Podcast Interviews

Tommy: The Daily Talk Show.

Josh: It's The Daily Talk Show, episode 898.

Tommy: Happy Fat Friday, Gronks. What's happening? What's going on?

Josh: Uh, you, uh, you told me that you wanted to, uh, wanted to try a specific beverage today. What is the beverage?

Tommy: Um, I've gone against that because our initial conversation, it was the, the Berry Blaster or some, some name from Hungry Jack's. It was like these little balls that burst in your mouth when you drink it. You said it looks like asthma. That's— And so, I've gone to—

Josh: Oh, wow. It's a crispy— You've got a Krispy Kreme cup and it's got a doughnut on top. Is that a— I'm guessing it looks like it would be a cookies and cream sitcho?

Tommy: Oh, mate, have you been before?

Josh: No, I just know these things. Is that right?

Tommy: Yes, it is. Oh great, cookies and cream thick shake, and it's got cream on the top.

Josh: And did you go and get it, or did you get it delivered?

Tommy: I could have got it delivered. Fuck, I'm old school like that. Just drive down.

Josh: Well, does Krispy Kreme have a drive-through in the one near Bulleen?

Tommy: That was why I drove down.

Josh: It was very convenient.

Tommy: I reckon quick, probably quicker than the Uber driver, because I saw when I pulled up an Uber driver walking out, had a 12-pack.

Josh: Well, the thing is, I think that you would drive more because you have a driveway. Do you have a driveway? Yeah. I didn't even know, your new place.

Tommy: Carport, like driveway, very easy.

Josh: The thing is that going down into the basement, getting the car. Imagine if you had a car stacker, like when Bri and I were looking at apartments, car stackers were just a no-go.. But I would like to think that if the car was in a more convenient position, if I was in the suburbs and the car was just sitting out on the driveway or in the garage, I'd be way more likely to drive to Krispy Kreme.

Tommy: Yeah, it is about the ease. I mean, just on the carport thing, the stacker thing, what's even worse, an apartment with a Car lift that takes you down into a car park because that's what Leon Shergren has.

Josh: Leon, yeah. Did you say Leon?

Tommy: Leon.

Josh: Leon.

Tommy: I said Leon really quickly.

Josh: Leon.

Tommy: It's Leon really quickly. Leon.

Josh: Yeah, no, but I think that was— That's like a— Is that not a car stacker? Is that different?

Tommy: It's a car lift that takes you into a car park. I thought that's what he was in.

Josh: I guess so, yeah.

Tommy: He drives in. Takes him up and then he drives out. Whereas I think a car stacker, you go in, it takes you, you either can let your car go, like you get out of your car, close it, and then press the button, takes it. Whereas I think he's legit got a car lift that he, that it makes sense for places like, imagine apartment blocks where you can't get a winding sort of, like your ones gets real steep. It's real sort of fucking It's a bit intense.

Josh: I know. But anyway, so when you were talking about beverages, I went on to Uber Eats, typed in thick shake and I did two words, thick space shake. I don't like milkshakes. I've got no time for milkshakes. And the thick shake that I landed on was a thick shake from Ben Jerry's in the city on Flinders— I think it's Flinders Street or Flinders Lane. Um, however, so I ordered it, uh, well and truly before the show, so it arrived in time. I think, uh, it got picked up, and then about 5 minutes into, or maybe even 10 minutes into the ride, the rider canceled.

Tommy: Uh, what?

Josh: Oh, he's fallen off. Well, so this— yeah, this is the thing. So I, I, uh, I straight away went to the health and the well-being of the Uber Eats delivery guy.

Tommy: Your milkshake.

Josh: Sorry, exactly. No, I mean, I feel like this is, I'm an evolved human now. I feel like maybe 3, 4 months ago I would've been like, fuck yeah, where is it? And I would've just tried to, I would've tried to find him on Facebook and message him and say, hey dude, what's up? Did you have my milkshake?

Tommy: Just one word, ombudsman.

Josh: But so where I ended up thinking was I'm like, maybe, there's a lot of tram tracks around here, maybe he's gotten a wheel stuck in a tram track.

Tommy: I know.

Josh: And so, uh, so that's okay.

Tommy: What can you do? What can you— how much more can you follow up? Like, once it's cancelled, any reason?

Josh: So the only thing that it gave me the option is there was a help button, and it was— and it said something like, uh, have you been, uh, charged for this, for a cancelled order? Because obviously we we shouldn't be paying for it. But I quickly went through and rather than doing Thick Shake, 2 words, I decided to do Thick Shake, 1 word, just to see if there was other results. And I found somewhere closer that is sort of a smaller establishment as well. Oh, good.

Tommy: Support local.

Josh: Exactly. And so, I ordered that straight away. I handed Bree the phone. It was, it had 15 minutes to go before it arrived here when we started recording. So, I'm hoping in the next 10 minutes, guys, stick around because you might get to see Josh Janson fucking suck on a straw. Can you describe your thick shake?

Tommy: Yeah, it's great. It's thick.

Josh: That's what you want.

Tommy: First thing you want. And it's got big bits of like Oreo. It's everything you want.

Josh: It sounds like it's giving you asthma, which only good things in life give you asthma.

Tommy: Oh my God. I see these things and I think, fuck, I'd love to just get that. Like, and that's what this day is about, Fat Friday. It's that thing that you don't normally go to, and this is definitely one that I wouldn't normally go to. Like, I, I, um, Amy popped into the doctor's just near us, and I waited as she just went in, had to hand in like a blood sample. Anyway, she— I, I was at the entrance to the, the Krispy Kreme drive-through, and it was like 1 PM., and this young bloke was just, just rocking up and he's just like, yeah, just a 12-pack of donut. And I was like, fuck, mate, he's living the good life. It's like seeing a guy in a suit in the city at 3 PM just after work, you're leaving work or something, and you're just licking, licking a Paddle Pop, or you got yourself a little Magnum.

Josh: It's like, mate, living in the dream. Well, I mean, that's what I respect with Ventra IP, uh, who— they're our, um, our web host of choice. I don't know if you've seen, but In their office, they're always doing donuts. They've always got like doughnuts just sitting there with hand sanitiser next to it.

Tommy: Really?

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: You gotta these days, don't you?

Josh: Yeah, you do. You do.

Tommy: I mean, I've got that and I've got, um, this is the real estate agent that dropped off hand sanitiser to the neighbourhood.

Josh: The gift that keeps on giving.

Tommy: He's always watching over me. The guy from Barry Plant.

Josh: That's hilarious. Um, I was, uh, I was thinking, I was looking back at some of the footage and the snippets that Mr. 97 created for, um, the Seth Godin episode.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: And I realised something that I didn't pick up on at the time, and that was, I think it was, I think that both of us, when we're speaking to Seth, he is, he is, uh, you know, one of our heroes. So I think we're a little bit nervous. We're like, there's no denying. Would you agree?

Tommy: Well, I think it's like we're silly and we like to be silly, and I like to think that even when we are nervous, we bring some silly fun cheekiness to an interview. But definitely respect is due where, you know, respect is needed where it's due. What's that saying? You just got to give respect where it is due, and Seth Godin deserved our respect. I don't know if we swore. Do we swear in it?

Josh: Well, we did in the montage, but no, just things are a little bit different, right? Like it was the— we don't really have conversations before our guests normally, and you're like, hey, it might have gone through, I've got a bunch of questions, I've done like just stuff that we normally, you know, we don't go to that amount of effort, would you say?

Tommy: Definitely. Well, yeah, I think, you know, when that— when it is time to do that. But in fairness, or just a thought is, I don't know if it necessarily is the better approach because maybe what you're referencing is what you get as a product of using that approach, or maybe not. What was your thinking? So you're saying, you know, like it seemed like we're nervous, is that what you're saying?

Josh: Well, yeah, I just, I felt the, uh, not Maybe nerves is the wrong, like it's just the butterflies, it's the extra anticipation, it's the heightened feeling. And when I was watching myself in the snippet, there was a specific snippet where my eyes rolled completely back just like midway through a conversation. Like I was thinking it was when I asked Seth if he had abs and I just wrote, like I'm just like, as I'm talking, my eyes are completely rolled in the back of my head, like trying to like, grasp, like, have I made a bad decision? Um, but can you do it for me?

Tommy: Show me.

Josh: Like, it was, it was like—

Tommy: I didn't remember that, but I—

Josh: Oh, do you remember it?

Tommy: I re— Yeah, I have seen that bit now that you say it. It's, it, it's very quick, and, and I, in my mind, I think it's like you sort of searching for the word and then you go for it. Like, it's like just mid You know, that's real searching, right?

Josh: Like, don't you think that— but I even felt potentially like, uh, how we were sitting, everything was a little bit different. But what I liked about it is that, you know, we've, we've done, uh, you know, over 800 episodes and we still have the opportunity to grow and get better. And it shows how many you have to do before you really get comfortable in every circumstance.

Tommy: 100%. Like, if you want to create a podcast and have the biggest guest on first, good luck. You'll shit yourself. Yeah, I've done— I've done 2 years of radio, 5 days a week, 3 hours a day. Like, and I, I'm— yeah, like you said, I'm fucking still nervous going into a podcast because then it's all different. And then I did feel more comfortable It didn't feel like the first time. We were sweating more, but it still feels like the, um, I guess it's what you do want when you're doing something.

Josh: It's intensity. I think it's realising and recognising that you only have this small period of time. And I think that the other thing too is there's this 15 minutes at the start of every podcast, and I haven't heard any podcaster work it out, but how do you get, how do you build the rhythm and sort of the cadence of the style of show that you want. Because I think that like when I am in the moment, one of the things I was feeling is that we were going to interviewee or questionee, like it wasn't necessarily connecting, like our questions were a little bit detached from his answers potentially, where normally we're very good at like listening thinking about the question and then responding.

Tommy: Yeah, I guess you want to cover some ground, and so that way you do have themes, because you see how you can go down a theme for the first 20 minutes, like if you weren't wanting to sort of stack it and get the most out of it. And so, I mean, one of the— we don't edit this podcast, so then a friend of mine I don't know, I'm only saying friend of mine because I don't know if you'd want me to say this, but he, um, he literally deletes the first 20 minutes of the— of what he's putting out there.

Josh: Yeah, wow.

Tommy: And so it's like, he's like, yeah, it's literally just this fluff rapport building at the start, and I don't care about it, but I just— I get them to be, you know, talking about exactly what they need, um, or, you know, getting them comfortable, and then the gold comes. And so We don't— I don't know, I don't know the answer. I mean, yeah, the answer is to do a 5-hour podcast and then just— yeah, the first 20 minutes is actually really short in comparison. Eric Weinstein just put out a podcast that's 5 and a half hours.

Josh: Really? What is it about?

Tommy: Ridiculous. The meaning of life, the fucking— the, uh, it's a bit of time concept of everything. I don't know, it's some fucking crazy podcast, but, um, 3 hours, like I mean, there's a lot of 3-hour podcasts these days, and so the longer— my point is, the longer you do, the, the shorter the first bit up the front is in the scheme of things. Or, you know, there's more bulk end.

Josh: I think that what I've, um, worked out that I want to do— so I was thinking about growth, where, where I can grow. I'm not necessarily good at preparation. Oh, so I'm always preparing I feel like my life, and this is the excuse that I use, the excuse I use is like—

Tommy: Are you hiding?

Josh: Yeah, I'm hiding. I'm hiding. I'm definitely hiding. No, the excuse I use is that I'm constantly analysing and thinking about— Oh, here we go. We have the thick shake. We have the thick shake. That was very quick. Thanks, Breeza.

Tommy: If you can tip that upside down and it not come out, I'll do something crazy.

Josh: No, no, absolutely not.

Tommy: Because that's a thick shake. You know you can get something called a mud shake? No, cement.

Josh: I think I did one of them this morning.

Tommy: Cement.

Josh: Hang on, hang on, it's just— it's all a bit stuck. This is a nightmare.

Tommy: Oh, it's because it's— you gotta— you've tried to take it out of the little holes.

Josh: Okay. Okay, here we go. All right, so I've got to get the Glad Wrap off. First impressions is it feels a bit milky, but yeah, I'll let you know.

Tommy: Josh, mine has become milky. It was very thick, but it becomes milky.

Josh: Can I— I'll show you the colour and you tell me what the flavour you think is. Yeah.

Tommy: Oh, good game.

Josh: And it's not a— it's not horse related like last time. Although, right, hang on, there's a lot of fiddly bits.

Tommy: I mean, I just grabbed mine off the girl and sipped it.

Josh: That's the whole thing. This is what— this is the one thing with delivery especially liquid stuff, like, because you, you get upset if it, if it goes everywhere. Okay, nearly done.

Tommy: I reckon there'd be a large portion of people, even that you know, that have never had anything liquid delivered, meaning like a coffee or a smoothie actually delivered through Uber Eats. Have they thrown it?

Josh: Yeah, it's not— it's— yeah, no, no, it's just a straw. Uh, no, I, um, I agree, I wouldn't I wouldn't go liquid. You've seen, um, I had a coffee delivered. All right, what do you think the flavour is?

Tommy: Oh, oh, it's like a, um, salted caramel.

Josh: Yeah, nailed it. Okay, let me try it.

Tommy: It's that bottom bit, it's that sort of caramel down the bottom, vanilla looking. Short straw is thin and you got it up quite quickly.

Josh: I didn't order a Big M, but that's what I've got. What is it with places? What is it with places?

Tommy: Did you get it?

Josh: I don't think there's any ice cream in it.

Tommy: And you know what? A guy had to die for that.

Josh: No, he died for the other one.

Tommy: Yeah, I know, but it's all in the process. Just to get us a thick shake today, an individual had to lose his life on the—

Josh: I know, but the, um Preparation.

Tommy: Preparation.

Josh: So yeah, I was thinking about preparation. I hide behind this idea that I'm always preparing or always researching. Talked about the second brain stuff. I need to get better. This is specifically on the Seth episode. I identified the issues with it, I think, at the start. So I woke up early to get that montage together. Seth did a great job of grabbing, you know, 10 minutes of content, and then I just whittled it down in the morning. But I was doing— that was my focus beforehand. So I was like editing and putting it all together. The thing that I didn't have, which I think every podcaster should do, is what is the first question? Was it— what is the first question that it, um I think that there could be something great about, uh, you know, the book or something like that just up the front. It's an easy win, but it's very clear, it's very short, and it gets them talking, the guest talking. What do you think?

Tommy: I think it's a good strategy. I think if— make sure you have the fucking second question also, because it might fall flat.

Josh: That's the first one, but I think that that's the part of the paralysis. Or if I think about the, the stresses of the whole thing, you're playing this video, you're like, there's all these things happening, yeah, there's— you just need the kickoff. Because the thing is, like, it's, it's— we've got so many dots that we can connect, and I think that we're good at connecting dots, but finding the very First dot. So I knew that I wanted to, like, that whole abs thing. I knew that I wanted to ask about the abs or the Ultimate Frisbee, or, you know, you know, you wanted to ask him about the napping thing. Maybe it's too absurd to ask that as the first question because it seems a bit silly, or maybe it just feels like you want to give a, um, a sense of respect at the start, or sort of it's a little bit performative. It's like, okay, I'm, I'm being the interviewer at this— interviewer at the start, and then we start to derail it and turn it into what I think is what makes a daily talk show.

Tommy: I think you're also talking about something that has to play out perfectly, because if you don't edit and you're wanting it to hit from start to finish, there's no room for error at that point. Like, you can stuff up a way you articulate something, or— but in saying that, it's like having a first question is a, is a good fix. It's— have a first question if you've got no fucking questions.

Josh: No, but no, this is— but this is the whole thing. No, no, but this is my point. I think that it's a trap to be like, you have so— because it becomes analysis paralysis. It's like, did you write it down?

Tommy: That's maybe—

Josh: No, well, I had them, I'd written them down, but they weren't sort of in an accessible sort of format. So, I think that, yeah, potentially, I think the writing down stuff, but also the taking off the, you know, the job of having to work out what you're going to ask. I think it is a great thing just to free up the mind. Yeah.

Tommy: And so I was thinking about the first time we chatted to him, it was in person, it was in his office. We didn't have any paper in front of us and we nailed it.

Josh: Yeah. And I think that each— like, there was nothing wrong with the chat.

Tommy: Nice messages.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: Saying, love, loved it, love Seth.

Josh: Yeah. But I think that I'm always like Don't you feel like— for me, I'm like, okay, how did you feel? Were there any changes that you would make, or did you think it was flawless?

Tommy: I didn't— never think anything's flawless.

Josh: I—

Tommy: what I— even just referencing that first chat with him, it was like it just went and it went, went well. And yeah, feel the experience. I, I was quite high after it, like I'd you know, I felt quite on a high after putting that energy into it. I think that's like what that reward is sometimes when you do something, yeah, you know, you're anticipating it or whatever it be, and then you're like— I was reading his book, so I'm kind of like constantly thinking about him and his book and what he's thinking about, what I'm thinking about. Then I listen to other people's podcasts, I'm like, well, that wasn't that impressive. That's what I do. I'm like I must have built it in my head that I was— I have to— it has to be some perfect thing. I'm like, everyone's just being a version of themselves. And so I think it's a win when you can be yourself. Asking the abs question, awesome, because it is on our brand. But you're also— but you also ask awesome questions on top of that.

Josh: Yeah, I think it's just around like— so there's a, there's a few structural things that I think can be— I can improve on. And that's— it's even the end. I don't think there's many people that finish a podcast well. You listen to Tim Ferriss, it's a fumble every time. It's like, ah, thank you, you know, yeah. But like, I'm the same. I think it is a, it's a hard thing for anyone to nail.

Tommy: Timing finishes it. Well, we probably can't go any longer. Uh, thanks for joining us.

Josh: But then it's working out what do you say. And so having those clear dot points Or they clear out as well. But yeah, I just think it was just, it was interesting where I'm like, oh, you know what, this is, there's the riding the wave, which is there's certain podcasts where when you do them, you only ever get good feedback. So for instance, Hamish Blake is one of them. Anytime I've ever spoken to Hamish, Hamish, I always get people writing to me. Do I think that I do a better job? No, I actually— and I think it's the same thing with Seth. I think that there's been times where we've done really great conversations with people, but you don't hear a word. And so, yeah, I find it— these bigger conversations are a great one to dissect a little bit because they're the high pressure. So, you can look at the high pressure thing. And I think it plays a little bit into being a good MC. I don't necessarily think I'm a good master of ceremonies or whatever. And I'd like to get better at that.

Tommy: Would you? I mean, is that true based on—

Josh: I don't want to do it, but I want to get better at it. No, so this is the thing, right? Like you need to, you want to be a—

Tommy: I want to be a fisherman, but I don't want to cast my line. Cast my line into the water. You can't, you can't be a good master of ceremonies without doing master of ceremonies.

Josh: No, no, no, you can— no, that's not— no, that's not what I'm saying. You can— I cannot like it, but you do it because you know that it's going to give you something else. And so the thing is, by being good at master of ceremonies, that means that you're able to communicate very clearly Um, I get you, right? Yeah, it's, it's like anchor. Like, how do you be a great anchor? And I think that that's— and like, I don't necessarily think— I think that it comes off all right. Like, it comes up— like, I remember MCing a WordPress Melbourne event in, you know, like 2000— and when was it, 2012? Or, you know, yeah, I think it was around then. And all I would do is go up and I'd say, hi, the next person speaking is blah blah, give them a round of applause. Um, yeah, I just think it's an interesting skill where if I think about all of the episodes that we've done, what do we need to do to get better at the specific thing that's required in sort of hosting in that sort of format?

Tommy: Yeah, I mean, have you watched, um, David Letterman? He's the new series on Netflix.

Josh: Yeah, is it a new one?

Tommy: Season 3. Season— yeah, he's got like, um, Lizzo, Kim Kardashian, Dave Chappelle, um, Robert Downey Jr. It's awesome. Majority of them are filmed once COVID hit, and so, you know, there's no audience for the Lizzo one. I don't know if the Chappelle one, um, Robert Downey Jr., there was an audience, but it was like It tells you up front.

Josh: Chappelle Corby, was it?

Tommy: It was Chappelle. Dave Chappelle. Um, but I think, yeah, there's so many things at play. Like, I don't necessarily get around Dave Chappelle. I get around the guests that are on his show. I like to— I kind of— I'm becoming more appreciative of his kind of weird quirkiness or awkwardness that is—

Josh: what about Letterman?

Tommy: David Letterman. Sorry, that's something that is David Letterman. He— it's— people love him though. People idolise him as an interviewer though. I know he's amazing, like, fucking— I'm a loser.

Josh: But I also— I get the— so he, like, he is a specific style that worked in a specific moment, but I think that it doesn't necessarily— I think that the, um, sort of idolization of some of these people is maybe overbaked.

Tommy: Okay, that's what I'm saying is what you're talking about. I don't have anyone in my mind that I appreciate for having front nailed and nailed, like in terms of listening. Like some are clunky, some are like— I don't know how much of a skate— like I think there's tools and tactics to, you know, arm yourself with that will make it feel better on, on your side, on my side. And but then there's the experience of humans. So when you do have someone a bit quirky in your studio that you've never met, like, that's a weird thing if you don't actually know somebody. Like, I don't know if Seth knows who we are. He's just been on our show twice and a million others, and he's written, you know, and his mind's consumed with everything he's doing.

Josh: And so part of it, I guess, is I feel like we are quite good at some form of improvisation or working on the spot on something. Um, and so I just think that there's a— there's another structure which maybe we can develop. It's even as we do more ad reads, I think that's where I notice it too, where you have, uh, you've just got to disseminate some information but you want it to feel natural. I think that that's a real skill.

Tommy: Um, 1,000 hours is real. And— oh, sorry, 10,000 hours.

Josh: Yeah, just, just cut it. 1,000 hours, 10%. Um, we got some emails.

Tommy: It's real. Yeah, yeah, we got some emails. Um, Josh, the way you open that Seth Godin podcast— I'm joking, joking. This is from Vicki London. She's lovely. She said, I wanted to take a minute to tell you all something. The first of April, the US went into lockdown. I was unable to work and life just sucked all around. I think she lives in Florida. One day while scrolling YouTube, I found these funny talking Australians— love the accents— with this funny lady saying real men eat ass. Anyone guess who that is? Who the funny boys are? Funny boys not being haha funny. This made me laugh so hard for the first time in days and led me on a journey that has changed my life. I began listening to your podcast daily and in fact went back in the next month or so and watched episodes 600, like up until 600 to present, plus numerous others that caught my eye. So all the video ones, that's like impressive, 200 and something upwards. That's, that's a lot.

Josh: Thank you, Vicki. That's very impressive. So Vicki's from Florida.

Tommy: Oh no, sorry, sorry, 602 now. 678. Wow, nearly 300 eps.

Josh: It's epic.

Tommy: Yeah, Vicky's from Florida. I'm, I am, I'm not overwhelmed, you know, I'm overwhelmed in a fantastic way with too much telly, one-trick Tony, Hump Day replay. She gets around it all.

Josh: What about Screenplay Sunday?

Tommy: Wait for it, wait for it.

Josh: All right, all right.

Tommy: There is so much awful shit in the US right now, from the election to the wildfires and racial tension. Your gang, quotation marks, has brought me nothing but laughter and pleasure, which I so desperately needed. I smile when the phone dings to notify me of the podcast. Can she help Jess get notifications?

Josh: Definitely.

Tommy: And, and I stop what I'm doing and laugh. Sorry, this is a lot, this is long, but I am hoping you'll share with the gang so that when I have times that I wonder why do we—

Josh: why—

Tommy: when they have times when they wonder why do we do this. Very true, Vicki. You'll hopefully think of this email and you've done— and what you've done for a crazy lady in Lake City, Florida. Um, can't thank you enough for the fun you've brought into my life. And also, I absolutely love Screenplay Sunday.

Josh: I thought she was going to sign off, uh, real, real men need ass. Um, thank you, Vicki. Uh, it's The Daily Talk Show. My name's Josh Janson. That's Tommy Jackett over there. Hope you've had a fantastic Friday. Make sure you subscribe on your favourite podcast app. We're also on YouTube. YouTube as well. Otherwise, we'll see tomorrow. Have a good one. Thank you, Sam C, Josh. See you guys.