Campbell Walker, AKA Struthless

Campbell: The Daily Talk Show.

Tommy: It's The Daily Talk Show, episode 548.

Josh: We've got Campbell Walker in the building.

Tommy: Yes, Truthless69.

Campbell: May as well clap as well. Thank you for having me, fellas.

Josh: How are you, buddy?

Campbell: I'm just delightful here in Melbourne town. Flew over on a plane this morning, stepped off into your clear blue sky, which soon turned into a clear grey sky, which then turned into a dark grey sky, and now it's blue again.

Josh: I feel like I'm watching one of your videos. Where you're sort of like laying out the storey quite quickly into the beats.

Tommy: Yeah, yeah.

Josh: I first started following you, I reckon, a couple of years back. It was around the time where you made the video about how it's cheaper if you're planning on doing 5 bags of cocaine in Australia, you may as well fly to Mexico for the weekend.

Campbell: That was my first video to ever get a million views. That one, that one holds a place in my heart. But it also taught me that people really care a lot about both money and cocaine.

Josh: I just love it. It's clever because it's like it It makes so much sense. Have you found— has anyone actually done it?

Campbell: One guy claimed to have done it. He did slide into my DMs and he's like, cheque this, bro. And it's like he'd taken a photo of his computer screen and it was a plane ticket with the return date. So whether he did it or not, whether he even came back, you know, 5 bags, man.

Josh: Jesus.

Campbell: Who knows? Maybe it was a one-way ticket accidentally.

Josh: So yeah, so it's Friday you leave, you can get back to work Monday 8 AM and in that time have gone to Mexico.

Tommy: It's cheaper.

Campbell: And it's cheaper. Which is the incentive. So were you to be doing more than 5 bags here, did because obviously cocaine is— the price is quite inflated. Yeah, for the children out there who are looking to get into business. Uh, yeah, so it just kind of worked out.

Tommy: When you were a kid, were you always drawing?

Campbell: Like, yes, until I got sort of dismissed quite harshly by an art teacher, and then I took a 10-year hiatus.

Tommy: Really?

Josh: Until you realise that they're an art teacher?

Campbell: Yeah, that guy was like a fucking stoner with some shit car, and I took his word is gospel. Fuck you, Mr. McLachlan.

Tommy: Could you turn it— make a meme of him with his shit car?

Campbell: I would love that.

Tommy: Art teacher plus shit car equals bad advice.

Campbell: It was honestly like, oh man, it was a piece of shit car. I've seen more dented at Derby as fuck.

Tommy: Yeah. And so then, um, because you've got a very specific aesthetic, sort of this, uh, how would you— how would you describe it?

Campbell: Because I like my illustration aesthetic. Oh, it's kind of childish, I would say. Um, very colorful, uh, detailed without looking detailed at first, which I love. And it looks effortless even though it isn't. Um, but yeah, it looks like something which I don't think would be out of place in a children's book, which is why I like putting in jokes that would be out of place in children's books with them.

Josh: I love it. So the— so your 10-year hiatus, why do you How do you come back? What did someone give you some words of inspo?

Campbell: Almost. I was living in a house with housemates, as one does. And one of them was really, really into drawing. And it was just a classic stoner house where you just stay home and do, you know, just your little things here and there. And he would always just get and smoke bongs and just start drawing. And I was like, oh, you look like you're having fun. So I'd sit next to him and just copy him, which at first was really fun. And he was kind of flattered because, you know, when somebody does like an impression of you at the pub and you're like, That was crazy.

Tommy: Let's do it again.

Campbell: Come on, do it again, please.

Josh: Yeah.

Campbell: You know, and there's kind of like this like self-indulgent side to it. So I think he kind of liked seeing his drawings done by someone who was a bit shit. And then I remember one day we were there and I went to draw like I was just doing the normal thing. I was just kind of copying the way that he drew. And I remember he just goes, bro, stop fucking doing that. And I was like, all right, maybe I'm onto something.

Josh: The stoner brought you back to life.

Tommy: It does remind me of Junkie Joel's mate.

Josh: There's a guy.

Tommy: There's a guy. There's a guy at the front, Pedo Pete. No, there's a Junkie Joel who's fucking like, they're always doing heroin out the front.

Josh: He's always chasing.

Tommy: But, um, it's actually true. Yeah, but this is all true. But his, um, his mate, because Joel gets a bit fucking aggro, but his mate will shoot up and then he has a pen and paper and he just draws, just quietly sort of does that.

Campbell: At least it's that. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, because there's a lot of worse things you could be doing on drugs.

Tommy: Punching up people.

Josh: People, hitting people. Were you into graffiti when you were young?

Campbell: Um, not so much. I mean, I was into vandalizing, I guess. Not necessarily in an artistic way.

Josh: Yeah, well, I think it's, um, like, I remember I used to hang out with crews that would be vandalized. Yeah, the Graffiti Crew.

Campbell: And a 3, and maybe a dollar sign, I don't know.

Josh: But I think it's like super young, right? Well, you're not needing to make any money, it doesn't really matter. You're just fucking scrapping a few dollars together.

Campbell: You just want to break shit. Yeah, and getting $1 pizza.

Tommy: You've really read him well.

Josh: But that's what it was like, right? So you see the progression with those kind of people where they actually need a job. And so it's really hard to make it as an artist. And I feel like you've found this thing where it's— you're essentially what a real artist is, and you've found different avenues to put your work out into the world. Like, do you think it wouldn't have happened like your Instagram and the brand if it wasn't for the illustration? Or do you think you would have come in through your video style stuff?

Tommy: Or—

Campbell: I think the illustration helped because I wasn't good at it at first, and I think that kind of, uh, lowered the barrier to entry. Or maybe it gave me an excuse that I didn't need to be that good to be producing stuff en masse. I don't know if that makes sense, but there were things that I was sort of better at. I think at the time I was a better musician and I think I was too precious about music because I knew that I could play instruments.

Tommy: What instruments do you play?

Campbell: Oh, a bunch. Back— I'm way, way worse now. But at the time I played, you know, guitar, piano, trumpet, a little bit of everything.

Tommy: That's cool.

Campbell: Muso boy stuff.

Josh: Yeah. I mean, what it sounds like is like for artists, they're trying to find something that sticks and some people are like transfixed on being a canvas painter. And it might not stick for them.

Campbell: And so, well, the advice that I got— so at around about that same time, I was working for this guy in his art studio. I didn't even really have dreams of being an artist or anything like that. I was just working at his studio, and he was a sculptor, a guy named Mark Shatner, who— I don't know if you've ever seen— they're really quite, uh, they're both artistic but also very commercial, what they put out, which is these beautiful sculptures of like Adonis, like Lenny Riefenstahl type photo bodies, you know, just these gorgeous bodies, but they've got dog and rabbit heads. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Josh: You see, and Sydney.

Campbell: They're around. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Sydney.

Josh: Double Bay.

Campbell: Yes, yes, they're from Double Bay.

Josh: Yeah.

Campbell: So I was working in his studio and I remember one day I think I was complaining, which is often what young men do.

Josh: And young artists.

Campbell: Yes, young artists. Oh man, I'll grow into that title one day, like my dog with his ears. So I was there and I was just whinging and he's like, you know what your problem is? One day you'll write a song, the next day you'll write some freaking poem no one's ever gonna read, then you're gonna draw a picture that sucks, and then you're going to write a song again, and none of it builds. He's like, you know what you need to do is just do the exact same thing every single day. Not unlike what you guys are doing, I guess. Yeah. And he's like, if you do that— because he's like, art isn't about creativity, it's about a brand in somebody else's head. Which is such a cynical way of saying it, but in my idealistic brain, I don't think I'd seen it that way. And to see him from the perspective of a guy who had a studio and all this money and all these artworks, I was like, oh shit, yeah, you know what, you're the authority here, I'm gonna listen to you on that.

Josh: And so what does it mean to you? Like, elaborate on that.

Campbell: Or do one thing?

Josh: Or on that, the brand, what his advice to you?

Campbell: Oh, I took it very literally. So I guess at the same time I was sort of— I mean, everyone who is— everybody who I like is into some form of experimentation. Or self-experimentation, however you want to put it. Um, so I was like, yeah, like Junkie Joe. Yeah, 30-day challenge gone wrong. Um, sorry if you are struggling with drug addiction, this isn't shaming you. But, um, yeah, so I was like, oh well, maybe I'll experiment with just doing the exact same thing. And he's like, why don't you just pick an image? And why don't you pick a medium? I'll pick the medium for you— drawing— because you, you need to get better at that. And so I'm like, all right, got it. And he's like, now just pick an image and draw it every single day. So I was walking home through Hyde Park and there were just heaps of ibises around. And I was like, you know what? I'm just going to take his advice and just draw ibises for a year and just reassess after that.

Josh: Skyrats, otherwise known as.

Campbell: Otherwise known as.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: So they're those, you know, these long beaked birds. They're quite big.

Tommy: I assumed they were flowers.

Campbell: I'm glad that you were out there. Skyrats, like bin chickens.

Josh: Yeah, bin chickens. Bin chickens.

Tommy: And so wait, you spent a year drawing them.

Campbell: Yes.

Tommy: Every day?

Campbell: Every day. Multiple times a day.

Tommy: And so what were you using, like pen and paper?

Campbell: Because, you know, I was using everything because, you know, you—

Tommy: it feels like the very, uh, popular thing to do nowadays is to buy an iPad and then say you're Streethless69. Like, I think that people see the types of stuff and under, um, appreciate how much effort or talent is actually involved, uh Is the— so were you using all different types of stuff?

Campbell: Yeah, I guess because I had an image, so I started, I started to understand what he meant about consistency and how consistency actually creates a creative career as opposed to just being creative. So I think that the thing that I was missing was focus, and the image gave me the focus. So I sort of experimented a little bit around with, you know, was I drawing, was I painting? At one point I remember, you know, those armour beads that you put in the white things that poke up and then you get baking paper and iron them.

Josh: Oh, yeah, yeah.

Campbell: Old school, remember?

Tommy: Old school. Yeah.

Josh: It's the ironer. And Mr. 97 told a story, or one of us did, where someone put them into water and they dissolved and then someone drank it.

Campbell: And then they, yeah, like, this is, yeah, had it like a psychedelic effect or something.

Josh: Something happened. It was, yeah, it's chunky jaw.

Tommy: And so you did, and so you did, uh, this every single day. Do you end up with a portfolio or something?

Campbell: Yeah, well, this was the start of my I guess, life on the internet, because I start putting them up just on Instagram. And after a few months or even just a month, it was quite quick. I realised that constantly drawing the same picture was really boring, which I think is a pretty, pretty guessable conclusion. So, I was like, okay, how can I make this slightly more interesting? And so, I started adding jokes to this one ibis character. And then I was like, huh, I can make these jokes whatever I want as long as I keep the ibis the same. It's going to start looking like a comic strip. And then I was like, oh, that's kind of cool. And then got to this point where I think the ibis got in the way of the jokes. The jokes became such a focal point that the ibis felt like it was obscuring it and just making it, oh, what's that weird surreal element there? I don't know if I like that. So I took that out. Replaced it with humans, kept the jokes. And what I realised is that the consistency of putting— of doing the exact same thing every day leads you to where you are going to be. So you can't start out with, say, a brand or some identity of what you want. The, the work leads to that, as opposed to the other way around.

Tommy: What about the platform? How much— like, so putting it on Instagram, what does that do?

Campbell: Um, I honestly was just because it was visual. Yeah, that was That was literally it. It was such a, such a non-thought-out thing.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: And so was it something where— because I guess there'd be a lot of people trying to reverse engineer it. It's like, I'm going to start an Instagram account, I'm going to post, and I'll hashtag, and I'll do all that sort of stuff. Did you actually see the platform— like, would people be engaging with, with it throughout the year?

Campbell: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. And I did use hashtags at first, and they were all kind of just goofy ones, you know, they weren't whatever. But I guess that got people. But honestly, as a mechanic, I didn't really— I don't— I've never really seen its value. Um, maybe to collate or search some weird shit, but other than that, yeah, I don't think that particular one helped. Getting reposted, definitely. I started seeing traction when I would do something that was maybe relevant to something, and then everybody would be like, oh shoot, and then I would go around the internet and then all these people be like, oh, who did that? And because I never signed any of the works either, which maybe I didn't want to because I didn't think they were good enough. And I felt like seeing a signature next to a shit cartoon is, is kind of like laughing at your own joke. Yeah, it's like just taking yourself real seriously. And I was like, oh, just not about that. And so I probably lost heaps of stuff on maybe overthinking. But mostly I guess it was just when the content was good, it would just get reposted because there's an image, you know, it's not like there's that much effort. Like reposting a video is kind of hard. Better picture.

Tommy: Yeah, so I guess that's how it started, or started snowballing with an audience in mind.

Campbell: Uh, Gronks. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Tommy: Um, they feel very— I feel like your audience, based on the types of content you create, it is a smart audience because, because you have to actually like get the joke. It feels like all, all of your work is playing in that in-joke, which is why I think especially I feel like it would go very well in Melbourne because we all like to be like, oh yeah, we're on that, we get haha, we get that type of thing. Does that put more pressure knowing that you've got a smart audience?

Campbell: Yes, yes, yeah. Thank you, man, I really appreciate that. Um, more pressure sometimes. I definitely put a lot of pressure on myself, which I don't think is healthy, and that's something that I'm trying to alleviate at the moment just by fasting from the internet and dopamine fasts, all that kind of stuff.

Josh: What's the pressure? Is it to post? Is it—

Campbell: I guess it's like just when you've set a standard for yourself, being able to, uh, hitting that standard every single time, which isn't difficult because it comes naturally, but it does get difficult when so much of life gets in the way. And I mean, the way just how these social networks are structured is I feel like often when you've got somebody online, like, that's like a sliver of them. Like, you know, this show is one, like, 1% of your personalities, and then the rest of it is all offline. And it goes into it, yes, but it's foolish to assume from that 1% the 100%, which is why haters are stupid, right? But it's also why praise is kind of stupid because it's like, well, you don't know. All we know is the work. And if all we know is the work and there— and we know that people are deducing the human from the work, I feel pressure to be the work. And I think that's kind of what started fucking with my head as of late. And just stepping away from that and being a human again.

Josh: Is it— do you think it's what you have to grapple with if you are doing something consistent or, you know, applying yourself consistently to something?

Campbell: Yes, yes. And then I guess that's the other thing, is that there's a lot of, um, I don't know, conversations around consistency being an integral part of any kind of social media venture, which I think is kind of messed up. Like, I read this article that's kind of stuck with me about the, uh, this guy who— he's a writer, um, on the internet, and he talks about having a social media off-season in the same way that sport has a social media off-season. I'm like, yeah, they do rest, they do recover, and then they can come back and play harder and harder and harder. And I think like with me, like I've been drawing comics for 3 years now with just my foot hard on the accelerator, and now I'm just like, whoa, all right, maybe I need to step off the field for like a month and then come back.

Tommy: Do you feel like you just need to take every opportunity?

Campbell: Yes and no, because there are more opportunities than I could take, definitely. Like I think it's at first, yes, I felt like I had to say yes to everything, and now it's at the point where I, I can't at all. And so I think I've just got to say yes to the really, really big ones. And that's been like a weird thing that I've had to skill up quite quickly on, because once again, it's like, I mean, sometimes when things go well for you, you don't expect them to take over your whole life. Or like, but I'm so opportunistic, you know. If I see like an ice cream truck or hear like Greensleeves in the background, I'm like, fuck it, that's dinner, you know.

Tommy: Does the in-joke get harder when when your audience gets bigger based on like empathy, I guess, right? So as your audience gets— so say even like talking about Joel being, you know, a junkie, a good, a good example there. As you mentioned, there are people struggling with drug issues.

Campbell: I lost a close friend to heroin earlier this year. It was fucking horrible.

Tommy: And so you can't— like, there is the other side of every story, right? And so if you think about from a comedic point of view, there is something in the us and them which I think you know, everything— like, a lot of comedy is based around that. Does that get harder from an empathy point of view when you're creating the work?

Campbell: Massively. And I wish it didn't. I wish it didn't play into my head that I don't want to make anyone feel excluded. Because I think that's the other thing, like, with all this— I think it was— I might have been listening to, like, it could have been like Tim Ferriss Show or something where they were talking about how as you start achieving more goals that you have been set, certain elements of your personality exaggerate or get amplified, which is why we have phrases like 'absolute power corrupts absolutely.' But it's also why some people become philanthropic, because they already had that charity element. And as they find their success in life and as they find their fulfillment, that, that element amplifies. And I think for mine, weirdly I've sort of— I think compassion has probably— is probably one of those things. There's a bunch of others as well, maybe a bit of self-indulgence, who knows. But all those elements have kind of bubbled to the surface, and it's made me want to be less edgy and less angry and less outraged and less combative, which I think are elements that I used a lot maybe like a few years ago when I would draw comics, but not ones that I really like using anymore. And I wonder if it's a good thing to lose that edge or if it's a bad thing and I'm watering down my style.

Josh: What do you think?

Campbell: I don't know, man. I don't think I want to put any more toxicity out in the world. And I think I've done enough.

Josh: And what is out of your content? Is, is the cocaine video, is that more on the edgier side?

Campbell: No, no, that's, that's just—

Josh: What is it for you that—

Campbell: probably like the political stuff. Like I used to do a lot more political satire. And I just found that the comment sections would just get so dirty so quick, and I would have to grapple with the idea of being like, I created that. Like, if I— I mean, I didn't create that. That conversation would be going on without me.

Josh: You start— you started the campfire, now everyone's around the campfire.

Campbell: Yeah. And now there's a bunch of people who are hating each other, are probably going to have a shitty day about this, and no real change came from it. If anything, all the only change that came from it was I found my way into new people's feeds, which is inherently selfish, and maybe I swayed some ideas. But yeah, I think it was— yeah, I kind of regret that.

Josh: I think, you know, artists change direction. Music is pretty clear. So Kanye West, yeah, or Madonna, or old albums. His new album, it's like Christian fucking— it's an album, Jesus Is God.

Campbell: I'm the one guy who likes it.

Josh: I fucking love it too. There's actually the unmastered— I'll give it to you after. My mate sent me the YouTube link to Yandi, which is the original album, which is now Jesus Is God. And Jesus Is God is very tame.

Tommy: Chick-fil-A.

Josh: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, but, but the other one is like more N-word. Like, it's, it's more original Kanye. But he did the shift to produce something new. I see that kind of an artist and go, he actually fucking knows where it's heading. Because every album he's done, I've thought, is unbelievable after listening to it for 6 times I might not like at the start. Is there a thought from your side where you're going, who you are is, is the art? It sounds bad because it's like you don't want to be your work, but as an artist, you're like, what you want to put out into the world is what you want to put out.

Campbell: Yeah.

Josh: If you don't want to do that other political satire shit.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: This is the News Truthless. Yeah. And you're going to like it or not. And if you don't.

Tommy: And it's the like Seth Godin talks about, like the change you seek to make. So like, if you think about that, even though it is a 1% representation of you, it is still the 1% that you're choosing to put out there.

Campbell: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I would agree with that. And also, that's like that Kanye thing. I've been thinking about that a lot lately, just in the sense that because it's like, as, as somebody who makes art, but the way that art is received now is like, instead of being called like an artist or a cartoonist or something, you're just called a content creator. And content creator has all these weird connotations of this is what you do, and it is very much like one of those put in a box type things. Things. And it's like, if you can just be like, all right, this is what I do now, either you're here or you're not. Which is, yeah, definitely something that I subscribe to as a, as a belief system.

Tommy: What's an example of a piece of work that you've done that you've since regretted?

Campbell: Oh, let me have a think.

Josh: Are you a delete guy or an archive guy on Instagram?

Campbell: Archive, because you never know, it might come back. Oh man, I archive something today, like I archive all the time. I just like remind myself that I'm in control.

Tommy: Uh, something that I regret, um, I guess it's just like an opportunity to, um, because I think that's why we like daily is because we can show up the next day and be better and do all that.

Campbell: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I guess I like the incremental improvement. Oh, I remembered one. Yeah, um, so I made this video and I just watched all these like stupid fucking bro science documentaries and they were just so dumb. Like, you know those health ones that are like, unless you're eating a pound of fish, you're gonna starve? It's like, all right, chill out. And so then I was like, okay, could I make a Bro Science documentary? And so I did. And the whole idea behind it was, it was sort of back around the same time as that cocaine video, so I was like, all right, so I'll make one about a different drug. And I kind of did this really, really, really shit but— if you didn't know anything about science, it would be convincing storytelling about how if you're vegan, you will have a much better high on ecstasy. And I called it Vegan for the Pengas, and it was like this massive shitpost. And I got it. I thought it was funny. There are a few people who also thought it was funny, but then there are a lot of people who did not find it funny at all.

Josh: Let me guess, Vegans?

Campbell: No, because I'm vegan and I thought it was hilarious. Um, and a lot of the vegans liked it because they're like, even if this science is wrong— so the people who got that, they're like, it's still making a slightly more pleasant conversation around veganism where vegans don't look like these preachy fucking hippies. And if the science is right, awesome, we get a better ecstasy high. The people who got really offended were actual science, like bro science guys. So the actual freaking meatheads out there who are just like, well, no, I'm this is, this is fucking stupid. I started getting fucking death threats.

Tommy: What?

Campbell: No joke. I would wake up and then like, you know, when you look at your phone and you know you're not meant to, and then it's just a freaking like list of death threats. Bro, you shouldn't be putting that shit on the internet. And like, my one regret was being like, hey guys, this is a joke. But fuck them, fuck them. You know what, I don't regret it.

Tommy: Okay, you come around, I appreciate it. Uh, drugs, uh when I was a kid, I feel like I've opened my mind a little bit. When we went to California, I did edibles for the first time. I haven't been one to drink much. I've always felt that this sort of drugs and drug culture, I've had sort of a negative sort of view on it. It seems like things are changing with like marijuana and stuff like that. What's your perspective of the whole culture? Wow, it's a big question.

Campbell: That's a huge question. Um, I did a lot of drugs when I was younger. I don't do drugs anymore, and that's very much intentional.

Josh: Flat out nothing?

Campbell: Yeah, or every now and then I'll slip up at like maybe a birthday or a music festival, and I always just hate myself the next day. But otherwise it's cold turkey, which has been much better than what it used to be. So I feel like I have had an intimate history with them. And I think around about the time that I started making stuff, I found that the less drugs I did, the more stuff I made. And so that was my reaction, was, well, if drugs have used me for so many years, I'll use drugs. Which is when I made that cocaine video. I'm like, how can I use this culture instead of me feeling like, you know, I'm its freaking friend in prison?

Josh: Yeah, I mean, it's I've thought the same. Does it— do you think it's— do you think it's true that once you're off them you work, or you just seen the correlation between it? Because I'm always trying to work out. I don't—

Campbell: I don't think quitting drugs necessarily will make you motivated. I think it does the opposite effect to a lot of people. Um, but I think if you are motivated, you can quit drugs, I guess. But I mean, everyone's got so much, so much shit going on. And if like you're knee-deep in drug addiction like that what I just said is going to sound like absolute bullshit.

Josh: Oh yeah, I mean, this is non-drug addict speaking. It's because it's a serious thing for people to come off.

Tommy: Is it because drugs are always short-term? Is there any long-term strategy to drug use?

Campbell: I think it opens your mind to a lot of stuff, and not in the like classic psychedelic, like, your mind's open, bro. I think more just that other people have a lot of pain and that this is their way of healing it. And which is, which is sad that that's— that we don't have a more open discussion about closing pain or ending your trauma or sort of actual medication instead of self-medicating. So I think it sort of— it probably gives you a bit more empathy, I think, when you look at a dude screaming down the street, or if there's like a viral video of some guy harassing a cyclist, you know, like, who's got— it looks like a junkie or something like Maybe because you're a bit more empathetic, like, okay, that guy's a human and he's doing drugs for a reason, and those reasons were things that happened to him, and he's, you know, he's a victim of something.

Josh: I mean, we're all swimming in our own thoughts. Like, every human is experiencing that— thoughts just flashing every second, constantly, hundreds, thousands a day. What's, what's your— so, like, mental health and your art when you are struggling? I could assume most people have times where they're struggling.

Campbell: Yeah.

Josh: What does it do to the work you're creating consistently?

Campbell: Uh, it becomes very depressing, and I can map it because I've like, I don't know, I think I'd sort of over the 3 years that I've had of drawing comics, I was like, I'm, I'm not gonna ever like skip out on too many days, uh, although I have lately just with this new onset burnout, but Every time I do get depressed, I'll see like the cartoons just get so dark and so grim and so nihilistic. And then when I get manic, everything is just chaotic. There's like 8 new ideas going on at once and I just upload insane amounts. So I think it's— yeah, I couldn't map it with any— it's just so easy to map with accuracy.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: How do you create longevity as an artist?

Campbell: Uh, in what sense?

Tommy: So I guess like some of that, the roller coaster and all that sort of thing. Oh yeah, yeah, you could see that. Or the burnout.

Campbell: Yeah.

Tommy: And then we're all sort of, uh, we love Matt D'Avella's, you know, stuff and what he's producing. And I guess it's a lot of that self-development, trying to, you know, not burn the— what do they say—

Campbell: candle at both ends. Yeah.

Josh: How you put the candle on the side to do that doesn't really work that well, you know.

Campbell: It's just gonna get like a T-shaped candle.

Josh: Yeah. And then you got 3 ends and it's Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Campbell: Maybe some toothpicks, I don't know. Yeah. Um, so how do I overcome it? Um, I used to be very bad. I think my coping strategies were shocking, um, for a long time, which is what we were talking about before. But since not using those as coping strategies, I've actually gone to therapy, which has been quite nice.

Tommy: How did you find a therapist? As in, like, where do you—

Campbell: like, physically?

Tommy: Yeah.

Campbell: Uh, um, Well, it was my mum. I was on the phone to my mum and she was saying, you should get a therapist. And then she's like, oh, my friend goes to this one in Stanmore. And so I just ended up going there because I don't know, I've had a lot of bad run-ins with mental health professionals before, um, just when I haven't been all there. When I was 20, I remember complaining to a mental health professional to the point where I got sectioned and sent into like a mental hospital. And it was, I was, it was, it was hectic. And so I was just like, ah, I just made up my mind that mental health professionals were bad people and that they all wanted to section you.

Tommy: Do you have certain types then that you sort of vibe with? Have you worked that out? It's like, I don't like psychs, I want this type or that type.

Campbell: I think I was less demanding, to be honest, because I was like, I, I think I'd resigned to the fact that I might not gel with everybody and maybe I'll gel with nobody. So if in the potentially likely case that I gel with nobody, then I'll just lower my standards. So I just lowered my standards a bit and lowered expectations. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly.

Josh: If you expect to gel with nobody and then someone you gel with, it's a positive.

Campbell: Yeah, yeah, jackpot.

Tommy: And so do you— when you go in for the first session, yep, what were you expecting? Um, and did it, did, did it catch you on a good day or a bad day? Like, it—

Campbell: oh, good question. Well, I just sort of come clean to my mum and my my fiancée about some pretty gnarly childhood trauma. And so that was the sort of instigation of it that I just kind of kept my mouth shut on forever. And my plan was to take said trauma to the grave and just never burden anybody with it. But then it just came out one day in a conversation with my mum, and I was like, which is when she's like, oh, you gotta go get therapy. And so yeah, that's exactly what I did. I, and then I just tell the therapist about that. And yeah, it was really nice. Cried a bunch. It was good. Felt good.

Tommy: And so was it something that you felt like, okay, like did you go and do the whole, like, the mental health plan?

Campbell: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Tommy: You had to go to a GP first?

Campbell: Oh no, I went straight to the therapist for a few sessions and then she said, oh, go to do the mental health plan, which if anybody doesn't know about it, you can get your 10 sessions by just getting a mental health plan.

Tommy: Use coupon code STRUTHLESS69.

Campbell: Swipe up for free therapy.

Tommy: And so, uh, was there a sense that you just wanted to talk about the, uh, previous trauma? Was there any discussion on like how that connects to the current day?

Campbell: There was a lot of discussion on that. So there, and there were a bunch of traumas. So that's kind of how it started. So it started out with like a really obvious one, and then it led into all the other ones, which, I mean, we've all got, we've all had so many demons.

Josh: It's like you lead the problem you think, and there's actually a bunch of others.

Campbell: Yeah, exactly.

Josh: That you haven't raised yet. Yeah, yeah, I get that. And is there some— is there stuff you didn't realise that you were fucking struggling?

Campbell: So much, man.

Josh: That's so much reality. If you don't know it's a problem.

Campbell: Yeah.

Josh: And it— you're right, and it's actually controlling your operating system.

Tommy: Did you want to push back on anything that— this assumptions that they were making?

Campbell: I think I'm still sceptical of of personally being medicated, which, I mean, that's my struggle. I know some people thrive on medication. I think I'm just scared of chemicals in general, which is such a naive thought, and I totally respect that. But that's probably the, the one bit of resistance that I have felt, I think, to therapy.

Tommy: And so when they— if they do prescribe that sort of thing, is it a— how do you work through something like that?

Campbell: Well, I don't know. I, I haven't done it.

Josh: Um, it's a psychiatrist, right?

Campbell: Oh yeah, oh, you mean logistically?

Tommy: Yeah, well, I'm just wondering, like, so say like you, you go to a therapist and they say, oh look, it sounds like you've got this type of depression, you would benefit from this. And then you think in your head, I saw that Netflix doco on there, yeah, I don't have all the answers about that shit.

Campbell: I become WebMD.

Tommy: And so, uh, if you, if you see a therapist and they suggest maybe you should try this type of medication, would they know that's a psychiatrist?

Josh: Yeah, yeah, they would say go see Yeah, psychiatrist then has to make that decision.

Campbell: But she did say, she's like, I think you would definitely benefit from medication and I think you should go get it. So that's the— that's my, my current— that's like happened last week.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: And what do you think about that art, like connecting that? Because I guess there's a lot of, a lot of artists that think if I take medication, is that going to change my personality, which will then change that 1%?

Campbell: Yeah, there was a brilliant documentary about, um, something similar with like Stephen Fry and Carrie Fisher, um, where they were talking about bipolar disorder in creatives and whether or not, yeah, um, reducing the bipolar disorder's hold on you would reduce your creative output. Because a lot of the people would be like, oh, when I'm manic, the output's incredible.

Josh: Um, Kanye.

Campbell: Yeah, yeah, yeah, precisely. And like, so many, so many, so many awesome people. And I mean, I don't know, like, I haven't experienced anything other than extreme emotions. So I don't, I don't know what a middle ground would give me creatively, but honestly, it would probably be okay.

Tommy: Yeah, it's a weird and scary feeling if you've had a certain operating system. Yes, it's like you've got your phone and you think, fuck, is iOS 13 going to slow everything down? Is the fucking— yes, the battery is going to be fucked up.

Campbell: Yeah, yeah, I'm going to freaking get some Nokia vibes over here.

Josh: How much do you connect sort of the work and the success, whether it be comments or likes or money you're making, to the mental health stuff? Like, is it directly affecting you?

Campbell: Oh, like the dopamine loop of people telling you that they love you?

Josh: I mean, all of that. Yeah, it's all this external stimulus.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: Does it actually play on your mental state?

Campbell: Um, yes, yes, but hopefully not for too long. Like, I just live and die by that. You're never as bad or as good as they say you are. And so you can sort of detach yourself from the comments. But I guess— and then, I mean, that's been work to get there, because at first it's like, oh, sick, people think I'm cool, you know. But then after a while you're like, okay, like 3 people over there thought you were cool. Like, what does your best friend think? What does your mum think? What does your girlfriend think? Because that's all that really counts, which is way higher order than I thought I'd answer that question.

Tommy: What's the, uh, what's the scene in Australia? Like, I saw that Logan Paul KSI— is it KSI? Fight and I was hearing some people saying, yeah, the who's who of YouTube were there. And I was like, it sounds fucking horrendous. It's like, oh yeah, all that. I'm pretty sure they said crews, but like, oh, everyone's YouTube crew was there.

Campbell: I was like, good lord. Yeah.

Tommy: I mean, is there a— we haven't entered any scene really yet in Australia, but is there like an Instagram— are you getting invited to anything like a Fuck Jerry style like parties? I think I saw you on a boat once on an Insta storey and I just assume now that you're on yachts all the time.

Campbell: It's the only time I pull out my phone is on yours, and I just gotta, gotta carefully craft this brand. All right. Um, nah, it's like, oh, I mean, I think I've made a lot of friends through Instagram, and that's in the same way that I, I think me and my, my girlfriend, now fiancée, got together about a month before Tinder came out, um, or maybe before Tinder hit mainstream. So I never got a chance to really meet people online, and I think now with Instagram I can Yeah, I've just made so many friends through it, and it's just people who are doing the same thing that you're doing, and they might happen to go on yachts, but they also might just happen to live around the corner and just want to have a beer.

Josh: Well, I think also, Josh, it's like the bubble. So it's the, the art world. I've got a mate who has a gallery, and it's— I, I know that that's a bubble that he's in. We're in this fucking podcasting creator, video creator bubble. If you do seek— do you seek time outside the bubble, or do you even know, um, do you identify that it is a bubble?

Tommy: There's a bubble. Community is a community.

Campbell: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. No, that's the funny— both of those words are very funny.

Josh: Yeah, I think community is the, the— you can live in the community. The bubble gives it the zoomed out perspective that you're actually fucking in the community inside the bubble, and there's a life outside of your world. And so you can give yourself a perspective shift if you just just look outside to someone who doesn't give a fuck about what you do.

Tommy: Yeah, the radio stuff, like 100%.

Josh: That's even netballers. We had, uh, very specific— oh, it's sport.

Tommy: Oh yeah, yeah.

Josh: So it's another— it's a culture, it's a community, but it's a real fucking bubble.

Campbell: Um, I think I get lost in the bubble too much, but not in like a community-based bubble. I think I get just lost in my own bubble. I think I just, I live in my own world. I don't leave the house heaps. I'm just— yeah, I used to leave it a lot, not anymore. No, just not a fan. Got two dogs and just hang out with them. So I think I've made my own bubble and that is where I live.

Josh: But it's a modern day, right? It's like you can—

Tommy: You're living the dream.

Josh: See, not really. I like it. You're living your dream. Yeah, but you can—

Campbell: I'm living my nightmare.

Josh: So what were you leaving the house for?

Campbell: Oh, other than to go on the yacht. Yeah. Other than to go on a yacht. What would I leave the house for? I take the dogs out. Taking the dogs out, um, getting some groceries. All vegan, baby.

Tommy: So do you like— what do you do now? Like fucking Coles online or something?

Campbell: No, no, no, no, no. IGA is like a block away, so I go there. But yeah, no, I've become weirdly introverted. And then there'll be like, um, I don't know, I still see friends and shit. Maybe I was exaggerating a little bit.

Tommy: Yeah, but what would you do on the weekend?

Campbell: Oh, I probably would have stayed home.

Tommy: Yeah, I love that. Like, because I'm very much like that. Have you ever thought about living in a regional area, so you have no chance.

Campbell: I used to. So, I mean, Sydney's only like, we only moved back to Sydney maybe about a year ago, but before that we were in Tamworth and then before that we were in Stockton. And Stockton's a weird town. I don't know, you guys are from Melbourne. Nah, it's technically a suburb of Newcastle, but because there's so much water in between and you have to catch a ferry, it's kind of in the same way the Galápagos has developed its own species. It's really developed its own culture.

Josh: But it's not connected to the mainland.

Campbell: No, not connected to the mainland. Oh no, no, it is. It's like a peninsula coming from the south. South— sorry, from the north. But, um, yeah, it's like right next to like all the coal stuff, so it's just a mining town, population about 4,000. We're like, well, it's cheap.

Tommy: So, so what were you doing? So you were talking about doing the, the artwork and doing the, um—

Campbell: well, that, that was exactly what we did, because you're like, have you thought about moving to a regional area and just grinding? I, I— maybe that's— I've invented the end of your sentence, uh, question. Um, yeah, and so that was kind of it. So that's sort of what we did. We're like, all right, well can we have a cheaper standard of, a cheaper cost of living and live somewhere next to a beach? So we did exactly that. And then while I was there, I'd catch the ferry in each day, and I was going to a tattoo studio in Newcastle learning to tattoo. It was really relaxing.

Tommy: Yeah. Did you— so you like that lifestyle?

Campbell: Yeah, it was nice. I wouldn't mind getting it back again, I think. I mean, maybe it's, maybe it's the recent air quality in Sydney that's made me a bit resentful of the city. I don't know. Um, But yeah, so does the city win? Convenience.

Tommy: Yeah. Oh my God, I guess doing like your, um, collaborations.

Campbell: Yeah, collaborations with people. I mean, and also just like clients in general, because I mean, of the work I do, you know, we're talking like 10% makes it online. Like most of my work is freelance illustration, which I don't really post about or anything, or freelance video editing or something like that. But it's so much easier when you can just go see your clients So that's where the city wins, I guess. It's a financial decision. Yeah.

Tommy: What are you as a business person? How would you describe yourself?

Campbell: Wolf. Yeah, yeah. I think I, I like being independent. Um, I think I get very, um, I get real allergic reactions to, uh, certain, certain aspects of business. Um, you know, at some point my, my freaking laid-back mum kicks in, like the voice in my head where it's like, fuck the rich, you know? Yeah. Um, so that kicks in, but then I get maybe another voice which is like, I want to be rich, I want the money though. Yeah. So I don't know, maybe conflicted, conflicted.

Tommy: Is that sabotaging to projects, do you think?

Campbell: I think yes, yes. Yeah, for sure.

Tommy: Do you call out bullshit? Like, because I could imagine you in a setting of a corporate environment where they're like, like, or just the Big Four banks being like, we want to Call Campbell, like, make us do a fucking funny meme on us, you know, about saving money.

Campbell: And in this fantasy, what do I do next?

Tommy: Yeah, now what do I do? Yeah, well, so I think that it's— you could go one of two ways. Yeah, it's either the voice which is like, you love money, like, just do it. But there's also the one of like, you guys don't actually get me or understand, you just are trying to do what you think is right.

Campbell: And then I flip the desk. I have, yeah, I've definitely done both of those. Yeah, for sure, man. I quit a job so fucking— how do you— what, the Burnie Bridge? Oh, I burnt— oh man, what bridge? What bridge?

Tommy: That's why Sydney's like all the smoke. It's actually all—

Campbell: oh fuck, we just got cancelled out here. Damn. Yeah, no, that was, that was the bridge. Yeah, um, which, uh, and I apologize, you know, here we are now. Um, yeah, basically, yeah, that bridge looked worse than the end of a cigarette, man. It was Fucked. But, um, yeah, so what'd you do?

Tommy: How'd you burn the bridge?

Campbell: This is so bad. I've never even told this storey because I'm that embarrassed. But I was working at an advertising agency as my first job out of uni. And you know what, fuck it, if you're from that agency, listen the fuck up. How old are you? Uh, I would have been 23, um, I want to say. Yep, 23. And good God, I hated it. I hated it so fucking much, man. Everyone there just felt like the antithesis of, of who I wanted to be in this world. Just like vapid yuppie scum, which part of me is—

Tommy: there is that part me.

Campbell: And I think, you know, yachts, yeah, the yachts, the yachts, right? Like the fucking, like the side of me that wants like millions of bucks and just to be a bougie cunt. But like, you know, like this, so we've got this vapid yuppie scum, right? And like, you know, I'm going in there day in, day out, and it's like, when it's your first job, you just, oh man, like you're confronted by so many things. One of those things is how many hours you work, and right, so it's like 9 to 5, Monday to Friday. All right, so, so when's, when's the holidays? There's no fucking holidays. The weekend's the holiday.. And so I'm like, all right, okay, so this is— is this seriously what everybody does? So I've got a little bit of that going on, but I think maybe in another office that would have been maybe suppressed by how much I thought the people could be cool, but I thought the people were cunts. And so there was this one point— this kind of relates a little bit to Matt D'Avella— because like I had all these clothes and I was like, I just want to get rid of them. And so I would chuck them on Facebook, right? And I was like, oh, just, yeah, I'm not just going to write for sale, so I write this like heaps pretentious thing. I'm like, like, hey guys, I'm gonna go live a minimalist nomadic lifestyle where I don't need any possessions. You know, just like this absolute, like, just shitpost of like why I'm putting these jackets online. And then one of my former friends— I shouldn't say former— a girl who I was friends with happened to be a journalist, and she saw that and she's like, oh, hey Cam, talking about minimalism is in my quota this week. Can I interview you? And I was like, 'How far do I keep the shitpost going?' And I'm like, 'Yeah, yeah, let's do that.' And she's like, 'Really?' And what I should have said is no, but what I did say is, 'How's Tuesday?' So Tuesday rolls around, right? And I don't know, man, I think I'd had so much coffee that day, you know. You know those days where you're just like, 'Ah, I'm a fuckhead, I'm a jittery fucking fuckhead.' So there I am, just like, you know, freaking out up here, and she calls me and I don't know, you know, this is the first time I'd really been asked in depth about something that I didn't believe in. So I invent this character and I'm like, yeah man, minimalism's all who I am. And she's like, wow, but what about your job? I'm like, I hate my job. And she's like, oh dear. And I'm like, yeah, I hate it. Do you know why I hate it? Because everyone here is a fucking yuppy who's intoxicated by their job title and their quirky fucking socks. Next minute, front page of news.com. Oh bro, don't worry, I've actually got bonsai socks on. Yeah, so I've come around. Front page news.com, there's a big photo of me smiling like a cunt. 3 PM on a Friday, right in time for everyone to just stop working and start scrolling the internet. And who do they see? Oh, that fucking new kid who doesn't like us. Oh, what's this? He's publicly said he doesn't like us. Oh my— oh man, I died a thousand fucking deaths that day. And I'll speak to you Um, I don't know, I can't remember. I think I was just so soul crushed that the whole thing was a blur. I got in so much trouble, so many people who might not have— I might have like escaped them having an opinion on me, now they hated me. And so I was like, ah, shit. And I quit very soon after that.

Josh: Did they— did the boss call you in, or your manager?

Campbell: Yeah, yeah. Oh, my manager, he really liked me. I had a good relationship relationship with him, and he was like, mate, I love you, but this is reckless. And he's like, you, you need to get that down. And part of me was like, no, yeah, I'm gonna leave it up.

Tommy: Is it still on News.com?

Campbell: No, no, I ended up taking it down. There is an Italian version of it somewhere, so I'll send you that. Yeah, yeah, it was brutal, man. Um, yeah, but then like the execs, you know, you know what these people are like, they're like straight up freaking movie stereotypes. They're like, no, we're not saying we hate you, but you know, fuck you. And so like those were the people that I'm sitting in the bad room with and they're just like talking to me. They're like, I think in their head they were just like, if we piss him off, you know how they're always playing a chess game, these corporate types. Yeah. I think they were like, if we try approach this aggressively, maybe he'll— he's recording this or something and he's going to get another News.com article or there'll be like some Fair Work thing, which I haven't— I didn't realise that until later because I was like, the first question that one of them said was, why did you do it? Are you not happy here? And I'm like, that is the most empathy I have seen from you forever. Flat out.

Tommy: They definitely had spoken to an HR consultant.

Campbell: Yes, 100%.

Josh: I mean, you could have hidden behind, it's just, I was just taking the piss.

Campbell: I did.

Josh: That's what I said. And they, and they believed it.

Campbell: Yeah, come on, chill out. It's just the news.

Josh: Like, oh God. I mean, you've made the news a bunch of times, like the Junkie and the pedestrian.

Campbell: Yeah, the clickbait churn.

Josh: Yeah. Well, I mean, the type of stuff is, it's like very much their audience.

Campbell: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Josh: The sort of, yeah, the hipster.

Campbell: Jaded.

Josh: Yeah, that works. So you get the jaded, but then you've also got the corporate hipsters.

Campbell: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Josh: That are on the weekends partying and liking the escapism because they see the truth.

Campbell: I think I like having them as my audience as well because I mean, I mean, firstly, like, they're passionate enough to be jaded because I think jaded only comes from like idealism, right? You're like, ah shit, the world could be better. And when you recognise that, maybe that's when the cynicism kicks in. And also they have— they've got money, they can buy my shit. That's fucking awesome.

Tommy: Where did Struthless come from, the name?

Campbell: The name? Oh, I was honestly just mashing words. It was just what I was doing one night in the pub, and that was the first night I actually drew an ivis. Because I was like, oh, if I'm going to draw this, I'll need like a name to put it under. And my girlfriend, now fiancée, was working at the bar, and I'm like, oh, do you have a pen and some paper? So she gives me like the Kino pen and then the doggies' bedding paper. She's like, it's blank on the other side, go crazy. And so yeah, that was my first cartoon, was on the back of that.

Tommy: Are they all still there?

Campbell: Yeah, man.

Josh: Yeah, yeah, you have a deep scroll. Yeah, perfect. You got the physical copies of them?

Tommy: Do you keep them?

Campbell: Oh, I reckon I do actually. Yeah, they'd probably be in my, my like shoebox of, of paper documents.

Josh: We went to the, um, the Haring and Basquiat exhibition on last Friday night. Yeah, the crazy thing is, well, a bit out of place, we don't know.

Tommy: Oh yeah, dude, I gotta show you something. Okay, he's getting going.

Campbell: For the audio listeners, but on the, on the, on the note, I went to a Studio 54 party the other day And, uh, yeah, no, I'm not on a yacht, but so that's the photo, Haring and Basquiat.

Josh: So that's what they've used for the—

Campbell: that's me and my buddy, we recreated it.

Josh: That's awesome.

Tommy: So good.

Josh: That is awesome. The crazy thing about them and the stuff you're seeing there, uh, I mean, those guys died very young, 27, 30 or something, drug overdose and AIDS. The stuff now, like, that they're using as art art is stuff that's just like handwritten notes. And it's fascinating because you can't, you can't work out right now what will be in the future the thing that—

Tommy: the aesthetic.

Josh: The aesthetic.

Tommy: It's so bizarre.

Josh: So it's just like you do you, and those guys didn't get to see the full potential of the impact, which is sad.

Campbell: And you wonder as well, did the death make the art better?

Josh: Exactly. That's why I'm like, were they— I asked one of The curator. I said, were they as popular then as they are now? It's like they had a big following, but it wasn't— they were edgy, they were getting arrested, pushing the boundaries, so they weren't understood then. Whereas now's time, it's, it's very understood. Do you see— do you do anything in your art where you're like, this is for the future, no one's gonna fucking get it now?

Campbell: Maybe if I die, my art will get bigger. Yeah, well, no, no, um, no, no, do I do anything where it's like, yeah, like mark my words kind of stuff.

Josh: Yeah, no one's gonna get this right.

Campbell: Or yeah, maybe there's some stuff that I definitely put out and I'm like, oh, this might help me one day if I ever need to reference this.

Tommy: Do you ever keep your school uniform just in case you like really pop for the museum?

Josh: Good lord.

Campbell: Yeah, it's like, yeah, I got this box just called How Big Is My Ego Today? And it's like every time I move house, you know, do I add add or do I subtract to it? No, um, uh, no, but maybe I should. No, fuck no. Um, uh, yeah, but I guess you make me feel bad. Why? You've been uniformed.

Tommy: School captain fucking badge. I've been holding on to it.

Campbell: Oh, far out. How much you want for it?

Tommy: No, why would I do in 2019? You're crazy. Give it a few years. These things appreciate.

Josh: Do you think, um, do you think you need a healthy dose of delusion as a creator?

Campbell: Oh shit, yeah, yeah. But also, no, um, yeah, that's, that's a great answer. No, um, okay, so I'll explain where my delusion comes in. I think getting tunnel vision, which is back to that, you know, singular bubble of one, um, because if you get the tunnel vision for long enough, you can create good enough without questioning why you're putting stuff on the internet. But when you've got just a little bit more time to get existential and think about life, that's when you're like like, why would I do this? Why would I even put my opinion out there? Why would I draw?

Josh: Why?

Campbell: And when you start getting those whys, I think that's when you become less deluded. Because honestly, like, why? I don't understand why. So the delusion helps battle, for me, nihilism, which I think is a more realistic place to end up on than optimistically putting out content to connect with people.

Tommy: So what's nihilism again?

Campbell: Uh, like just nothing matters.

Tommy: What do you think of 2019? It feels like if you read social media and everyone feels like, when's this year going to be over or whatever. I don't know whether that's sort of the bubble that I'm in because Mercury's in Gatorade. Yeah, sorry. Yeah, but seriously, um, but yeah, so what is 2019 2019 for you? Just not even looking at the world and all that sort of thing, but how has 2019 been for you?

Campbell: For me personally, um, so me and my buddies, or when the year started, we had a joke that we were calling it 20 Grind Team, which was kind of us pretending to be like entrepreneurs or rappers. You know how they're always like, bro, if I can make it, you can make it. Like, uh, you know, that kind of cringe.

Tommy: Um, we just said that before you got here.

Campbell: Oh my dudes, fuck me dead. This is my First and last appearance on the Daily Talk Show.

Tommy: Our community is torn apart.

Campbell: And my mouth is torn apart by my foot. So here we are. So yeah, I guess we called it 20 Grindtain and we were just like, okay, let's just start here and we'll all see where we end up at the end. And it was like a tight crew of us and we've all, to our credit, we've all, what's the past tense, ground?

Tommy: We've grounded. Grounded. Yeah.

Campbell: Yeah. So that's been kind of nice. And I reckon I grew like as a, quite recently. I've probably ground— I'm sticking with it— I've probably ground all I can grind in 2019. So I feel like I have grinded to a halt. I have, I've grinded to a very sudden halt, which has been pleasant.

Tommy: Did you see it coming?

Campbell: Yes, yes. Oh, so many points. So I think I took on— I was kind of doing a little bit yes man for a few, few projects, and there were some big ones that really took it out of me. Like, I animated my first music clip, which was way harder than I expected it would be. Um, doing certain podcast stuff with like, like a collaborative podcast, which I can't talk about now— that was so much work, but that'll be out later. Um, just generally creating video content in general. Um, and I don't know, I broke my hand as well earlier in the year, which meant that I couldn't draw for a couple of weeks. The doctor said 6, but I ripped my cast off after 3 because You don't own me, doctors.

Josh: Yeah, yeah.

Tommy: Did you at least draw on the cast?

Campbell: No, it was one of those like new age casts. Really? Yeah.

Tommy: Is it in your box of goodies that are going to appreciate over time?

Campbell: Is that one they're going to burn?

Josh: Yeah.

Campbell: Yeah. But like it was one of those things where it was like, I think that's when I started falling more in love with video and video editing and just talking on camera and not having to rely on drawing. So it was weird that even breaking my hand didn't stop the grind. And so I think it's just been a lot of of 16-hour days, no weekends for the past 11 months. And now I am a sleepy, sleepy guy who's about to go on a holiday.

Josh: Speaking to the artist, Romsey, is it? The dog heads with the human bodies.

Campbell: Oh yeah. Jillian Mark Shatner.

Josh: Yeah. What do they see you as now? They tell you to start. Yeah, they told me to start.

Campbell: And then we sort of drifted apart after that. And I saw them at a cafe maybe a couple of months ago. And I ran into them like, hey, how are you? And they were just like, oh, we love it, like, looks like everything's going great, kind of stuff. So it was, it was polite. They were proud. Um, is it—

Josh: I mean, they're old school artists.

Campbell: Oh, they are. I would say they're mid, so they probably, they piss off a lot of old school artists. Well, because they make their art, uh, what would you call it, like, you know how art, like, art from the art world, which Oh God, fuck. If you're in that world, go fuck yourself.

Tommy: I'm not sure I'd be listening, to be honest.

Campbell: If they are, they can—

Tommy: Yeah, dude, what is the old school work?

Campbell: Like, is it just like, you know, like the fucking pay millions of bucks for a painting? Like, you know, the ones where they like glorify it.

Tommy: What about the gaffer taped on the banana? The banana?

Campbell: Yeah, yeah, that kind of wankery. Like, but also like that, that can be maybe a comment on the wankery, so who knows. It's fucking all fucking circular while kids are fucking starving in other countries. God damn it, I hate that shit. It, right? But it's interesting because there is a class underneath that of people who want that, but because they can't afford the things that might hang in, you know, the NGV or whatever, there are artists who are catering to that. And the artists of the class above, like, I mean, they frown at anybody below them, which is— I mean, what a friendly move, right? What cool people. Imagine those being your values. Anyway, so Mark and Jillian— Mark would cater more to the aspirational type, and so their art would come in the form of, yes, like art on the wall but also homewares, which made them a lot of money because they were— instead of, you know, selling, well, one $1 million painting to one person, you know, you can sell a million of one to a million people, right, and make the same amount of money. So they were more going for that commercial route. So I think they're a bit frowned on. So just to clarify, yeah, I mean, where do you see yourself fitting in? Oh, way low, like lowest of the low, like complete low art, which is where I want to be. I'll live and die there.

Josh: Do you get to decide?

Campbell: I hope so. I don't know, I, I'm definitely not high art, but I would love to piss them off and one day be in one of those galleries. That's bucket list shit.

Tommy: Yeah. What's the, uh, the difference between being on the internet and on the like street? And do you like, in regards to murals? Yeah, like the artist experience when you see something in a feed versus on a wall.

Campbell: Oh, the wall can be a bit frustrating because if you want to tell somebody that they've done a good job, you can't. Or it's like there's a few steps in between you and complimenting somebody for their work.

Tommy: So have you thought about painting a comment section next to it? That could be an idea. Fucking smart. Yeah, you could even use like a whiteboard paint and then you give it a little pen and they could just—

Josh: Yeah.

Campbell: Yeah, I like that.

Tommy: Perfect.

Campbell: Yeah, that solves the problem.

Tommy: I think that's why we can do it. Yeah.

Campbell: The internet's been so good for us.

Josh: What about a digital screen where you you can actually write onto it and it takes the feed and actually logs the—

Campbell: well, that'd be kind of funky. On the flip side, no, I just think it's too digital.

Josh: Sure.

Tommy: Digital.

Campbell: Damn, man, we're solving the world's problems. But, um, the flip side of that, the good thing about seeing art in person when there is no context of a million people like this or whatever it is is that you can make up your mind for yourself. So it's a lot more of a personal relationship and you can really focus on what makes the art good as opposed to how many people tell you what makes the art good. So that's kind of nice. Yeah, I don't know. Still coming to grips with the idea of being an artist.

Josh: Yeah. I mean, we got to give credit where credit's due. You've got Struthless.com. I think it's a great domain.

Campbell: Thank you.

Josh: And we need a sound effect for anyone who owns a good quality domain name. If there's one thing we appreciate, it's people who own quality domains.

Campbell: Oh man, that's the first time I've ever heard anyone say that.

Josh: I'm glad it was us that told you.

Tommy: Yeah, it's really solid.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: Uh, so if 2019 was Grind Team, what's 2020?

Campbell: Oh, um, hopefully I'll have a holiday and it'll be more Grind 20. Only that just—

Josh: what's going on?

Tommy: So do you want to— I guess it's almost like deep work sort of thing.

Campbell: Yeah, it's a little— yeah, it's a bit more time. I think that's it. It's a little bit more, um, instead of like frantically say yes to everything and realise that you can't breathe and that you haven't fed your dogs until it's sunset.

Tommy: Um, so Sunday.

Campbell: Yeah, Sunday. That would have been much funnier until February. Fuck. Um, yeah, um, yeah, like instead of like neglecting your health and all that kind of stuff, I think I want to live a little bit more of a marathon approach to everything, which is a very influencer thing to say.

Tommy: What is the— what is Grind? What did Grind— Grind teen do to relationships?

Campbell: So I, I don't think it was that bad on my relationships, to tell you the truth. I think that— I, I think, I don't know, I'm a bit of an extrovert in that sense where I, I've really put relationships on a pedestal. Like, if they go, everything else goes. So I think I still kept a lot of my friendships and still called my mum all the time, which is a key pillar of who I am. Um, and yeah, yeah, so I think that was good.

Tommy: What's your favorite— you got an Android? Android?

Campbell: Yes.

Tommy: What's your favourite app?

Josh: Oh, get apps on Androids.

Campbell: You actually have to write to a guy and he sends his screenshots from an iPhone. Thanks, Dave. Now, um, oh, my favourite app, um, oh, Notes.

Tommy: Yeah. Is it— what's the deal with syncing with an Android? How does it go? So you put them in Notes and then does it sync using something?

Campbell: I actually just found out what syncing is, so— no, I'm joking. No, um, Androids are that backwards. Um, no, I guess you'd have get like a separate one like Evernote or something.

Tommy: Okay. No, but you're literally just using the notes and then—

Campbell: Yeah, yeah, yeah. That would be my most used, so my most favorite.

Josh: What do you write? What are you writing in your notes?

Campbell: You know, what to buy from the shops. Yeah.

Tommy: Do you still do poetry?

Campbell: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I like poems. Like not— I mean, the word poetry, we need two words for poetry. We need words for poetry that takes itself very seriously and words for, you know, just fun things that happen to rhyme. I like things that happen to rhyme that are fun.

Tommy: Yeah.

Campbell: Yeah. So I like, I think I like that sort of stuff and yeah, I definitely still do write. It, and I like drawing in your notes section. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Josh: You read something out?

Campbell: Uh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, yeah, for sure.

Tommy: Impromptu little fun. Can you bring your bum bag up as well? I like your bum bag.

Josh: You sell these?

Campbell: These are my buddy's bum bags. So one of the guys who is saying 20 Grind Team a lot with me—

Josh: fanny pack if you're in America.

Campbell: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, yeah, so his brand's Altamontage. Shout out.

Josh: So it's like, it looks different under the out of the— out of the—

Tommy: so is it glow-in-the-dark light?

Campbell: Um, or it's, uh, reflective. So 3M reflective.

Tommy: It's like 3M reflective.

Campbell: Yeah, so like if we've got like a flash— I'll show you later, it's going to be crazy. Yeah.

Tommy: If I put the torch on, will it do it? No, it wouldn't. No, don't worry about it.

Josh: Use your flash.

Campbell: Yeah, it would. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Tommy: Give it, give it a red hot guy. Face ID. All right, so I'll force the flash. I'm forcing the flash.

Campbell: It's gonna be sick. I'll give the play-by-play for the podcast listeners. All right, all right. So we've got—

Tommy: Josh is trying to work out how to do guaranteed flash.

Campbell: Yeah, he's doing a couple of taps. He's holding out. He's holding—

Tommy: is there a way of actually making it?

Josh: Yeah, yeah, it's the, uh, I think it's voice activated or torch.

Tommy: I can use torch nice and easy, but I feel like the flash is where it's at.

Josh: No, it's a lightning bolt on. Here we go.

Campbell: All right, here we go.

Tommy: Wow.

Josh: Hang on, it came up on my phone.

Campbell: Yeah, yeah, it'll come up on your phone as the—

Tommy: I'm turning the torch on. Here we go.

Campbell: Yeah, there you go.

Josh: Yeah, that's sick. You can't see it on, um, that— it's the, it's the instant flash that does it and then captures it like that.

Tommy: That's sick. So yeah, so if you had like headlights, maybe like if you're a cyclist.

Campbell: Oh, that'd be crazy.

Josh: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I've seen an artist in Hosea Lane do it. You take a photo of this wall and it's like a garage door. It's got all these holes in it. And it's in a certain color, it's in, um, silver, and you flash it, flash it, and you see the art.

Campbell: That's hectic.

Josh: It's fucking sick.

Campbell: That's awesome. All it's needing is— all it needs is the whiteboard now. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. If I can get a good poem up— oh my God.

Josh: Does it— is it— does it— do you write it like it finishes, or is it something where you're just putting things down, stream of consciousness?

Campbell: Let me grab a—

Tommy: oh my God.

Campbell: Um, Keep going.

Tommy: Have you done like a poetry read before?

Campbell: Oh man, this is, this is it. This is, this is number one.

Tommy: Really?

Campbell: Yep.

Tommy: Uh, have you ever done slam poetry?

Campbell: I would love to. I think that's a dream of mine. Yeah, it should be cool. Um, oh yeah, here we go. So we were talking about when content gets sad. Okay, so here's a poem I wrote.

Tommy: We'll make this a snippet on Instagram. So this is Campbell Walker presents the Houseplant Blues.

Campbell: My houseplants all are dying and I'm feeling uninspired. I can't stop drinking coffee and I can't stop feeling tired. Next week I was— last week I was high on life. Next week's up to chance. But this week I'm a piece of shit enclosed by dying plants.

Josh: I love it.

Campbell: Thank you.

Josh: Fucking real good.

Tommy: That's really good because I can really relate to that.

Josh: Yeah, we got dying plants.

Tommy: Yeah, they're fine.

Campbell: Look at the plants.

Tommy: Absolute nightmares. At least they look look real.

Campbell: Yeah, yeah, that's true.

Josh: Yeah, it's very relatable. The drinking, like, I'm just tired, I need more coffee, coffee makes me more tired.

Tommy: Yeah. And also, like, if you don't— you've said that you're a big water drinker, so if we haven't sort of kept it sort of filled up, but yeah, I mean, dehydration from coffee is real, right?

Josh: Adrenal gland, it's like—

Campbell: is that what it is?

Josh: Yeah, when you've, when you've exhausted—

Tommy: sounds like bro science.

Josh: Actually, look it up. You, you drink too much coffee And it's when you're drinking coffee and it does nothing to you. True. You're totally exhausted. Is it your adrenal gland, Mase?

Tommy: Uh, just looking it up. And so that's connected to hydration?

Josh: No, uh, no, no, but it's the coffee thing. Even if you drank heaps of water, it's still— you're still fucked.

Campbell: So you hit like a diminishing returns?

Tommy: Well, because it's also a diuretic.

Josh: Yeah, yeah.

Tommy: So it's like you fucking— you have the coffee and then you drink water.

Josh: You can't drink enough water. Yeah. To, you know, satisfy you.

Campbell: Oh yeah, because that's one of the big things with ecstasy, isn't it?

Tommy: That like, uh, you get thirsty and then you fucking drown.

Campbell: Yeah, yeah, oh yeah, the cool kids who— yeah, do that.

Josh: I remember when we were growing up, it was like, take ecstasy pills and you'll drown because you'll drink so much water.

Tommy: Yeah, that's not true.

Campbell: It's not true.

Josh: How many parties have you been to? How many tablets have you taken? I haven't seen anyone drown.

Campbell: Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Oh, I can answer to you. Yeah, ODing.

Josh: Yeah, it's a bizarre thing, but I remember it was the scare tactic of our generation.

Tommy: Yeah, you will drown. I would 100% drink too much water.

Campbell: ODing is real.

Josh: Yeah, it is real.

Tommy: Yeah, it's a daily talk show, Cam.

Campbell: Hell yeah.

Tommy: Uh, thanks so much for being on the show, fellas.

Campbell: Thank you so much for having me. This is a pleasure.

Tommy: @struthless69 on Instagram. Not that you really need any more. You've probably got enough followers.

Campbell: Uh, not until I hit a million, then I can be happy.

Tommy: I really appreciate that. I wasn't gonna say it, but fuck, yeah. Yeah, spot on. It's The Daily Talk Show. Hypedthedailytalkshow.com is the email address. If you enjoy the podcast, give us a 5-star review on Apple Podcasts. Otherwise, just keep it to yourself. Otherwise, yeah, see you tomorrow.

Josh: See you guys.

Campbell: Thank you.