to advertisers on that and the big business does Well, yeah, but then is that good for the small creator that is the bottom 20-30%?

Ryan: Yeah, it's tricky. Well, there's a lot of podcasters getting huge download numbers and not making anything.

Josh: Um, I feel like there's an opportunity there for them to do other stuff, to look at, to be entrepreneurial. I think that podcasting suits the entrepreneur, and we're not, we're not monetizing yet because we're I think still trying to understand this landscape and saying like, well, we have a bunch more years before we should be like, what other industry, what radio, what radio personality does something for a year and expects to be the best number one metro?

Ryan: Well, it's weird. I think there's the assumption that you have to make your podcast revenue by putting ads in your podcast. Where for my podcast, we did an episode where Bridget was on was talking about her thoughts on wanting to be a mom and she gets like jealous. Like she used to be excited when other girls got pregnant, like excited for them. And now she's still excited, but she gets a bit jealous and like, oh, you know, it's kind of like rubbing it in. So that was a podcast episode that blew up. And then news.com's like, oh, can Bridget just put what she said in words and we'll pay you X amount to run the article. And so is that podcast revenue? Pretty much. Yeah, exactly. And then so, and then I did a podcast on a certain topic and someone's like, oh, 'Oh, we heard you do that on the road thing on the podcast. Can you do a video of that and we'll pay this much?' And is that podcast revenue? Like, probably. Yeah. Like, it's all part of the big package then.

Tommy: Yeah, I think the people don't get it, can't wrap their head around it because it's confusing 'cause it's so new. The freemium model on YouTube, people who watch your free content just donate to you and give you money, but they're not actually paying for anything that they can't get for free. Some, yes, there's other ones that, you get little extra bits. But if you didn't pay, you actually have access to all this stuff. And so that's a hard one for people to get their head around, which it hasn't even really— it's now shifting. There's a problem at the moment of someone on one of those platforms, Patreon, being their, their $12,000 a month account just got ripped down by the platform because off the platform on another person's podcast, they said something that was deemed to break their T's and C's and they've now gone. It's super complex, but it's a very new conversation in a field that is very new. So it's like the first of its kind.

Josh: And what happens, I wonder, you talk about the legal risk associated with doing your radio show. Yeah. Are they having the same legal concerns across their, you know, 200, podcasts.

Ryan: Well, it's funny because often we can't do something on the radio show because legal didn't say so. And I'm like, well, if I did it on my own, I don't have a legal team, so they can't say no.

Josh: Yeah. And so, and that's the thing is like, I— they can't have that. The, uh, the onus ends up on the, um, the content creator at that point, right? Which like, I think when we, when we put something out there, we are standing by it and we're taking Are we standing by everything that's been on this episode? Absolutely. One thing from me. That you would like to take back?

Tommy: Nah, but I won't. I don't do it on the show. I just take it back after and then I deal with it.

Josh: Oh, so you'll say it to me later? Yeah, maybe. Okay, that's right.

Ryan: Like I shouldn't have mentioned that Amy was annoyed at the airport that one time? Oh no, that's fine.

Tommy: Yeah, that's totally fine because I said that she can start a podcast that just basically is about my bad traits and I'm okay with that.

Josh: That'd be a long one. Yeah, it's a daily talk show.

Tommy: It's successful. We've given away a ham. Yeah, there's radio out of 10. What kind of— what, how, from a radio guy, how radio was that?

Ryan: Not very, because we haven't had any Harvey Norman ads in 1 hour and 20 minutes. So 0 out of 10. We can always do one.

Josh: No fucking say, no pay, no say. No pay, no say. That's what we'll say. Yeah, it's a daily talk show. If you've listened this far, Yeah, maybe you don't think we're that shit. So given it's December, I'm gonna ask for reviews. Yeah, people can leave— we never do this, but on the podcast app, the purple app, iTunes, you can just leave us a review.

Ryan: And also follow me on Instagram.

Tommy: True, because he's doubling down on Facebook.

Josh: Yeah, well, yeah, now that they can't follow me, but they should go to the Daily Talk Show's Insta anyway and see The Ham video. Yeah, and they'll, uh, and they'll see Ryan up there. All right, have a good one, guys. Have a good weekend. Bye.