The Transition To Remote Work

Josh: It's The Daily Talk Show, episode 644.

Tommy: What's happening, guys? Happy Saturday. Ah, it's Saturday evening. It's a bit different from yesterday's show. Less faces.

Josh: Yeah, it was. I loved yesterday's show. It was very overwhelming at the start.

Tommy: Yeah, I think it was. It's an overwhelming time and we did an overwhelming thing. My son has just woken up and you may hear him crying in the background. But do you remember when you would nap and wake up and be really upset? Did you? Do you remember that, Josh? You seem to remember everything from 40 years ago.

Josh: No, I don't remember that. I feel like I didn't nap.

Tommy: You didn't nap?

Mason: You would have napped, surely.

Josh: No, I don't think I did.

Tommy: Surely.

Mason: No nap, JoJo.

Tommy: Why didn't you nap?

Josh: I just, I can't remember. I feel like I've always just slept. Normal hours.

Tommy: Just at night. Came out, just working 9 to 5.

Josh: You're sick, hey? I was real dialled in. Yeah, no, I actually don't remember it. One thing I do remember though is just when my parents had friends over and I would, you know, you would hear them, you know, you'd hear the sounds of clinking glasses and stuff like that. You'd sort of go down stairs or wherever.

Tommy: Don't you remember being— what about this one then? Like so tired, like in pain. Like, I think when you're younger, it was like staying up even till like 9, 9:30. I remember being out with my parents for dinner, or that's, you know, a family friend's house, especially my cousins. It was always my cousin's place, and I'd be so tired. I'd feel just ill. Do you know?

Josh: No.

Tommy: Or is that just now?

Josh: No, I do remember like when you'd go to people's houses and then the idea of leaving was very traumatic. You didn't want to leave. It's like, no, 5 more minutes, 5 more minutes.

Tommy: That's Bodhi's thing, 5 more minutes. And then all the kids at daycare, they know, they're all like, 5 minutes. They must all just— they've got— let's tell them it's 5 minutes. I just had a win before, guys. Went for a drive, 20K of petrol left, and petrol sort of spiked up at the start of the week. It was very low and it's jumped up to like nearly $1.60. And I was like, held off for 3 petrol stations, got to one, $1.15. Boom.

Mason: Great.

Josh: Taking zero road bumps. Isn't there huge differences currently in the petrol depending on where you go?

Tommy: Yeah, well, it should be. I think it was United in, where's Deakin, near Deakin University, Burwood. United Burwood. I mean, by the time you're listening to this, it's probably Too late, we're all gone.

Josh: In isolation, I feel like it's a good opportunity to pick up things that we've once forgotten about.

Tommy: I mean, I've got a lot of admin in my mind that I want to get through next week.

Josh: What are 3 things? What are you wanting to do?

Tommy: I need to dial in our assets spreadsheet incorporating all the gear we've bought this week.

Josh: For liquidators?

Tommy: Yeah, for the liquidators. I need to Basecamp, bring in a bunch of sort of links and information.

Josh: And we're going to use Basecamp.

Tommy: Yeah, I think we definitely do. Okay, we can probably leave it on hold until we get back from— get back from—

Josh: I guess we could use it for some of these bigger projects that we're taking on.

Tommy: I definitely think so. Then the other one is my house. I want to get— I want to throw out shit and I want to have more space. I could potentially have the garage. I've got a lot of exercise equipment still that I could maybe just sort of dust off and create a bit of a workout zone because there's no gym memberships going. My gym membership actually finishes— luckily I cancelled it— finishes in about a week's time at Fitness First. And I didn't sign up to the new gym that I was telling you guys about.

Josh: That's good. That worked out well. Sèb, what about you? What admin have you got planned?

Mason: A bunch of internet admin. I have my NBN installed today. It was actually the bloke who came and installed it. He was an absolute legend.

Josh: What's his name?

Mason: Why are you looking it up? Because I have his contact in my phone just in case. His name's Hai.

Tommy: What would you be more excited about? Tully coming over to watch Netflix or your NBN being installed?

Mason: I mean, NBN being installed until you plug in the the router.

Josh: You need an NBN to play. If he's got fast NBN, it means that he can FaceTime with Grace. Yeah, exactly.

Mason: We can stream Netflix and—

Josh: Oh, that's a good idea. That would be fun to do a Zoom and have one of the inputs as Netflix. So you could Netflix and chill on Zoom.

Tommy: Yeah, well, there's been a lot of Zoom parties happening. You've seen Instagram— sorry, Facebook. I've seen a bunch of photos. My sister-in-law, she was just walking around the house with her laptop and there was probably 4 or 5 people on a Zoom party for Friday night.

Josh: Oh really? Well, every time you say a laptop, I straight away think of an iMac. Yeah, that was, that was a classic YouTube channel trailer for us for a long time.

Tommy: Yeah, I think also I brought home a bunch of my hard drives. So, I have access to old stuff and I was thinking, I'm just going to start travel vlogging from home, posting old videos. I could be the leading travel blogger.

Josh: Is it a bit insensitive if sort of your great times in Europe whilst Europe, you know, thousands of people are dying?

Tommy: How's me in Italy?

Josh: How's me here?

Tommy: Oh, dude, Dr. Christian. Do you know who he is?

Josh: No.

Mason: No.

Tommy: Dr. Christian is from Embarrassing Bodies.

Josh: Oh yeah, yeah.

Tommy: My favorite. So Embarrassing Bodies, that show, it's just like people coming in with really sort of fucked up medical conditions. One guy came in, is my favourite episode. I got obsessed with this show. Dr. Christian, I think it was Dr. Christian, basically looked at his asshole and because he came in and said it's leaking, there's something going on. Nightmare. His response after he gave him a thorough examination, I think it was Dr. Christian, said, you need to revisit your wiping technique. This bloke had no issue. He just didn't wipe his ass properly and he thought his ass was leaking. Anyway, that's Dr. Christian.

Josh: Why did you bring that up?

Tommy: Dr. Christian got in a lot of trouble for tweeting about Italy. And I want to find this tweet. Hang on, Dr. Christian, because I was on his Instagram at about 3:00, 4:00 AM this morning. Uh, I woke up, Bodhi woke me up.

Josh: What did he want?

Tommy: Uh, Bodhi, Bodhi just, um, he pissed himself and got into our bed. Um, tweet, Dr. Christian tweet.

Josh: You need to dial in your autofocus.

Mason: I know, I just, I just saw it then.

Tommy: Whose?

Josh: Uh, the camera doesn't see Seb as a person, so it's—

Tommy: yeah, he's a robot.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: So he says Italy using coronavirus as an excuse to stop working and siesta.

Josh: Oh, Jesus.

Tommy: So he said that and people have just ripped him apart. And I like, in one sense, it's like, is it him being funny? Well, I don't think it's him being malicious. I could only assume it's him trying to sort of like point out that they just are pretty relaxed, which the Italians—

Josh: Is it a joke or is it a, or is it sort of a bit sort of, you know, well, as in, I think he's joking, saying it in a joking manner. I mean, you're the joke guy. Is it a joke, mate? They—

Tommy: yeah, I don't say I'm funny though.

Mason: I mean, we did, we put up a snippet, say, of you saying, yeah, it was the one time I fucking—

Tommy: I, I'd say it as a joke, but Josh actually says that he's like funny. I'm actually funny. Remember how you were telling me once you were like, no, I'm funny.

Mason: I mean, you've done a stand-up bit, Josh, at the studio.

Josh: Yeah, yeah, there's no doubt that I'm funny, but it's— I like that you, um, sort of align yourself with being funny.

Tommy: I don't, but, um, Dr. Christian definitely missed the mark there according to the Italians. And it's all these Italian people writing into his Twitter account. Think about Don't fuck with the Italians that are all at home on Twitter.

Josh: They've got time at the moment.

Tommy: You're getting cancelled for that, Josh.

Josh: Well, that's fine to say. Seriously, they've got time, don't they? Yeah.

Tommy: I mean, look at people's— imagine what screen time would be up. Let's just do a quick screen round of screen time, can we?

Josh: Okay, great. So if you want to play at home, go into your settings, put it on Insta Stories and tag us up so we can see what your screen time has been like.

Tommy: I'll screenshot my screen time.

Josh: So screen time.

Tommy: And what do we want? A daily average for the last week? What do we want?

Josh: Daily average. Yep.

Tommy: See all activity. Week.

Mason: Week.

Tommy: So you go week, which then gives you daily average. Do you want me to start?

Mason: Yeah, you start.

Tommy: 6 hours and 43 minutes.

Josh: Oh, you go, Seb.

Mason: 6 hours and 27 minutes.

Josh: Oh, guess what? I'm in the middle. 6 hours and 36 minutes.

Mason: Really?

Josh: How many hours on Instagram for you guys?

Tommy: I'll go 8 hours and 58 minutes.

Josh: Is that for the week?

Tommy: That's for a week. Yeah.

Josh: Okay.

Tommy: What are you?

Mason: 13 and a half hours. Yeah.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: 16 hours, 38 minutes. Well, I am on Insta. So what's your top app then?

Tommy: My top app is Instagram.

Josh: Followed by what?

Tommy: Yeah, so this is the one that's never been in there, but it has made it in there. Instagram, Facebook, YouTube, Safari, Spark, news.com.au.

Josh: I got the app.

Tommy: No, no, it's Safari. No, it just comes up with like a website that has been most viewed. I didn't even know it did that.

Josh: That's troubling.

Mason: I've got 60 minutes on theverge.com.

Josh: That's a lot of time on tech. What's happening in tech, Seb, like during something like the crisis that we're experiencing, what happens to tech?

Mason: I mean, there's— I mean, The Verge is doing a lot of stuff on the, um, just throwbacks. No, they're actually doing a lot of stuff on like the virus and stuff. Apple just released a new, uh, iPad, I think, and an iPad with a keyboard, which looks sick.

Josh: Um, is that just a laptop at that point?

Mason: Yeah, I mean, pretty much, but it's like, it's like a floating screen when you put the iPad on the, um, so it's got a stand.

Josh: It's an iPad with the stand and a keyboard.

Mason: Yeah, it's great though. Anyway, but there's also been like PS5 and Xbox— I don't know what they're calling it— Xbox X or something like that, X1 specs announced, which is—

Josh: well, this is— so Microsoft has released a new—

Mason: no, no, they've just released the specs for it, and Sony have released the PlayStation specs as well, and they're coming later this year, I think. Or next year.

Tommy: I mean, all the, um, the dry— the, uh, the great launches that would have been planned for last week or this week or even in the coming weeks, hard time to launch anything really.

Josh: Yeah. And so, um, if you guys had to pick one sort of game to get into during this time, it could be on any console, PC, what would you be playing?

Tommy: Mm, I've made— I've—

Josh: would it be sport? Would it be racing cars? Would it be—

Tommy: nah, nah.

Josh: Grand Theft Auto?

Tommy: God, I haven't played any of them. I've got no interest. Grand Theft Auto, yeah, I used to like playing when I was stoned, but that was when I was 16, 17. So I don't know. Um, oh, what if I see my brother play one of those sort of like, um, The ones that you're— I don't know what is around. Like, I literally— those games that used to sort of— you can spend weeks and weeks sort of travelling through some sort of, sort of scenery. I don't know, something where you can— yeah, I don't know, not just a shoot-'em-up game, something with a bit more storey to it. I never know what exists. What is that?

Josh: I don't know. Seb, what's your game?

Mason: I mean, I used to love playing the, the racing games on PlayStation. I literally have one of the steering wheels and the gears and the pedals, and they used to have these 12-hour races. And so you'd do like 3-hour stints and it'd be the same track, you're just going around and around, and then you'd pause it and then come back a couple hours later and do another 4 hours until you get to 12 hours. It's pretty outrageous. I'd probably do that again.

Josh: What do we think of the idea of doing a midweek Sims Session.

Tommy: Oh, absolutely not.

Josh: Jesus, this isn't like Sims.

Tommy: Any— no, Sims are horrible.

Josh: Why? I love Sims.

Tommy: Boring.

Josh: Yeah. Do you remember there was like a Lego game which was awesome? Remember playing that? There was another— this, you can go on YouTube and just search up all these games and watch the gameplay, and there's a— it's from like 1992, I think it's, um, Mother Goose on MS-DOS. Sick.

Mason: I think VIP Gronkh Lucy, she loves playing Sims 4 as well.

Josh: Does she? Oh great. Maybe I, maybe I could get— is it, is it something multiplayer? Yeah, that's what I'm trying to work out. Sims 4, surely nowadays in 2020 Sims is multiplayer.

Tommy: The, the problem with any of these games, I feel like it's so— it's not productive. Like, I've— I mean, and maybe this will shift in this current time, right, where people do have more time indoors where they're like, what am I doing? What do I do?

Josh: What does it mean to be productive?

Tommy: Well, I think it's like adding to progressing. Is football—

Josh: is watching football productive?

Tommy: Uh, no, not necessarily. But it's— what I'm saying is, for me, I haven't liked playing them now because I'm like, I could be doing something that is helping me move forward, educate. It's like you only reading self-help books is because you don't have time for the bullshit. You don't have time for the make-believe. And so that same mindset is like, I think what I've been in where I'm like, that's me wasting so much time. But I think what I'm saying is maybe it's going to shift based on everyone staying indoors, like having so much more time on your hands.

Josh: Well, the bearded friend's getting into it. He's currently playing Far Cry 4 on PS4. What is Far Cry?

Mason: I used to play Far Cry 3 on PC. It's pretty cool. Like, great.

Josh: What is it? Is it like shooting?

Mason: I mean, from what I remember, you're on like an island and you're just trying to get around and you're fighting baddies and stuff.

Josh: Baddies?

Tommy: Yeah, they're bullies.

Josh: Baddies. Alright, well, my bit of admin. Bri actually brought it up.

Tommy: Oh, so this is the one bit of admin that you're going to tackle? Because you've got this. I mean, you still got to work, Josh. We're not working— we're working remote. We're not going to work.

Josh: I mean, it's going to change a lot, right? Like, it is like the work— the work is going to change. It's a lot of— it's a type of work that's very much like project. Like, we're going to have our specific things we're going to work on, but it's definitely going to be different. I think that one of the important things around this time is being able to with the change of scenery, change of everything, it's a good time to like reassess everything that you do.

Tommy: Well, I think it's a reset. So I think how many people are caught in a sort of show, you know, get up, breakfast, straight to work at the desk, do nothing for an hour. They just sort of weeding through emails. That's— I think the feeling I have is there is a reset. Where I do feel somewhat productive at home doing this. And so it's like a jarring— I don't think I would ever have pushed to work remote like this if it wasn't for something like this going on in the world. And I don't— and I'm not seeing it as a bad thing, as in the working from home.

Josh: I think it's perfect. If you think about— think about when we did our first Zoom call, coronavirus wasn't really a massive— like when we were having that and we're trialling that, That was just before, like, yeah, there had been all the stuff in China, but I felt like it hadn't really been a conversation around Italy at that point.

Tommy: Man, I mean, how different is the conversation over a week and a half?

Josh: I sort of got my way, didn't I? I really wanted to work from home and now here I am.

Tommy: It's, as I've said to a few people, we're all on the same playing field, so it doesn't feel like we're alone, just sort of. And if we just did this normally and just all of a sudden got up and left, you could, you could not justify it.

Josh: And so that's like, I am very excited. I hope that it's really, um, uh, like we, we don't see the deaths and all that sort of shit, obviously, that they're sort of predicting. But I think that the reset on all of these things, the reset on like when you hear, when you even hear like the government speaking, they're having to speak in a way that is about society and people and human, and because the economy is fucked and they know that people are what drive the economy. And so I think it's an interesting time that I hope that at the end of it, things like working from home, it's not novel anymore. It's just something that everyone can do. And, um, but even re-looking at, at every job and saying, okay, like, like, this is actually really important. And, yeah, those people—

Tommy: we're getting thrusted into the freelance economy at a— like, for people needing to be able to be at home freelance, they might work for 4 different businesses from home. And so that their day looks like getting up and half day I spend with this company, half day I spend with that company. Like That is the— that is going to happen.

Josh: And a huge amount of redundancies too. Like, even just in the last week and a half, from all around, like friends from all around the world, people in Melbourne, there's so much uncertainty around jobs. And what, what I, what I feel is that it's sort of— it's highlighting the thing that I've always felt, which is being employed isn't really secure. It's actually, it's a false security. And I think that there's a lot of people who may have not done the thing that they wanted to do because they wanted to do the more secure thing. And now they're sort of forced into a position or a complete relook at what it means to be secure.

Tommy: I was hearing Rogan talk about how you even think like, oh yeah, this If you say 2 months ago, 3 months ago, before December, even, it's like, this is our normal. It's like we don't, we don't know what our consistent is based, based on it not having enough time. Like 100 years ago, we've got it so good now. We had it so good before this going on. Like, think about the luxury of just getting coffee on the weekend and just fucking getting coffee. Like, that may become an indulgent thing to drink coffee, a $5 latte. Like you saw the sort of media attention around these stupid little things that were outrageous, people pointing out the outrageous nature of it. I kind of see the point to that now. Dropping $6 and when you're making fucking nothing, $6 is a lot of money on a coffee. And so I mean, and that's where you go, Okay, I'm annoyed that I can't spend my $6 every single day, twice a day sometimes. But then there's the other side of going, I make coffee at home for like 40 cents and it's good. And so what, you know, that becomes the norm. And then you're like, that $6, I didn't want it. I don't want to fucking spend that now, which then shifts the mind. It shifts culture.

Josh: And it's also the economy stuff, right? That's why we're seeing huge shifts in regards to businesses, especially in hospitality, cafes, because we are all of a sudden, whether it's justified or not, we're all changing our spending.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: Wayne Peters was saying that he used to play V8 Supercars on PlayStation for hours on end. He also says redundancies suck. Been through it once before and I hope I don't have to go through it again. Well, hopefully, Wayne, if it does happen, you've got V8 Supercars on PlayStation.

Tommy: Hayden says, I think the initial fear of losing work was higher at the beginning. But we naturally adapt to the times, mate. I think I feel like Amy only today and a bit yesterday is where I was at last week with you, Josh. You and I are just fucking on the phone, mate. You got it, you got your beans, you got your fucking tutors, and I'm off at the shops. I think there's a— everyone is unique to where their level of, you know, real focus to what it means for them as an individual or how it's going to impact them. But there's a lot of lag, I think. Look at it. Look at all those gronks at Bondi Beach. Thousands. There would have been 5,000 people at that beach.

Mason: Yeah.

Tommy: I mean, where the fuck are they sleeping? What are they living in?

Mason: Yeah. Glenn from Florida was saying that they've just shut down the beaches and cafes and restaurants there now.

Tommy: Yeah. Good, but bad, but good.

Josh: Like, but then you also see the mates who were, you know, going to massive music events and shit like that who are now like fucking getting behind social isolation. It's like, mate, you're— yeah, yeah, I can be— for— it's great, you're 4 days late and you've fucking already spread it. You've killed, uh, 10 80-year-olds.

Tommy: Yeah. Um, who do you reckon out of the 3 of us is going to get it first?

Josh: Me, I think, annoyingly.

Tommy: But you're isolating.

Josh: Yeah, but I just think I probably already have it. I feel like it's in my spine. I don't know if it's possible, but my back hurts.

Mason: You're born with it just in your spine.

Josh: Yeah, I'm patient zero.

Tommy: What is it like herpes just living in your spine?

Josh: Yeah, exactly. So if you're watching the video, you can see that I've just pulled out a book. This is Marketing. This was the book that I promised that I would rewrite the whole thing.

Tommy: Sorry, you didn't just promise, like just saying that just sounds like you just said it out loud. I promise you told Seth Godin, you told the man who wrote the book.

Josh: Yeah, I emailed him.

Tommy: And he emailed you back. So, you know, he read it.

Josh: Yeah. So what I'm going to do is spend my time in isolation And I'm going to finish the book.

Tommy: Can we get you to clock your working hours? Because this is going to become—

Josh: What do you reckon? I mean, it's interesting though, because I mean, this is an interesting conversation around the work stuff because my whole thing is always around doing stuff, output. If you're not used to, if you're not used to the idea of working from home and sort of controlling your own time. Yeah, there are, there are Yeah, I think that you're very much this way, I think, around like ass on seat, you know, get in, you know, long, long hours being at the desk. Broke my back. Exactly. But I think that there is the reality of these things too, which is around balance and efficiency as well. Like if you're unhappy, if you're sitting, spending lots of time on your computer, What are you doing in that moment? And I think that for me, having spent huge amounts of hours from the age of 14 working from home, it's like you actually need a balance. You need to be able to— What are you smiling at, Seb?

Mason: I thought you were going to make a wanking joke.

Josh: No, no, no, no wanking jokes.

Mason: 14.

Josh: Yeah, yeah, definitely. But no, I think it is. I think that we need to be careful of the language around how we approach our colleagues and our friends around working.

Tommy: Because, so I think there's a key point in that there's a real shift. So you've been doing it for a long time and you're an exception in that you're a director of the business that we're in. So there is a lot of— I spoke to someone today, they said, I had someone work from home recently and they said that they were working from home and they spent 2 days doing zero. And so, and for me, I go, they're probably not used to working from home and they don't really, you know, you could easily be distracted. So there is a learning to work from home that needs to happen. And a change in management style to change management, but it's also changing time management for yourself. What about the person that you don't want to feel like, like you're working all the time? So the hours of, we'll jump on the first Zoom call at 9 and we'll have a sort of like sign-off at the end of the day. So, but then, then you're done. And so maybe that changes.

Josh: Maybe that also, like, you've got to consider that, uh, for a lot of people, their work has completely changed.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: So if they're used to You know, if you're in the events or hospo space or most industries, you're not calling the same clients every day. You're not having the same conversations. You're not putting in the orders. You're not receiving the deliveries. Like these things—

Tommy: so what you're talking about is like you can work on a picking line all day. You can work at a worksite all day and you can see the input you're that you're, that you're doing, and you can see the output from the input that you've put in for the day. When you're working from home, if you're not in a super skilled role or something that requires, you know, like a skill set, so a coder who is coding something or working on a— it's very specific and it makes sense to work from home. So when there is these new think about all the businesses that are going to accommodate people to try and transition to working from home.

Josh: And then you've got an industrial job. If you've got like a classic sort of traditional industrial job, that's going to be hard. Yeah, right now. I think of that potentially with everything that's happened, we'll look back and say, okay, we need to diversify our industries potentially. And if we're, you if one country ends up in lockdown, we need to make sure that we can, you know, look after ourselves as a country. And so I think potentially we'll end up seeing the government supporting those types of more sort of local manufacturing and things like that for certain things. Especially if you look at stuff like masks and some of those essential items that potentially, you know, we've got low amounts of at the moment.

Tommy: Yeah, I mean, one thing I agree with you on, definitely— not that I'm disagreeing with you— but is I think if even if it blew over tomorrow, I think I'd still move forward in what we're doing. Like, it makes a lot of sense to me because it's just seen how fragile— I think, Josh, your point of bums on seats. Like, I think that has made sense to me a lot. And when you end up having a business that requires bums on seats and people there and a life outside of work, it makes sense. But I think there is a new world that we're moving into, a new sort of existence, which, yeah, I'm loving it. Like, I think I'm doing— I'm jumping onto my computer early as I wake up, like 7 AM on my computer. And I can just jump on and actually do some work. I don't have to set shit up. I don't have to get to the office. It is nice. Like, I want this home setup at home all the time. It's just expensive.

Josh: Well, you've just gained, like, you've gained potentially 2 hours a day.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: In regards to, like, not having to do all the commuting and things like that.

Tommy: I mean, I'd maybe rather get up at, like, 5:30 and start at 5:45 and just punch out, you know, 2 hours of work and then spend the morning with Bodhi and Amy before, like, when we're back into normality, take him to daycare later, pick him up the same time, and then just, you know, have a bit more. Like, that makes sense.

Josh: Yeah, I think that the key is that if anyone, if you're a manager and you're unsure about what your employee's doing or you're not feeling comfortable you've got to ask yourself, are you defining the outputs? Are you being clear on what needs to be done every day? Because if you've defined, okay, these are the things that need to be done, this is the definition of done, and this is the due date, then it's very easy. You can say, hey, did this thing get done? If it didn't, then it's a conversation.

Tommy: But yeah, and is there hangover from the previous approach, which was in the building?

Josh: Well, yeah, I think that you could previously, as a manager, be pretty lazy with it and just look and say, oh yeah, the people are there. As long as they're at their desk, that's good enough. But I think that having worked at Envato, which was sort of leading the way in sort of future of work, they had to do a lot of work around defining what your outputs are. What do you— and so then it becomes up to you and you actually become more efficient because I reckon that the biggest con is the 8-hour working day. I think that, yeah, yeah, the, the average person probably spends 3 hours doing actual productive work. Like, I, I don't think that the majority of Australians are doing full days. That's— it's at least in sort of the creative, uh, field, I think.

Tommy: Well, if— hang on, if gone are the days of 9-to-5 jobs in the future, like that kind of what you associate with a 9-to-5— show up, fucking do your thing, leave, forget about work— there's a whole shift in, in people too about what they have to, you know, like, I think what you, what you think you're signing up for, and there's a lot of unlearning there for a lot of people, which is going to be hard, and the unlearning for the business. I think if the business can guide and the leaders can probably guide the people who are needing to unlearn, you know, it's, it's complex, dude.

Josh: I also think that we're at a point where we can actually define our own, our jobs. Hayden Dibb saying, what do you think has changed? Why are we in transitional period, virus out of the question, what's the shift in work culture?

Mason: Was the shift inevitable?

Josh: Yeah, I mean, I think that the virus has made people transition quicker, but obviously we were already, I believe, moving in that direction. But there are a bunch of consequences or negative effects to doing this type of thing. So the idea of being employed versus being a freelancer. If we look at what happened with the sharing economy, we look at Uber and all of the examples around, you know, Airtasker and things like that. It's like the government had to change the way that they regulated things because all of a sudden you could be getting paid not that much money, putting it basically being treated like a freelancer and then copping a tax bill at the end of the financial year because you just weren't prepared. So hopefully all of this starts to create new systems. But I think that the other thing too, TJ, around like defining your own job and your work is it's like Can work be fun? Can work be something that you are pumped to do? Because I think that some people have it in their minds that work isn't meant to be fun. And like for me, I spent all day today working on, you know, our next project with the Daily Talk Show. It's like it doesn't feel like work. But I think that it's also— we've got to consider that these are productive things that are going to move, move us forward.

Tommy: Yeah. Yeah, definitely. And so you Seth Godin book, you bring it up because you want to do something.

Josh: Yeah, I think I'll— I think I should in the isolation do a bit, you know, every day.

Mason: Well, Wayne says no excuses not to finish writing the book now, Josh.

Josh: Yeah. Thank you, Wayne.

Tommy: That's true.

Josh: I'm guessing Seth's not coming to Australia given, yeah, no, no non-Aussie residents can get into the country.

Mason: Yeah.

Tommy: Yeah. Yes. No exceptions for Seth.

Josh: No. All right.

Tommy: Oh yeah. Seth, you gonna, you gonna do any admin? You've your internet. You've done that though.

Mason: No, well, so I got a, I bought a real shit internet. Router from Officeworks, so I need to go buy a proper one.

Tommy: And did you— did a life hack get in the way? Like, did you try and go, oh, here's a cheapo, this will do?

Mason: Well, that's what— so yeah, I did. I skimped on getting—

Josh: it was a panic buy. It was the weirdest panic buy of all time. No, because I was stocking up on toilet paper and you bought a router.

Mason: No, I skimped on— I didn't click the I want to include a router with my NBN sign up, so I didn't get one from my internet provider.

Tommy: Yeah, because they were going to charge you extra fee or something, or?

Mason: Yeah, it's like whatever, $70 for one. I'm just like, oh yeah, mine.

Josh: But they also, they don't give you the best sort of hardware.

Tommy: Mate, seems all right on my end. I'm getting, you know, what they promised, nearly 50 up and down.

Josh: That's good.

Tommy: All right, just 40-something up. Um, one thing I am pumped about is the Gronk Squad and just, you know, we're all sort of in it together and this place can be somewhere where we can all get together and the podcast is bringing us together in this time, which is great. We've got a lot of gronks on the livestream right now on YouTube. We're doing this most days for the show, which we're probably going to do it every day, livestream to YouTube. Jordan Michaelides, the coronavirus denier, is here. Welcome, buddy.

Josh: What do you have to say? Can we get a snippet, Sev's? I can post it. From January? Yeah, we could just classic predictions. Yeah, our favourite prediction of the year.

Mason: Real Garrett V prediction.

Josh: That's very funny.

Tommy: We love you, Jordan. We're just fucking with you.

Josh: Yeah, thedailytalkshow.com/gronks if you want to be a part of anything that we're doing, whether it's the book club, life hack club, the adventure club, or our Friday night virtual drinks, which we'll be doing again next week at dailytalkshow.com/gronks.

Tommy: Genuinely, if we can help you, I think, yeah, reach out. I think I said to you, Josh and I were speaking before, Mason, and I said, this is like, it's not the time to be reaching out to try and drum up business. I read this somewhere. I was like, fucking so true. The last thing you want to do is contacting people saying, can you pay me some money to do something for you? Let's just like, what can we— how can we help other people in this time, or for at least one week, and then we'll get into business.

Josh: Yeah, then we'll get over it.

Tommy: No, but seriously, I think it's lead with what can I bring value— how can I bring value to other people around me?

Josh: I think in life that's just the way to go, right?

Tommy: Especially in times of feeling like you want to resort to, how can I help myself here? So when that is the feeling, which I think most of us are feeling right now, we're fucked, I'm fucked, Amy's job's fucked, my job's fucked, like all that shit, you could just go down a spiral and your mind starts thinking about, what can I do to help me right now?. So I think if you flipped it on its head, I think there's some power in it.

Josh: How's the 4-screen Netflix going? Are you happy with that? That's almost like the PlayStation purchase for me.

Tommy: Oh, I didn't even know about it. Well, Craig Harper, I gave our login to Netflix like 3, 2 years ago. I think he still uses it. I got to get confirmation.

Josh: Really? You need to get harveys from him or something.

Tommy: Absolutely not. He's done more for me than I, than I could ever do for him. And so I'll pay for his Netflix for life.

Josh: Oh, great. We're looking after his Spotify as well. Where do you sort of draw the line?

Tommy: Well, Amy's— Amy has— I don't even have a login to Spotify. Amy just logged in on my phone, so I don't know the login. I'd give it to Craig though.

Josh: Yeah, it's a Daily Talk Show. Hi@thedailytalkshow.com is the email address. Also, uh, You can listen on all the podcast apps. If you enjoy the show, leave us a review on Apple Podcasts. If you're wanting to do something fun, maybe join us in on a live stream, you can do that at youtube.com/thedailytalkshow. Otherwise, see you tomorrow, guys.

Tommy: See you guys.