Pause Fest, Melbourne Bounce & YouTube With Cam Shand

Cam: The Daily Talk Show.

Josh: It's The Daily Talk Show, episode 602.

Tommy: It's weekend bound and we've got Cam Shan in the building.

Cam: G'day guys, thanks for having me.

Josh: All the way from Bendigo.

Tommy: Yeah, mate, great, great to meet you. I feel like I know you.

Cam: Yeah, me too. I've listened to so many episodes, it's weird to be here in person.

Tommy: Well, I watch your YouTube channels and, um, your YouTube channels.

Cam: I've had a few channels.

Tommy: All right guys, it's, uh, it's Friday when we're recording this.

Josh: Um, And you're on the beer.

Tommy: You're a big unit. I like it. I actually appreciate when people are like, oh, you guys are so much bigger than I thought. For some reason it just—

Josh: you look smaller. You thought he was smaller on—

Tommy: well, you never know, but you've only been listening to us instead of watching our videos. And us too, we've been watching your stuff. So it's nice to meet you in person, and you're a big unit.

Cam: Yeah, thanks guys.

Josh: Yeah, uh, and you also do great content.

Cam: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, thanks. Yeah, yeah, I try to, um, put in as much effort as I can each week or a couple of weeks.

Tommy: So yeah, you, you've— what I've appreciated, you've been really consistent the last, what, 6 months, you reckon?

Cam: Yeah, last 6 months for sure. Yeah.

Josh: Well, you won a RØDE award. So RØDE do their RØDE Reel. Is that what it's called?

Cam: Yeah, my RØDE Reel every year. So it's— I don't think it's just in Australia. I think they say it is the biggest prize pool short film competition. It's over $1 million in prizes was this year from sponsors. So it's not just RØDE, it's like a huge huge resource, Blackmagic Design, Australian company, heaps of other guys. And yeah, I took out one of their major categories in the short film competition.

Josh: Congratulations.

Tommy: Shit, yeah, dude. How good does it feel winning something?

Cam: It's insane. And it was such a payoff. I think that video was over 30 hours, probably almost 30, 40 hours of work. And I was just like, I was loving it.

Josh: It was a 3, so describe what the video was.

Cam: Yeah, all right. So it was in the virtual reality category, so VR category. I messaged, emailed them. I was like, does it have to be a 360 video or can I just like make something about virtual reality? And they're like, no, it needs to be like that bubble you put on a headset, you watch it. And I was like, cool, I don't have one of those cameras. So I hit one of my mates that does like VFX works, borrowed one of his cameras, taught myself like editing it and mixing ambisonics audio, which is like that, like when you, when you turn your head, the audio follows you in that bubble. So I was like, oh, I've got to like go all out like I do with, I guess, most of my video projects, trying to take it as good as possible. And yeah, so I'd like come to this video. So it was a tour of my YouTube studio, but to add the extra flair, uh, ends up with like 3 of me in the room having a conversation with myself talking about the, the parts of the room. So, um, love it. The whole thing was like, it needs to be immersive and all of that. Um, and then I did the behind-the-scenes breakdown, which actually took out the major category, which, which I thought I had no shot, like no hope, because it was like people are shooting on REDs. Like, this is like a proper like category because it's, it's like they've got proper DPs that they bring in for their shoots. These shoots are teams of like 10, 20, like, like it's a, it's a big, um, yeah, category.

Tommy: We spoke about RED cameras before and we said that RED cameras won't solve your business model and it also won't win you the Rogue competition.

Cam: Well, clearly that will. I love it.

Josh: So you're in Melbourne, you attended Paws Fest?

Cam: Yes.

Josh: First time?

Cam: Yes, Paws Fest 2020. Came as a creator. I was very, very lucky.

Tommy: And so what is it? Because did you speak at that or no?

Josh: No, I've attended a few times before back in the day. It's been, it sort of was trying to do the whole South by Southwest in Melbourne.

Tommy: Why do you think South by Southwest have just started calling it South By? Like it's just, they've just dropped one of the West.

Josh: Yeah, I think when you call South by, you can do it. Just Madonna.

Cam: It's like when you say Madonna first name.

Tommy: Yeah.

Cam: You don't say like if they're famous, you don't say the last name.

Tommy: South by, we got lazy. We don't say the two other words.

Josh: I say SF instead of San Francisco, which is a bit wanky.

Tommy: And then you're just a non-local, not cool in America because they don't call it San Fran.

Josh: Correct. And so Cam, so pause. Yeah, what's the deal?

Cam: Um, did you want to know about the ticket? Like, because I said creator. Oh yeah, what's that? Yeah, so they have three levels of tickets, um, Creator, Leader, Explorer. I think— I can't remember which one's like the top tier, but it varies in price. And if you get in like really early, it's like half the price. So I went for $80. Which was like super cool because it's normally like 1,200, I think 1,200 or more. Um, there's like 1,500 by the end of it. Um, if you're wanting to do the Explorer one, you also got like access to workshops and like other things if you paid for the higher tier. Um, but the Creator is like, you've got to be a startup, um, and you have to apply for it. So my application was like, I want to get into like more of this 360, like VR content creation, augmented reality. Um, and a lot of the talks and stuff were about that, and some of the attendees were going to be in that industry, in that field. So yeah, I just like put up my little application and they shot back saying, yeah, you get it. And I was like, sick, $80.

Tommy: You're a winner.

Cam: $80, that's awesome. So I was like, yeah, I'm going.

Tommy: Dude, I don't know if there's a market for people to spend $1,500 here in Australia for tickets.

Cam: I couldn't afford it.

Tommy: I would never spend it.

Josh: Yeah, I think it's like, it's for those corporates or whatever who it's like, it's got education budget.

Tommy: That makes sense.

Josh: And you have a couple of grand a year to spend and it's like, I'm gonna, you know, spend it on that.

Tommy: But the first thing to go when the economy shits itself is people dropping $1,500 for a gronk in their team to go and spend 3 days off work. So what does it cost you at the end of it? $1,500 plus accommodation, $200 each day for salaries.

Josh: Yeah, but think about like government agencies and stuff.

Tommy: Let's say $10,000 a week. Yeah, per staff member, per DMs.

Josh: It's— I think that like they price it because when I went to South By South by Southwest. Yeah, right. No, it was—

Tommy: is that in San Fran or—

Josh: no, no, it's in Austin. No, no, no, they— it was like $1,200 a ticket or whatever US. It was like super expensive. But I guess it's for a certain— if from an industry point of view, you know, it's for industry people. But I think it's great that Paws are obviously having the different sort of tiers so that other people can go in.

Tommy: If our company's big enough and we're paying for our staff to go, show me this video and just—

Josh: What do you mean?

Tommy: That I'm sort of eating my words, that I'm saying, why would you ever spend? Because I hope that, like, it makes sense if your business is big enough and we're putting our employees through to go to South by Southwest, we're paying for them. I hope they fucking— If you're there right now, I hope you're enjoying it.

Cam: Yeah, it's a networking opportunity. Like, they pitch that, like, heavily, especially for those tiers. So for those tiers, if you're, like, an investor um, if you buy like the top tier, whatever it is, you get access to the deck of like all the startups they're attending, what they do, who they are, what funding they're like maybe chasing as well. Um, so when you apply as a creator ticket, like you can also like tick and say like I want to like try and get funding and I want to like do the pitch stand-ups and all of that. Um, so the, the, I guess the 3 days, the people that haven't, I guess, heard of Pause Fest before, um, they, they run It's pretty much, yeah, technology. They call it the technology, like, South by Southwest of Australia. Um, so they run different, like, uh, I want to say seminars, but it's just talks, uh, people from, like, industry. So we had, like, Disney was there, Netflix was there, um, Google had, like, heaps of people in their Google team was there, Sony. Like, it was just, like, big industry, like, players coming, um, either breaking down what they're planning to do, um, for the next, like, couple years in, like, the tech space, or what they have been doing. And like, and also just like people talking about cool shit that they've done.

Tommy: What is, um, what was the good takeaway? Like, I think when you hear Netflix and Google people from there telling you, like, I could disconnect. I get a bit excited from that. But what are you hearing? It is a buzz.

Cam: Hey, I was like, I was expecting for those ones to be like, I'm going to take away something really good, but I took more away from just the random Joe dude that I've never heard of before that was talking on a topic that I liked. I think because they're a bit more open I guess like they're going to give away like they're not hiding behind a corporate thing. And it's also like it is polished but not as polished. Yeah, they're just like really good talkers. But I really like Blackmagic Design's stuff. I guess I use their cinema camera for my YouTube videos and Grant did his talk and he's—

Tommy: he's the founder, right?

Cam: Yeah, he's great.

Tommy: Grant, we want you on the show, dude.

Cam: He's a cool guy. I said hi to him afterwards. I literally like everyone's in line. This is— I don't know how this will come across, but everyone's like, find out, trying to get something from him, I guess. Like, that's the thing, like afterwards, like you can go talk to the person, but they're like, hey, I want you to sponsor this, or hey, I want like that type thing.

Tommy: Not the place to ask somebody, to be honest.

Cam: Yeah, yeah. I was just like, I just want to improve the ticket cost. Yeah, yeah, that's the entry fee. Yeah, they're paying just to get to talk to you. I talked, I was like, hey dude, like love what you're doing, um, like your talk was really good, it was inspiring, like hearing how you build your your business and stuff. And like, that was it. Just walked out. I was like, cool. Like, I was like, I don't want anything from him. I just want to like say like, good work. Because he covered like, it was really good. He's talking about if you're starting a business and like the drive and passion you have to have behind what you're doing, not for money and how it will build. And one of his storeys was that he was at like a conference that had like a 6 by 6 meter, like, you know, little booth and all their tech. They were making capture cards back in the day. That's how they started. They found like a market. There was like, like really just crappy support for the film industry, for indie filmmakers, smaller media houses. So they were like, oh, let's make capture cards. Um, and you're talking about, he's like showing off all their tech and he's got holes in his shoes. He's walking around and he's like sent like one of these employees to go buy him like new insoles because he's like running the money because he's like, I don't want greedy investors coming onto the business and turning us into like a for-profit, like we just want to like make money and change everything. Um, so his talk was really good because he was like talking about, you know, if you love the business and you want it to be your passion project and like, and do well, um, you know, get people in that are like in the industry as well and passionate about what you're trying to do. Don't just go in and get an investor that has like heaps of money and they're then going to try and skew it and change it.

Tommy: I think it's a hard piece of information to swallow in terms of you get inspired to do something because you love it and then you do it and then the reality sets in about having to make some kind of money, and then you want to buy new gear or buy, you know, buy this or that. And so then you can shift your focus to it being about money. But there is— I get the sentiment around doing something you love and then you be rewarded on the other side, you know. And so I, I just find it is like a constant juggle of those two things because trying to make money and that being the pure goal is kind of serving a need of the individual, not the how can I give you value and how is this about you, not just me, you know?

Josh: Well, it also feels like, like, I guess from that investor perspective, like, there are going to be people who are passionate and have money, yeah, like, who are willing to make that bet. And so I think that that's part of it too, is it's like just finding the right person. And the right person isn't necessarily the one that's got the most amount of money. How do you measure success with the stuff that you're doing at the moment, say with YouTube and trying to grow that?

Cam: Right. Um, yeah, interesting one.

Josh: I—

Cam: it's hard to like not look at analytics, I guess. Like, that's the— like, if you're a creator, um, to like try and not look at, at that number. Um, I don't look at as like a subscriber or likes number. I just look at the, the growth, I guess, um, and retention rates. That's like, this is my success. So at the moment it's like 30% growth each month, so it compounds. Um, so it's like, I guess, like becoming quite a steeper, like, growth curve. Um, so that means like, all right, I'm doing something right, like I'm doing okay with that. Um, but then on the, the bigger scale, it is like I was talking to you beforehand, like building relationships with brands. Um, like, I don't know, it's like some of my friends will throw around the term like shill, but it's like, oh, you're like— if like a lot of influencers are shills, they're like, oh, I'm gonna push this thing for this company. Um, and I'm like, yeah, I'm very conscious of like not trying to get into bed with a brand that I don't believe in or I don't like their stuff. But I really respect like brands that work with people in the field to like allow them to build a following but also serve a purpose, I guess, for advertising their stuff. So yeah, the more that I work and build relationships with brands, that's how I at the moment am calling success.

Josh: Buying things secondhand. You're quite good at, you're quite good at this.

Cam: I love it. I'm a bargain. Aus bargain. Yeah, great.

Tommy: What's your best purchase? What's your favourite when it goes on special or something?

Cam: Um, so my best— like, best buy I've actually done was Officeworks pricing error. Uh, it was a tablet. Yeah, it was like— this is like when I was in uni, so like 4 or 5 years ago. Um, tablet was meant to be like one— oh shit, they got the numbers the wrong way around, so it was like, like 2 grand cheaper than it should have been. And they were like, they're like, oh, that's what this— the thing says, so you get it. So I got it, used it for like 3 years, broke the screen, chucked it on eBay, made $500 on my initial buy.

Josh: So good.

Cam: Oh, that's a real one. Flipping stuff.

Josh: So selling— I've got heaps of stuff I need to sell that I've used. I want to sell it on. What's— what do I— like, what are the tips? Do I show— use eBay, Facebook Marketplace?

Cam: Um, yeah, eBay is good if you can get the free listings. So like, you can make a new account, they'll give you 10 free listings. Um, so that means they don't take their 10% cut.

Josh: People are going to say, like, if I was to put a camera or something, it is— yeah, is it going to just like go in a few days, or could it be on there for months?

Tommy: Do you put bidding on, like, or is that done?

Cam: Yeah, it depends on your pricing. Um, you can do Buy It Now with a make an offer, or you can do bidding with a make an offer. Um, so yeah, sometimes I'll just be like, chuck it on for the, um, Buy It Now, put the make an offer on there. The issue though is if you are doing the new account to try and get like some free listing, um, stuff, uh, you got no history. No history. And people will be like, this is a scam. They're like zero, zero, you know, feedback.

Josh: But what is the cut? Like, if you're selling something decent, what's the cost anyway?

Cam: Well, it seems like a fee, isn't it? 9%, 98%.

Josh: Really?

Cam: So if you're like— dude, I was— so I was a DJ for a couple years. Um, that was like my job.

Tommy: What was your name?

Cam: DJ Shanders. Yeah, the boys— oh, the guys still bring it up.

Tommy: Did you hit some clubs in Bendigo?

Cam: Bendigo? Yeah. Yeah, some of the clubs.

Josh: Yeah, you still have the decal on your car. That's why they call you that.

Cam: Yeah, I had it on my car, my P-plate Camry. I had a little like decal on the back back. I was loving it.

Josh: Um, CDs?

Cam: Uh, no, I think I did a couple mixtapes, but it was more so like— it was SoundCloud. SoundCloud was the thing.

Josh: What do you mean? You just played SoundCloud at the venues?

Cam: Oh, as in how I mixed it? Yeah, sorry. CDs? Yeah, so CDs with CDJs. We had some couple of 1000 Mark IIIs.

Tommy: Um, they took USB.

Josh: What did you say? 1000 Mark IIIs? What, a 1000 Mark III?

Tommy: It's the type of—

Cam: yeah, CDJ Pioneer. Um, Compact Disc Jockey, there's a model. And then they went from having like you could do an SD card or a CD to then like the 2000 Nexus or like the later line with USB CD, CDJ-1000. Yeah, 1000.

Tommy: That was like, I didn't even, I didn't even own them, but my mates were talking about it. So you've got 1000s.

Josh: So was it the hardware then? Yes.

Tommy: Yeah.

Cam: So hardware. So it's a platter, it's like a unit and then you have your mixer.

Josh: Yeah. I just, I didn't know that there was a very specific model that everyone was using.

Tommy: It was a real popular version. It'll be like a C200.

Josh: So would you plug it into— would you plug it into a computer?

Cam: No, mixer. So the computers were MIDI controllers. Um, and oh, so my first time learning to DJ, I was really lucky. I knew a girl that worked at the club, and I was getting into it. I had a music background, like I've learned piano, learned guitar, so like I picked it up quite quick. And I'm like an IT professional, so like the computer side of learning the ins and outs of software is pretty quick for me. So I was like, this is pretty cool. And within like 3 months, I was like offered to go to a set in the club.

Tommy: What club was it in Bendigo?

Cam: This is Universal, Universal Nightclub.

Josh: Um, sounds legit.

Cam: Uni night, like, yeah, uni's like the nickname. And yeah, it was like where the uni students would go Tuesday, Thursday nights. Um, so I rock up and I've got my laptop, my MIDI controller, because I didn't know how to use CDJs. I couldn't afford them, I didn't have anyone that had them. So I'm just like to the resident DJ, guys, uh, DJ Roscoe, he's super nice guy, he's this older guy, he's just like He's the night owl. He's always there just mixing like all night till like till the lights come on. And it's scary when the lights come on at the end of the night. And I'm just like, dude, I don't know how to use that stuff. Can you make this plug into that? And he's just like, oh yeah, okay. So he like takes my line out from my mixer and puts it into the club. I do my set and I leave. And from that, the club owner was like really nice and was like, all right, you can come in and practise on our CDJs if you want.

Josh: From that, how do you practise DJing?

Cam: Um, so there's this like interesting thing. People are like, you just press play, right? That's the, that's the common— I guess what I hear is the common, um, people's presumption of, of a disc jockey in the digital age, uh, because there is sync options.

Tommy: Dude, you've got no beat, Josh, and you could DJ. Yeah, you see Q, Q, Q, and then it'll find the beat. Like, it's, it's not even easier. My brother's got something called a Traktor. Yeah, and my bro has gone from vinyl to CDJ-1000s. He had those, and now he's got this thing. It literally has a line down the middle, and you see the beat with the waveform, and you see it when it hits the beat, and it always aligns with this middle bit, right? You can press sync, it will align the next track to the moment it hits that beat. And so you can hit it, it will speed it up. Sorry, it'll speed it up. It's for effect. Hit it, speeds it up for effect. It was a light one, and you can hear it in your can, and then you just go vroom and you drop it in and you DJ. And so it's like, it's the cheap way, literally. But then the Traktor though, like, you can actually drop out so many of the bass. There's a bit more control. It's like, and so yeah, it's a weird one because people that would have gone, ah, turn your eye, turn your nose up at it, it's now like, it's now just offering something.

Cam: What do you think, Cam?, in this using—

Josh: well, yeah, what's it— what Tommy's describing.

Cam: So that's legit. They push back.

Tommy: Yeah, yeah.

Cam: So pushback would be because people using that, it isn't— yeah, you're not actually doing—

Josh: what is the craft version though? What's the— what's the— if you're a crafts person and you care, what does that look like?

Cam: Yeah, so you're, um, like tapping the cue button, which is like when you hold the cue button, it will like start playing the song. Once you let go, it goes back to where it was queued before you press the button.. So you've got to scratch with the platter. Um, like say you've got to like pretend you've got like a vinyl. So it's mimicking the old technology. Yeah. So you're scratching through, you're finding like the part of the song we want to bring it in. If you've got an extended mix, a lot of club remixes will have 30 seconds or a minute of like literally just beats. So it's like the kick and the hi-hats and then like the bit of the sub will come in. And that's when DJs start to actually like mix the, the tracks coming in. So you're like, all right, I've got a 15-second window, I'm going to just scratch through to 45 seconds. I know that a minute, that's when I'm gonna like cut into the next song. So you just start tapping away with the cue button, but you've got to like hit play yourself. If you're off a little bit, then use the side of the CDJ platter. It doesn't actually like scratch, it will like allow you to just like nudge it forwards and back a little bit, get the sweet spot, and then like then your beats are aligned. That's granted the BPM is matched, and that's where the next part of DJing comes in. If you're using sync, it matches the BPM. That is like how many obviously beats per minute are in it. And there's that like Zac Efron movie where he's like 128 BPMs, like the rate of the human heart or something. It's like the trailer, and it got like just absolutely hammered by like every DJ. Yeah, yeah, because it was just like, that's like the sweet spot. Um, that's just like EDM, so that's like the most common, 128. That's really easy to memorise because like pretty much every verse or segment of the song is 15 seconds, so you're gonna have 4 in every minute.

Josh: So what's your favourite beat per minute?

Cam: Oh, it's around there, like the 128, 130, just because that's what EDM sits in, and that's what was the music. Melbourne bounce was the biggest thing back when I was DJing.

Josh: What's Melbourne bounce?

Cam: Oh, yous are in Melbourne. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Josh: What is it? What is it?

Cam: It's just like the kick. It's, uh, it's like the, it's the kick bass, but the offbeat bass is usually like a really like aggressive, sore synth. Um, and it was just like—

Josh: so in Bendigo you called it the Melbourne beat, and there was the Melbourne shuffle. We just called it the beat here.

Tommy: No, it was called French onion soup.

Cam: Onion soup. As you know, it was that. It was the category. If you went online, people overseas were searching it. It was called Melbourne band. Really? So Will Sparks, and like, like he's a prodigy, but like he like rose from that, that, um, I guess the genre that they all crafted. But it goes way back, orchestrated, like there's heaps of like older DJs that started this, um, this style. Um, but then yeah, well, like Sparks, he just like took off. Um, Joe Fletcher, like these guys like had songs like Savage was on, um, some of their tracks. So like it just started getting this like world presence because like people were just loving it. Like it was something new. It is good.

Tommy: It's like, it's, it's so conducive to nightclubs and yeah, raves, like festivals and shit.

Cam: I think it also took off really well because it is that 128 BPM, so it is easier to mix.

Tommy: Yeah.

Cam: So people like that wanted to— there's a lot of like, not canning like every DJ, but there's DJs that have like different levels of skill. So if you're just starting out, this is the— like, that's easy to start out on. That's what you want to start out on. So, um, it probably also helped.

Josh: I'm more of a 75 beats per minute guy.

Cam: Going down into the hip-hops there.

Josh: Yeah, it's just easier to mix, obviously.

Tommy: On your what? CD what?

Josh: CD-1000.

Cam: Yeah.

Josh: What mark? 3.4.

Tommy: It's interesting because the DJ stuff is similar to the camera stuff. So people that used turntables would have frowned upon CDJs and things like that when they started. But then like you look at someone like Moby or any of these old school DJs, they now use CDJs like they're going to some nightclub they've never been. They can't be fucking taking their thing. And then it's the progression.

Josh: So film is like, yeah, people are getting medium format digital and things like that.

Tommy: You're using a C200 versus some fucking expensive old camera.

Cam: Yeah.

Tommy: So yeah, it is. How much do you focus on the gear versus what you're actually creating with the gear specific to filmmaking?

Cam: I feel like it's a bit less because the quality aspect's not there. So filmmaking, it's like you're chasing the RED or the full frame because you know that like there's an inherent benefit because of like the, like the higher sensor, like 4K or whatever. Like the filmmaking, there's like the, the— like the tiers are right there. Um, with the DJing, it's like once you kind of got a good mixer, like you— I guess you could do more effects the next tiers up. But you could still DJ well with the lower. And like the audio coming out, like the, the, um, the DACs and stuff built into like the units, like everything's still high quality audio. So you can still like create good stuff. And like what I learned on, you can like use a laptop, grab a $400 controller, and still mix and have all the effects because the computer's doing the processing. Um, that's just unreliable. That's why people use Macs. That's the whole like DJs often have a Mac, they're running Serato or something, because it's like not gonna— it's just, it's like less gonna crash. Yeah, I've been DJing like house parties and events, um, like I did like weddings and stuff, um, and it's like, it's such a— like you just sweat bullets if you're using a Windows laptop.

Josh: Really?

Cam: Like, I love Windows, I'm a Windows user like through and through, but, um, audio, it doesn't do audio well.

Tommy: They said Steve Jobs knew how to fucking party.

Josh: 128, baby. IT professional, you describe yourself yourself before.

Cam: Yeah, that's my job, that's my career.

Tommy: Yeah, so you've got a job?

Cam: Yes.

Tommy: Yeah, I thought YouTube was a job, to be honest.

Cam: Oh, thank you.

Tommy: Yeah, that's a compliment.

Cam: I was gonna put so much— uh, such a modern day compliment— putting into it, isn't it?

Tommy: And so I did see— I did— sorry, I did see you say that you film videos at like 5 AM. You animal.

Cam: Yes, 5 AM. Uh, I've— I— so that is when the increase of, uh, output obviously rose, um, about 6 months ago, probably longer now, it's been almost a year. Um, I was like trying to do stuff after like work. I was feeling like more burnt out at that point because like you'd just been through like the whole day, like 9 to 5 job.

Tommy: Try being in here. Yeah, doing anything when you get—

Cam: nah, I'm joking. And 97's over there, he's a workhorse.

Tommy: He's actually 24-hour support for this business. He works 24 hours.

Josh: I'd love to see you with like a headset to be able to take calls. Yeah, we should make that happen.

Cam: But yes, I was just like What's your IT professional, by the way? Yeah, what's— oh, so I manage computers at a university, um, with like 3,000 assets under me and another guy. Um, so it's hardware replacement, software managing. Um, so like an academic will say, hey, I want this piece of software in this computer lab to teach, and then we like make that happen, I guess.

Josh: And so there is that cliché that IT professionals can be, uh, quite difficult in regards to like, you know, you put through a request, they're like, yeah, I'll make that happen maybe next year or whatever.

Cam: Yeah, it really depends on the workplace, I think.

Josh: I think. Yeah. Are you guys pretty good?

Cam: Yeah, I would say, to be honest, they're pretty good. We have people like— when you get like— I used to work on the service desk, so I did that for a couple years, um, and you'll get academics that come in and they'll call up and they'll get the help and they're just like— they've just started from somewhere else and they're like, whoa, like, you fix that then? I'm like, yeah.

Josh: What sort of software are they at? What's the weirdest— what's the weirdest type of software they've wanted to install?

Tommy: On this site called, um, I don't know.

Josh: Like, it's like, is there real niche, niche software that like an academic—

Cam: I learned so much stuff. Oh no, he says—

Tommy: no, he's just— that's the fire alarm. Hi, Sam's here.

Josh: He's got heartburn.

Cam: I learned, and this came out at like the perfect time. So we're building our house and we had a tree where we wanted to put our driveway, and it's super annoying. Estates these days, they go like, here's all the blocks, and they just like plop trees randomly down the street. And if any listeners like dealt with this, you know, like the pain that it takes to try and get either in your settlement or with the council to move a tree. And I was on the call installing the software for this guy, and he's in this piece of software that shows you where every single tree is everywhere, how old it is from their surveying data and what type of tree it is, where its root system will be. Everywhere? It's like everywhere.

Josh: It's like Google Maps for trees.

Cam: It's just Google Maps for trees. And it's like, who's logging that data? Insane. It's like the people, I guess, work for the council, like other people. I don't know. And I was just like, Shit, I better not cut down this tree.

Josh: How much is that?

Cam: Because I know where it is.

Josh: Sorry, how much is that software license?

Cam: I have no idea.

Josh: Could we get it as just an everyday consumer?

Cam: It probably costs money. There's like, you know, like how the coronavirus is going around, there's ArcGIS. ArcGIS. Have you seen that? No. That dashboard? So some university in America. So ArcGIS, I never knew what it did. We just always like just install this stuff. That's the crazy thing. Like I've learned how like X-ray dental software works and all these things. Like I could probably do an X-ray on someone. Not like, how are we going to do it? There's a show, but like, you learn, you learn like the ins and outs of these things because you have to catch so much. But, um, yeah, this ArcGIS, this like piece of software, I was like, what does it do? And then I just like got linked to this thing from someone and they've like mapped the world. And it's like that game, the app, um, uh, another one, Pandemic, not Pandemic. Yeah, so come on, Plague Inc. on your phone. And it shows like on that game, like it's like where the virus is like spreading. This, this portal literally shows you like how many people are infected, where they are, like how many, um, deaths have there been, and where everything is for coronavirus. For coronavirus. And I was just like, damn, now I know what this software does. Like, it's like, like, it like patches into like the live.

Tommy: And so you're seeing— so you're having access to this?

Cam: Anyone can access to this because it was just like some private— I don't know if it's private link, but like a link that got like shared out that this university created. So like, obviously they use this piece of software to collect data geometrically, um, and like give you different like running totals of things.

Josh: Yeah, you're keeping like a tab of it?

Cam: Yeah, I've got it like bookmarked at work and it's scary. It's just like that movie, that movie, um, Contagion, talking about like every day how much it like grows. Um, and you watch this thing and it shows you like, because it maps it every single day and it shows you the spike and the curve is just exponential.

Tommy: Seen the zombie movie with Brad Pitt?

Cam: Which was—

Tommy: oh well, uh, it was sick, wasn't it? Yeah, like it's similar, sort of an outbreak. Um, so you— so the 5 AM stuff? Yeah, yes.

Cam: So I decided to go— I was like, all right, I need to, to up my production, um, output and I guess, yeah, just kind of get, get the ball rolling. 5 AM. So I was like, I'm gonna start getting up at 5 AM each morning. And it took time, it took like probably 2 months to dial back from being like an 8 AM waker with like 10 minutes from work. So I can just jump in the car. It's like Bendigo problems. Yeah, shower, jump in the car, go to work. Um, so I was like, let's dial it back. So I slowly, like, 15 minutes, like, each week. And that's what I suggested to people at home. Like, I've watched— I watched a few things, um, on, like, you know, how to, like, self— um, you know, just, just do this stuff by yourself. And they're like, don't go cold turkey on it, you'll get sick. I remember one night I was out at, um, a party. It was like a business, like, celebrating party, someone. And I was like, I want to be committed and get up at 5 AM. And I was like sick for like the next week. Oh, because you got up at 5 AM? And I was like, I didn't respect my like body and like giving it the rest that it needed.

Tommy: You said you don't drink though?

Cam: I don't drink.

Tommy: Did you— have you drank in the past?

Cam: No. And that was a weird thing being a DJ. You get like, um, like drinks, like an unlimited bar. Yeah.

Tommy: And like drink cards.

Cam: My mates loved me from that because you'd share it.

Tommy: Um, I, uh, there's a mattress here. I didn't tell you, I slept at the office last night.

Cam: I saw that.

Josh: Oh really?

Tommy: You saw the mattress, you didn't see me sleeping?

Cam: I was just like creeping through the window.

Josh: Did you know this, Sebs?

Tommy: No, you must have. I left at 8, just before 8. Yeah, I came in about 8:45. My marriage is all good, guys, just if you wanted to know.

Cam: Well, I don't know, I saw Bruce die.

Tommy: Jesus, uh, no, no, no, I came in last night because the thing about having a young child and one car and not wanting— and being a tight-ass, not wanting to get an Uber— is that I wanted to come in super early to start on some work that I needed to do.

Cam: 5 AM, boy?

Tommy: It was earlier. Oh, actually I started at 5.

Josh: So I saw you on the security camera at like early 5:15 or something like that.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: And so I was like, oh, he's got any—

Tommy: no, I was like 8:45 and I was like, um, Amy, can you drive me into the office? But he'd be just gone down to bed. Oh no, we took Bodhi with us.

Josh: So just before he went to bed, did you change the storey because you realised that you'd left Bodhi at home?

Tommy: No, Amy's sister was at home and I said, no, no, I don't want to— let's not worry her about— because he gets up at night. He gets up when he's going to bed, he starts coming out 10 times. Anyway, so Amy dropped me in and I stayed here, but I got up at like 4:30.

Josh: What was it like staying at the office?

Tommy: It was pretty noisy, actually.

Josh: Really?

Tommy: Air trains, and then a garbage fucking truck about 2 AM. It was crazy. And then the, you know, the, the, um, restaurant next door. And then, but then in the morning it was pretty fine. But the first train's at like 4:45. And so anyway, that's, uh, explains the mattress. It explains the mattress.

Josh: On the tree, on that tree thing with the estate, were you saying that you— so you, you moved into a new estate?

Cam: Yes.

Josh: What's the deal with your internet?

Cam: MBN? Yeah, fibre to the premise.

Josh: To the premise? Yeah.

Tommy: What is that, 50 up and down?

Cam: No, 100.

Tommy: That's good. You're paying 40 a little bit.

Cam: Yeah, but the extra, um, what's the fastest you can get?

Josh: 100?

Cam: Yeah, hit the 100. I get like 98 or 90. You can have like, obviously packet drop, so it's not gonna be like the full bandwidth, but you do get 4 Uni-ID ports, so you can have theoretically, if you bridge it, 400 down. Really? Like I know. Do you think you ever do it?

Josh: No.

Cam: Or if you're like running your own servers, I guess. I don't know if like with the legalities behind it, but you could, you know, take a NAS and host your own like web servers on a different port. So then it's separated from your home network and you just pay the fee.

Tommy: So we don't worry about that. We got Ventura IP hosting. Yeah. And so are you wanting to—

Josh: they're not an ISP.

Tommy: You've got to— no, not an ISP, but yeah, the hosting bit. They can host it. Are you wanting to do more video production as a— because I see your stuff, you do, you've got quality of someone who could have a video production company that does just that. But then you also—

Cam: I started down that route, um, probably end of last year, mid last year I started going into that. Um, and then I was like, uh, I can do it, but I was finding like the challenge or like the creativity in that. Um, I was like, I want something extra. So when I do that 360 video, I was like, this is really cool. So that's why I guess it was a pause first to try and like link it up with other VR creators. Um, I want to kind of learn that, that world, uh, so I continue to do what I'm already doing, um, but then try and, I guess, produce for businesses or, um, like, I guess, a content in immersive content creation. So move into that because that's like the future, I guess, you know, like in 10 years' time, um, we're all watching stuff on our phones, uh, it's gonna change. Everyone's gonna have a VR headset.

Josh: So, you know, you reckon, you reckon that's gonna the way it's gonna go?

Cam: Yeah, the, the it's all about accessibility. So like 5 years ago, virtual reality, you needed a gaming PC, you know, like a $3,000 PC, $1,500 headset. Today it's already a $650 standalone unit for 6 depth of field, which means you can walk around a room, you don't need any computer, you don't need any lighthouses. So like once you're bringing down the accessibility, now Grandma's going to buy it for little Jimmy at Christmas time and he's going to be like living on it. He's going to show his friends, they're going to get it.

Tommy: Yeah, little Jimmy's the junkie they call him.

Cam: And this stuff just like always in the realm, booms from that. I guess that's where it's coming from.

Josh: Do you think from a user experience point of view, is it something that you can do for a decent portion of time without things like eye strain?

Cam: Um, yeah, interesting.

Tommy: I did the, uh, uh, what's it called, 72-hour challenge.

Cam: Yeah, no, there's like a virtual reality thing in Melbourne, I'm blanking now on the name.

Tommy: Oh, the place?

Josh: Yeah, we got the flyer joint in Collingwood, or it's if you type in VR.

Tommy: Um, yeah, they Yeah, uh, Solid Effort dropping by.

Josh: Zero latency, that's it.

Tommy: That's it. I saw a guy with a t-shirt on around the corner.

Cam: Yeah, just around here. Um, so I did that, and afterwards, um, my eyes were a bit strained, but that was probably because, like, it's not your own headset, so you're not able to dial it perfectly in. Um, but that was like an hour of, like, very, like, high-intense focus, like, stuff. Like, you're really, like, looking for people and stuff. But if you're, like, a bit more chilled, um, at home, like Like one of my friends, he did like 4-hour stint, um, 4 or 6 hours afterwards. He's like, oh geez, am I back in the real world now? But like you can, you can do a longer session.

Tommy: I've got to bring my Oculus. I got bought an Oculus for my 30th.

Cam: Which is it?

Tommy: Go, go, go, go, go. Yeah, Oculus Go. Yeah, well I'll bring it in because then we can charge it up and just load up a unit.

Josh: I'll probably vomit.

Tommy: It is, it is a bit trippy. Remember playing with it? Yeah, I haven't played with it since we played with it about a year and a half ago. Thanks, Jules Lund. It was a great present. Would you buy it if I was selling it?

Cam: I buy it.

Tommy: Yeah, would you?

Cam: No, not the go. It's already older. Sorry, it's 3D.

Josh: Uh, Cam, uh, Cam Shand on YouTube.

Tommy: Yeah, we want to get you to 1,000 subs.

Cam: Oh dude, you're close, like 870. It, uh, Social Blade says by the end, uh, start of March.

Josh: Is Social Blade good? Should we sign up?

Cam: Um, it gives you projections. They use like their own AI to look at your current growth rates and then the stats of every other creator.

Tommy: But I'll tell you what, they couldn't predict my day of LA.

Cam: That's the one thing you look at, you're like, yeah, but what if I have one big vid?

Tommy: And what if Matt posted one?

Cam: The boys.

Tommy: It's very— no, I think we should, um, what's your YouTube handle?

Cam: Cam Shand.

Tommy: Yeah, youtube.com/camshand.

Cam: Yep.

Tommy: Check it, get him up, subscribe, do it, do it.

Josh: Yeah, I do.

Cam: Yeah, yeah, I've got the URL, got all the stuff. So you've got the domain camshand.com?

Tommy: Put it in the show notes too, please. Awesome.

Josh: That'd be great. That's the Daily Talk Show. If you enjoy the show, give us an Apple Podcast review. Definitely go cheque out Cam Shand on YouTube. You're doing amazing content. We're really enjoying watching that.

Tommy: Thanks, guys.

Josh: Otherwise, see you tomorrow, guys.

Tommy: See you guys.

Cam: See ya.