Belonging

Josh: It's The Daily Talk Show episode 406!

Tommy: Weekend banter, happy Saturday! That's happening guys, Pete Sheppard in the building periscope on 400.

Peter: I haven't been here since you've hit that mark so congrats.

Tommy: Did you comment on the video?

Peter: I think so yeah.

Josh: No good, just appreciate it. You and I were talking about footy the other day—

Peter: leading with footy chat like Jesus as he puffs his chest out.

Josh: Love a bit of footy no make Actually, no, thinking about sports more and more.

Tommy: Okay. The footy season's towards the end.

Josh: It always happens this way. Just got into NBA.

Peter: Okay.

Tommy: I don't know much about NBA.

Peter: It's the off-season at the moment.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: Well, I got— the thing is they fuck it. They need a grand final at the start of the season because the way that it's sort of set up is it's the hype, like the very last, the grand final, the main thing.

Peter: Yeah.

Josh: That's when you fucking get excited and then you're like, oh great, I'm into it now.

Peter: Yeah.

Josh: I find it, you know, about Toronto and all that sort of thing.

Tommy: That's why it's grand. Yeah, but this is— you're one of those, like, sports fans would hate you.

Josh: Like, real—

Tommy: I'm not, I'm not a sports fan. Like, I'm not, I'm not. Well, they'd be disgusted at you. Like, Periscope Pete, look at you just jumping on. When you see a team win it, you then get on the fucking bandwagon. You haven't been slogging it out.

Josh: Well, that's why I want to start. It's like someone who says they're going to start podcasting now. That's you know, I'm the sportsman in that case.

Tommy: I don't think it's the same. What are you saying? Because podcasting's the sport of podcasting?

Josh: No, well, because if someone comes, I'm doing episode 1.

Tommy: Oh, okay.

Josh: Yeah, as a guy.

Tommy: Completely different, mate. I mean, don't, don't compare sport to podcasting.

Josh: Well, anyway, because then you'll start saying that you're a sportsman. I'm one step away from that. But Pete, he's an MCC member. Am, yes.

Tommy: Yes. And who pays it? Yeah. Well, let's just get this clear. Who pays it? Me. When did you— Have you paid it your whole life?

Josh: I think— Good question.

Peter: I think maybe from when I was 18. I feel like the first 2 years it might have been a birthday present. So, I got it when I was 16.

Tommy: Yeah.

Peter: Great birthday present when you're 16.

Tommy: Yeah.

Peter: And I think I probably— I think Mum and Dad probably paid it for the first 2 years.

Tommy: Yeah.

Peter: I mean, I've paid it since I was 18.

Tommy: I've let mine lapse and I can't get it. I was on the waiting list from the time I was born. Yeah. Took 17, 16 years or something.

Josh: Yeah.

Peter: 16.

Tommy: And so, my brothers have it. It's $550. I couldn't afford it. I would rather spend that money on the podcast, to be honest. My view is that I'll do something great enough and have mates that are in the media that I can go to the fucking—

Josh: Hashtag mates in the media.

Tommy: Mates in the media. And I'll go to a box when the grand final's on.

Peter: I love that posture. I was actually talking to a guy about this at the coworking space I work at.

Josh: It's the exact same way of saying like, I'm not going to worry about super because I'm rich.

Peter: We were having a conversation about super around lunch and I was like, what do you think about it? Oh, I don't think about it. I'm just going to be really rich.

Tommy: Yeah, well, we spoke about this earlier in the week.

Josh: Well, it was because you were doing Vox Pops for Barefoot Investor and you and I heard the conversation like, man, so many people are fucked. They're like not worrying about their super. To be honest, like my whole thing has been like, yeah, screw super. I'm going to be—

Tommy: Sure there wasn't the conversation you guys are having.

Josh: It might have been you actually.

Peter: Yeah, on one of our walks.

Tommy: But I mean, this is— I was listening to Conor McGregor on— do you know who Conor McGregor is?

Josh: He's a boxer. He was a boxer. He was a boxer, but now he does UFC. He's an Irish dude.

Tommy: Did he start as a boxer? I just fucking— just settle down, all you gronks that have no idea. Mixed martial art. He's a UFC fighter that then went to boxing to fight one fight against Floyd Mayweather because there was $85 million.

Peter: Yeah, right.

Tommy: From one fight, 11, 10 rounds. But he's this visualisation fucking poster boy. He was on Tony Robbins' podcast, and Tony Robbins is all about that visualisation and trampolines, you know, and, you know, cold plunge pools and big hands, just like people with huge hands. But he's just—

Josh: don't you fucking start, Pete, look at the size of yours.

Tommy: Visualization. Mum and I were having an in-depth conversation about visualization, and Mum had just watched the documentary on Walt Disney Yeah. And Walt, you know, his story, amazing. Created some of the most iconic, uh, mouse characters or characters in this world. Mickey Mouse.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: Most people in the world, the most famous little, you know, little thing. But it was, I didn't even know.

Josh: I set you up with that one just a bit like, just, no, it was just funny because it was like, there's heaps at Disney, I guess.

Tommy: Yeah. What else has he made?

Josh: Um, ah, fuck.

Tommy: What else?

Josh: Uh, Minnie Mouse.

Tommy: He's got it. He got it. He got the other one, the closest one.

Josh: Anyway, just 10 more seconds. What are other Disney characters?

Peter: I was hoping you didn't ask that.

Tommy: Aren't the Pocahontas?

Josh: Yes. Ah, Aladdin.

Peter: Yeah, I was gonna say like the Aladdins of the world.

Tommy: I mean, everything we grew up on, essentially.

Peter: Beauty and the Beast as well.

Tommy: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Josh: Like, they bought Pixar. Does that count?

Tommy: Yeah, that you, you read that, you heard that in the book that you bought.

Peter: Great book.

Tommy: Creativity, Inc. Creativity, Inc. Long, but great.

Josh: That's just good general knowledge, not good.

Tommy: Anyway, visualization.

Peter: Back to visualization.

Tommy: He was a man of visualising and seeing what he wanted and thinking about that. And I kind of had this counter conversation to that thought around visualization. I was like, yeah, but I see these people who are very successful and hindsight 20/20. And the way that they articulate stories. I know how to tell a good storey and I can sort of look at, you know, Josh and I, we were slogging away in his apartment with these two USB microphones. On the day we started the podcast, we actually drove to—

Josh: where was it?

Tommy: Audio Store DJ. We bought an extra mic. I had one from something else.

Josh: I used an Atlas to hold up. My neck was so sore.

Peter: Yeah, I've been able to do that.

Tommy: Bree took some photos. Like, you start— it was uncomfortable and it was awkward.

Josh: You know, you start to look at us now.

Peter: It's great now.

Tommy: No, but you start like you rap your success in just sort of— you anchor moments in time as the, the turning point. And I could easily say it was at that moment that we thought we could fucking— we could have something here. Yeah, but I didn't. I think about what's happened with me, you know, anytime I've ever had progression, we've just been so in it and that's all I think about. And I'm just like labouring and fucking feeling so much over this thing that I just love.

Josh: So are you visualising or not?

Tommy: What I'm saying is I think that could be the essence of the visualisation. It's not as— it doesn't articulate like The Secret does, like they've articulated, which is, you know, think about where you want to be, start grabbing photos and put them up on the wall, which I think is all a good thing. But I don't think—

Josh: Pete, do you do it?

Tommy: Most things happen. Most visualisation happens in that way. It's not as sexy as it was when I was 7 that I saw the stars and that's what I wanted to do. Maybe for some.

Josh: I don't know.

Peter: What do you think? Maybe for some, but not for me. Certainly not for me. I've been thinking about this a bit recently is looking back at the last 2 years of your life, you could tell a really— you could tell a certain narrative. You know, I could tell a certain narrative about my life using the highlights along the way, or you could tell an equally as true narrative with the lowlights along the way, and you could paint a completely different picture. And it's interesting, the picture we can paint in hindsight, to your point. But I don't— certainly I don't sit there and say, in 2 years' time, that's where I'm going to be, and then look at it. I'm, I'm like the opposite in that sense.

Tommy: Are we wrong? Do you think maybe it's like Because I see Conor McGregor and he's a storyteller at heart. He's fucking— he's the ultimate marketer.

Josh: I don't think I've ever heard him.

Tommy: He's unbelievable. Just the way he demands the attention in the room.

Josh: Is it because— do you think it's the status of knowing that he can beat the shit out of you?

Tommy: It's the way he talks. It's the psychological warfare he plays.

Josh: He's Irish.

Peter: Yeah, really good storyteller.

Tommy: But he's humble in defeat. Humble. Winning. Like, he's just an absolute weapon. Anyway, that's why he makes $85 million for one fight and does something that's never ever been done before— UFC into fighting the world's best boxer, Floyd Mayweather. Anyway, I think, um, but maybe we should be cutting things out. Maybe we should do a, um, maybe we should do a day in the office here. I reckon you'd be around this. Get some old magazines. Oh yeah, and we do a bit of a secret scrapbook. We actually—

Josh: I'd love to scrap.

Tommy: Yeah, we scrapbook, we cut shit.

Josh: Last time you did it was for a fucking presenting role you never got.

Peter: Yeah.

Josh: Did you get rid of that poster you made?

Tommy: I think my mum has one of the photos from it.

Josh: So, what was the— what was it for again?

Tommy: I was literally just trying that, and I've done a lot of these things in my life, trying, and I'm not— I don't want— Yeah, experimenting. I don't— I'm not jaded. I don't— I don't disbelieve. I don't not believe in visualisation, but I don't know if it is as you know, crafty is like getting the, the book and cutting out Bali villa that I want to have one day. I don't know, what do you think?

Peter: I mean, to me it's sort of whatever works for you. I think if people are out there and they believe in that and they do that and it works for them and they get value out of it, like, all the power to you. I don't think there's a right or a wrong way. I think there's each people's version of what works for them. Some people like to sit back and tell a storey in hindsight. Some people like to sit there and say, in 5 years' time, this is exactly where I'm going to be.. And, you know, through various ways of getting there, maybe they end up there and that's awesome. Or maybe they don't, but they change their mind and go, no, no, but this is what I wanted to do anyway. And so you start to like almost confirmation bias as you convince yourself that the steps you took along the way were deliberate to your point. But maybe it was just chance and maybe you just happened to get there and you now can tell a really nice storey using all of the highlights of the last 3 years.

Tommy: Yeah, maybe, Josh, it's like when we're content in what we've got, that allows us to then show, you know, like I think we're in a place where we enjoy what we do. And so maybe you stop then having that approach. Maybe probably the times that I've done the real visualisation is because I'm not happy.

Josh: Well, it's part of the visual.

Tommy: I don't identify as happy in that moment.

Josh: I wonder if the visualized, like us doing our highlights video in some way, it's a visualisation because it seems big, like even though it's using all the materials that we've had, it still feels like having Craig Harper saying, you know, it's going to be one of the biggest podcasts in the world.

Peter: That was a good lead into that video.

Josh: Yeah, it was great, wasn't it? We actually think about it any moment that a guest is saying something nice. Yeah, I'm just thinking, okay, timecode. I'm just looking at 97. No, you're right.

Peter: It's, um, but also I was just going to say, I wonder if that your version of that is you talk a lot about we're going to do this for 10 years and we're going to be here for 10 years and we don't know what's going to happen over the 10 years, but we're going to commit to doing it every day for 10 years. Like, is that your version of visualization?

Tommy: Yeah, visualisation without action is useless. You can't just be in a jail cell visualizing. I mean, actually, Martin Luther King, he got out after a while, but I still think if you don't have— if you don't get off your ass and start working, none of it's gonna come to fruition.

Peter: Yeah, I wrote something recently around how I think inspiration is overrated.

Tommy: You've got a blog, don't you?

Peter: I do.

Tommy: What's that website again?

Peter: Abev.blog, which stands for A Bird's Eye View. Yeah, that blog.

Tommy: Go do it.

Peter: Anyway, so I wrote this thing the other day saying inspiration is overrated because it's fickle and like it relies on some external third party that you have to, what, sit around and wait till you feel inspired? Is like, more important is a process or a practice, which, you know, you guys have in the podcast where you can show up every day and commit to doing that regardless of whether you feel shit, regardless of whether you feel awesome and inspired. It's like, that's how you create change over time, 1% at a time. As opposed to waiting to be struck by inspiration, which may or may not happen.

Tommy: With all the people, uh, that you deal with and speak with and coach, what's the, what's the common pain point that we're all— that you, you see it's just super, super common, if not inevitable, in your pursuit of success?

Peter: I think the biggest one is that everyone is their own roadblock, is everyone is in their way to some degree. And so it's how can you help them get self-aware to realise that they're the ones telling themselves a certain storey that's shaping them in a certain way? And how can you give them the tools and the resources and the ideas to help them realise that and then like still move ahead despite that? So I think it's— there's a couple. I would say one is the fact that we're all in our own way, and two is the fact that everyone feels like an imposter and everyone has no— like no one has a clue what they're doing, and everyone feels like they're making it up, but they don't necessarily realise that other people feel the same way. And so like realising that all of us are scared, all of us are anxious, all of us have imposter syndrome, all of us have doubts and insecurities, and yet some continue to show up every single day and others get crippled by that and don't necessarily move forward. So the difference I think is in how you deal with that, recognising that that's almost like par for the course. You have to accept that that's going to happen. You have to accept that there'll be doubts and insecurities. And so what are you going to do about it?

Tommy: You said, Josh, in our video imposter syndrome. It's good. Like, you need a bit of it. Yeah, I love that moment. I love how I'm looking at you just—

Peter: I totally believe it, you know that?

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: What did you mean? I was wondering because I watched that. I love that what you said, but I want to know what you meant.

Peter: I can't remember.

Josh: I think it's probably in the same vein as like Seth Godin's dip and all that sort of thing. It's like, it's the friction that then creates the action that, you know, feeds the momentum. Yeah.. And so if you don't have that, you're probably in some form of safe zone.

Peter: Yeah, you're hiding. I think I totally agree with you. I've heard Seth talk about this a few times and I've spoken about this a few times in front of audiences and on podcasts is that imposter syndrome is a good thing because it's a sign that you're doing something that you haven't done before. And so like every successful entrepreneur, every thought leader, every person who's done something new was literally an imposter because no one had done it before. So it's like recognising that that's the almost like the growing pain of you getting to where you need to go. And sometimes I tell the storey of— I'm 6'7", I had crippling growing pains growing up, which were shin splints.

Tommy: Oh, I remember old school growing up.

Peter: I mean, do you remember that?

Tommy: I used to be in bed and I remember, yeah, damn, where my shins are so aching. Yeah, so weird, isn't it? Your bones literally fucking—

Josh: literally.

Peter: So I grew like 15 centimetres in a year or something ridiculous. So I like, I couldn't run for a year and I had pain and all that. And so to me that was like you had to go through that in order to be 6'7". And so in order to bring that change that you're working on to the world, you have to go through, I think, mental growing pains which come in the form of doubt, which come in the form of imposter syndrome. So all of this to say, a long rant to say, I agree with your point that imposter syndrome is a good thing.

Josh: It happens with— I think, I think about the gym and stuff like that, and just like the friction of going, or even traveling. Yeah, like part of it is What I love about travelling is getting to a point where you can go to a place and feel somewhat like a local.

Peter: Yeah.

Josh: And then people are expecting though that they can get there and some try like try and sort of somehow hack the system and, and get that straight away. Yeah, it's actually just, you actually just need to have the friction. You need to be the dumb fucking tourist to be culturally insensitive or not understanding things before you can actually fully understand.

Tommy: Uh, Jaco Willeink, is that how you say his name?

Peter: Jaco.

Tommy: Jaco.

Peter: Jaco.

Tommy: I've just heard people say jocko.

Peter: British jocko.

Tommy: I mean, he's far from being—

Peter: he's a scary dude.

Josh: French Reddit. Is it Extreme Ownership?

Tommy: Extreme Ownership. What does he say? Discipline equals freedom. Yeah, I love that. Me too, because it's the discipline to show up in the shit you don't want to do. Yeah, that actually is the stuff you want to do, because even the good stuff, even, you know, even the creative endeavour that you wish to do every single day, you think you do, will be annoying at one point.

Peter: Exactly.

Tommy: And the discipline Because when you do something right, it's like the gym. If you can be disciplined to go even on the days you don't want to, you'll feel good. Yeah, you'll fucking feel accomplished. Whether it's you physically are still tired, but mentally you're like, I'm so proud I did that, I'm so glad I showed up. And then you put it to anything you do. It's so true.

Peter: Yeah, and I think it makes the good days even better. Yeah, yeah. And I like— you guys are a great testament to that over the podcast journey, is some days I'm sure there are podcasts that you do and you both like, I really can't be bothered doing this, but you do it anyway. And then the good days when you're all up and about and having fun and having some banter is like, how good is this?

Josh: Have you ever had any experiences where through coaching you've actually gotten something out of it, like an aha moment for you personally?

Peter: All the time. Yeah, I think this is a, a very lucky part of my job is I, I feel like an imposter all the time because of the people I get to work with. And so by me coaching them, I'm actually learning from their industry as well. So a lot of the industries I work with, I don't necessarily know that well.

Josh: Yeah.

Peter: So I get to learn by way of hearing the people unpack the things that they're working on through the industry. So it happens to me all the time.

Tommy: What, um, what's an industry?

Peter: So that— a fascinating one that I've started to work in a lot through Jen, who's a friend of mine and co-host on the podcast I have, is the performing arts. So I have, I have clients that are Broadway stars in New York, and I know nothing about— I know nothing about performing arts and performing in front of thousands of people every single day. And so working with them allows me to get empathy for what it's like to be a performing artist. And I've learned so much, and I think vice versa, they've learned a lot from, from me. And also what we've realised is we're not that different. You know, you can be a performing artist in front of 1,000 people and be crippled by imposter syndrome, even though you're up there like singing in front of people for like hours. And it just, it sort of blows my mind that they have doubts and insecurities as well.

Josh: I think it's also hard anytime where you're trying to look smart I reckon that's like the other thing that I've noticed in life. Like, the more I try in a situation, the more it sort of backfires.

Peter: Yeah, so I double down on that, and I like, I lean into ignorance where I'm like, I don't have the answer, you have the answer. I don't know your industry, you know your industry.

Josh: It's a good neg as well.

Peter: It's great.

Josh: It's like, well, because then it like, it is, it is true, you don't need to have all the answers, right? And then it can be freeing to be like, oh, actually it's like with the client when they say, how much is this going to cost? And being— we spoke about it yesterday with, you know, quoting and shit, being like, how much have you got? Yeah, what's your budget?

Peter: Yeah, what are you working with?

Josh: And then, I mean, like, that's a fair— it's a fair question, right? And then it creates this awesome dynamic where it becomes a conversation.

Peter: Yeah, because I could go and spend a whole lot of time and come back with this proposal, but if you've got $5,000 to work with, I'm going to come back with a $100,000 proposal. Then it's like, let's have that conversation now.

Josh: Yeah. It's really interesting being a spectator of sports. So if I was to— I'm interested, I want this, like, I feel like I've done it not as gear, but I've spoken previously about I want to get into sport. Yeah. Hasn't really gone anywhere.

Tommy: What does that mean? I want to get into fitness. What does that mean? Well, I just got into sport. Badminton?

Josh: No, like I'm wanting to be a spectator of something. So here's some of the ground rules.

Peter: Yeah.

Josh: Curly, twice it is something that can take maybe twice a week where it's something I can watch on the TV, uh, or I can be out and I can get an update of how it's going.

Tommy: I think, I think we're attracted to things like, why does someone love the footy? There's plenty of reasons, but I know I watch, I end up watching a lot of fight fighting. Like, I watch a lot of UFC stuff, I watch a lot of recaps, I'm into it.

Josh: But then I think about what are you looking for? Like, are you waiting?

Tommy: I just love it. No, I love it. I love— it's a— I used to kickbox and do Muay Thai and boxing when I was young. I was obsessed with Mike Tyson, all this stuff. We're talking about Mike Tyson yesterday or the other day. But I, I just love it. You don't love it. Why don't you love it?

Josh: Well, because I just haven't consumed it, maybe.

Tommy: No, but I don't think that's it. I think there is like Why are you so naturally drawn to working out technical shit and strategy? It's just your cup of tea. Yeah, why do you need sport? You don't fucking need sport. Why do you need another thing?

Josh: Can you just support me on this sport journey? This is why I never make any fucking progress.

Tommy: We need to pick a league and I need to fucking watch it. There's so many— if we're going to go, what are you going to force yourself to do? There's plenty of other things that would be better for you than watching sport. It's funny, less time with Bree.

Peter: It's like a—

Josh: but Bree could—

Tommy: and I could have a team together But then you're worried, then you're only for Bree.

Peter: Poor Bree.

Tommy: Why do you need sport?

Peter: You're gonna force Bree to get into sport as well?

Tommy: Why do you need sport?

Josh: I don't at the moment.

Tommy: But you're saying I want to get into it.

Josh: That's even why I'm finding this even— because I never used to drink and I've just started to get into wine. Jace.

Tommy: Gary Vee.

Josh: Yeah, the empathy wines. No, I've, um, I took the, the wine that Jace gave us Yeah, I know Jase is getting a lot of mentions. I've been criticised for that over the days. You think that I'm—

Tommy: You said some pretty foul words yesterday about, you know, you accused me of saying something pretty disgusting, but we won't say it. No, don't say it, Pete's here.

Josh: No, but it actually sounds like—

Tommy: No, no, no, no, it's disgusting. Pete's audience are here. Let's be, let's be gentlemen.

Peter: So on sport.

Josh: No, sorry, the, um, no, my point being that, uh, wine. I've like started to get into wine and I'll have it like in the evening and it's like, it's a thing. And I'm like, oh my God, this is a relax— like a relaxing thing.

Tommy: Like anxiety, you're looking for an outlet in sport, do you think?

Peter: Yeah, like an outlet.

Josh: Yeah, I think that's maybe one thing. So the thing is that like MTV, um, what's the show, The Hills, right? Like I've— I used to push back on all of this shit, right? I'm like I don't drink, I don't like fucking watch TV unless it's moving me forward. And in the last like 2 weeks, I'm like, I'm gonna watch TV and have a wine. I'm like, oh, like I feel sort of relaxed, like a grown-up. Yeah, I feel like a little bit like a grown-up.

Peter: It's funny though, like just on sport, it to me it sounds like a case of like, you know, the grass is greener on the other side. So I think I'd—

Josh: depends what the league is.

Peter: I mentioned to this to the other day is I was at the footy on Sunday and I had the thought to myself, I wish I cared less about this. What a loser, sitting in the stand watching this game, having no control over it. Yeah, like it goes against everything you talk about, is like focus on things you can control and only spend time on stuff that's going to help you. And it's like, I am so emotionally invested in this thing that I have no control over. I wish I didn't, like I wish I didn't care.

Tommy: But what I'm saying is you— I think it's like it's a natural thing. I think that— I don't know how you'd create that because you're saying I want that, you're saying I want to be into a sport. I don't think it happens by just watching a bit of golf. I think it comes from starting and actually playing the sport and then just being in love with it. And then just—

Josh: I played golf, footy, basketball, t-ball, which we could say is baseball. Yeah, well, it's just like junior.

Peter: I love t-ball, chat.

Tommy: I don't know. There's something in it. There's something where you just can't explain why you're so emotionally connected to it.

Josh: But can I be or no? You're saying no.

Tommy: I don't, I don't, I think it will happen. It's like saying find your, it's like saying come up with your, find, come up with your passion right now. You probably won't know, and maybe you will watch, but you've probably watched.

Josh: But there's heaps of people who don't have hobbies, right? Like, isn't that like a friction point that a lot of people have, which is like I don't know what I'm into.

Tommy: So, come by action.

Josh: And so, that's what I need to work out, which play, which sports I need to go to.

Tommy: We've got finite number of hours in our day. Why do you want to spend it?

Josh: It sounds like you don't want to. No, I don't want to be on the couch. I guess sort of. See what I mean?

Tommy: It's a net.

Peter: Is it more reason to sit on the couch and drink red wine? Is that what you're looking for?

Josh: Yeah, maybe it's like, yeah, it's like another, like, I do put the footy, I do like the sound of that. Like the whistles and like the whole, you know what I mean? Yeah, when you like, you have it on in the background. In the background, that's what I mean.

Peter: What a conversation.

Josh: Yeah, I don't know, but you know what I mean? You sort of get it.

Tommy: I don't.

Josh: You don't have to.

Peter: It's sort of like, how about this, we're trying to manufacture something that isn't there is what I think I'm hearing. Yeah, because that's what you're saying too.

Tommy: Well, I think that's what he's trying to do, but maybe, I don't know.

Josh: Maybe it's like some more social sort of things.

Tommy: Yeah, what are you craving? Social?

Josh: No, because I don't want to go— I think it's— you've nailed that on the head with the couch thing, really, isn't it? It's the couch. It's just a Friday night chill out. Yeah, but it's also like it—

Tommy: I don't think— this is not a criticism to you, Josh, but you like to have— you like to officiate things. You like to— this is— I think it's the same with like what we do with the daily talk show bits, and like you love to sort of create labels for them and names for them and sort of, which I think can be—

Josh: I have a strong friendship with Jase. Best friends.

Tommy: I think can be counter to doing the thing because it's like there's a piece of work done in— right now what we do with this show is we do these things called TDS, TDTS bits, and this is what that means. But it's like fucking head down and start. And so I don't think you do—

Josh: I do like defining things.

Tommy: You do like to define things, but that's what I'm saying. You're trying to define, I want to love for sport, and it's like you're trying to define it, but you should find it. You should just start doing a few things and maybe that will happen more naturally than trying to go, right, this is what I'm now going to be doing. It's like really calculated. It's like when you said, didn't you think about what you want, why you wanted a baby? It's like, dude, you wouldn't have one if you probably thought it all the way through. Yeah, you just kind of have these things. And look, there's a couple of cronks, there's 5, 6 of us in this room right now. I just wanted to flex that there was a few more. Yeah, there's actually 7.

Peter: There's bleachers.

Josh: There's 7, everybody. Yeah, there's a real presence. That couch is full, let's just say that. Um, okay, so you want me— because it's funny, it's not even shtick at this point, like the sport thing I'm serious about. Okay. I think part of it was like Bree and I were walking on along East Melbourne. Actually, I think this could have something to do with it. Well, um, Dyl, can you give Bree the mic and explain, Bree, what happened when we were in East Melbourne coming back from Laurent the other Oh, when someone—

Tommy: everyone was coming back from a footy game and they asked us who won. Is that what you're talking about?

Josh: Yes.

Tommy: They asked you guys who won. Yeah, I said, I have no idea. But then Josh said Hawthorn.

Josh: Nice.

Tommy: And they did.

Josh: And Bree's like, how did you know? And they're like, thank you, I saw it on Instagram.

Tommy: Okay.

Josh: And I was like, fuck, I need to be more tapped in.

Peter: So here we go, we've stumbled across what it is. Josh liked feeling useful in that moment. Yeah, you want to be able to provide that to other people.

Josh: There was the elderly people who were like really invested, like, hey, what— who won.

Tommy: And I just don't think when a junkie asked me for a lighter that I should be carrying lighters from now on. I don't need to carry lighters, dude. I don't smoke.

Josh: I don't smoke.

Tommy: Don't need to carry lighters from now on.

Josh: But you could have lighters.

Tommy: I know what you mean. You gotta find your own thing. How did—

Josh: what it—

Tommy: for you, Pete, what do you— other than just being a CrossFit god, what do you do? What's your thing?

Peter: You know, I've heard you talk about this a few times and how it's hard to sit and pause and be like, what are my hobbies? And when you said that, I was like, I just like— I so agree with that. And we've talked before about how if you love your work, it doesn't feel like work. And so is that a hobby?

Josh: Well, if you guys fucking thought about it like I did, you'd work it out, wouldn't you? Yeah, go on.

Peter: So I think there's things like football. To me is very— I get interested in that.

Josh: I've played— team, can I guess? Oh, you said Geelong.

Peter: I didn't say Geelong.

Josh: I thought you were a Melbourne guy.

Tommy: No, because he grew up down the coast.

Peter: Geelong is my team.

Tommy: I know, you do the other way.

Peter: No, no, down in Ocean Grove, so just past Geelong. So that's my team. I play golf with friends every now and then, and I go to the gym, you know, to your point, CrossFit.

Josh: What's your handicap?

Peter: Oh, 19, 20, I think.

Josh: Not great, not great.

Peter: And so they're, I guess, they're to me probably the closest things I can think of as hobbies. But other than that, it's, you know, to our point, I love my work, I love podcasting, I love writing, I love, like, I love reading.. And so, I guess they're hobbies. And what's interesting is like the older I get, the more I lean into those and speak about those. And I feel like growing up, and maybe you can relate to this, is like there's this idea that you need to paint a picture that you're cool and cool kids don't love reading books in their spare time and cool kids don't love, you know, doing certain things.

Tommy: And so, like— Cool kids don't like super.

Peter: Right. Super. So boring.

Josh: Why would I talk about that? And so, like, I've probably like A scam.

Peter: Leant into that more recently than in the past.

Tommy: Having your buckets is cool.

Peter: Buckets.

Tommy: No, but literally, I think being financially independent is fucking cool these days. Yeah, but maybe it's just because we're older, you know, we know it's kind of like it's— there is freedom in being financially free.

Josh: Why do you think I'm cool?

Tommy: Uh, definitely not for sport.

Josh: What is it then?

Tommy: I think your knowledge, your knowledge around the shit that you obsess over, and that shit is the fucking strategy, the online stuff, the video. I think, yeah, you do. I think you're pretty lucky that you're doing a— you picked something a long time ago, whether it's luck or whether it's just—

Josh: I don't know, it was my version of an MCC membership.

Tommy: Yeah, you just picked up a video camera. It's been— it's pretty cool to be a person that can do videos.

Peter: That's really cool. I think the other thing that's cool, honestly, is—

Josh: this is great, by the way.

Peter: This is one of the things I think that makes you cool, Josh. Do you want me to look down the camera? Yeah, snippet.

Josh: Get this as a snippet. Timecode.

Peter: You are unapologetically— Unapologetically—

Tommy: We need a clean.

Josh: We need a clean.

Tommy: And action.

Josh: And say my name at the start.

Peter: Josh, one of the things that makes you cool—

Josh: I laughed over that. Do it again.

Peter: Josh, one of the things that makes you cool is you are unapologetically you. And I think there are so many people out there, myself included, certainly in the past, that struggle with how you show up in certain settings. And we just mentioned this of like trying to be cool, trying to not say things because you're worried about what other people think of you. And I look at you and think you are someone from where I stand that is so good at just being comfortable being yourself. And I think that's the coolest of traits.

Josh: Well, thank you, Pete.

Peter: That was a bit serious.

Josh: But do you think that— so, but is— do you think more people are thinking about, I want to get into a sport thing, maybe just don't articulate it or talk about it?

Tommy: But what, how would they, what would it be then if you don't, if you can't articulate it, talk about what, how would you, people just do it, I guess. Well, you start doing things, you start, look at this, right? We do this every single day. What if we did a bike ride along the Yarra, not as like down the tracks, and went to the jump park and just hung out? Like, I hung out at the skate park as a kid for hours and hours and hours. I was into it. Yeah, I can now pick up a skateboard and do a grind. In fact, in 50/50.

Peter: That's cool.

Tommy: I could drop in at the bowl, like, but I, but I don't have the interest now that I did once when I was in Shepparton. I had this— did you know I was on radio?

Josh: Really?

Tommy: You guys on the couch?

Josh: Is your neck okay with the chip that's being developed on your shoulder?

Tommy: No, but I actually went and bought a skateboard. Mate, I've been having the same conversations for the last 10 years, the hobby thing on radio.

Josh: We've only got like 5 thoughts.

Peter: 5 thoughts.

Tommy: Anyway, so it was about the hobby stuff, and I was like, as a kid, I love skateparks. I love being at the skatepark. There was just a bowl. It was like a shitty skatepark when we grew up. Now they're just millions of dollars spent on them, and this one in Shepparton's fucking epic. Yeah, epic. So I went and bought a skateboard. I was then hanging out at the skatepark by myself with these young gronks, and it was so funny. It was like intimidating. And it was— I was out of my comfort zone and I was trying to learn this thing, falling over, you know, still could do it. But I remember the other kids and just sort of— I took Bodhi to the skate park on the weekend.

Peter: Oh, those videos.

Tommy: Yeah, what a rock star. And he— and there's kids flying around everywhere. And I just remember there's like, there's rules at the skate park. Don't fucking drop in on me. It's like surfing.

Josh: Surfing's the same.

Tommy: Don't drop in on me, you know. Um, I'm in, like, you start— there's phrases and stuff. So there's like these little micro worlds.

Josh: It's like culture, I guess. Maybe I'm obsessed with like different cultures. And so like I bought a bike and got, um, Lycra and did all that.

Tommy: Are you obsessed with cultures? You're obsessed with the— you're obsessed with cultures outside of the culture. Because the thing about the subculture of skating, you've got to get through the barrier of like other little gronks fucking looking at you badly and like, oh, you shit, you dropped in on me. And then the funny thing was I kind of penetrated this subculture.

Peter: Nice.

Tommy: And one of them, I did this, I was trying this trick constantly, and he just looks over and he's like, sick, that's sick, bro. And he just gave me recognition. I was fucking— this 11-year-old had rattled me.

Josh: And you're in Shepparton, this was like—

Peter: I was 23, 24.

Tommy: I was like, I'm finally accepted. But it's This is the thing, if you wanted to get into cycling, there's a world you need to enter. Yeah, the sports thing, there's two— there's like a— this more of a, more of a culture, not even a subculture. AFL in Australia. Yeah, but these things— so that's where it defined whether it's an interest in cultures from the outside. I love seeing the— like, it's weird, I love looking at— oh my God, I don't even understand that. But then to be a part of that culture and yeah, the subculture is a different thing because it takes pain. It takes, you know, discipline to actually enter it into it and make it a thing.

Josh: Yeah, I get it.

Peter: Yeah, I think this is something you guys are doing with the Daily Talk Show, by the way, is creating a place where people want to go to, to feel like they belong. I think that's what we're talking about, is these communities, these groups, these subcultures are places where people feel like they can belong. They can go there, they can be themselves, and they feel like they are accepted. And they can co-create these spaces. And what I think is interesting is you guys are doing this with the Gronk Squad, and whether you realise it or not, it's like you're creating a group of people who feel like they belong and they are connected by— instead of being the skatepark, they're connected by the daily talk show.

Tommy: And that's pretty low-level entry.

Peter: That's pretty cool. Be a Gronk and listen to our podcast.

Josh: You're already one. I mean, could we maybe— maybe it's— maybe I'm overthinking still, but maybe it could be a thing that as a show The Gronk Squad. What does the Gronk Squad like in regards to sports? What's our league of choice?

Tommy: I, I don't want to put a label onto it. I like fighting. I don't need you to be into fighting.

Josh: Okay, can we do something?

Tommy: You know that I was in the back of Matt DiVella's car in LA while you— I think Bree was in the back with me. No, we were all in the back. Did you know what I was doing on my phone? I was trying viciously to find the live stream of Conor McGregor versus Khabib.. And I was just like, but I, for me to be so interested to just be searching through live feeds, I was like, oh God, lost it. That's what that was on there for a little bit. I have to be pretty into it, but I don't need you to be doing that. So it's like, I did that with about North Korea for a while.

Josh: Absolutely obsessed with North Korea. With North Korea, wasn't I? I think Bri could agree. Was I or was I not into North Korea?

Tommy: You were obsessed. Like YouTube videos, documentaries, reading, anything you can imagine. What's it good for?

Peter: What did you learn?

Tommy: It's an interesting one. What is it for?

Josh: Yeah, I mean, it was just an— it was just a— yeah, but I just had CNN on. Fuck, how much time did I spend on CNN, like watching CNN?

Tommy: I can't even count.

Josh: A lot. Yeah, I would— yeah, watch a lot of CNN. Are you better for it? I don't retain huge amounts of information, but I hear news bits about what's happening and I'm like, oh, It reminds me of like there was a time where I'd be editing and I would have like, especially when it was, there was a high amount of tension, especially October, not last year, the year before, like people weren't even going to Japan and shit. Do you remember that? They're like fucking canceling, cancelling their holidays.

Tommy: We had a guy that had travelled to North Korea on this show. He said it was fine, but I mean, he might have said it might have all been a show.

Josh: It was, you know. Well, yeah, he was part of a tourism. Yeah.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: So that's one thing that I've been obsessed with.

Tommy: The— I think you need the discipline to actually stick at these things. Do you want it enough? Because why— like, we want this enough, so we do it enough. What is it?

Josh: Well, yeah, what can our 10,000 hours— how many 10,000-hour things can you have?

Tommy: What's something that you do, Pete, that you— we wouldn't really know about that you've spent a lot of time on? Are you pretty open book?

Peter: Fairly open book.

Tommy: I mean, you stand out, so it's hard.

Josh: What'd you do to your thumb?

Peter: I don't know, actually. I cut myself preparing dinner last night and I just noticed it this morning. So okay, there's a Band-Aid for those wondering.

Josh: Yeah, yeah.

Peter: Uh, my— the thing that would surprise you— I don't know if it would surprise you, I think they're pretty open— is the podcasting.

Tommy: What about interest? So like, I find I've got quite a general knowledge on— and who— BMAC, who we've got on tomorrow, is He's fucking so fascinating. He knows so much about rap music, singers, just that culture. It's phenomenal.

Josh: Maybe radio stuff. Like, I think that's maybe an obsession.

Peter: You know a lot about radio. Like, I know nothing about radio.

Tommy: You'll never hear me saying I'm trying to get my head around radio. Yeah, but it's something you'll hear Josh. And what does that mean? I don't fucking even know what that means. Radio, the medium, like the people in it. But it actually is something. It's like a bit of a project that you love.

Josh: Well, I'm trying to work out like, okay, every market in the world. Who's listening to radio? Who are the best radio talents in the world? Who are doing cool shit in, you know, Drive in fucking Cleveland or something like that?

Tommy: How about this? These are the things that we naturally gravitate towards, that whether they benefit us or not is another thing. I think the radio thing for you, that little project, it benefits us definitely. The North Korea thing, I don't know how much benefit there is in that for you as a person. You can't just— feels like from the shit you read. Yeah, but what about the things that don't benefit us but we, we really should be doing them? So we look to go— the, the equation is I have an interest in them, it's that sort of initial gets me there to then work it out. But what about—

Josh: isn't that like wine? Like, that's what I wonder, things like wine.

Tommy: It's too easy, dude. It's just you're, you're taking in a substance that's altering your mindset. That's why I've tried to not do alcohol this year. I haven't tried, I've haven't had a sip.

Josh: But you have been trying though.

Tommy: I've been trying. It is a constant battle to—

Josh: I'd like to have a glass, but there's a culture around wine too, don't you think?

Peter: Huge.

Tommy: 100%.

Josh: Yeah, yeah, yeah. But it's different to beer or different to like other things, right?

Peter: Yeah, there's all these little cultures of footy culture, beer culture, wine culture, coffee culture.

Tommy: But I think it's easy drinking alcohol and feeling fucking a bit fruity and just a bit tingly, feeling like warm. Oh, Yeah, feeling good. You know, that's what I feel like. You feel it in your blood. I fucking— you know when you have a glass of wine, you just like, you're warm, you just sort of sink in.

Josh: So what's the bad thing?

Tommy: Dom's on the couch looking, he knows what I'm talking about.

Josh: I mean, what is it like? What is—

Tommy: I'm saying that's easy. So you're saying this wine thing, you can get into it? I'm saying the shit that's hard for you, it's exercise, actually, like gym, or— and that's a hard thing.

Josh: As soon as Jason says he's going to the gym, that you need to do, like So you're saying things that are actually good for us that we need to do that we don't do.

Tommy: And so that's why, how do you find the discipline to do those fucking things?

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: Hey guys, it's Dom from HR here.

Josh: Hi, Dom.

Tommy: Just finishing my lunch over here and just, great show, by the way.

Peter: Thank you.

Tommy: Long time listener. I want to know though, Josh, when you got asked by that person who won the game, did you feel left out?

Josh: No, I felt the opposite in that moment. I was like, I was like, oh, you know what? The crowd, we're all walking as a crowd. If anything, I was like, Bree, I wish you'd fucking knew who won. You know, it was a bit of that, which is like, which is like—

Tommy: included— disappointed.

Josh: Well, no, I did. I'm not disappointed in Bree, but I was like, you know what, this is what it feels like a little bit to be a part of something. Yeah, I was like, you know what, like if I— maybe if I was to live in Richmond or something like that.

Tommy: Bree's confused.

Josh: What? I mean, what are you thinking, Breezer?

Tommy: I have no idea what I'm thinking.

Josh: Okay, but like the rich—

Tommy: like, if I was— do you mind moving to a— if I go for Richmond and because I want to, and then I can move there.

Josh: No, if I live in Richmond, I'd be closer to all this.

Tommy: I can get the t-shirt, you know, the whole experience. You're the boss of the Gronk Squad, bro. You're the CEO.

Josh: Am I the boss?

Tommy: Well, you're up there with me.

Josh: Can we get that as a sticker?

Tommy: No, but I think this is what you're creating, something you're—

Josh: yeah, whether you're like a part of it, you're actually bringing people into something. That's why there's something I like about like Where Bri and I live is like opposite a beer— it's not a garden. There's no garden. What's that called?

Tommy: That's a brewery.

Josh: Brewery.

Tommy: Yeah. Urban Brewery.

Josh: I like, like watching and seeing people drink and just not partaking, but just being at home being like, I enjoy that. I know it's weird, isn't it?

Tommy: Oh yeah. I mean, you're seeing—

Josh: But it always comes back to the gym.

Tommy: Include me.

Josh: No, I don't want to. But the thing is, I would hate to Like there is a bit which is like, I like that. Like, I don't get it. Like, I don't like going out that much. So it's like, I don't want to. It's that weird thing of it. No one ever wants to go anywhere, but we all want to be invited.

Tommy: If we picked something each that we should, that we aren't doing that we want to be doing, what is it? What's it for you, P-Dawg?

Peter: I think it's probably P-Dawg.

Josh: Does anyone call you P-Dawg?

Peter: Never in my life. But I like it. I'm into it. I'll lean into that. So I think it's probably I'm a terrible, terrible planner.

Tommy: Planner for?

Josh: You talk about this on—

Peter: Planning the future. Like Chelsea will be like, oh, we should plan a holiday for February. And I'll just like instantly get anxiety.

Tommy: Yeah.

Peter: And I know that in the interests of our relationship and the collaborations I do with other people, that if I was better at planning, it would be helpful. And I avoid it actively.

Tommy: Do you— Is the opposite— Is the person that doesn't plan um, gets to the time, goes, fuck, let's do something now, and wants to be more spontaneous.

Peter: Yeah, I think that's probably more me.

Josh: Are you spontaneous?

Peter: Yeah, I think so. Yeah, more so than I am a planner. I'm not like the most spontaneous, spontaneous guy in the world, but I'm more of a spontaneous person than I am a planner.

Tommy: Yeah, no, I'm the same. I've, I've got that, like, I always come— it wraps around to New Year's and I'm just like, fuck, we should have booked a house to go away.

Peter: Exactly.

Tommy: But if we did it 6 months ago, it would have made so much more sense and been cheaper. But I want to do it now. Yeah, but it's weird.

Peter: I didn't want to do it 6 months ago, right?

Tommy: I know, but then you don't have the money to fucking buy the $3,000 a week house.

Peter: I'm with you. I know it would be helpful.

Josh: Yeah.

Peter: And yet I still can't bring myself to do it.

Josh: I can't work out whether I'm a planner or not.

Tommy: Um, I mean, you plan— actually, you went away for 3, 4 months. Yeah, that was a big— you planned shit.

Josh: I mean, yeah, no, we planned that we planned that we were going.

Peter: You were pretty spontaneous on that trip from what I gathered. It's like, we haven't booked our accommodation yet, we're figuring it out.

Tommy: I mean, I just don't know what So I know what Bri actually did versus what Josh told us. So I'll just—

Josh: I was like, I was spontaneous to whatever Bri had organized. That's a way of describing it. You know what I mean? Like, no, but I was like detached. I was like, you know what, where do we want to go? The only thing that I actually booked was Amsterdam. That was for an IBC conference, like all about gear and stuff.

Peter: Yeah.

Tommy: See, there's your love. That's what you love.

Peter: Yeah, so you plan things around things that you like.

Tommy: Yeah. What's it for you, Josh? I don't know, something you don't want to do, you know you should do it, you know you kind of want to do it, but then there's like the exercise thing.

Josh: Yeah, definitely.

Tommy: Just forming that habit, that daily.

Josh: Yes, I think it's part of it. Part of it is about like combining it with something else.

Tommy: Like, is this just complicating the thing that's hard? Like, so you're trying to work out how to make it easier, right? Because it's hard. It's hard to show up, like mixing it in with something, doesn't it? It's just like, I'm trying to—

Josh: it's like, well, so like Pete and I, my walks, like one of my favourite things I do during the week.

Tommy: Yeah, but then what about if Pete can't make it? And then I don't go on a walk. Like, the training partner thing I get is so fucking helpful when I've had one a lot of my life. Not recently because it hasn't been a part of my plan. My plan was every second day I'll do something regardless. No 2 days off, and I've hardly trained with somebody for those times.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: And that's not ideal.

Peter: How do you find that?

Tommy: Yeah, it's not ideal, and I don't train as hard as I do with somebody else, but that's not my goal. My goal is to show up. And so I'm just saying, how do you just go not, not, not connecting it with somebody?

Josh: Yeah, because people— so August, so start of the month. Yeah, because I was thinking that, like, what could, what could that be? Yeah, I'm not sure. I mean, this is the problem when you've had so many— like, I've had a lot of gym memberships in my life.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: And so then it's hard, like, you don't want to call— you, you constantly call bullshit on anything that you could potentially have come up with in your head because, you know, you've fucking tried everything.

Tommy: We know the— it's the, the answer isn't the gym membership. We know all the things that aren't the answer.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: So then it's like, what if I can move more?

Peter: What else could you experiment?

Tommy: Yeah, I don't know what it is. I'm not trying to answer it for you or say you're dumb for not— like, it's I get it.

Peter: But I think it's interesting, we all have these things that we know we should be doing more of and we don't, even though we know that they benefit us or benefit our partners.

Josh: That's why I think like even the red wine thing, it's not really a thing. It shouldn't really be a thing. Like I was thinking about it, like in regards to like, if I was to make something, if I was to create a new habit, it's sort of like people who start smoking at 30. Who the fuck is that person? Is that true?

Peter: Do people do that?

Tommy: Yeah, one of Amy's best friends.

Josh: Really? She was 30.

Peter: Wow.

Josh: It's full on.

Tommy: It's like, what a strange habit to pick up. Haven't seen the packets.

Josh: Yeah. And the same person picks the packet that is based on the disease that's on the front.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: Are you kidding me?

Peter: Oh my God.

Tommy: Can I just have the—

Josh: can I have the eye cancer one?

Tommy: Yeah, the eye one.

Josh: Oh wow. There's something a bit, uh, satanistic about that potentially.

Tommy: It's just, it's, it's not listening to yourself. If we learn anything from Harps, it's fucking listen to your body. What is that? Listen to your body. That's not like— I think about me drinking as a human.

Josh: If you listen to the body, nicotine, like what you were describing with alcohol. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's like, it's like there is something, like there is—

Peter: my body tells me I want more nicotine.

Josh: Yeah, yeah.

Tommy: But I've not listened to my body a lot in my life when I've been drinking alcohol. The choices I make when I'm on alcohol, drinking alcohol when I haven't felt great, it's not that great for you when you're you know, like all these things. This is not listening to your body at a small level that we can brush off because you end up surviving. Yeah, but yeah, on that bigger level, it's, um, it's interesting.

Peter: Yeah, it is.

Josh: So maybe hockey. Maybe. I think the hockey, the hockey one I like because of the fashion and the style.

Peter: Ice hockey or just regular hockey?

Josh: 3D Dill, if I'm to do hockey, what sort of hockey? Ice hockey all the way. It's the only way to do hockey. Can you imagine Josh playing? No, Josh, Josh, you would die. Really? I'm being dead serious. Why? It's, it's a violent physical game. Yeah, I could be quite violent. This guy's skating around at like 30 kilometres an hour shooting a puck that goes in upwards of 100 kilometres an hour. Okay, yeah, sure.

Tommy: It's unbelievable.

Josh: I think I could die. I think I could get into the at least spectator.

Tommy: He needs to watch this podcast back. Yeah. Anyway, that's the Daily Talk Show. Thank you so much, Pete.

Josh: Thanks for having me. The Long and the Short of It, uh, on Apple Podcasts. Definitely cheque it out. The latest one is on All about the planning.

Peter: It is actually about planning, which we spoke about, which is, which is fine.

Tommy: We'll see you tomorrow, guys.

Josh: Bye. I won't do that again. So