Tongues, Lying & The Psychologist

Tommy: The Daily Talk Show.

Josh: It's The Daily Talk Show, episode 689.

Tommy: What's happening, guys? What's going on? Happy Monday. Morning, Shannon.

Josh: Thank you, Tommy. I don't know if people who are pre— who haven't listened to the pre-show rambling would understand the morning Shannon.

Tommy: They don't need to, Josh. They don't need to, mate.

Josh: You have to join us in the live chat. We do it—

Tommy: If it's to win, get in.

Josh: Yeah, youtube.com/thedailytalkshow, and you can turn on the notification bell so when we go live, you get a push notification.

George: There you go.

Josh: We've got an exciting announcement.

Tommy: Another one? We can't have— Are you just the announcements guy? Yesterday you're the chores guy.

Josh: So, the chores are going well, but I just, I think we did a few things up in the air, a few announcements.

Mason: Just quickly, sorry, just quickly on the chores thing. I am getting a little bit sick and tired of the Instagram stories.

Tommy: Well, just unfollow him. It's only— it's his account. It's not the Daily Talk Show.

Josh: If you don't like the engagement— the—

Mason: but that's me. I, I like you. Imagine people that—

Tommy: it's a good point. It's a good point. Your feed has been pretty loose in the past, Josh. Like, a long time ago, it was pretty loose. I've always been the, the follower.

Josh: I've always— So do you think that I've gotten too loose again? Am I loose now?

Tommy: No, it's quite curated though. Like it was loose screenshots and fucking remember all the shit you used to post.

Josh: Yeah. Someone texted Bree and said that, like one of her friends and said that we have become hipster, which I totally agree.

Tommy: That you and Bree have?

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: I mean, why would they say that?

Mason: Belinda said that as well. When you were walking home the other night with, what are we, drinks or whatever in the box.

Josh: Oh, that's right.

Tommy: Oh yeah. You know what it is? I think it's just a, you know, late 20s couple that doesn't have kids. They're just living a good life. And now it's like people wanna throw shade. It's like you have time to walk to a bottle-o and take some selfies on the way home.

Josh: It could have been the Fitzroy element maybe.

Tommy: Yeah, but that's just your place of residence, to be honest.

Josh: What's going on in the comments? Is that Georgie boy? Am I meant to know what that means?

Mason: No, because Shannon said morning GB, and then she said, haha, know what that means, Grace. You know what that means, Grace.

Tommy: Look, it's a bit in. If you don't know, you've got to go to YouTube.

Josh: There is a lot happening. So, Sevs, I know you're trying to delay this announcement because it involves work from your end. So let's— we'll talk about the Instagram storey stuff a little bit longer.

Mason: Okay.

Josh: It's had huge, huge retention rates. In regards to people viewing?

Mason: How many views per story?

Josh: I don't like to give out my numbers, but let's just say over 600.

Mason: Over 600?

Josh: Over 600, yeah.

Mason: Wow, that's impressive.

Josh: Yeah, it's— but I think there's a lot more to it.

Mason: It's not near TJ's 800, but—

Josh: Well, that was a bug.

Tommy: Yeah, it could have been a glitch. I mean, but hang on, wait, we'll wait till tomorrow because it might be a glitch on your content. But you know what, actually— Or Seb says. Sebs is the oracle telling us to rein back content, specific ideas.

Josh: The bit that Sebs isn't considering is hate following. I reckon I've got 90% of my followers are hate followers. Just people who are fucking, can you believe this guy? He doesn't like, he thinks he is some top dog because he's making dinner. It's disgusting.

Tommy: You've done a lot of favours for people. So it is like, I feel like it's when people come into our Friday night drinks and there's, you know, 50 people on there, they're not leaving. They want to leave at some point, but they're not because they're like, fuck, if I leave, I'm going to be seen to be the person that left. You've done too many favors. No one's going to unfollow you. I mean, don't get that fuck. Have you been pushed the ad where it's like some girl saying that she's got one of those plugins that tell you who's following, who's unfollowing? Very good.

Josh: Getting a lot of soft porn targeted on our daily talk show Instagram.

Tommy: I don't know what you mean, dude.

Josh: So a lot of—

Mason: in Explore.

Josh: No, not in Explore. It's actually in the Insta stories, like when you flick through.

Mason: Oh no.

Josh: I'm getting a lot of people in underwear and stuff. I don't know.

Tommy: I sometimes, if anything, remember when I was saying that I was being pushed stuff and you guys weren't getting it. So what are you looking at?

Josh: But I'm not. I think it's actually, I think it's coming from one of you guys because we've done something.

Tommy: No, but we worked it out. We worked it out that it's not. My device is not— like, it's my device is the, uh, isn't that what dictates? Like, what you see on your device and my device is different even in the same account.

Josh: Can you clap for me, TJ? I want to see if you're in— which, which sync is it? What's the— is it easy? Is audio or video out of sync, guys? We're trying to work it out and then I can adjust. Clap one more time for me, TJ.

Tommy: All right, I'm gonna clap.

Josh: It's like, it's hard to tell.

Mason: These are the ads I'm being pushed.

George: Slightly first.

Josh: Okay, all right, I'll give him a little bit more of an audio delay.

Mason: I'm being pushed a bunch of ads on, on a, like a, what is it, a winch for like 4x4s? Yeah. Oh yeah, that's on the Daily Talk Show. Yeah, exactly.

Tommy: Shit, yeah, I've been looking up some winches, boys. No, um, hey, just, uh, on sort of, you know, I think it's like something to do with the timing. Like if you're just seeing, like, there's a lot more people posting shit posting photos, getting into the old photos, sharing, trying to like sponsor throwbacks, sponsoring to get people to start following new pages. I'm surprised people are even still spending money on that shit, to be honest. But I'm getting like some, you know, heaps of life coaches and stuff. But I got a text this morning and it was from DHL Info and it says your package has been returned to the sender. You must pay an additional $4.65 for your return of your package. I was thinking, oh shit, hang Hang on, we've got a package on the way. Is that me? Is that me?

Josh: Yeah, that's me from FedEx.

Tommy: And then, yeah, then I realised it was FedEx, but it's a complete scam, dude. But man, they've done it well. And Amy got a text over the weekend from the ATO, or what seemed like the ATO, saying you're eligible for the once-off $750 payment. And she signs it, like goes into the link, goes to it and it is just— it's myGov. Like, it is identical. It's got even the dropdown to show like different banks that you could be with. There is some seriously good scams going at the moment. Be careful. I just got another— I got one on Skype. If I click a link on Skype, like someone sends me a link, is there anything that can happen, JJ? Like if it's just some random link?

Josh: Yeah, yeah, definitely.

Tommy: Like, could it do something to my computer even if I just click it? Because I like to think that, like, my phone, if I click it on my phone, it's not going to sort of, you know, it's not like a computer. Or is that wrong?

Josh: You just want to avoid all that stuff because the other thing too is sometimes they're just testing to see if there's a, there's a person actually opening. So if you open it, they're like, okay, we've got this active person on Skype. Yeah. And then you could potentially be targeted again.

Tommy: The weird thing is though, this is where it's like they play on coincidences, like the DHL thing. If you had a package through DHL that was coming, you'd be like, oh shit, I must have to pay.

Josh: Well, there's also different things, like on Sunday we got an AusPost, like that never happens. On Sunday, AusPost did a big delivery at our building.

Mason: Grace had the exact same thing.

Tommy: Saturday here we got a delivery from—

Josh: So why is that happening?

Tommy: Maybe they're backlogged. Maybe it's snail mail's picking up again. But yeah, ridiculous. Oh yeah, so here's the coincidence to the Skype person who sent me the link. Obviously their account I think has been hacked, but it's the guy who I said on yesterday's episode had coronavirus. And so I'm thinking, fuck, I've mentioned him on the show. I never said his name, I just said his initials. And then I get a Skype message.

Josh: So this is your mate who's a contact of you on Skype, who's been compromised, and then they've, they've sent me a link to something.

Tommy: I haven't clicked that one though. I've clicked the other ones on my phone, and I paid for the $4.65, so I hope I get my package.

Josh: I think that will happen a lot. But, um, no, it's good. I mean, it is good with like, uh, Instagram and stuff, like they're tracking. It's like when I tried to get, um, Danny Owl's IP address and I got blocked. So, you know, they are working on getting that stuff. Um, and so, so the Insta stories, to be clear, I'm going to continue to go hard.

Tommy: What's your account? Follow you or don't.

Josh: Exactly. And so the thing is that I don't even give a fuck anymore. Like, I used to, when I was like going back a week, uh, I used to look at who was looking, like who was falling off, and then I created these great narratives around— I'm just not entering into any of it anymore. Like, I've had too many ways.

Tommy: You've been doing that since I've met you. I'm always amazed. You're like, yeah, I saw you. You even called me once because I didn't see you.

Josh: George, why doesn't your mum follow me on Instagram though? I just wanted to know that. That was from last week.

George: Doesn't she? Which one, like her personal account or the Book Room?

Josh: No, no, personal.

George: Both.

Mason: I will say you guys have two great DPs, two new great DPs.

George: Oh, thank you.

Josh: I mean, the problem with my display picture is um, that I was used to the black and white one, which created a bit of a differentiation between the daily talk show and my personal. And so this morning when I was posting a throwback, I posted it first on my personal one. And so I need to, like, I need to get into a new sort of muscle memory around which account I'm in.

Tommy: Ah, yeah, yeah, no, I get it. Georgia does look great. And, uh, yeah, Georgia's like a model. You went with the one from yesterday's app, Josh, which was good.

Josh: Well, I also got Bri to take a photo of me and I wanted it to have the aesthetic of like a Star Now sort of look.

George: That's what I thought. The photo of you at the end. I was gonna comment saying, is this your Star Now picture?

Josh: So, the way that you do a Star Now photo is you need to be lower than the photographer. You need to bring your sort of your body, your head forward. And so you're creating a bit of depth and you just sort of, yeah, it works quite well.

Mason: Is that to get— is that where you go?

Josh: Yeah, you want to, yeah, you're sort of like defining that neck a little bit.

Mason: And it's just the other thing too is you don't want to go too far, like, nah.

Josh: Well, Jules Lund taught me that you bring your tongue to the roof of your mouth and it just defines you. Like, so without, hang on, let's see. So this is just normal. This is just me just being my usual ugly self. And then watch, I'm a model.

Tommy: I don't know how much it does. It doesn't do much.

Josh: Can you do it, TJ? I want to see what—

Tommy: No tongue.

Josh: Normal ugly self.

Tommy: Tongue.

Josh: Model. You see?

Tommy: Yeah, you can see slight movement.

Josh: I mean, George, you're not going to see shit. Yours is going to go from model to ice addict with your Just give it a go though.

George: No tongue.

Tommy: I can't do it. Absolutely not.

George: I got a small tongue.

Tommy: You got a small tongue? Is that like a fact?

George: How do you know that? Short tongue syndrome.

Tommy: Have you actually— no, hang on, hang on.

Mason: Oh wow, that is tiny.

Tommy: Go to the side, go to the side. Turn side profile. He's sung—

Josh: his tongue is coming out.

Tommy: That's so bizarre. 2 centimetres out of his mouth.

Josh: It looks like a little snail.

George: Yeah.

Tommy: You've got the smallest tongue.

Josh: TJ's got a real fat tongue.

Tommy: It's 'cause I put it together, like I was tensing it together.

Josh: I heard something. What was that? It was a news report of a kid that's so, swallowed their tongue. What's the deal with swallowing your tongue?

Tommy: I don't know, you'd have to have a long tongue, George.

George: That's why they put you in recovery position on the side.

Josh: That's what Bree does after Friday night drinks. She always puts me in recovery position I go to bed.

Tommy: So yeah, so it'd be if you were unconscious and then your tongue blocked your airway. Like, it'd be— it seems weird when you're sort of conscious because it's a muscle that you just sort of stick it down. You're not really— you must be passed out. Something must have gone pear-shaped to swallow your tongue.

Josh: Yeah, well, I just thought, was it like— what does that actually mean? Does it mean that it sort of flips?

Tommy: It must. Yeah, it's just blocking the airway. It can't actually—

Mason: yeah, you're not—

Josh: you're not—

Mason: yeah, so you're not swallowing. It's just like when you're unconscious or whatever, it can block your airway. But you don't actually— yeah, you're not choking on— I guess you sort of are.

Josh: I guess you are. Yeah.

George: Yeah.

Josh: Where does the tongue actually start?

Tommy: Oh God, I have no idea. I did see someone, um, so underneath your tongue you've got the, the bit that sort of connects it. Um, I was at a party the other month last month and someone put their tongue, they were like, oh, I've got this thing where I've got too much skin. So, it's attached from like the tip of the tongue to the bottom of my mouth.

Mason: Oh, wow.

Tommy: And I can't like, I can't put my tongue back. It was, and I hadn't thought about it. I was like, it was just born like that, like too much skin connected. And so, couldn't pull their tongue back or stick it out that far like you, George. Maybe you have the same thing. Can you put your tongue up to your top of your mouth? No, he's all right.

Josh: I think your tongue's actually fine. It's just we're not used to seeing it, really. Sebs, can we sort of see your tongue?

Mason: Do you want side?

Tommy: Show me how you work it.

Josh: Oh my God.

Tommy: Oh Jesus. Holy shit.

George: Can you touch your nose? You'd be able to touch your nose.

Josh: This is huge.

Tommy: Can you touch your nose?

Josh: Oh, this is— Can you do that Jim Carrey like mouth out? Can you do that one more time? 3, 2, 1, go. Oh my God, that's incredible.

George: Yeah.

Josh: Jesus.

Mason: George, can you do a horse tongue? Just try to touch your chin.

Tommy: No, you can't, he's little. He's literally just got the lip of his mouth.

Josh: So the big announcement is in regards to VIP Gromps. We've done a bad job in regards to communicating with them. And so starting today, We are moving to WhatsApp.

Mason: It's happening. Yeah, look, the SMS thing didn't work that well.

Josh: Well, you gave us a huge bill because you messaged Grace nonstop using that.

Mason: Yeah.

Josh: Is that why we don't get dividends or anything from that investment?

Mason: Write it off as a tax— It was slightly— Yeah, the SMS company was also that one that was annoying with its customer service, and I nearly got someone fired. So we're moving away from that. And, um, yeah, WhatsApp's going to be the, um, the platform to message on. And a lot of people have it anyway, so— but if you don't, download it. Um, and we'll— you've signed up for the VIP Gronks, so we'll, um, we'll add you to the list and send you a message.

Josh: It's gonna be big. Like, we're completely— like, we're putting a lot of effort into making it right. It's gonna be great. There's gonna be back and forth talking. There's gonna be WhatsApp blasts broadcast like, hey guys, we're live right now, or hey, we're doing this limited run merch. If you buy it in the next hour, you get something limited edition, free stickers and stuff.

George: It's pretty cool.

Tommy: If you message right now, George will send a pic of his tongue.

Josh: Yeah, yeah, we could definitely be like, send a photo of your tongue. And you get a mug sent to you. That could be fun. No, do we not like that?

Mason: No, I mean, it's verging on— that's verging on like, send us a photo of your feet.

Tommy: Yeah, yeah.

Josh: And that's not okay.

Mason: Well, no, I mean, I don't want to be on a WhatsApp that's just receiving tongues.

Tommy: Well, maybe, maybe we can start an OnlyFans and get people to send us their feet pics and then put them on OnlyFans and then start really making some cash, you know.

George: What about like a collage?

Mason: Yes, no, that's not to tongue pics.

Josh: Huh, you sure? Yeah, yeah, I've only got my wires crossed again.

Mason: Oh no, maybe—

George: I don't know.

Josh: Anyway, so that's gross.

Tommy: Okay, all right, that's a good announcement.

Josh: Yeah, I think that'll be fun. And so, um, but yeah, WhatsApp is great because I mean, it's—

Mason: we're not going to have The problem with SMS is you got like international numbers and stuff and it's annoying to send through photos. But now like, you know, you're able to easily attach like audio or video or photos. So if we're doing it, it's great. If you, if, if like Friday night drinks and you want to send us through a photo, you can just WhatsApp it to us and it's easy.

Josh: But be tasteful.

Tommy: And then we can, we can tell people we're going live on, uh, the Zoom call for Friday night drinks an hour before. And then Paulina could be like, guys, I don't have the link.

Josh: And so that was the whole spam. The other thing too that we're going to implement is a better email system. So what will happen is we'll give you an email address. So it's probably going to be something like vip@thedailytalkshow.com. We haven't set it up yet, but you'll be able to whitelist that email address so it doesn't go into your promotions. In saying that, we'll also be pushing everything to WhatsApp. It's good.

Mason: So you're not going to miss out on anything.

Josh: Exactly, it's going to be huge. The merch stuff I'm excited about, short-run merch that you can buy will be good. Um, I watched that, uh, Cassie, uh, Cocaine Casey or whatever. Cassie, anyone else watch that?

Tommy: Cocaine Cassie? No, it was on 60 Minutes. Yeah, she's, she's the Aussie who got done for smuggling coke in, in, uh, Colombia. Oh no, South America. And, um She, she just needs some cash, guys. Need some cash.

Josh: Pretty annoying, isn't it?

Tommy: Really annoying.

Mason: So what's she up to now? Where is she?

Josh: Well, so she, she was doing, she was doing a sentence. I don't know how long it was for, but after 3 or 6 years, so she was meant to do 6 years. After 2 years, 11 months, 21 days, she was let out based on this coronavirus stuff.

Tommy: Yeah, it's pretty amazing. There's a guy who, oh, 6ix9ine. We've talked about him on the show before, the rapper. He's serving the rest of his sentence in home detention. For the— it's probably only like 3 or 4 more months.

Mason: Just think, it's magic.

Tommy: Because of the coronavirus. Yeah, his lawyers said, hey, Young Hernandez has asthma and it's, you know, it's compromising him being in jail, potentially getting coronavirus. So now he's at home.

Josh: Have— I mean, the thing with this, um, this Cassie person was they accused her of lying a lot. She's a big liar. Have you guys ever experienced someone that is actually like an A-grade, completely nuts liar?

Tommy: Uh, only— I mean, if you've still got one in your life and you're above the age of 18, just prioritise your friends a bit more.

Josh: Did you ever lie, TJ? Were you a liar growing up?

Tommy: Oh, I mean, of course, of course I lied at points. It depends. It's like, what do they say, that lying when you're young is a sign of intelligence? But I'm not saying that's for me, but I like— I definitely— don't you— have you not heard that?

Josh: It sounds like something a liar would say though.

Tommy: No, no. Children, children lying sign of intelligence.

Mason: I get it, it does make sense.

Josh: Kicking dogs as a kid also makes you a psychopath.

Mason: It makes sense if you're a toddler or like you're quite young because you've got the emotions to be able to think about stuff and preempt things happening. So you—

Tommy: yeah, exactly. And so like, I'm— I think about it for having Bodhi and seeing what— how— what he does, and it's like, it's smart if you can work out. That's why I was like super impressed when he Got into our room, locked the door, got Netflix going, but he understood that if he locked the door, I couldn't get in to stop him watching Netflix. And I was like, fucking hats off to you, kid. That's good. 3. You know, but no, I had a kid that his name is Michael. He's no longer with us, but he lived across the road from me and he was an absolute compulsive liar. Like so bad, dude. Just talks so much.

Josh: Shannon says pathological liar. Yeah, what sort of stuff would he just say?

Tommy: It was just about everything, about, oh, mum's got this, or like, just, just an app. Like, it was— he was known as the liar. There wasn't one thing, it was always just lying. But like, as, as I'm older, he was someone who was from a pretty hard upbringing, lived in commission flats. His mum had zero dollars and he had no money and horrible dental hygiene. Like, I just feel like looking back, I'm like, he got a pretty raw end of the deal. And I wonder if that lying came from a place of pain and understanding of his situation, like subconsciously, not even like, I, you know, I'm, I'm, I'm, uh, I've got no money or like we're, we're in poverty, but just like it's a protective mechanism. Based on trying to escape using lying. That's right.

Josh: Like, yeah, I even remember having, um, like, we had a kid that lied so much and was so naughty that the, um, the teacher actually like called us all in to talk about the kid and being like, hey, he's got it really rough at home. Like, yeah, yeah, this is why he behaves this way. Like, let's all work as a class together, which is a pretty That's pretty crazy.

Mason: Um, Grace in the live chat says, uh, a friend from year 8 was the biggest liar. We caught her out on so many times, but she still denied it.

Tommy: Yeah, that's— I mean, that's— I think there is a point, right? It has to stop at some point. Like, that's what I'm saying. If you get past 18, when you actually are in— you're working, you know, shit starts to get a bit more real. So what is lying about where you've been, being out Like as a kid, you know, like, oh, where were you? Oh, I was down the drains.

Josh: Yeah. And so that's like a different one. That's like a protective mechanism so you don't get in trouble from your parents.

Tommy: That's all I did. I was only ever just probably trying to divert.

Josh: Someone pretending like they had a past career or you hear those storeys of the people who've completely made up their CV.

Mason: Speaking of making up your CV, my—

Josh: What are you about to tell us?

Mason: My— Mate, run the banner.

Josh: Have a seat.

Mason: Yeah, my assistant principal at high school lied on his CV and said he had a master's. And so, yeah, yeah, yeah. And so, he, I don't know, he didn't have a master's.

Tommy: And it turned out he worked at Masters. Bunnings Alternative.

Mason: Yeah. Well, so anyway, so everyone found out about it and they obviously sacked him and then it got plastered all around school that he didn't have a master's. And so, people were like, tearing sheets down, trying to like hide it all up. It was a big cover-up. Like, I don't even know if it's in the news.

Tommy: I thought about, I thought about lying yesterday. I thought about what I would have lied if a police pulled me over when I was driving and, and I was going to my parents' place, um, and had to get some stuff. That was a lie, didn't have to get anything, wanted to just go over there anyway. Um, here we go, exclusive. But I was like, what if the cops pulled me over? I don't think I'd have a problem in saying I'm just going to drop some stuff off to my parents who are, you know, in their 70s. Like, is that bad? Like, at this level?

Josh: I don't even know what the rules are. Like, when I've been going and taking photos, am I like, am I better off having a fight about that I'm media, like I had with Bree the other week?

Mason: I'm media.

Josh: Or am I better off pretending like I'm going for a walk?

Tommy: Yeah, definitely the walk.

Josh: You reckon?

Mason: Yeah, yeah.

Tommy: I mean, the honest, honest— just say I'm a, you know, I'm a creative. I'm sort of jumping around the— I'm jumping up. What do you— what's the phrase? I'm jumping up. I'm here. I'm jumping around the walls or jumping, you know, just like I'm parkour.

Mason: No, no, I need to get out.

Tommy: And yeah, like itching to get out. I need to take— I need to create.

Josh: Well, I'd already created the storey where I was going to be like, mate, I was in lockdown before any of you, and now I want my out. Like, I had like my whole— like, I was just gonna be disgusted.

Tommy: All right, Josh, what's the, what's the difference in, say, you're a great storyteller to your own mind, the narrative you spin on something that you don't know is factual, but you can just, you know, we all do it, right? You see something, you make a connection, it's like you make up the story. Essentially, if that is incorrect, you've lied to yourself. Well, that's so—

Josh: it's the, it's the all-for-content thing. Services or like when I get off like a show, 'cause I go hard at Seb's, he'll normally say, "That's not exactly how, I didn't say those exact words." Or for instance, when I texted, like I've got to be careful about my over-exaggeration. So, when Trump said over the weekend, he said like the world was going to end.

Tommy: Did he?

Josh: Could have ended if he wasn't president. And so, I took it out of context.

Tommy: I mean, we don't know if that's true or not. Could be true.

Josh: It's true.

Tommy: Could not be true.

Josh: But the thing is that like, Sevs loved it, and then I started to panic. I'm like, have I overexaggerated? Sevs, was the storey that I told as good as the reality of watching it?

Mason: Absolutely, yeah. It was spot on. That was a great—

George: Okay.

Mason: I was so pumped when you said that.

Josh: And so I had to go find it and it lived up to the expectation. Well, that's good, 'cause I could have— There's been a few times where I've probably been hyperbolic on something And then someone watches it and goes, well, that's not really what happened, was it?

Tommy: Bodhi, this is a secondhand storey from Amy. I kind of am glad that I wasn't there to experience this, but Amy picked up Bodhi from daycare the other day. And there's another mother that was there. And Bodhi said to this woman who is kind of probably tipping the higher end of the scales, he said to her straight out, 'Why are you big?' And Amy just said— she fucking was like, 'Oh no.' And this— and the sweet woman said, 'Because I like cakes and sweets.' And then Amy jumped in and said, 'No, that's because we're adults, Bodhi.' But the woman owned it. But Bodhi had just come straight out.

Mason: Oh, that's great. Amy's reply is great.

Josh: Well, yeah, because then Bodhi said, no, I mean, why is she so fat? No, I think, I think it's a nightmare. I mean, kids, it's very hard to— I mean, so then what's the conversation afterwards about it?

Tommy: Nothing. I mean, the lady has two kids and, you know, probably gets it that there's no filter. It's just spitting truth. It's just saying what it is, spade for a spade.

Josh: So, in the comments, Lara says, "Subconsciously, perhaps low level of self-esteem could lead to people to lie about things. I had a friend that lied a lot. I think that's why she did it unknowingly." Gray says, "Yeah, Lara, people want others to like them/accept them, so lie about things." I mean, that's the whole catfish thing, right? Because the catfish thing, you think like, okay, you are spinning this story, but then eventually, like, it's all going to come out that you're not the person that you're pretending to be. But it's the thing at the time of thinking, I've got this person that I like or that I could potentially— I don't have the self-confidence to think that they would want to talk to me, talking to you.

Tommy: Yeah, I mean, and then the pain of living with a lie. Like, I think if you can't think that these people don't have a conscience, like the guy I was talking about, Michael, he took his own life probably 3 years ago. The guy must have been in so much pain, like living with— not saying just that, there was definitely some mental ill health happening, but living with the knowledge that everything you're saying is actually a lie. Oh, there was a fucking con artist that I worked with actually. His name was Ken. Fuck Ken, what a piece of shit. He managed the gym. He managed the gym that I was working at., and I knew the owner. The owner gave me the job. He was the sweetest man ever. And, um, and then he employed this guy, Ken, who started managing it, but he just talked a big game. And then I went over to his house because he got this car, and I was like, fuck it, I love this. It was like a Datsun, they turbocharged it, old school. I went to his house and I walked in and I saw shit from the gym there. I was like, there's those cushions that were out the back. There's that painting that was like in the storeroom. And I didn't really put two and two together. I just like, oh, that's from the gym. He's the manager. Maybe he's just like, yeah, whatever. Anyway, it turned out he had been absolutely fleecing the shit out of this. He'd been telling members who needed to renew their membership, sorry, FBOSS is broken. Could you go down and get cash? He bought a motorbike. And he was living this complete lie. Here's the fucked up bit. We found out that he was in Shepparton of all places. This was before I moved there. He was going for another job and put the gym as a referral. And this company called the gym and said, yeah, can you just tell us about Ken? He's like, sorry, Ken? Where's Ken? Where are you? Oh my God, he was just— he was a compulsive liar. Like, as an adult, he was an absolute piece of shit, and he was a con artist. Absolute con artist. So I guess that's the adult version of a big fat liar.

Josh: I mean, um, giving job references— has anyone had to give a referral to someone?

George: Oh, I did the other day, actually. Really? Did you? Kind of, yeah. Yeah, I had to, um be a reference for this girl Sian, who I used to work with. And I was so nervous on the phone. Like, the guy actually asked—

Josh: You weren't going for the job, you know that.

George: Yeah, I know. She was going for the job, and I was just like— He was asking me all these questions, and I was like, yeah, she's great. She's a great worker. And then he actually asked me, he said, you guys aren't, uh, you're not dating or anything, are you? I'm like, no, I haven't seen her for like a year. Oh, how much did she pay me for this? I was like, Jesus.

Josh: What?

Tommy: I was just like, every answer I gave. You should have said, did your mum cheat on your dad?

Josh: I was like, mate, she's great.

George: She's a great worker. That's it. Like, what else do you want me to say? It was like a marketing director for a startup, a tech startup or something.

Mason: And, um, just a bit loose. Just haven't, haven't got their HR dialled in.

Josh: Yeah.

George: And yeah, so anyway, I think she got the job. Haven't spoken to her since.

Tommy: I tell you, Josh, uh, we've used both have, uh, we've used the same person on our, on our job applications. Jules Lund, always a great one. You know he's going to come through with a good show, charismatic, and talk a lot of shit.

Josh: Yeah, he did a good pump up.

Tommy: Yeah, you got a job out of it, or at least—

Josh: yeah, I didn't, but yeah, he gave a good little pump up.

Tommy: Yeah, I mean, how much— Josh Janson doesn't get any better than that.

Josh: I mean It is a weird— Yeah, I mean, referrals or maybe job interviews in general are dumb. I mean, George, when was the last time you had a job interview?

George: I actually don't think I've ever— Oh no, I've had one. Yeah, I've had one job interview. Didn't get it. But the first job interview—

Josh: Do you think you went too bad?

George: No, no, no, I don't think so. Yeah, the first job interview I ever had was when I was, uh, probably 13, and it was for a bakery. And the guy, the boss at the bakery, we were standing out in the car park, he was wearing full paintball gear because he'd just come from paintball, smoking a ciggy, and he just said, when can you start, mate? I was like, oh, I mean, when I'm 14 after school. I was like, yeah, yeah, right, come 'Come in whenever then.' That was pretty much it. Haven't had one since, apart from the one I didn't get.

Josh: That is so good.

Tommy: So, how have you got your jobs though? Because you've had— you've got a job at the moment?

Josh: Yeah.

George: How did I get that one? That one— I applied for it and then they said, 'Nah, you don't want this job. It's not for you.' Oh, really? 'We'll call you back when there's something.' 'We'll call you back when there's something.' What was the job that you were going for? I can't even remember. It was like I was just moving down to Melbourne and, um, and I was just applying for shit. And, um, is that why you reached out to Full Stack Films?

Josh: Yeah, just fucking applying for absolutely anything. Just dog balls, scraping the barrel.

George: Yeah, I don't know, it's just some like production role in like some agency, and they said, nah, you don't want this, mate. Um, 'But when there's some editing stuff, we'll call you.' And then that's when—

Josh: A nice thing to happen, right? To be said, 'Hey, you're not right for this role, but we like you so much.' Yeah, exactly.

George: And then that's how they called me back when the other editor got hit by a car. Oh, that's right.

Tommy: Yeah. And where were you that night, George?

Josh: Driving.

George: Yeah. You know what? It was actually my birthday and I was at the Melbourne Cup and I was— yeah, I couldn't answer the phone because I was too busy.

Josh: You got a real good storey there. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Tommy: But he took his car to the Melbourne Cup, so we're thinking it was him.

George: Yeah.

Josh: I mean, TJ, have you had any job interviews?

Tommy: No. So I had— what am I?

Josh: I've just been playing with your sync, by the way. I know, I've seen milliseconds. I think it's actually better now. Oh, good.

Tommy: So the gym where I worked at, I walked in and handed my resume to the owner and he pretty much gave me the job on the spot, which was nice. But I think it's because I walked in and I was, you know, trying to assume confidence and connected and shook his hand well.

Josh: Is that assume confidence like you did on the O-Week video?

Tommy: Definitely, definitely. It's confidence that is not necessarily behind behind the, you know, facade of—

Josh: Maybe it's the faux enthusiasm, which is like, you know, we're at Monash for O-Week, it's gonna be crazy. Yeah, yeah.

Tommy: Oh yeah, 100%. You need a little bit of that, helps you just sort of shake the nerves, if anything. But there's a line, you don't want to be too confident. But other than that, the radio job, all the other ones have been because I've had to put in some kind of work that shows that I can, that I'm capable for the job. But then, like, it's testing. Yeah, well, but you never know you're getting the job, so you go in and you test with, you know, there was, um, who was there, the old mate from Big Brother, the orange hair, long hair, Michael was there, Marty Smiley was there, Nat Harris, who we've had on the show. And we're doing a testing where we're just talking about breaks. I think I told the storey of how I shat myself on a on a boat. Always got to give them their— and then they say there's no jobs that will come from this necessarily, but you are the people that we're looking at. There's no jobs that are coming from this, but you are the people who we're looking at if jobs do come up. And then you get an email saying, are you keen on this? But then you've got to go and do more testing and test, like, did the testing with Candy. Keegs actually recorded the testing that Candy and I did. Keegs was on the show recently. So it's, um, yeah, that's kind of bizarre. But, um, yeah, it's the Matt Mullenweg, who your mate Josh from, uh, from Auckland, from WordPress. He, um, he doesn't live in Auckland, but you flew over there to interview him. Um, he, he has about 1,200 people that he employs. It's a, what is it, a, um, automatic dispersed dispersed workforce, distributed workforce. It's not remote working because remote implies there's a central location for people to work from and you're just not there. And so he calls it distributed. And he said that he hires people sometimes without even meeting them. He hires them over email, so he sees how they write back to him. He gets them in Slack, right, you know, speaking with them in Slack. So he's testing testing them without even meeting them. That's a fascinating concept. Like, imagine hiring someone—

Josh: Well, if you're gonna chat on Slack the whole time, you might as well make sure they're good at it.

Tommy: Well, yeah, yeah, that's the— it is the hard skill. It's the hole. They're digging the hole right there. How good's the hole? But I mean, the new— like, think about moving forward. I was even saying to you, George, uh, we, we hope that you can be with us for the next 8 years on our 10-year journey.— but like your Georgie Boy hump day replay is the best showreel, is the best like piece of content to send to a future employee because you get to see you, you're funny as shit, you wrote it, you're creative, you know, it's like that is the way around it. I've always gone for like creating a video that speaks directly to the people that are offering the job and trying to just always do something that someone else isn't going to do., and most people won't create it. A lot of people probably create videos now, but it's like, how can you create something? You know, so, but then you can.

Josh: When I was younger, I thought that I was, I feel like to that point, I feel like I remember I applied for the Rove work experience and like Rove did work experience or whatever. And so I made a video and I was so obnoxious as a kid that I thought that the reason why they didn't pick me was because my production value was too high. I was like, I think I better say what year it was. It just seems like it was 2007. I've still got the video. Yeah, I was 17 at the time. But, um, where did you do, um, wait, uh, Sebs, did you do work experience?

Mason: Yeah, I did work experience at an SEO place.

Josh: What's that like?

Tommy: Um, sounds like it's gonna have deeper storeys from it.

Mason: No, it was a great, great place, but it's just focusing on that one thing is pretty like specialized, and it's not really for me. Like, I do enjoy parts of it, but I don't want to be a specialist in it.

Josh: So yeah, I feel like you could be. Yeah, I— there'd be something interesting about going in, learning, and then sort of moving on potentially. Did you have like a careers counselor? What did like the careers counsellor tell you to do when you were finishing school?

Mason: Never went to one.

George: Really?

Tommy: Yeah, I didn't go to one either. Like, do you think they're still around? Careers counsellors still around? No, they're all—

Mason: yeah, yeah, because they get, they get a list of what everyone's doing. And so I never had anything to do with the careers counselor, but when, when I, when I got the scholarship, she came up to me and she was like, she was like congratulating me on everything. Yeah, I was like, I've never—

Tommy: Josh, I think they're, I think they're more for the dungers, mate.

Mason: Like, yeah, do you think?

Tommy: I thought people who were a bit sort of Restless and, you know, not the smartest in the building. Like, since—

Josh: I remember saying, if I want to become a career counsellor, I'll speak to them. Otherwise, I think I'll find another option. Like, which makes sense. It's like you want to go to someone that's sort of an industry person.

Tommy: It defeats the purpose of someone having spent a bunch of time becoming a careers counsellor.

Josh: Oh, I heard.

Tommy: It's like a coach. They coach you.

Josh: Well, this is probably the same pushback as the psych, but I heard Bree tried for the first time having a psychologist on FaceTime.

Tommy: And so, like, a lot of them have moved to telehealth. Telehealth, yeah. How'd she go?

Josh: Yeah, I mean, it was good. I mean, it was weird.

Tommy: Without getting personal.

Josh: Well, because you can start to, you hear bits and pieces.

Tommy: But you set up a microphone with an XLR into the other room.

Josh: I was FaceTiming Sevs at the time.

Mason: I'm like, oh fuck, I'm sure she just needs earphones.

Josh: Yeah, yeah, I feel like she almost wants me to hear it. Yeah, but I just— she's so funny though, like the, um, the psych. Like, I'm sure I think it's fine saying, like, she would really leans into, oh yeah, that person sounds like a real bitch.

Mason: Like, just like, just doubling down.

George: Yeah.

Josh: It's pretty, pretty outrageous. Have you got like, are you going back to the psych? When was the last time you went, TJ?

Tommy: Uh, no, um, that was a couple of weeks ago now.

Josh: She's doing FaceTime.

Tommy: Uh, I think they're doing over the phone. I don't know, I don't want to do it over the phone. I want the full exp— like, I want in-person experience. This is the thing about, you know, this coronavirus thing. Uh, what, what do you think about like are the, like, doctor's appointments. A lot of them could go over the phone, especially when they don't have to touch you. They can talk to you, or, you know, you can just explain your symptoms if you're just getting, you know. So I agree with that, but I think there are some things that are, that are, you know, better in person. Well, I heard psychologist being one of them.

Josh: When I was walking, like, from the bedroom to the office, I just heard a glimpse of— she's like, yeah, yeah, it's lovely, I'm looking out to the beach. Is this fucking site like How much are we paying to hear the psych talk about what she's doing on the weekend? Is this what it is? What it's all about? What's the vibe like with your psych? Like, is it— what's the room like? Do you lay down? Do you sit up?

Tommy: Nah, you don't lie down. You, um, very comfy chair. Uh, he's a big chair. Like, yeah, it was— it's a— it's like a— it's almost like a king-size one-seater that you could have two on. It would be great for a cosy little couple. But it was just me on this big chair and then she sits in her chair. And then out in the living, out in the waiting room, I could hear some music that she had on, which wasn't my choice. I wouldn't ever pick that. It's kind of a bit like slightly, slightly sad, like slightly operatic, like something you'd hear on an AM station. If you just—

Josh: Isn't that how you calm Bodhi down?

Tommy: No, that's the talking because a lot of the AM is talking. Yeah, you're right. But I don't know, the setting of being somewhere to sort of talk about your feelings, I don't know, I'm not down for that music. I don't know, I prefer zero music, to be honest. But she liked it. Anyway, I don't even focus on it. But one of the things last time I went, which just is a really sort of visual of, and it sort of made me a bit sad, but I looked down and I saw a bin. So I was like the first session, it was like 9 AM. Obviously she hadn't emptied the bin since the day before. And I saw, and there was so many tissues. And I was just like, first of all, I was like, oh, sick, yuck. Like, yeah, like sickness, yuck. Then I was like, oh no, they're tissues of tears, dude. It's like, and then I started feeling like sad about it. I was like, man, look at all those, those sad people. Might not have been, someone might've just had hay fever. But I just saw this thing full of tissues. But anyway, so was it the patients crying or was it the therapist crying? No, no, no, the patient. I pay her not to cry, Sam, so I can help.

George: Really? Is that the deal?

Mason: Well, I might— she might have— she might have— they might have had a breakdown at the end of the day. I could have— that would be so common because that would be such a hard job, mate.

Tommy: Yeah, of course it's draining. Being a PT was draining, just like one-on-one doing 10 sessions in a day. You just feel— because you listening to people. I couldn't imagine what it'd be like hearing people's deepest, darkest, you know, secrets and sadnesses.

Josh: I think I would like to be a psych, but I don't know if I would have the capacity to do the whole client.

George: Well, you got—

Tommy: you tick one in the box. Click one of the— tick one of the boxes is being a bit fucked up yourself, isn't that? Yeah, yeah, yeah. But, and you, and you are like Yeah, I mean, there's a lot of learning you have to do, right? But yeah, telling the client pretty much thing.

Josh: That's one reason I'd want more friends. Not for the actual drama between me and them, but I love being the friend. Like if you're having a fight with another friend, I'm happy to bitch.

Mason: Double down on them.

Josh: Yeah, I'm happy just to be like, yeah, you're right. Yeah, like this is bullshit.

Mason: Yeah, they're annoying.

George: Yeah, yeah.

Josh: I can really lean into that.

Mason: It's all their fault.

Josh: That's a lot of my friendships are based on the demise of others. It's a bit like you, George, you know, you throw people under the bus. What were you saying the other day? Oh, yeah.

Mason: What was that Insta comment?

George: No, it's just, that was just a call from, because Bree was disappointed that I said wow on your, on the post. And I said, hey, I'll happily throw my friends under the bus.

Josh: Because to be fair, I—

Mason: Is that a trait?

George: No, it's a joke, guys. Oh, it was gear.

Tommy: It's gear. I get it, George.

Josh: I love that George does gear. I thought that your tongue had just gone out, but it was just your bottom lip.

Tommy: Shannon said that she's working in telehealth and it's very difficult.

Josh: Shannon Wallace?

Tommy: Shannon, yeah, always pros and cons, but I can imagine it will change some things in health going forward from now. Yeah, and then Shannon Tilney says that she wants you, Josh, to go and experience it for yourself, seeing a therapist. Yeah, which you can't for a while, so you've got a great excuse not to go to a one-on-one, like in person.

Josh: Well, do you know who follows me on Instagram? Uh, Justin Bieber's, uh, doc.

Tommy: Hang on, this is the same as, uh, Neil Strauss, Pickup Artist.

Josh: Oh yeah, well, yeah, following for a day.

Tommy: No, so what's the person's name?

George: What are they—

Tommy: what's their name?

Josh: I can't remember his name.

Tommy: Justin Bieber.

George: That's the same guy that, that does like—

Josh: he's the one that wears the blazer a bit. He's not the brown one. He's, he's Daniel Amen.

George: Danyuan?

Josh: Maybe he was the coach. Coach for what? The psych—

Mason: It's like a mental coach.

Josh: Like a psychology— I'll look at— Let's see if he still follows me.

George: Oh, he's following you.

Josh: Blue tick, blue tick. Justin Bieber coach.

George: Buzz?

Mason: Is it Buzz?

Josh: Yeah, Buzz, Buzz, Buzz.

Tommy: Sounds legit.

Mason: Buzz Mindgen. Buzz Mindgen. Brain and behavioural health.

Josh: Let me check. Maybe it's not Buzz. Maybe— Is Buzz bald? No, no, no. Dr. Buzz. Let's have a look. Does he follow me still? Yeah, he follows me.

Tommy: He's not bald.

Josh: No, no, no. Dr. Buzz Mingin, Mental Health Services. Maybe I could get Dr. Buzz.

Tommy: How's he? How's he follow? Like, why does he follow you, do you think?

Josh: So I followed him in the early days when the Bieber doco came out. Like, as soon as I saw it, I was like—

Tommy: YouTube or like his doco from years and years ago?

Josh: No, no, no. This is literally just the YouTube one, like, oh wow, 2 months ago. And so maybe I could—

Tommy: should I just follow him? I'm going to see if Buzz follows us. Let's get him on the show.

Josh: Yeah, because maybe he could give us some, some insights.

Tommy: But, um, well, I mean, I'm sure he's—

Josh: there's a part of me that could get into this whole, uh, this faith thing. I've been getting all these, um, got a book on some like Tibetan shit. Um, hang on, that's something.

Tommy: You mean Buddhism? Buddhism.

Josh: Yeah. No, so I've got, um, uh, the book that I'm listening to at the moment going to bed. It's The Tibetan Yogas of dreams and, uh, yoga's dreams and sleep. So I thought that that was interesting. I just got a, um, actually a book that Matt Mullenweg recommended on Tim Ferriss's podcast all about the afterlife. I know, I just thought like, let's maybe, um, maybe my next rebrand after The Chores could be sort of spiritual, you know. It's a little bit softly spoken, requires action, George. A little bit.

George: I've been getting, um, I was getting the Jehovah's Witness people coming to my door, like, recently. They came twice. They, so they came twice, like, I reckon about a month apart, a couple of months ago. And I was just like talking to them, talking to them. Then didn't see him for about a month. Got a random letter in the, in the mail and it was him. He sent me a, he sent me a flyer in the mail with a handwritten note. Sorry, because of coronavirus, I can't come around, all that stuff. So here's the flyer.

Josh: Maybe we could hire him to be a VIP gronk. Maybe he could be sending out flyers.

Tommy: George, we were getting handwritten stuff in St Kilda. It's big. I mean, they need it. They're putting in their hours. They need to get that pass through to the other side. So they've got to work the street, work the hours.

Josh: And so TJ, on the psych thing, are you happy with your psych? Have you learned anything about like Working out the perfect person.

Tommy: Perfect person, as in?

Josh: The perfect psyche.

Mason: I still do like the psyche.

Josh: I just, I don't know. I remember when I went to Munich, I had a fight with the lady at the hotel, remember? And so there's something about older Germans in their late 50s, women that trigger me. So, I don't want like that sort of vibe.

Tommy: That's definitely some kind of like deep, deep in your DNA from, you know, your Dutch days or something. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Josh: Something. I just said, no, there was something about her.

Tommy: I get it.

Josh: I don't know.

Tommy: I get it. You might have a teacher that you didn't like and it's that kind of person triggers you. But think about the people, these, these people are in a position, it's a lot of effort to become a psychologist. And so if it's, if it's not, if they're not for you, they're not for you. I, I can take— what do I— I have taken a bunch of stuff that this lady has, um, sort of communicated to me, which I— how does she describe—

Josh: she's like, this is a—

Tommy: this is pointing out— she's like, you know, like, um, anxiety can show itself in control, control of your environment, control of your relationship. And that's— I hadn't thought about it like that. So it's like It doesn't matter who the person is, you got to be open. And so you can be open if you're open to anybody. I'm sure there's stuff that they could tell you, or that, you know, from listening and sharing with you that resonates. And so that's—

Josh: so the difference between a book, like, what do you reckon the, the main difference between the book, like reading a book about these things, and then having it sort of said to you?

Tommy: I think it's when you're, when you're in your own head and, and you're trying to make sense of it all, like, I think that's the biggest problem we have is like we're too smart. We're trying to work all this shit out ourselves in our own mind. And so there is a time where all of our lives communicating to somebody, trying to, yeah, communicating your thinking to somebody and then them asking targeted questions. The book, the book's only asking the question that's on the page. They're not having a chance to, you know, go off course or say it in a different way.

Josh: So then do you feel that the psychic gives you things that then now you're implementing day to day, or like you catch yourself?

Tommy: Well, it's like a form of mindfulness when you are aware that you're being controlling in your environment, and then you're like, fuck it, I'm anxious. And that's a realization. So it's like they're just— they can be strategies or they can just be little— they're like, um, like I, I'm thinking about my mom now because I don't really— like she said, don't talk about this stuff. But I was like, maybe I have something around suicide. Like I've had a lot of people in my life commit suicide, you know. Some people have had none. I've had a handful of people, 5 or 6 close people to me I'm like, I hadn't thought about that. Maybe I have a thing about suicide, as in like it's quite like a motive for me because I had a tear in this session talking about something. I was like, where the fuck did that come from, dude? And I was like, then I had a moment to think about it where I was vulnerable enough to cry in front of this person talking about something which I won't say, but I was like, fuck, dude, like that is definitely something that I have not connected the dots to be. It's like you get through it, you know, your friend kills himself, you're like, fuck, it is hard, or whatever. But it's like when you don't look at it like, yeah, maybe there is— there's a scare, there's a worry of people in my life then doing that. So it's like, that makes total sense. But that was another realisation that I had. I had fucking 2 sessions and I had heaps of great stuff that I've since realized. And so that's why it's like, do it, do it.

Josh: So does that then— does that pressure then leave you, do you think, after you have that moment?

Tommy: I think if you know— if you can be— I don't think it's— I don't think it leaves you. It just gives you a— it's like, if you— what's the best way of describing it? When you become aware of something, you can't not then be aware of it. And so it gives you another perspective, or it gives you the chance to be more observational on your state, your natural state. So your natural inclination, or your, you know, being anxious about stuff. And then it's like, it's almost mindfulness. It is a form of mindfulness where you're, you've been equipped with the knowledge about something that you do in your behaviour naturally. Or, you know, a patterning, and then you're like, then you have another opportunity to work on that at a different perspective or a different level, if that makes sense.

Josh: Do you feel that most of your stuff is from when you were younger, or this, or is it—

Tommy: Oh, I think, I think it, I think it all— I think we're forming, yeah, the formative years of your life, you know, up until you're 25, it's when your brain for a male is in its development stage.

Josh: Um, does it change your parenting style, do you think?

Tommy: Changing my parenting style?

Josh: So if you know the impact, do you then worry about the things that the way that you parent will then impact the way Bodhi is?

Tommy: Oh yeah, yeah, Bodhi stopped drinking red wine. I thought, you know, I had to cut him off during the week. No, but no, definitely. I mean, but this is the thing, the lying thing that I said, kid. Like, you think having children make you think about stuff in a different way that you would never bother thinking about when you're not— don't have a kid. It's not right or wrong, but it's just no, no need to think about. It's like the swearing around children. You don't— I haven't given a shit until I had a kid, and then I'm like, I think about it more. It's not that I don't swear around him, but it's like it makes you— gives you another perspective, you know. It's, um, yeah, but yeah, definitely, it's, um, parenting's tough, dude.

Josh: Sebbs, do you feel like— like, I feel like you're pretty, like, you're not— I don't know what the word is— like, pretty level. You're a bit like George in some ways. I mean, like, how do you— like, the, the things, like, like, I guess part of it with the psychology thing is what— why do people go to a psychologist? I feel like for the most part it takes friction to get to a point where it's like, oh, you know what, I'm feeling like I need— like, who goes to a PT unless they want to change something, right? So, Sevs, for someone who seems from the outside pretty neutral or whatever, how do you view psychologists and mental health?

Mason: Um, yeah, I mean, for me, I feel like I, I mean, I think it'd be beneficial and I'd love to try it, but I like, I, I sort of have those realisations or, or, or things like that talking to, I don't know, you or, or the people around me. Like, it's It's usually those conversations where people ask me how I'm going, and then once I've got— once I've said that, it's like I can open up. But sort of like without that initial question asking me how I'm going, then it's like, yeah, I don't, I don't really want to communicate it. But as soon as that gate's open, then I'm pretty happy to communicate how I'm feeling, all things that I'm thinking about. And so I guess getting that feedback from different people once that question's asked is, is sort of like my version of the, the psychologist.

Josh: But is that— yeah, I think the book thing though, is that not like—

Mason: is, um, nah, because I, it's— I think it goes what— it goes back to what TJ was saying around like the personalization of it. Like, it—

George: they're—

Mason: those questions are going to be more targeted. And I, I don't, I don't get as much out of books as I do having conversations with people around me. Like, the— I'll just say I had something about Yeah, there's something about being in person that I don't know whether it's like, yeah, you're more— you're probably able to question yourself a little bit more in the moment or, or be a little bit more truthful because you've got someone there who's, you know, waiting for an answer, or they've put time into asking the question for you, so you need to, you know, I don't know, be truthful or actually explore it a little bit more.

Tommy: Yeah, I reckon I had more penny drop moments than I've had reading books in the last 5 years. I've read probably one book. So no, but I like to be honest, I have just even just reading Harry Potter other than, other than the meditation content I've been consuming. But I still feel like these are, these are the things I, you know, have light bulb moments listening to meditation content still isn't like embodied. It's not personal. It might be just like, oh, that makes so much sense, blah, blah, blah. Which is quite easy to get from a book. You're like, yeah, I'm really resonating with this. But it— how often are they challenging you? Are they specific to you? And, um, and being in a safe space where somebody is able to be on your side, but also— and, and also, so this, the— without specifics on what she said, but it was like I felt this moment in this session where she was very much understanding who I am or how I operate and the, the challenge that I was up against. And it was just the acknowledgement of that that made me feel like comforted or made me acknowledge the situation even more so, which I don't get from a book because there's not that person on the other end saying, yeah, so I'm— what I'm hearing is—

Josh: so is it reassurance then? Do you think that the psyche gives you reassurance?

Tommy: That, that specific point was a level of reassurance. But you only connect the reassurance when you understand that it's like when you observe that she's identified and she's been listening and has understood where I'm coming from, how I am, how I feel like I am, and how I think. And she's identified these things. And so it was a moment where it was, it was nice. And so that's just one of the bits. It's not the whole session in itself. It's just a moment where you feel understood, which it's not that I don't have people around me understanding, but I think to your point, Sev, the reason I bring this up is you speak to Josh about your thing. Josh has got his things. He understands you, but it's also the relationship you guys have is a work relationship that's formed into a friend. Like it's all of that history, right? It's not a non-biased, non, you know, Josh understands you a lot. In certain, in, in specific circumstances. It's not a— I don't want to say not judgment-free. I'm not saying you're judging Josh.

Josh: I feel like that's part of the, like, that's the— I think as being a friend, being able to switch perspectives potentially and being like, okay, it's almost like in some ways a choose your own adventure, which is like, this is, this is my perspective from this thing. Or even a question, like if you ask a question that is coming from a place of your own bias or, hey, I'm asking you this question because I think that you should do this, but recognise that I'm only thinking that you should do this because that's how I've done something.

Tommy: I mean, friendship, friendships serve, and what you're talking about serves, but it's not comparable to that of a highly trained psychologist. I'm not the replacement therapist. Absolutely not, absolutely not. Highly trained psychologist.

Josh: I never said I was, to be clear. I'm not.

Tommy: Yeah, I'm just using an example because I think we could easily say we've got that friend that we talk to about everything, but it's like there is that unconditional, you know, listening and, um, and love that someone can part with and share with you. Not saying that's what I had, but yeah, it's pretty, it's pretty special, and I think that's why it's worth trying. It's worth trying.

Mason: Lara says on the live chat, I think self-help books are good for surface issues, perhaps areas you just want to improve, but our minds are powerful and complicated and you need an expert to help navigate it.

Josh: That makes sense. George, what's your perspective on this stuff?

George: I mean, I've never been to a psychologist outside of speaking to me, but, um, but I think my pretty much my whole family has. But my, I mean, my stepdad. Under the bus. No, no, it's fine. Like my stepdad was a psych for 25 years. So, wow. Oh really? There was lots of, yeah.

Josh: So, do you feel like he ever puts on his psych hat? Like do psychologists sort of?

George: Yeah, for sure. He doesn't like talking about it much. Like, you know, he doesn't want people to really. Know that about him in case they sort of judge him, you know, when they meet him or whatever. But, um, so I've sort of come from like two different father figure families, I guess. One who's a psych, very open and, and, you know, a psychologist. And the other one who's probably more closed and doesn't talk about his feelings much. So for me, this year it's been about, um, Yeah, bringing those conversations forward with friends and colleagues and partner and all that sort of thing. And it's been awesome. So I want to do more of it. I reckon I'd enjoy a psychologist session.

Mason: I reckon it'd be good. There is something in sort of like articulating it. Oh yeah, go for it.

Tommy: This is probably the one time we're seeing George fired up. He seems fired up, to be honest. This is not your traditional fired up, but he seems fired up.

Mason: Yeah, there is, there is something like being able to, like, as a, like, just on that books versus like actually talking to someone, it's the whole like writing is thinking or speaking is thinking, being able to actually articulate what you're, what you're saying, sort of like it helps you understand what you're feeling and puts thoughts together. So I think that's That's, that's probably one reason why I prefer talking to people over just books.

Tommy: Yeah, and then we can call— they can also be the one to call bullshit on the crap we're spinning in our own head, because that's the reality too. We form these absolute wild narratives for our own mind, which we all do it.

Josh: It's, uh, do you think like part of it, like for me it's been like my The trying not to think too much, like, I feel like my life has been thinking that I need to improve, like self-doubt. Like, if you think about how obsessed I am outside of the psych stuff, like in regards to everything being non-fiction, feeling like I need to improve, going from diet to diet. Like for me, I feel like my benchmark has always been I need to improve, I'm not good enough yet, I need to keep going. I wonder if there's also the other option, which is removing all of the judgement from the what we do, how we do things. Like, for me, those moments of being able to be like, you know what, today, like, I am going to do this thing, or I'm going to do absolutely nothing, or I'm not going to, you know, finish this piece of work, but I'm also not going to be guilty.

Tommy: Yeah, I think there's a faux satisfaction to, um, you know, that someone who identifies as a personal help junkie, which I've definitely like— go to a bookstore, I love like the, you know, the real shit. I don't like the fake stuff. You know, you're like that, Josh. And I've, and I, you know, buy the book. In the past, I've felt like the satisfaction before I've done any fucking work. And I think there's a big group of people that fall into that camp of they don't do the work, they buy the book, and they feel like they have done part of it. But Josh, what you just laid out there is the ultimate— to go to a therapist or psychologist and say, this is what I want to work on. Like, that is— I didn't have that strong a fucking thing that I presented to the person. I just said I want to work.

Josh: That's why I almost feel like it's hard, is because I've got all these hypotheses around what I think it is.

Tommy: Yeah, pick one. They'll work it out.

Josh: Yeah. Because I think part of it is like, like there's a million different narratives, which— because like, I think that that's like part of it is like we are— we're not single dimensional, like we're not one dimension. And so I do wonder about like if someone gets me on one day, they might be like, oh, that guy's very serious, or he's got the— or like if they see me within the context of getting work done. And being focused, they might get one version of me, but then they might hear me doing dick jokes and having that side of it. And so I just wonder how I can possibly— because I feel like part of it is this anxiety around I need to give them context for everything.

George: Yeah, yeah, you don't.

Tommy: But like, you just you've thought too hard about that in itself.

George: You—

Tommy: it literally, if you went with one, they like one thing, they're going to talk to you. This is where we don't— if we could— if you can say you have faith that we have the answers inside, but right now we might not have the answer, and so then this person can guide and ask questions that can help you discover an internal answer.

Josh: And so what are we seeking when we go to— when we do any of this stuff, even read, pick up a book, what are we trying to do?

Tommy: Oh, some sort of peace, like it's stillness. Like I think meditation, mindfulness, there's a, there's a deep yearning for stillness and less pain. And pain, like, pain's quite a triggering word. It doesn't mean, you know, your bung elbow or, or your extreme mental ill health. It could just be the waterfall of thoughts that just consume you for a day. And so it's finding that, and that's why people find things like activities that get you into a flow state that feel like you've disconnected from that overthinker and attached to something very specific and something that you can just sort of makes you feel like there's narrow and there's not a whole bunch of other stuff. Removes you from what is the mind. And that is the thing, like, most of us are struggling. Most of us are having too many thoughts, you know. Not that there's going to be less, but it's just we're just, we're just swimming in this world of thought. And, you know, can be and can lead to pain. Not always, but I mean, that's the fucked up thing, right? It's like When have you had more than 2 days of just bliss? It's like even when you are working on yourself, you still slip back into it. And so it is just a constant, constant battle. I think that's a bit negative. It's a constant, you know, constant work in progress.

Josh: And so George, when from not having those conversations versus going into the conversations What does it— on the other side, what's the difference personally?

George: Oh, it's, uh, it's— I mean, I always think back to what, um, you know, what Ryan was saying at the 500 party. No, not 500.

Tommy: Ryan's your guru, right?

George: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, the lady, right? Yeah. Um, he said it's all, you know, you, you go into these conversations thinking they're going to be really bad, and then they come out and the other person isn't going to be— isn't going to react the way you think. You're building up this storey in your mind and all that. So I think having those conversations, once you get the ball rolling, like Sez was saying, once it starts happening and you can just keep going, keep going, keep going, and just trying not to, I guess, hold anything back because now that you're in, just just, you don't want to finish the conversation and 2 days later be like, I was going to say that bit, but I just, you know, decided not to.

Josh: Why do you think we don't say it?

George: Don't know, maybe because the conversation is going well and you don't want to ruin it with an extra bit or something. I don't know. But with the psychology stuff, like, also, I remember him saying this on on his podcast, it's the days where you're feeling great, you've woken up, had a walk, gone, had a coffee. Like you go, I'm gonna go into this session, I've got nothing to say, I'm having a great day, everything's good. And those are the ones that are the best ones. That's what he reckons.

Josh: So yeah, well, because it's then uncovering the stuff, like it's not the first thought then, it's the second or the third or the stuff that's actually that a little bit more layered. Yeah, I don't know what—

Tommy: That's, that's, that's the answer, Josh, for you, right? It's like, one, go in with one thing doesn't mean that you're not fixed to the idea that you need to fix this thing. It could be, you know, it's, uh, you know, something from your childhood. Who knows? Fuck, who knows?

Josh: Yeah, I don't know. Like, it's so funny how I, I really think that the, the part of the pushback maybe is like when growing up and being told, it's like that was almost the threat growing up is like when I was misbehaving, it's like, we're gonna go take you to the psych, you're gonna get on ADHD drug, like, you know, you're done. And so I think that potentially that's part of it where it's like, yeah, totally, if that was the, if that was the threat growing up around like, we're going to get you medicated up because you're misbehaving too much. Like, I do, yeah, because I don't understand the pushback. I feel like For someone who's— because I'm a people pleaser, it's sort of annoying because it's like everyone says go to the psych, but it's just like— but I'm also— I love a bit of pushback. And so I feel like part of me, it's like I want to do it on my terms, but, um, I don't know.

Tommy: Are we doing another announcement that you're the psych guy now?

Josh: No, I don't know, too much.

Tommy: Like, fuck, can you have it in your bio? In therapy?

Josh: Maybe if I did it in a podcast, maybe if it was a pod— maybe if I get a psych that would be— could do it. Maybe Justin Bieber. Nah, just get Buzz to do it.

Tommy: Yeah, I mean, Buzz went to Justin Bieber's launch party for his—

Josh: so he's into the rah-rah, which I appreciate.

Tommy: Yeah, as much as I push back on my mum saying don't talk about your experience at the psychologist, which I think, you know, I think I'm— I, I think over the years I've worked out what I want to share and what I don't, and have, you know, having that filter there. I think you're great at it too, Josh. Um, it's, uh, it is a personal experience. Like, you know, I'm not telling you specific details about the stuff, but because it's not needed, but it's your— it is a part of the healing, or part of the process is It's all about you, Josh. It's like you don't want that fucking—

Josh: Yeah, which I think is weird.

Tommy: I think childhood on—

Josh: it's, it's this weird thing, I think, of, um, I don't know, but it's a site like— I'm not going to compare it to retail shops, but I hate, I hate going into a shop and having someone like specifically focus on, oh, what about try this or that? Or it's like, yeah, maybe there is something like this is performative, like there is a performative nature, or it is something that feels like the purpose of this is to make other people feel good, whereas potentially the idea of doing—

Tommy: yeah, I don't know, what you've just talked about there is, uh, pushing back on feeling uncomfortable because that's what it's going to make you feel, and that's okay. It's annoying shit that that helps us is uncomfortable, hard conversations, tough things, exercise that's hard, it all just comes with such benefit on the other side. But to say that you enjoy in the midst of something super uncomfortable is a bit crazy. 'Cause I think what anyone who's describing, yeah, I love the pain, is actually talking about the, on the other side of the pain is like this, euphoria, right? I don't necessarily think people are that into pain. It's the knowledge of pain equals something that is pleasurable, you know, or peace, or, you know.

Josh: I wonder what it's like, like, I think about Sykes, I'm like, it feels like a luxury. I wonder if you think about third world countries, or you think people that aren't necessarily as well off, or you think about people that are, you know, like, uh, have nothing but they're happy. I wonder about like, um, the— we've almost like— modern society has created this like industry or this thing that we, we need, need to do. Have you thought about any of that sort of stuff?

Tommy: Yeah, well, um, this— I can't remember a girl— she has a podcast called The Happiness Lab, and she, she works at Yale and as a lecturer, and she was talking about the, the most fucked up bit is that people with privilege are usually the ones that are, uh, are feeling like they haven't got anything or they're in pain. I can't remember how she put it, but it was a really good point. It's like pointing to the fact that just because you achieve stuff or have things or have been given shit isn't, isn't happiness. It doesn't equate to happiness. And she was saying the research is saying that they're the ones that have usually got a lot of problems, which, which, yeah. And so it doesn't quite speak to what you said.

Josh: We just hear about lots of like, so if you think about celebrities or you think about Hollywood you've got people who, uh, have access to the best doctors, the best psychs, the best everything, and, um, there's still a lot of fucked up stuff that goes on. And so, like, I just find it interesting. Like, it's definitely not sort of discrediting the value of it, but I also just think that there's, um Yeah, I just, I wonder about the industry. So like, maybe I'm like overly sceptical of the whole, the fact that why is it so expensive to go to see a psych? Why does the psych have, you know, a beach house and all of that sort of stuff? Like, what's, why do we put so much in that? I guess like you could say education or whatever. But there's a lot of people who are in essential services or whatever.

Mason: Why don't teachers have a big house?

Josh: And so like, I just wonder about like, that's where I go into, I know that that's not productive, but I do go into that sort of sceptical thing of like, oh, like this is an hourly, you know, $200 an hour thing or whatever it is.

Tommy: Yeah, I said that to the psychologist, 'Cause it was like, what, $160 a session or something? And then you get like, majority of that cost me about $60 for the session, I think. But I said, I've got no money, but I'm saying, what the fuck do people who have no money, what do they do? And they're probably the ones that are in a lot of pain as well. It's not just like people who can afford this are the only ones that have any problems to fix. It's like, no. There's probably, you know, severe unhappiness and, you know, pain going on in people that don't have the capacity to even go through the process to get this kind of help. And she says, yeah, I know. But I mean, yeah, I think that's where it's—

Josh: that's— I think it's for everyone. I think—

Tommy: but I think you're like—

Josh: do you think it is for everyone? Do you think it's a universal thing?

Tommy: That will, um, well, yeah, it is the closest thing to be universal based on we all have a mind, we all have thoughts, we all experience and process pain, happiness, all of these emotions, and we're not equipped necessarily with the skills to, um, to deal with the shit that is handed to us or that we create. And so that's where it is And that's like, is meditation for everyone? Maybe not. Mindfulness as a concept is, I think, universal in that we all have a mind and it's how do we perceive what we're experiencing and can we be observant on that? And I think that is a quality that can be universal. It's not to say that you need to practise every day, every day, but I think there is astounding benefits in being more observant and, and, um, and sort of pulled back from your state to observe it.

Josh: I appreciate you talking about it because I think it is like, it is one of those things where it is personal, and, and probably, um, you talking about it benefits everyone else more than it benefits you. So thank you for talking about it.

Tommy: No worries. Thank you.

Josh: Awesome. All right, it's a daily talk show. Anything else, George? We're gonna You gonna say something there? No, you disagreeing?

George: Yeah, it's nice.

Josh: Um, uh, the VIP Gronks, it's happening. Get WhatsApp installed. We're working on it now. Uh, we're not doing a theme, are we, for, for this Friday?

Mason: Not this Friday, the following Friday. I'm sure we'll, um, yeah.

Tommy: Oh guys, sorry, I've, um, I've actually given Campbell, uh, the official role of Friday night drinks promo vid guy.

Josh: Oh, Grumpa.

Tommy: You happy with that?

Josh: Great. Yeah. Does he have glow sticks?

Tommy: Sniff, matey.

Josh: Drink cards?

Tommy: I'll get him an award. Yeah, I don't know, he's got a lot of power and so he's been drinking for days after I told him. It's, um, it's a bit full-on to be honest.

Josh: Well, we're getting into the— uh, Bree's already looked up Aperol Spritz. We're going to be doing that.

Mason: Oh yeah, she was telling me about that.

Josh: Are you going to join that, Seb? So you're going to do the Aperol?

Mason: Yeah, I, I just have— I, I gotta go down to the shop and get some.

Josh: Well, you gotta—

Tommy: what I like it— oh, that's a bloody mission. Yeah, that's a good mission. What I like about Aperol is that it's cheap. I don't think it's— it's not like a— it's not $50 a bottle like tequila. What is it? How much is it? Let me just—

Josh: $35 for the pack.

Tommy: Oh, Matt, that's cheap as chips compared to— how much did you pay for your tequila, Georgie boy?

George: 55 or something. Aperol's not very strong though, so you will probably want to get about 2 bottles.

Josh: Yeah, who needs a psych when you've got Aperol Spritz?

Tommy: And it's also Monday, guys. We've still got 9 shows to do before that one.

Josh: I do wonder about the alcohol thing. I'm sure we'll dial it in eventually.

Tommy: Well, I don't think— I think Aperol is going to be a bit of a game changer for you. I don't think it will be like what happened the other day.

Josh: Well, I fell asleep in Venice on it. Bree and I had cheap, I think it was €3, Aperols. And this is when we just started drinking and we went into a piazza. And so, I had to sit, I was like, let's sit down because I'm feeling a little bit funny. And then, we like closed our eyes for a bit. It's good fun.

Tommy: Yeah. But I mean, that's very a European experience, like. Sounds, sounds magical, to be honest. Yeah, had an Aperol, fell asleep in Venice.

Josh: Yeah, it was beautiful.

Mason: Grace says she loves Aperols. Um, Shannon says absolutely not, they can get in the bin. Sorry.

George: Oh, that— yeah, you need, you need to also get Prosecco as well and soda water to make the spritz. And so you're gonna need Prosecco for Wednesday. Oh yeah, get the pack.

Josh: Yeah, yeah.

George: I don't know what the fact is.

Josh: All right, no, well, I don't know. It's— I think it's from Bree.

Mason: Did say you have to buy Prosecco.

Tommy: Okay, yeah, yeah, that's— that'd be nice. Oh, I might do those too. Hey, um, should we just push through till 4 PM's episode and just keep going? We're pretty much there. Otherwise we'll see you in like 2 and a half, 3 and a half hours.

Josh: What do we want to— just very quickly, what do we want to do for episode 700? It's what's happening very soon.

Tommy: Uh, when is it?

George: Like 11 days? Sunday?

Mason: No, I— so I think it's actually— I think it's, uh, not the coming Friday but the following Friday.

Josh: Actually be less than 11 days because we do 2 shows a day.

Tommy: Sunday?

George: What's up?

Josh: Is it 89?

Tommy: But Sam's—

Josh: is it a 5?

Mason: No, because maybe I didn't do 2. Hang on, give me a sec. It's, um, maybe it's not— I don't know, maybe it's not Friday. Hang on, we can, we can take this offline.

George: I think it's Sunday.

Tommy: Yeah, we'll take this offline. But yeah, good to start thinking about it. Um, Sunday sesh.

Josh: Great. You say boring day? Yeah, Sunday.

George: Sunday for 700. Oh, it's okay.

Mason: Oh yeah, you can make it entertaining.

Josh: Yeah, we can make it fun. It'd be nice to do something.

George: I could be wrong. I have to look. Do the math.

Mason: All right guys, yeah, 11 dice.

Josh: Yeah, okay, go. All right, Daily Talk Show, see you in, uh, uh, 3 hours and 30 minutes.

Tommy: Yep, we'll do.

Josh: Bye-bye.