Our Last Show Of 2020

Tommy: The Daily Talk Show.

Josh: It's The Daily Talk Show, episode 936.

Tommy: What is happening, Gronks? What is going on? Happy Monday.

Josh: Back in the office.

Tommy: Yeah, second ep back. Feeling as good as the other one. The same, the same. No, I mean, I'm just a bit hungover after that Friday night's shenanigans for the Christmas party. And landed myself a cold sore.

Josh: You can see why people don't drink.

Tommy: Mate, I had forgotten and now I remember.

Josh: What was the actual experience waking up Saturday after a Friday night of drinking? First time in 4 months?

Tommy: 6.

Josh: 6 months?

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: But who's counting?

Tommy: Hurt very much. It hurt and silly boy. And I'm still feeling it days later.

Josh: Did you, when you're communicating to Amy, does she get it? Is she like, I understand that you're like, you've fucked up. It's all good today.

Tommy: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Fucked up. And then I go to my parents' place and just, they're just shaking heads at me.

Josh: Oh really? In like a smile, shaking their heads.

Tommy: Oh, just as in like, yeah, silly boy. Just silly boy. And I'm actually glad that I don't, normally drink, and that's going to be a thing moving forward. But I have a few occasions locked in. Like, I saw my brother out when that night, and I texted him the next day because he'd been out for 9 hours.

Josh: Oh wow.

Tommy: And he was in a world of pain the next day too.

Josh: So we did Cork and Canvas.

Tommy: Yeah, Cork and Canvas.

Josh: And then, um, Jenny was lovely.

Tommy: Yeah, Jenny from Cork and Canvas, shout out to you for putting up with us, the loosest group she's ever had. I think it was her last shift actually, put off it. No, but, um, I mean, I'm here today, but this is what happens. You— this is— I remember I used to think it was, uh, like alcohol giving me cold sores, but it's just like your body run down. So I've got a fucking cold sore on my lip, which, um, you haven't pointed out, which is nice.

Josh: I can't even notice it, to be honest. Yeah, just looks like you got a bigger lip.

Tommy: Well, you know, the good thing is masks are done in Melbourne majority of the time. If you go to the supermarket, mask on. Yeah, but everywhere else, no masks. So I had it, I put the mask on for a little bit and it really annoyed me. Yeah, just because of the cold sore.

Josh: Well, we've got an announcement, you know we love announcements. Last show for 2020.

Tommy: Yeah, last show, put it in the calendar.

Josh: You're too late, you're too late, you're too late. No, but it's really, it's quite easy once you say, hey, we're going to finish up for the year, you start to think, it's like Why wait? Why wait? I think we've had a massive year. We've gone from doing, you know, 2 shows a day and you feel, I think I can see in the team, and especially if I speak for myself, I feel the burnout.

Tommy: You speak for me, then I'll speak for you.

Josh: I feel the burnout. I feel like it's not even a burnout. It's like, okay, what is, you know, if you listen to hi@thedailytalkshow.com, have you noticed the burnout? But I think that that I have seen it in myself where it's like, you know what, like it's like when you can see yourself, like it's almost an out-of-body experience. I feel like I've spent more time out of my body.

Tommy: Did you die?

Josh: Maybe, maybe this is all, that could, that actually explains a lot. I think, no, I think there's so much at the moment. And I think that this happens maybe from stress and anxiety and all that sort of thing. You can see yourself doing, saying and doing things. It's almost like, and you can, you just feel the tension. And so I was like, what is the, what is the benefit of potentially blowing up on the podcast when we can wait until 2021 to have a blow-up?

Tommy: I mean, surprisingly, you don't have to play with it and put your face.

Josh: He's picked up a lens cap. He's got it. He's got all of these soothers. He started off by grabbing his neck, and now can we, can you just take the lens caps and piss me off to to be honest.

Tommy: The lens cap blew us up. Yeah. Um, no, it's like, it's like when you see the end in sight, it's all— that's all you can then think of.

Josh: You're busting to piss, and then we realised that we actually had a portaloo right next to us.

Tommy: So that's where I was thinking yesterday about, um, how amazing is that there hasn't actually been a real blowup. Like, I think the, the year which you, when you're in a situation like COVID and like not knowing what the business is going to be or if the world's going to blow up or, you know, fucking turn to shit, which a lot of it has. Melbourne seems to be all right, but we went through that really hard point. It's interesting because you look, when you're in it, you don't think about it like after you've experienced it and then looking back on it being like, that's fucked. Most times to cope with anything, you like tell yourself a storey that it's not that bad. And so even when you're pushing yourself to the edge, whether it be burnout, the storey half the time is never actually how bad it is, or how, you know, like it's— that's like the toxic fucking suppressing of your feelings is actually just the coping mechanism to get through it.

Josh: Which you've done a good job Like, don't you think? Like, I think that, like, I think that probably it was like— no, but I think that some people would say stoic or whatever, but it's like, okay, I'm going to— even if shit is— well, it's only stoic to a point because it's stoic to the point where you're not talking about the issue.

Tommy: Yes.

Josh: Or how you're feeling, but then it ends up coming out in a myriad of other ways. And so, um, yeah, I mean, this is the benefit. Part of it's like, um, uh, what— why are we doing this? Why are we finishing early? I think it's because it's like this, this podcast, everything that we're doing, I think like we've obviously spoken about the fact that this is, you know, about the 10 years and about all of this stuff, and that is all still very much true and important. And I think— but I think that the other thing is that It like doesn't have to be easy all the time. It's not easy. We spent 80% of this year in the not easy bit of doing stuff. But then just because things aren't easy, there's different levels of pain. It's like, I mean, I've— I'm a cyclist now, so I can talk about this. But there's pain that is actually like, oh, I've just herniated a disc or I've broken a leg. I should stop. Yeah. And then there's the growing pain. And I think that what we're just discovering is that through all of the work that we've done this year, we're at the point of if we pull too hard or push too hard, we end up actually hurting ourselves, which will then only affect the ability to turn up next year and have an awesome year.

Tommy: Yeah, yeah. I mean, if— what, what was this time last year? I mean, it was the same date, it was the 7th, 7th of December. Um, where were we then? That was like, we'd come back from Los Angeles and we were still pushing through with shows, and that was even tense and hard back then. And so it's interesting, we've always— like, you can always shift your physiology by going into doing a show. And then feeling good on the other side, but not necessarily everyone being in a great place. And so the tricky bit is it's not just you and I anymore. Yeah, that's because then we can just manage our burnout, or it's just like you push it, then you're done.

Josh: Yeah, but then when there's more people involved, there's like collective triggering that's going on. So it's like, what, you see how us being burnt out then affects other people. And so I think that there's, there's that element too.

Tommy: Um, I'm just, yeah, I'm, I'm glad we're through this year.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: And, and it be better out the other side than it was going in for us. It like honestly is. And so that's for the show, that's for all our relationships with everybody involved in the show, the community. It's, um, it is Like I've said to a bunch of people, it's like we've managed to grow our business, but I don't feel like I've left my house.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: And so you can grow when it feels like you are confined to a space or like new lots of learning, new thinking, which can feel like you're not progressing because it's like everything's— you're having to take on so much new information, which doesn't necessarily in the moment feel like you're progressing because you're feeling like you're like, oh, fuck. What's going on. And that was COVID for most of us. I mean, fuck, we're so grateful in this country. Think about, look at America, dude.

Josh: I do think about like the gratitude for just being the lottery around like where you're born.

Tommy: Dude, I didn't choose it.

Josh: Yeah, yeah.

Tommy: I didn't choose it. And so I was just the strongest sperm and I still am, you know, between me and my brothers, much stronger than you guys. No, it's good. Another 2 weeks before we actually finish up for the year and that's gonna go in a second.

Josh: Yeah, yeah, 2 weeks, yeah.

Tommy: Yeah, 14 days.

Josh: Yeah, I mean, yeah, there's the client, like I guess part of it is that when things, like I guess people don't think about this necessarily all of the time, but it's just when you are successful in the thing that you're trying to do, that doesn't mean that problems go away. If anything, you get more problems, but the problems outweigh the thing that you're working towards. So if you think about like, there's, there's, um, much simpler ways of living. Like, that's what I think about, right? Like, it's like, oh, so, so much of the stress— so, so much of the stress that we have is self-imposed. And so there is the other version, which is, oh, you could like remove all of that. But that— but I feel like what we're, we're dealing with is we have this really strong purpose. And I think that that's what's, what's good is when you have a strong purpose, it feels like you can work through all of that stuff. Um, and I think like everything's a story. Like for us The storey has just changed. The storey of like the, at the start, all we had was you and I, and all we could say was, we're going to do this thing. We're going to keep, you know, and we've, I think I've surprised myself in how consistent we've been, how we've shown up. And we've, we've almost like arrived at that place where it's like that, that story, that's been one part of the journey, but now there's the next storey of like, oh, how can we support our team more? How can we build something that's going to, to last, you know, the next 10 years? And so that's going to require something else. It's not using— it's like we've been just hammering away using the same hammer and we haven't yet had the moment of stopping and saying, oh, like, we've actually built out a toolbox, we have all these other tools and all that sort of thing. Maybe we should do something else, or maybe there's other things, or how do we even Uh, how do we, how do we reset? How can we look at what we're doing and say, okay, like, let's make some changes?

Tommy: Well, I mean, what a storey is a lot of the time, it's just either a belief or a version that gives clarity to what you're doing. So, uh, you know, like, and that's the problem with fucking anyone giving advice about what to do. And so if we told someone to do what we've done it most likely won't work.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: And that's where it's someone like Gary Vee's hustle, hustle, hustle, work. It's like, that's such toxic information for a group of people. Some it might work for.

Josh: Also, some people need to work harder.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: Some people need to be reflective. Some— but like, the idea of, uh, don't overthink— some people need to overthink. And so this, like, the this prescriptive sort of advice around this is what you need to do is different. And so the other thing too is it's like there was a time where we thought that what the business was going to be was the daily talk show. We thought that we were going to have a crew and a team that was just supporting this show, would be creating original content around the daily talk show stuff. And then there was a shift. We worked out that like, oh, that's actually not the best way for us to get to the freedom that we want. To be able to get to the freedom that we want, we need to bring in other people, we need to support them, we need to do all of these other things. And so I think that what can happen is we can create a storey at the start, it gets very sticky, things change, but the storey is so sticky that we can't actually pivot. Like, I mean, there's— fucking hate that word— but like, you can't in the moment realise that like, oh, hang on, if I'm not where I— like, if we've got all of this new information, why, why not actually change your mind? Why not? Uh, fuck, the car's out there. Like, can we one day fix the, the sound in there? I'm sure no one else heard it.

Tommy: I'm sure you didn't. Um, so the story— but so for instance, a storey is, uh, told by an individual that other people either listen or it's to yourself, right? And so if the storey you can be okay with being a different path to the one that you were telling, then that's as good as it needs to be.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: And so because people just listen to what you're saying, or they— and that's where you don't being influenced by, you know. So for us, if we were influenced by what some people might think, even friends of like 'Oh, you got to keep going.' Yeah, it's like that's not considering the situation or actually living the story. And so you can shift it, you can make it exactly how you want to work it out. But I mean, for us, we needed to not do a show for years on end because we're a couple of battlers with no talent.

Josh: But it's also that saying of like, if you always do what you always did, you'll always get what you always got. And it's like, um, yes, there is the iterative approach, which is what we've been executing on, which is show up every single day and you'll build. And that's happening. But then there's also like, we are at the, the tip of something greater that's happening. And so it's just, I think part of it too is patterns. Like, I think that We can all say, okay, I think because I'm so obvious in my approach, or I'm like, it's— I think that most people, you know, most people who listen to the show, the Gronks, know what I'm like. I think it's pretty, pretty clear. And I think that all of those patterns, all of my thinking and how, like, all of this, the cyclical nature of everything. So it's whether it's like the social media conversation or relationships and not having big groups, like all of these different things are things that are patterns which you need to work out. Okay, these patterns— so like, what are the patterns telling us? Like, what are we actually— like, if these things keep on happening— and I guess drinking is like a good example. It's like, what do we get out of drinking? What are the— like, what, what's the, um, every time you drink, what happens? Or every time you do this, what happens? Or hang on, like, this is the third or fourth or fifth friendship or relationship or whatever it is, interaction that has gone a certain way. And so part of it is me realizing, oh, hang on, like, these patterns, whilst they might involve external forces, can only be changed with my willingness to adapt and recognise it and then say, okay, so if these things are going to happen if the stress is going to get too much or if this is going to happen. It's like, what's like the version— like, what can I do? What's in my control to, to change that? And I think that, um, there's even the pattern, I guess, of like making big changes. So I like big changes. The appeal of changing that, like changing this and having that moment, is appealing. And so that I have to ask the question of like, am I just going into the pattern, which is just like too much, put it to the side, or is this listening and doing the thing that's going to be right for all of our, you know, mental health?

Tommy: What do you— which one do you think it is?

Josh: Well, I think that you have to, um, you have to think about what— like, why, why are you doing it? And so I think for, for me, it feels like it's a gut— there's a gut instinct element to it as well. Like, I've looked over—

Tommy: sure, you're just not sick from Friday night.

Josh: I think it's like, like, gut instinct is like super powerful. And if we don't listen to our gut on things, like, I think that sometimes even if we think that this is the case— so for instance, it's like if I think that I'm going to burn out or it's not going to end well, even if that's not the case me thinking about that, I feel like it's more likely to happen. Like, because you're projecting it, right? Like, you, you're feeling the energy. If you're feeling for something to happen, if you're fucking waiting for the thing, the thing is what— like, just like the fucking The Secret, if you think about negative shit, like, if you think about, like, uh, you know, you know, put the woo-woo shit aside, whatever you think about is way more likely to happen, right? Like, and so part of it is if we're thinking a certain way, we need to address it and think about, okay, like, what does this, what does this mean? What is it? What's this sign?

Tommy: Like, I think that it's a weird one because you can, you can think that you're going to be sick and you're not, and not get sick. You can be worried about something and, or you can be in a state where you're thinking a certain way and then exercise and you're thinking the complete opposite by the end of it. I'm actually— and so there's a fine balance of at what point do you listen? And then, yeah, it has to all make sense.

Josh: So when do you, like, what's an example of when you've listened to signals that you've gotten from yourself?

Tommy: I think it's definitely now going into Christmas. It all makes sense to take time off. That's why I'm all for it. I think the harder one is when did I think something when, when was I acting without listening to me thinking that I shouldn't have been doing it?

Josh: Also, like, drinking coffee, all of these things that you've decided to stop, you got a signal. Yeah, that told you there was a, there was a point in which you decided, hang on, like, I need to change.

Tommy: Yeah, definitely.

Josh: And so for some people it's really big, so some, sometimes it's the, it's the really like— and then this is the whole thing, this is why big things we can't control what's happened in the past, but what we can control is like, okay, how we're responding, how we're reacting, what are we learning. And so I think there's— that's an element of it. When you get the signal, when you get the big thing, there's a version which is like, are you going to accept that as your reality? Are you going to say, oh, this is, this is my life, this is how I do it? Uh, there's a thing called— it's called the crucible moment, which I I remember my friend Sai telling me about it, but it's like the big thing that happens in people's lives that radically changes everything. And she was talking about like, uh, many protagonists that we love, that sort of hero's journey, have like— they have an example of that crucible moment where it's like rock bottom. Things have to get worse before you can have the lens and the focus and the perspective to make the change.

Tommy: Oh, relationships for sure. I think early days for me being in relationships or being with people, I'm like, I just know I shouldn't be. And then it's— and so, but you're not listening to it. And that's like, think about all the things in life where there is some, not reward, but there's some benefit of being in the thing even though you're thinking another thing. Business relationship. Um, yeah.

Josh: And are you like on the scale, on this, on the scale? Like, I think that I'm pretty in tune. Like, I think that part of it is like, I think that my internal voice, whether it serves me or not, is very loud. And I struggle to, once these things are happening, like, or if I'm thinking something, I find it hard to, to shift out of that mindset, if that makes sense as well. Yeah.

Tommy: And then there's a I guess then there's the version of, like you're saying, the pattern thing. If the pattern is that you're shifting things based on— yeah, it's a hard one because it's like you can also be wrong. Your gut also can be wrong.

Josh: Well, if you think about someone who's like been in a bunch of relationships and then you hear the same storey from them, like, oh, I've met this person, like, she's actually the one, like, fuck the last, but like there's all these things where it's like we do a really good job of tricking ourselves.

Tommy: But yeah, I think it's the advice that a lot of people give of like, listen to your body. That's one way of it, like in relation to your health. Or I guess it's— fuck, how weird is the human existence? Like how you can feel— like you think about anxiety as an emotion and the feeling that it can give you, like visceral feeling. And what it means. And some people actually have anxiety and it not actually be real about the thing that they're going into. It might be a situation their body's responding. They probably really don't need to be responding like that, but there's something going on internally. Like, even sometimes I feel funny. I'm just like, what the fuck? What am I like? It's like nerves.

Josh: Well, I think that part of it, like, one thing that I've recognised is like the speed in which I go to any issue is very quick. Like, I don't— and I think that that's been the shift for me, is like trying to give time. Like, so if I feel some— a certain way, like, I think that most of the time if it's a big issue, like, you'll know about it straight away. I guess part of it is— but then I don't know if that's true because I think that like part of the feedback you've given me previously is that I will layer things. And so I'll— so then the hard thing—

Tommy: I know what you mean though, because Amy and I, it's probably Amy and I where I want to sort it out ASAP, like if something's happened in the moment. Yeah, but she's needed time to think about it, or— and so then it's like everything's dialled back, all emotions are trying to think.

Josh: Yeah, it's trying to work out. So like everyone's processing everything completely different. Like I think that the, the most fucked up, most basic thing that I'm only at 30 really getting my head around is everyone is living in their own reality with their own story. And so you can see, like, everyone's seeing something different, even though you can have the exact same experience. Everyone is experiencing it— that is experiencing it differently. And so I think that's been the learning for me, where it's like when I'd come to someone and talk to them, I'm coming from the place of like 'Well, we all know what's going on here because we've all been around. Like, of course, like, we're feeling this way because of this,' or like— and people are like shocked, or they're like, 'Oh no, what, really?' And so part of it is like that communications side of things, or just like when providing feedback or thinking or whatever it is, is it's like you have to come to the— like, you have to come to that communication with the idea that everyone else has no idea what's on in your mind, which is a fair thing to do. But it's very easy that when you're in a moment to be like, we are having a collective experience, and that experience is— it's like we're all seeing everything the same way, where it's like so not the case. Yeah, yeah.

Tommy: Well, um, the year has been, um, all sorts. It's been— I mean, we've done more shows in a year than we've ever done. Hundreds and hundreds at the tour day. We did a couple of months, 3 months or something, of 12 shows a week. So 5 twice a day, 5 days a week, and then the 2 weekend shows. And we did all of those shows live. Yeah, because that's when we were in the lockdown.

Josh: Yeah, yeah.

Tommy: And so there was a period of time where we didn't stop, which I think— I mean, how many people got around that? Like, people were watching and it was like a part of that little mission that we were on, they were a part of.

Josh: Yeah, I think the other thing too is it's like, so during that time, I think that there's been a shift too. So when we started, it was about serving The Gronks, which it still is about serving the Gronks. But the other thing too is it's like, as we've built a business, all of a sudden you have like that element too. So it's not, you're not just thinking about the listeners, but you're also thinking about like, how's everyone else going? And I feel like that's a, um, that's a challenge for me going forward, I think. And that's the bit of like sort of reconciling I need to do, which is how do you— how can you have a big team and like, how do you bring empathy whilst it not sort of taking an emotional toll? And I think that that's like a challenge when you have a team. You want to make sure that everyone's doing okay. You want to make sure that like you're listening to everyone and just like like I can't have too many. I've got enough fucking in my head that like those other voices I find taxing. And so I think that's why over the years it's like, like I'm excited to not fucking see anyone over Christmas. Like, like, let's fucking—

Tommy: I'll be out of state, mate.

Josh: So good. Yeah, but like, I think there's a— yeah, there's an element of like the signal-to-noise thing where it's like some people, like just like multitasking or whatever, if you're hearing all of these different voices.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: Yeah, it can get a lot.

Tommy: Yeah, yeah. Well, I mean, it's been a weird year. It's been great in so many ways, and, um, very, very thankful for everyone who's listened.

Josh: Yeah, yeah. And grateful that we've, we've got this platform because I think that this platform allows us to do the thing that we want to do, which is create to serve people. So like, I think that that's been a hard thing, which is like Okay, we wanted to— obviously the storey that we told is that we need to be there for Gronkhs over Christmas and New Year's and all that sort of thing. I mean, we've done a lot of shows. Hopefully you can go back into the back catalog. You can't listen to Christmas last year.

Tommy: Oh, that's a good idea.

Josh: Bit of throwback stuff. But I think that it doesn't have to— like, I think that that storey is— it's like, it's a little bit not to be too wanky, but it's like a little bit like you've got to put on your mask before you help the other people. And I think that sorting out other people can be really enticing and sorting out other people can mean that you don't deal with you. Yeah, I think that that's like for us or for me anyway, I'm like, everyone else aside, I think like maybe I'm just projecting. I think everyone's burnt out, but I'm just going to say like, this is me, like I'm feeling it. Maybe other people are feeling it too. Yeah, but January 16th, yeah, we're back.

Tommy: Yeah, you can put that one in the calendar because it's in the future. Uh, what's that? And that is our third year anniversary of starting the show.

Josh: Third birthday.

Tommy: Third birthday. Um, yeah, it'll all happening. Oh, thanks to, uh, GB, Grace, Sevs, that team, Jess, who has— it wasn't involved at the start of the year.

Josh: Wasn't involved in that.

Tommy: And then GB wasn't involved. And then, you know, look at all the names. It's 5 by the end of the year. And then everyone who's been listening, watching on YouTube, live streaming, obviously. Oh yeah, yeah.

Josh: Brian, Amy putting up with our shit, holding down the fort.

Tommy: Big shout out to Bodhi.

Josh: He's been, you know, she king.

Tommy: Yeah, yeah. Bringing the stories, bringing the content in the time that you don't have much, you know. She'll get one.

Josh: A kid or— Yeah, I'm all good.

Tommy: Lots of content there, but we love you. We love everyone.

Josh: Love you, Cronks. All right, it's The Daily Talk Show. We'll see you in 2021. Have a great Christmas, New Year's, and we'll see you next year.

Tommy: See you guys, love you.