Exclusives With Peter Shepherd

Peter: The Daily Talk Show.

Josh: It's The Daily Talk Show, episode 684.

Tommy: Welcome back to the show, Pete Shepherd, coming to us live from Elwood.

Peter: Yeah, we're tapping in from Elwood.

Tommy: How are you, mate? How's Southside?

Peter: It's great. We're happy down here. We are.

Josh: Oh mate, what happened to your energy? You were doing so well.

Peter: You flattened me right out.

Josh: Are you okay?

Peter: No, I'm good, I'm good, I'm good, I'm good. No, I was a little thrown by the delay, but I'm okay. I'm back. Here we go.

Tommy: All right, all right.

Josh: What have you been doing?

Peter: Always well, Bayside. Always well, TJ, to answer your question.

Tommy: What are you doing at the moment? I mean, what's, what's day-to-day look like for Peter Shepherd?

Peter: It looks very similar, honestly. Most of my work remains, so I'm very privileged and lucky in that sense. And I've been working instead of from a coworking space, I'm just working from home. So, everything remains very much intact other than I'm spending a lot of time in my apartment, which, you know, has its pros and cons.

Tommy: Are you gonna throw in the towel? Are you gonna not go back to the coworking space? Like, I think a lot of people are gonna be like, nah, that was $800 a month that I don't need in my life.

Peter: It's definitely crossed my mind, or at least relocating. I don't need to go to Collingwood, you know, I'm perfectly happy staying bayside or going to South Melbourne maybe. But yeah, definitely considering what that $800, $600, however much it was, what that money was for and whether I need to spend it.

Josh: Gem is not happy that you're not sitting in front of the map. What happened?

Peter: The map's, I'm looking at the map. I actually wanted to get more of a global view as we were talking. So, I'm staring at the map. I've got New York in the background, Gem, if you wanna see New York. Yeah.

Tommy: So, yeah. I mean, that's it. There should be a candle next to that 'cause New York's not, doing too well at the moment. Your friend, uh, um, who you co-host your podcast with, Jen, does she live in New York?

Peter: She does. They've been lucky that her and the family have escaped. Basically, they flew out to stay further north, out more in Massachusetts, to get out of the greater New York area because it's, it's a bleak, bleak place at the moment.

Josh: Yeah. What happens with all like people who— because you, um, work with a bunch of people who are in like, um Broadway and stuff. Is any of that happening?

Peter: No, like the whole thing doesn't exist. So there's a bunch of— a whole industry basically disappeared overnight. And so there's a bunch of creative and interesting projects like, you know, like the Comedy Fest, for example, in Melbourne, how they tried to take some of that online. There's some things like that happening in New York, but for the most part, that entire industry just disappeared overnight, essentially.

Tommy: So it's pretty crazy. I'm going to tell you a storey right now that, um, is— please Clearly an absolute lack of social distancing being sort of displayed here in Victoria, specifically in Heidelberg. No, this is not a Tommy's Tanti. This is a fucking— I don't know what you call this.

Josh: Is this bigger than a Tommy's Tanti?

Tommy: Well, I'm not angry. I'm just fucking weird.

Peter: It's a big setup.

Tommy: I'm weirded out, guys. I'm weirded out. I felt I had adrenaline going. My heart was racing. And it was a little scary. So I've been a bit sick. Big Pete wanted to sort of do something that would allow me to get some fresh air, sort of get that immune system sort of slowly, slowly sort of picking back up. I heard that sort of slow walking or just a slight walk for 20 minutes.

Josh: Just walking.

Tommy: Slow walking. Just a walk for 20 minutes.

Peter: Slow walking.

Tommy: Sorry, I meant, what I meant was not a far walk, not a long walk. But just a short walk. Short walk, that's it.

Peter: Slow, short, leisurely.

Tommy: Anyway, it was pretty fucking slow, but it picked up the speed. So I went and drove to this park in Heidelberg. There's a river, there's the Yarra River that flows through. It goes, you know, all the way through Bulleen and then, you know, further into the city. And so this beautiful spot, there's like kangaroos and shit around here, and I thought, I've never been there. I drove, pulled into this car spot, car park, and I legged it, got into sort of some bushy, bushy area. And I thought, there's no sort of clear path. I need to get down towards the river, and I want to walk along the river's edge, right? So I saw like sort of a trail that led me down, and I was, and I was walking through, and I'd noticed a few people as I was sort of going, no one in this specific environment area. And I got down towards the river, it got sort of real shrubby, and the trail was quite sort of small I sort of saw a sort of colour in the bushes and I was like, ah, what's that? No, it could be someone, could be a homeless person. There's a lot of people that sort of sleep in these, you know, these areas along riverbanks and stuff in tents. Anyway, I kept walking, got to the river, it was still pretty shrubby, and I noticed sort of like a tent that was completely flattened and it was obviously someone had lived there. Anyway, I cut through and I was like—

Josh: I mean, where it's going is it seems like people having sex. Did that cross your mind at this point?

Tommy: Not at all, because I'm like, this is fucking— this is like a shrub, real shrubby area in a lovely spot, like along the river's edge.

Josh: Have sex though, if you're going to do it in a shrubby place?

Tommy: How do you know so much, expert?

Josh: No, well, I just feel like that would be— boy, do you think that that's not a thing? I feel like that's a thing.

Tommy: Well, I didn't— that didn't cross my mind at all. And then I bumped into this dude, and he was— just looked like, you know, it could be— it could be Pete Shepherd's dad, to be honest.

Josh: Physically touched him?

Tommy: No, not physically, like No, I just— it was a guy that sort of looked like he'd have a lovely son like Pete Sheppard, you know. That's what I'm saying, that's the vibe. And I said to him, mate, how annoying. I was hoping there was going to be a nice track alongside the river. And he's like, yeah. And then I went back and sort of cut back through, and he kind of followed me back. And then I got out into the open again. I was like, I'll try another path. And then I saw another dude ahead. I'm like, oh, fuck. Then my mind started going to the area of doggy. Maybe this isn't, maybe this isn't just a place that people go for a nice wander. And so I jumped on the phone, I had my AirPods in. At that point my heart was racing because I realised that there was a lot of men around this area and I had my little pink salmon shorts on and I was, you know, just tight black tee, had my sunnies on. And then I called my brother, I was like, mate, because it's near his place, I was like, dude, is this it? I'm in Heidelberg near the river. Is this a fucking gay beach or something? And he's like, hang on, where are you? And there's a derogatory term which I won't say that the bike riders call this place. It is Bend, and they use a term at the start, and it's basically the area it is. It's called The Bend, and they put a word in front, the bicycle community that ride through there. Anyway, he's like, yeah, mate, that is. I'm like, fuck, there's a dude following me. I'm I wandered down here, I didn't know what it was going to be, and there's people everywhere. And he's like, mate, he's like, they're going to be coming for you, big boy.

Josh: Shannon Tilney says this sounds like a dodgy Christian hell story, which it does.

Tommy: The worst thing is I got— I was like, I'm out of here, and I walked towards the car park, and then this guy's coming towards me, and he looked like a PT, just had some sort of tight, you know, exercise gear on. He goes into the bushes but he's looking back at me like he's just wanting me to just follow him. It was full on, guys.

Josh: It reminds me of that TikTok that's like the trending TikTok at the moment where someone sets up, they set up a storey and they say, I was standing around out the front of my house and a guy said—

Tommy: Is that out the front of KFC?

Josh: No, no, no, well, yeah, they're all different, but this was, yeah, like the people are doing different versions, but they're like, yeah. He said that if I sucked his dick, he'd give me a pencil. Anyway, it's disgusting, but he went over that way, just over there, and you see that you're holding the pencil.

Tommy: It's like the Maccas one.

Mason: You tagged me in a—

Tommy: what did you—

Mason: you sent me a Maccas one or something like that?

Josh: Yeah, there was the KFC one. There was like a—

Mason: That was KFC.

Josh: Yeah, there's a lot of— there's ones where it's a lady says, oh yeah, this guy came up to me and said, if you show— love, if you show me your tits, I'll give you a chocolate bar. I said, what? He said, yeah, you show me your tits and I'll give you a chocolate bar. Anyway, he went over there and she's got a chocolate bar. It's very funny. It's good TikTok.

Peter: I've seen a similar one with toilet paper as well. When toilet paper was in demand, there was someone that did it with the toilet paper as well.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: Oh dude, what are you consuming, Pete, in regards to content at the moment?

Peter: Actually less than normal. It's really interesting. I'm finding I'm listening to less podcasts, I'm consuming less audiobooks. But they would still be the two main things I'm trying to consume, podcasts and audiobooks. And just, I'm, for some reason I'm consuming less, I think maybe because I'm not commuting as much. Like, it doesn't take long to walk from my bedroom to my study, so I don't need to put a podcast in, in that sense. So it's still just kind of the same but less.

Josh: Yeah, okay.

Mason: What about news?

Peter: None, none at all. No, I haven't watched That Tiger show that everyone's talking about. I'm like, this is the pushback.

Josh: Tiger, what is your pushback on Tiger King?

Peter: I just, I don't have any interest or any time to sit down and watch that show. I just, it doesn't bother me, it doesn't interest me.

Tommy: Well then, what are you doing at night? Let's like, you know, you're at home, you've just cooked dinner, probably beans and chicken.

Josh: Or is it a COVID couple who's just He's now in a relationship, he's got a girlfriend.

Peter: Yeah, yeah, I have.

Josh: Yeah. And so, and so is that, is that taking your time?

Peter: Oh no, that's only like a couple of nights a week we'll hang out, but the other nights, I don't know, I'm having my dinner and I think listening to a podcast, TJ. I'm still just listening to podcasts. I don't sit down and watch Netflix, it's just not a thing that I do.

Josh: So you don't Netflix and chill, like, so that's not a thing that you do as a couple? What are you doing?

Peter: No, not once. We haven't turned the TV on once. We talk. Puzzles? No, we like converse, like communication.

Josh: Like sitting on the couch type of thing? Like this.

Peter: Like dialogue, yeah.

Mason: That's lovely.

Peter: Just having conversation. I don't know, like Seb, can you relate? Can Seb relate? He's been talking to someone recently, hasn't he?

Mason: Yeah, I can relate. But we, I mean, we are doing Netflix parties as well. So I mean, but yeah, you do get caught up in the talking. Like you can go like 4 hours or whatever and By then you're just like, oh yeah, don't know about Netflix now, it's a bit tired.

Tommy: JJ, to be fair, you're 12 deep, I'm 6 deep. There's a few years between, you know, you and Bree and Amy and I have been together nearly 20 years in total.

Josh: Yeah, well, yeah, you sort of end, you incorporate some Netflix and stuff just to sort of, yeah, so you've got something.

Tommy: These little honeymooners, Josh, yeah, they don't even need Netflix.

Josh: What about Pete? There's the, um, There's the questions. Have you used any of the questions I've been posting on Instagram?

Peter: I actually, I committed to you that I would try a few and I have. I've experimented with a few of them. Some of them were great, some of them not so much, but there was a couple that were all right.

Tommy: What was the standout for you, Pete?

Peter: I think I liked the one that was around, do you sleep on an airplane? That started a good conversation.

Josh: Oh yeah, well, because you're such a baby when it comes to the plane.

Peter: What's your behaviour like on a— hang on, why am I a baby on the plane?

Josh: Well, you want to be forward. You're in the basic economy seat. You're either flying at the front, Normally.

Peter: Yeah, well, you want to be comfortable. 6 foot 7, your man's got to be comfortable.

Tommy: True.

Josh: And so what is—

Tommy: Babies also fly up the front because they've got that area where they can sleep.

Josh: And so is Tracey a sleeper on the plane?

Peter: No, we uncovered that she's not unless she's had some sort of Xanax or something to knock her out, basically. So it's more of a sitting up, conversing type situation. For when, if and when we're allowed to travel.

Josh: Do you think that there's a difference between if you're getting in into a relationship during a lockdown, don't you think that potentially it's like when you, you know, fall in love on a trip to Hamilton Island? Do you think that you're going to get this sort of COVID-19 version and then you're going to realise that you're completely different people?

Peter: I think it's the opposite than the Hamilton Island situation, because what happens when you're on a holiday when you meet someone is that everything is sunflowers and rainbows and you're on a holiday and you're in a great mood. Whereas what's happening in the middle of COVID is there's like nothing to do. There's no interesting experiences to go and— Yeah, what's going on here? This is—

Josh: Is that too much?

Peter: That's a little, Chris.

Tommy: What's happened, Pete?

Peter: Tell me what you're thinking.

Josh: So yeah, that was exclusive. I did sort of do the Current Affair style thing, which is a— an exclusive graphic, which I thought could be funny if I felt like we're getting an exclusive.

Peter: I wasn't sure if that was just on my end and I was like, I'll just keep talking.

Tommy: To be honest, I didn't even know Pete had a girlfriend. That was the exclusive to me. I hadn't heard that. So yeah, just on— I don't have to— we don't have to get into your relationship, but I was just seeing Chris D'Elia, who's a comedian who's got a Netflix— new Netflix special out. Pete, you wouldn't know about it because you don't watch Netflix, but it's really great if you wanted to see it. I think it's called No Pain. He's pretty private, but he, I mean, he has a podcast and he does stand-up shows, so he does reveal a bunch about his life. But I just heard him talk today on Joe Rogan's podcast. He's like, yeah, I had a kid 2 months ago. The fuck? Never heard that he even had a partner. And he's good, and he's just, and he's had a kid. And they were talking about, obviously him and Joe have talked about it, so it was, it was kind of like there'd been all this preamble before as you do with your mate. But then it was just at this point, it is a weird thing. I mean, relationships are very public these days thanks to social media, podcasts, Josh Jackson. You know, it's, um, how do you feel? Are you a private guy, do you think, Pete?

Peter: Usually, yeah, I would say that I am. And what, what's interesting about the circumstances of COVID is that like, we're probably gonna— if and when everything gets lifted and all of a sudden you're out socialising with your girlfriend who you've been with for 6 months and everyone's gonna be like, wow, this is new and fresh. And you're gonna be like, no, it's not. This has been happening for 6 months. So like that behind closed doors element feels a lot more amplified at the moment 'cause everyone is literally behind closed doors.

Tommy: What about with your clients? So you coach people where it's, you know, you're putting them first, you're trying to help them, but how do you make a decision to, I guess it's like a psychologist in some degree, you are just less educated to be honest. Let's study. I love you, Pete. Mate, I was a Cert 3 life coach. Absolutely no business life coaching at 20.

Josh: Are you saying that you've got more coaching qualifications than Pete?

Peter: That's what I'm hearing as well. That's what I'm hearing. Geez, I'm copping it today. I know. I'm really glad I committed to coming on.

Tommy: How often do you talk personally with your clients about your life and what's going on?

Peter: Pretty rarely. It varies based on clients. Some clients I've been working with long enough where we're now just friends.. And so it might be that the last little portion of the, the call or the meeting we spend just like catching up as friends. But for the most part, it's nothing about me and all about the client. So that probably feeds into your point of everything is probably a little bit more private just by the nature of my work, is I don't need to sit around and talk about myself because that's not what I get paid to do.

Josh: What, like, what's the deal in regards to announcing relationships? Like, I feel like it's easier potentially when you're younger, you update your Facebook. And it's all public. But with something like this, like, what's the— you can come on a podcast and I can do it for you, but like, what's the other options?

Peter: We intentionally messaged a few friends, which it would be the sort of thing that would come up in a conversation if you were all out or you saw each other, but we can't do that anymore. So we intentionally messaged a few friends a couple of weeks ago and just let them know.

Josh: Was that weird? Like, did you do it like—

Peter: A little bit.

Josh: Did Tracey send it to some, you send it to others? Is it a group iMessage? What's the—

Peter: It was kind of like a group iMessage. You know how I feel about those. It was like, there was a couple of moments where you're sort of trying to hint at, give someone a hint, oh, like, what's been going on? Who have you been hanging out with? And then they don't really reciprocate or ask the question. So you're like, oh, okay, well, that's a missed opportunity. So in the end, you just got to come out and say, I just thought you might want to know this has happened. So it was a bit of a divide and conquer. I told a few people, Tracy told a few people, and now I just broke it on a podcast thanks to Josh.

Josh: Yeah, and we'll use it as a little snippet as well.

Tommy: I am pretty curious because, uh, I, I mean, when did I get with Amy? When I was 20— 24 or something. I'm trying to work out how old are you, Pete? 30? You're my age, right? 88?

Peter: Yeah, 30. Yep, 89.

Tommy: 89. Yes. Um, do you say, do you want to be my girlfriend these days? Is that what you do? Do you want to be my girl? Yeah.

Josh: How did it—

Tommy: how does that work?

Peter: Are we really going into this?

Tommy: I'm all just like, we can all use this as an example for Seb's who's—

Josh: I'm just for the exclusive graphic. This feels like it's going somewhere good. I probably could have just added this in post, to be honest.

Peter: Yeah, this is great. It looks better in real time though.

Josh: And so yeah, how did it happen?

Peter: Well, it came up, it came up in a conversation, TJ, of something like Tracy said something like, oh, we should pick it, like, do we need a date? As in a date to mark when we, you know, started dating or became official. And I said, oh yeah, I guess we do. And then she was like, oh, should it be last week? And I was like, oh yeah, I guess I should ask you first though. So I said, do you wanna be my girlfriend? Do you wanna be my sidekick? And she was like, yeah. So we made it from that day onwards. So yes, I did ask and now I'm cringing awkwardly in my chair as I tell you that story. No, this is great.

Tommy: It's great. I mean, it's a better outcome than what happened to Josh and I. I asked Amy to be my girlfriend. She said no. Well, she said not now. And I persisted.

Peter: That's not no, that's not now.

Tommy: Well, it's almost like why not? I've heard that before. Why not is close to that as well.

Peter: Oh, that's terrible.

Tommy: Josh got knocked back, but he persisted.

Josh: Yeah, he got knocked back 3 times.

Tommy: Yeah, but, um, and, uh, he, he had the classic sales approach, you know, a no's not a no.

Josh: No, well, actually, no, I did the whole thing where it just completely— I said initially, I'm like, look, um, I can't be friends then. I'm just like, it's too hard for me. Yeah, so I did the 4 weeks where I just like went cold. Yeah, well done.

Peter: Yeah, well done.

Josh: It took a few months after that.

Peter: Yeah, but, um, yeah, now Tracy said yes luckily, so I didn't have to wait the 3 months or the 2 months or play hardball.

Tommy: Yeah, solid, solid.

Peter: I feel like— can I, can I ask a question and be like, is this something that Seb's and Grace have talked about? Is this a conversation that's happening in these 4 walls, or—

Mason: yeah, I mean, yeah, I mean, yeah, we've had the, we've had the conversation where We're a thing, which is, uh, what's really nice. Sorry, sorry, sorry.

Josh: Come on, mate, quick.

Peter: Hang on. Oh my God. Yes!

Mason: Yeah, Grace and I are a thing.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: What does that, what does that mean?

Josh: What does that mean? What does a thing mean?

Tommy: What is it?

Mason: Well, no, so we, so it came up the other day in chat and I I was sort of calling out, just calling it out just for banter.

Josh: And everything starts with just for banter for you, doesn't it?

Mason: And then we went into it sort of just seriously and talked about it. And yeah, she's great. She's heaps of fun. And so yeah, we're now dating.

Tommy: Yes.

Peter: So you're a classic boyfriend and girlfriend. This is great.

Tommy: This is honestly the first time I'm hearing it.

Josh: Scooter says good day. Oh my God, Lyndon, good banter. People are loving it. Going steady, right? Going steady.

Tommy: When the banter's that strong. This is amazing. We've got some love coming in.

Josh: Yeah, a lot of love coming in. Nice watermark. A lot of love in the chat. Says typo connection.

Mason: Thank you.

Josh: That took me a while.

Tommy: Geez, this is—

Josh: Harry wants to know, is it Tracy the voiceover from Nine News? Do you know, does Tracy do the voiceover?

Peter: It's not. No, it's not. Sorry, Harry.

Mason: Are you sure that's voiceover, Josh, or is that just her last name? Tracy Vo from Night News?

Josh: Oh, maybe it is. Yeah, I don't think it's Tracy Vo.

Peter: I just feel like it's Tracy voiceover.

Tommy: Is it gonna slash between the V and the O, Josh?

Josh: Because that's just—

Mason: no, no, no, she's, she's, she's a journo. Tracy Vo.

Josh: I'm so sorry.

Tommy: This is great.

Josh: Shannon says, uh, how great, uh, lots of love.

Peter: This is huge.

Josh: And so, um, and so how much of, uh, when you're starting a relationship in ISO, how much of it is talking about what you're going to do when you get out of ISO? Starting with you first, Pete.

Peter: Me first? Okay. Yeah, it's right there with the percentage-wise.

Josh: I just saw TJ grab a t-shirt. What the fuck is going on?

Mason: Fuck off.

Tommy: I was blowing my nose.

Josh: Are you okay?

Tommy: I'd turned off the audio too, but he cuts to me visually.

Josh: Yeah, go on.

Peter: He was getting emotional. It's crossed our mind, like we've talked about it a bit, like, oh, you know, are we going to go on a— what does it look like to go on a holiday? What does it look like to go and do activities and do stuff? But then at the same time, it's like, well, what's the point in thinking and worrying about it too much? Let's just enjoy hanging out as we can at the moment. So it doesn't dominate conversation, but it's come up a few times. What about you, Sebbs?

Mason: Most of the time it's sort of like what we end our conversations on. It's like, can't wait till you get to Melbourne or like, what are we gonna do? Yeah, I mean, we wanna do a little road trip when Grace gets to Melbourne, so.

Josh: Oh yeah.

Peter: So we're gonna figure that out.

Josh: Road trip, how are you like, I mean, we don't have to worry about logistics. We've done enough about logistics.

Peter: No, where are we going? Is it a team road trip? Are we all going? Yeah, but where are we going?

Josh: No, what are you thinking?

Mason: Great Ocean Road sort of area.

Peter: That'd be nice. Oh yeah, this is great. This is great. That's my stomping ground, Sevs.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: Pete's very good at sort of the Airbnb stuff. Any recommendations on what— are you gonna get an Airbnb? Is that the idea, Sevs?

Mason: Yeah, that's the plan. Yeah.

Josh: Okay.

Peter: I think Whye River might be good for you, Sevs. I reckon just pop down to Whye River.

Tommy: Lovely. Have they redone the pub down there?

Peter: Yeah, the pub's looking good. The cafe is fantastic. You got a few walks. You got a nice beach, Sevs. You'll love it. So were you, great.

Josh: So were you, Josh.

Tommy: Visit Victoria.

Peter: And Josh.

Tommy: That's great, that's great. Hey Pete, have you shifted any of your thinking? I mean, your world hasn't kind of changed, so I'm thinking maybe, maybe no, maybe it's a no, but around sort of ambition where you want to take your career and what you're doing.

Peter: That's a fair question. I think Probably at the start of this year, I spoke at Craig Harper's conference and had thought about what it looks like to do more corporate public speaking and spoke at TEDx late last year. And so I was leaning into that a little bit. And obviously now that is like not a thing, as in speaking in front of crowds and audiences. So I've essentially taken that from my list of things I'd like to do more of and then instead tried to refocus and build and create more and lean into honestly the online learning experiences, which I've been lucky enough to be doing for 3 years. It's now just, what does it look like to do more of it? What does it look like to work with Seth a bit more and work with Jen a bit more and do more of the online stuff and less of the leaning into the talking and the sort of face-to-face stuff? So it's sort of changed, but it sort of hasn't.

Josh: Does more people being on Zoom change things for you?

Peter: It does in like really subtle ways, in that the barrier that people have— some people initially have a bit of a barrier to Zoom, like, oh, I don't know how to use this, I don't know how to work this, this is weird, how does it work? Now it's just like everybody gets it, which is kind of cool. And along the same line, everyone is now an expert on Zoom, which is always fun and interesting, whereas in the past people are like, oh, it's new and exciting and like, this is great. But now everyone's got an opinion on how to use it best, how to use it properly, what it looks like. And so there's some interesting nuances that come with that for sure.

Tommy: And just know that if someone is delivering that statement and they do not have a microphone plugged into their computer, don't fucking listen to them. If they've got headphones on and they're talking through their AirPods and they're giving that advice, don't listen to them.

Peter: What's the—

Josh: do you have any little Zoom hacks or any— like if you're doing a, um, because you've done things like breakout rooms and shit like that, If people want to use Zoom beyond the standard thing, what's some easy things you can do?

Peter: I think that breakouts is a great one. So what I think about is the thing that's happened a lot at the moment is people are trying to replicate things they were doing in person on Zoom, and it's just not a good idea. What you should instead seek to do, in my opinion, is leverage the technology to do something better or different. And so the example I use with breakouts is like, if you had a conference full of 600 people and said, everyone take 5 minutes to break out into a group of 3 and answer this question, go, it would like— it'd be absolute pandemonium in person. You couldn't do it. Whereas with breakouts, you can ask one question, throw people into groups of 5 with the click of a button, and have them connect and talk for 5 minutes, and then bring them back into the Zoom room, which is something you can't replicate in person. And it's really, really cool. It's really powerful. It's really like a great way to build connection. So I think that the breakouts is a really underrated function of Zoom, essentially.

Josh: Do you have a certain size that you think is good? Because we have been doing the bigger Zoom calls with their Friday night drinks, and I think going from 25 to like 40, all of a sudden things got a little bit harder just being able to view them.

Tommy: Do you have too much pressure for precious?

Peter: A lot of pressure. It depends, like, if the 40 need to be interacting, that's very difficult obviously. But if they're just sitting there passive, I don't think the number matters that much other than stage fright for DJ Precious. But other than that, I think other than that, it's more of if you want to engage 40 people, that's going to take a lot of time obviously. Sure. And so that's where I would say if you're not using breakouts, things like the chat are super helpful. So everyone tell me what's your favourite song and put it in chat, as opposed to 'What are you drinking?' and put it in chat, as opposed to like, let's go around the room and just sit there for 40 minutes while you wait for every person to give you a description of their glass of water.

Mason: Is that feedback on our show, or—

Peter: well, that was, uh, no, no, just hypothetical examples. It's just hypothetical examples.

Tommy: We can be going around the room asking what people are drinking, so, uh, it'd be happening a while.

Peter: Hey, uh, it took up 30 minutes when I was here.

Tommy: Hey, um, we're inclusive, mate, so yeah. Fuck it. Um, anyway, the new— do you think with your sort of situation not having changed too much other than the new relationship, uh, what, um, are you— what are you seeing in terms of what you're coaching people on, all the conversations you're having, being geared towards the new world, or what the sort of horizons looking like to people? Like, is it different?

Peter: Yeah.

Tommy: Do you think we're moving into some sort of new era, new world?

Peter: I think it's hard to say, but it's hard to see that this won't impact a bunch of stuff in some way. I just don't know what that looks like. I think now it's going to be more people working remotely. I think now it's going to be more leaders and businesses supporting remote work and flexible work and working from home. In terms of the structure or the nature of the conversations, For me, it's around how can you help people not think about this as like a temporary thing of like, let's just hold it together and survive until this is all over and then everything will be fine and we'll go back to normal. It's actually like, how do we take this as a moment in time to pause and think, what are we trying to do as a business, or what am I trying to do as a leader, and what does it look like to do that now in these circumstances and with the constraints that I have? And do it in a way that's sustainable beyond just the next 6 months or 3 months or however long it's going to be. So it's more about how do we set ourselves, set ourselves up to sort of thrive and level up, if you want to use that verbiage, as opposed to just survive and exist until we get to the other side. It's like just more of a posture of like using this time to move forward as opposed to like remain stagnant.

Josh: So does that mean that are you looking longer term or shorter term than you were, say, 6 months ago?

Peter: I don't know if that's changed. I don't know if that's changed other than the long term, probably the short term view of— I mean, I was meant to be in New York at the moment for 5 weeks. So the short term world, in my short term world, has changed in that I'm in a different place than I was meant to be. So I guess in that sense, I've thought a little bit more short term. But I think they're— I don't think they're unrelated in that if I can think about how I show up in the short term, I want to think about a way that I can show up that extends into the long term. I don't think they're two separate people. I don't think they're two separate viewpoints. For me, it's focusing on how I show up now and in the short term, which then feeds the long term.

Josh: Is there, is there things that you learn starting like dating when you're 30 Obviously it's different than when you're younger. What have you learned about yourself in through, you know, the process of being single and then also getting used to the idea of commitment and all that sort of stuff?

Peter: I think what's been really cool, and you and I have spoken about this, JJ, is that Tracey and I have known each other for years. So we've been friends for, I don't know, 4 or 5 years. And so what's been awesome about that is we have this solid foundation of trust and friendship and connection that existed prior. And not only that, but we're both now essentially mature, not mature, but we're adults and have our shit together, have our lives together a little bit more than we might have 5 years ago. I think most people by the time they're 30 just have a bit better idea of who they are, what they like, what they're working on than when you're in your early 20s or in JJ's case when you're still in high school. Like you just, it's a different dynamic in that you kind of know yourself a little bit more, which is great. And neither is right, neither is wrong. But what I'm recognising is I have more clarity in what I like and what I want and what I need. And so does Tracey. And we have this existing 5-year basis of friendship, which means that so much of the tension of getting to know one another, like doesn't exist or hasn't happened, which has been really cool.

Josh: When we had Matt D'Avella on, he was spinning some solid dating advice. And I feel like—

Tommy: Is it really needed at all? For anyone anymore. I know, we may as well finish the show up early. Sure, we're gonna go 10 years.

Josh: You need to— we need to change the programme for a dating programme to how to, how to keep a relationship going. Um, any, any advice, uh, for 97 being a little bit older, a little bit more mature? I know that you don't want to use the word mature, but you are mature, Pete, I think.

Peter: Thanks, mate. I appreciate that. I was keen to get advice off Seb's, but I think that my advice would be something that Seb's already has his head around really well, like really productively, which is focus on your chest, focus on your chest, do a lot of reps on the, on the bench, have lots of saunas, lots of saunas, and spend time communicating and getting to know one another. As well, but mainly bench. Mainly bench.

Josh: I'm just so happy.

Tommy: Thanks, man. Harper— sorry, we've just— Ian Trainor has jumped in. He said Harper has 200+ on his Zoom calls.

Josh: That's a lot of people.

Tommy: That's a lot of people.

Mason: A lot of people.

Peter: Yeah, geez.

Tommy: Anyway, it's chaos. No, it's interesting. I mean, you set it up sort of, there is probably still stuff in that friendship building. How do you build a nice friendship? How do you personally do it? Even outside of relationships, Pete, like as in, you know, boyfriend, girlfriend, boyfriend, boyfriend.

Peter: Yeah, yeah. Like I think, I don't know. I don't know if you can manufacture it. I feel like a lot of these things happen organically and naturally. I think like, if I think about the friendship—

Tommy: Like Josh's list of questions.

Peter: Yeah.

Josh: So this is the thing. Pete thinks that our friendship was natural. It was a blow-by-blow, week-by-week strategy that I put in place.

Peter: Yeah, it was.

Josh: You've fallen into my little honey trap.

Tommy: It was SWOT analysis, it was whiteboard sessions, it was intensive training with Craig Harper.

Peter: A lot of planning.

Josh: I'd actually, yeah, I looked at my charts. I knew that you and Tracey were getting back together in November. I had it all sort of charted out on my strategy, so it's great. Um, now what— now what is it from a friendship point of view? What do you think? What do you think it is?

Peter: No, I think it's that you can't manufacture it. It's like if you spend time doing things that are interesting to you, then you're probably going to meet people who are interested in the same things as you, and as a result, you're going to have values that align. And that to me naturally creates a connection and creates a friendship. So I think it's about not forcing anything, which is like, I'm going to go find a friend now, or I'm going to go find a girlfriend now, or I'm going to go find a boyfriend now. I don't think you can manufacture it unless you're Josh Janson with your 27-point plan. Outside of that, I don't think you can.

Josh: Um, Jenna wants to make it very clear that you and her are best friends. Um, as in you and Gemma. She's just been writing that in the comments.

Peter: Okay, good to know.

Tommy: Who's been—

Josh: as in Gemma.

Peter: I appreciate that.

Josh: She, she, and she wants to make it clear that she knew before us about their relationship. So yeah, she's just got that in. What are you gonna say, Tashane? I said it.

Tommy: Um, I was thinking about like, uh, this came up based on chatting to someone about potentially starting a podcast and sort of working out some elements before, and one of those being your why for doing something. And I think it's probably what you talk to people about a lot— what's your why? Um, My pushback— I always love to have pushback on some of these sort of basics that you could read online that are very much of like cookie cutter. It's like, work out your why, your value, all this stuff, right? And there can be a lot of time spent in working out your why for a lot of things, but then in, in life, and it's like the questions, it's like that, you know, it naturally happening, things sort of shifting quickly, or you know you know, you're needing to adapt. How much do you think when working at a why for something, how much is this literally when you are putting something down on paper, is it just an arrow pointing in a direction and then it's all about being able to be agile?

Peter: Hmm, I love this question. I feel like the thing about a why is, I want to say most people's are a version of the same thing, which is along the lines of to help people get somewhere. Like, most people are fulfilled by helping other people in some way. And so if that's why you do what you do, that's awesome. What is more important, I think, is how you do that. And then the layer below that— so if you think about Simon Sinek's Golden Circle, why, how, what— the what is the thing that can change. So what you do might be a podcast, and that is an expression of your why, But over time you might recognise that the podcast is not actually the thing that you want to do anymore. And Hugo and Hamish, and you guys talk to Hamish about this, I remember hundreds of episodes ago, about it might be that you get down the path and realise maybe it's more like a YouTube channel, or maybe it's more like a business that you start that does something else.

Tommy: That, yeah, maybe it's more like a Current Affair where we're running, you know, exclusive things over the top, you know.

Josh: It's really, I don't know, it's interesting about why, I don't know. Yeah.

Peter: With Tracy the voiceover artist. Yeah, so I think the why—

Josh: Tracy Grimshaw joke would have been funnier in that case, but I guess his thing was Channel 9 rather than A Current Affair.

Tommy: Sorry.

Peter: Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I was just going to say, so I think the why shouldn't change, but the what should definitely change and be flexible to context and circumstances like we're in right now. And we need to get comfortable changing our what, but everything should still be in alignment with what— or sorry, why we seek to do it, which is usually a version of helping people get somewhere.

Tommy: Do you think there's, um, because there's some kind of, uh, emotive or sort of romantic relationship with the what that is connected to the why? So it is podcasting, it is I want to connect with people, but podcasting is the glitzy glammy thing, could be at the moment. How much is there work needing to be done on— because I think there is some link to it, right? It's like, it's easy. I think it's easy to just say that your what isn't the why, but the what plays a lot into it because the what is what you fucking show up and do every single day.

Josh: Well, the what seems more visible too. I think that like for a lot of people, say with Zoom, you can see the, uh, the opportunities with doing Zoom videos and doing and providing stuff which normally then you can deconstruct and say, okay, well, it's because I want to connect with people.

Peter: Yeah, I mean, when I switched to you normally, but I didn't really—

Tommy: yeah, when all goes wrong, run the exclusive. He's going to say something good here.

Mason: I can—

Peter: I think I was just going to say The thing that my friend and co-host Jen Baldwin would say, TJ, is— I'm not going to look because it's going to make me laugh— is that content dictates form. So what we should do is, in thinking about our why, think about the content we want to get out there that promotes or speaks to or cultivates that why, and then the form should come after that. So the form might be a podcast, but the moment we start with a podcast One school of thought is the moment you start with a podcast and try and work backwards, it can become like something that you get lost in, or it can become something that you lose interest in because you didn't start with why you're doing it and what's the content that you want to get out there, and then let that dictate, well, what's the form it should take? Should it take the form of a podcast? Should it take the form of a keynote? Should it take the form of a blog? You shouldn't start with that.

Josh: So do you catch yourself then? Like, how do you— like, I'm guessing You're seeing a bunch of different things people are doing. How do you switch it if you're feeling like you're getting into a mode of, hang on, is this actually aligned with my why? What do you do?

Peter: Well, I just, I try and review everything I'm doing every quarter and just say, so for me, my why is to help other people see things they can't so that they can change their corner of the world. And the Periscope thing has been something that we've built off the back of that. But the, the thing that I do every quarter is I cheque in with what are the whats that I have. So a blog, one-on-one coaching, group coaching, a podcast. Do they still serve me in that there's something that I wanna do and I'm interested in doing? If so, cool. And then do they still serve my why? And then if so, cool. If not, then I'll seek to like change or pivot. I don't like the word pivot, but there we go. It's in everyone's vernacular at the moment. But like, can you change that up based on how you're feeling at the end of a quarter?

Tommy: It is unprecedented times, Pete. Feel free to use pivot.

Josh: Pivot. I mean, yeah, pivot is very much, I see the pushback because it's the same sort of pushback around the, Tiger King stuff, really. It's the mainstream, it's the obvious stuff.

Peter: Wishback is that pivot without purpose is pointless. So the point is you should pivot with purpose. You don't just pivot because everybody's pivoting. You pivot because you've sat there and thought, what was it that I was trying to do? What is it that I'm now trying to do? And does it require a pivot? So for me, I went through the process of reviewing everything that I do because everyone around me is like changing everything that they do.. And the realisation I had was I don't need to change anything because I've been working remotely and serving people through Zoom for years. So I don't need to pivot. But the tempting thing to do would just be to pivot because everybody else is pivoting.

Tommy: Yeah, I mean, it's confusing times. Like, if your business has gone to shit and your revenue significantly dropped, it would be a thought in your mind, I need to do something drastic to change. But yeah, I wonder, there might be people needing to ride it out. The job— this is the thing about the JobKeeper, um, is that you can potentially ride out what is going to be a shitstorm for 6 to 8 months, probably 12 months by the end of this. And so maybe you can come out the other side with not too much of a different operation, but obviously just sort of adapting along the way. But yeah, you're right, it's a good point that people sort of— you see, and I think it's noisy because people in marketing and people in, you know, social media marketing are talking about helping businesses that are in that disaster mode, have lost the revenue. And so it is, there is confusion in this time. What else do you think is a big confusing piece of dialogue or, you know, rhetoric going around at the moment in these unprecedented times where a lot of people are pivoting?

Peter: That's a very good question. I think one thing that's interesting that Jen pointed out to me, which I thought was really neat, was people still wanna pay to solve problems. So the point of buying something is usually to solve a problem. And people still wanna pay to solve problems. But the point is everyone's problems are now changed. So if we're still trying to solve old problems and get people to pay for them, then we're probably not gonna succeed because people don't have those problems anymore so they don't wanna pay for them. So if we can pause, I mean, you and I and everyone in this call has joked and spoken a lot about what's it for and Seth Godin and always asking that question. Like now more than ever has that question become more relevant because now it's like, what is this for? What is the problem that we're trying to solve? I bet it's probably different to the problem we were trying to solve 3 months ago. So what does it look like to solve that problem now? I think again there's too many cases where people are trying to solve the same problem they were solving 3 months ago but just do it through Zoom, and it just doesn't work.

Josh: So what happens with something like the AFL, like football, that it's, you know, like it's solving a clear problem but they actually can't solve that problem? Where do you sit on— do you— do they find a new problem to solve? Is there even— or is there a different way of solving the same problem?

Peter: I think, you know, in a micro way, they're probably doing that. So if AFL was all about sport and entertainment, then how do you provide people sport and entertainment given the constraints that we have? You can't play, so you probably just show old games. You probably still have all of the footy shows which are still going. And they're still talking about things that are happening in the footy world, and their AFL Instagram accounts and the club Instagram accounts are playing old highlights because they're trying to entertain.

Josh: Is it interesting for you as someone who is a supporter of footy?

Peter: Yeah, I don't find it interesting at all, no, but I'm sure there are people that do.

Josh: And so what is the solution?

Tommy: I don't necessarily trust his opinion yet. Hasn't even seen Tiger King, one of the greatest docos, you know, just pushing back.

Josh: Turned on your TV in the past two weeks? Are you too busy having conversations, you prick?

Peter: I put on YouTube earlier, actually. I had YouTube on. What'd you watch? The Daily Talk Show, obviously.

Mason: Oh great, perfect.

Tommy: I caught up on your shit just before this too, so I know what you did.

Peter: What did you learn, TJ? What was your key takeaway?

Tommy: Mate, you have a nice— like, when did you redo your site?

Josh: That was like 6 months ago.

Peter: A little while ago.

Tommy: Yeah, it looks great though. No, I'm sure I've checked it. I'm sure I checked it last time you were on. Which may have been the time that you've changed it, but I just liked it. It's— I like the video of you looking down the barrel talking about your coaching one-on-one stuff. I just like it, Pete. Since we've met you, mate, I think it's, um, you're offering just like what you— what you've done and what you've cemented yourself in doing is, is, um, very commendable, mate. It's great.

Peter: Thanks, man. I appreciate that.

Tommy: No worries. I always feel calm. It's you, Craig. There is a calming nature. Seth Godin. I feel better after talking with you. And I think it's just the vibration that gets my heart going when you start speaking. It's just, mm.

Josh: Oh, on to heart rate. How's your Whoop since being in iso?

Peter: It's interesting. We had a little isolation walk this morning, Josh and I, 2 metres apart. And my Whoop was pretty happy with that 'cause I haven't done a great deal of long walking.

Josh: And so what's the Whoop saying? Is your heart rate changed? Is your sleeping changed?

Peter: What's interesting is my Whoop is saying there's a fair bit of anxiety in the air. Like, it's noticing that my heart rate has spiked, my heart rate variability has gone down, and both of those things correlate to more stress. And so really, what I have—

Josh: variability going down means that you're more stressed? I would have assumed that higher variability of heart rate would So you want high—

Peter: no, you, you want high variability with a low heart rate, resting heart rate.

Josh: Interesting.

Peter: Yeah, at the moment I've, I've had a bit of the opposite. Yeah, the fitter you are. And so, Sevs, to answer your question, that's the thing I've learned. My sleep has been pretty good, but my recovery scores haven't reflected good sleep because heart rate's been higher, heart rate variability has been lower, which means anxiety, stress. And I think that's probably just because of the time.

Tommy: There's nothing like falling in love to get your heart pumping, buddy.

Peter: You know what I mean?

Josh: Is there anything that's changed, Pete, in regards to like what you care about and like being in a relationship? Anything? It's just any perspective shift?

Peter: I mean, plenty, plenty. I think that I was, I was pretty comfortable and content and happy with the life I was living, and then you learn that you can become more happy, more content, and have more fun when you meet someone that you enjoy spending time with and building a relationship with. So it's kind of just taking everything that was already good and making it even better, and that's been really cool. And I've seen that with, you know, with you guys and your relationships, and now Seb and Grace. And so now it's just, it's cool to have that as well.

Tommy: All right, if, if Sebs can make it happen, anything's possible.

Josh: Yeah, it really does. I mean, it was really— Glossed over as a fucking pandemic. It's a lot of unlikely shit happening. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Tommy: I mean, we're looking for silver linings. We're looking for silver linings in this shit, and we've found one.

Peter: A love story. A real love story.

Tommy: Jesus.

Josh: I feel like definitely there's going to be films that are based around the whole pandemic stuff.

Tommy: Yeah, Pete won't watch them though. They'll be too good.

Peter: Too popular.

Tommy: Too pop culture, baby.

Josh: Yeah, it's very true. Pete, are you doing your labs, your learning labs?

Peter: Yep, so we're doing a monthly learning lab still through our podcast, The Long and the Short of It, which has been really fun. They're great.

Josh: And so you pick an episode and then do like a theme around it?

Peter: Yeah, so we pick an episode and the idea is we turn listening into learning. So we build a mini lab or workshop using Zoom and it goes for 60 minutes and we just sort of run them once a month to our listeners. And so we've run 2 now We had 40-odd at the first one and 30-something at the second one. And yeah, they've been awesome.

Tommy: How do you get amongst it?

Peter: They're on the website, thelongandtheshortpodcast.com. You can find out everything you need there. Thanks for the plug.

Tommy: No worries.

Josh: Thank you, Pete. You've made our day. Now, Gawain, are you gonna have dinner with Tracy, or what's the plan?

Peter: No, we had dinner last night, so I think tonight might just be a do-your-own-thing kind of situation. And then we'll—

Josh: okay, you're doing like one day on, one day off type of thing? Is that the—

Peter: not really, but I think that's just how it'll play out today.

Tommy: Okay, what a different time, Josh. What a different relationship. Imagine if that was tonight. Yeah, still my own thing.

Josh: You've got the tent, TJ. It's very similar.

Tommy: True.

Josh: Just you and your peachy coloured shorts down. Just, I'm just going to go for a walk down in Heidelberg.

Tommy: Oh my God, never again, boys. That was confronting.

Mason: How long did that exclusive take, Josh, just quickly?

Josh: That, that— to create it?

Mason: Not to create and run it across.

Josh: Well, because the other thing too was I had—

Tommy: quicker than you sealing the deal with Josh, let's be honest.

Josh: No, I was, um, no, I thought about it because I was like, I wonder if Pete's gonna be okay if I bring it up. I'm like, if I do it in a tasteful way, I think it'll be fine. And then if it backfires, I've got the exclusive graphic.

Peter: Yeah.

Josh: And so, um, I, I probably spent half an hour And I played it to George, and that's why George in the comments saying it took me a while to get to the gag, because to be honest, when I was going to play it way earlier, but I panicked just because I was like, I just, I was nervous about the whole thing. And so that fucked me.

Mason: But anyway, Shannon's just said, um, Pete has calmed me right down this afternoon. Had a rubbish day, but I feel quite soothed after listening to Pete.

Josh: Well, that's nice. She also says Pete momentarily has the same mid-forehead vein that Mason gets when you grill him about Grace, which is— is it prominent now? Yeah, you got a bit of it.

Peter: It's the last— from all that, all the benching.

Josh: It's a Daily Talk Show. Thanks, Pete.

Peter: Thanks for having me, guys. See you later.

Josh: Catch you. Have a good one.