Citizen's Arrest With Peter Shepherd

Tommy: It's The Daily Talk Show, episode 324, and we got the deep-voiced man back in the building.

Peter: Hello everybody, Periscope.

Tommy: Yeah, I was gonna say, that's definitely not Mr. 97, that's Periscope Pete.

Peter: Thanks for having me.

Josh: Are you okay with that nickname, the Periscope Pete? Did we talk about it last time?

Peter: We didn't, but I don't mind it. I think, like, I've referred to myself as the human Periscope, but I kind of like that you Took it another level.

Tommy: I thought we took it off the website.

Josh: No, no, you changed it up. Did I?

Peter: Yeah, yeah, I like it.

Tommy: How are you, Pete?

Peter: Excellent. I'm thrilled to be here. Third time, I think. And Josh mentioned that once you get on 3 times, you're officially a friend of the show.

Tommy: Oh, this is perfect because we were actually trying to work this out. So it's Fat Fridays. Yeah, we're waiting for some food to be delivered. It says it's 4 minutes away.

Josh: Don't show Pete what it is.

Tommy: No, I won't show you what it is. So, um, we were trying to work out which we want to build. We need a name for people who have come on to the show more than just a few times.

Josh: So DJ pushed back on friend of the show because he's like, people who have been on less than 3 times are still friends of the show. Yeah.

Tommy: But then it's like the initiation once you get beyond the 3. Not that it's like some huge achievement.

Josh: It's like some sort of filthy sort of initiation where you—

Peter: Is it separate to the cult that you've been creating?

Tommy: Yeah, it's totally separate to the cult. We needed this distance from the cult. That's very special. So there was two names. Josh came up with one and I came up with one. We won't say which they are.

Josh: Okay, okay. But it's whose was whose, whose was whose, because there could be some biases.

Peter: This is like the coffee test all over again.

Josh: Yeah, exactly.

Tommy: Yeah, we got you with that one.

Josh: So the two names were— yeah, you say—

Tommy: yeah, I'll say it— Gronk Squad.

Peter: Oh, came up with that one.

Tommy: Or Team Gronk.

Josh: So which do you like more, the Gronk Squad or Team Gronk?

Tommy: Which becomes our Beliebers, essentially.

Peter: I think Gronk Squad.

Tommy: Gronk Squad? Yeah, hashtag Gronk Squad.

Josh: Okay.

Peter: I like it.

Tommy: Mr. 97, what were you thinking?

Peter: Team Gronk Squad.

Tommy: Okay, so we got—

Josh: Well, see, I said—

Peter: This is not helpful.

Josh: I said Gronk Squad.

Tommy: Hang on, hang on, which one do you think— Who do you think came up with which?

Peter: I think TJ came up with Gronk Squad and you came up with Team Gronk.

Josh: Interesting. You fucked it again.

Tommy: Ah, opposite way. Geez, we got him again. He's failed a few tests. You couldn't identify the long black from 7-Eleven.

Josh: Early days.

Tommy: So yeah, I came up with Team Gronkh and Joshie Boy came out with Gronkh Squad. My pushback on Gronkh Squad was that the term squad is trying to be cool and it's, it's been ruined by a whole bunch of kids at primary schools.

Josh: I'm just—

Peter: squads.

Tommy: Yeah, yeah, they've just created their squad and so it's almost as shit as the dab. You know, the dab is—

Josh: he just did a dab. I just turned that into a GIF.

Tommy: I was not being serious when I was— I was mocking the dab.

Peter: But that's all you could do, double down on the mock, I reckon. Yeah, call it a squad.

Josh: I think that's it.

Tommy: Yeah, the dab's dead. At least Team Gronkh could be—

Peter: but could you imagine the squad and footage of all of us dabbing at the same time? That could be— that's a good idea.

Josh: Have you ever—

Tommy: there's one tryhard amongst us. We don't need to—

Josh: can you— can we see Can you try? I can try. Yeah, you might have to stand up to do it.

Peter: He's gonna flop.

Tommy: What is this?

Josh: You guys know how to do this?

Tommy: I don't know how to do this.

Josh: So this is a video, this is on— go to our YouTube channel if you want to see.

Peter: Have you ever done this? I have no idea.

Tommy: Can I just say, be careful of the PowerPoint behind.

Josh: Yeah, okay, here we go. So this is Periscope Pete. Do you know how to do it? No. All right, give it a go. What do you think it is?

Peter: Sort of like this.

Tommy: Oh yeah, get some hips into it. Oh yeah, you're the Backpack Kid. You're the Backpack Kid. He came out with it.

Peter: Yeah, you nailed it.

Tommy: You know, I think you actually nailed it. It's because of how tall you are. The Backpack Kid is like a— he's not— he wouldn't be as tall as you, but he has that sort of wirey type.

Josh: Who is the Backpack Kid?

Tommy: He's the kid that came up with it. He's the kid that made the floss big.

Peter: Oh really?

Tommy: The Backpack Kid. You know, Mr. 97. He's— yeah, yeah, you, you guys are so far removed from pop culture.

Josh: We're just a squad trying to get I'm living in this world, which is why I don't think we go with squad.

Tommy: This is— anyway, jury's out. We will work it out. We've had, um, 2, 2, 2 versus 2 so far, so we'll find out. Whatever majority rules. I don't mind squad.

Peter: I like the idea though that everyone's a friend.

Josh: Yes.

Peter: And then you get that next level, which is 3.

Josh: The Gronks.

Peter: Or you're embracing it.

Tommy: No, I'm just saying both.

Josh: Well, Pete's even gotten into the, um, uh, domain names. The other day. We were going for a walk on a Wednesday. Yeah. And he sent me— what was it? Wednesdaywalk.com. Yeah, which is available. Oh, this is perfect. Yeah, thanks, guys.

Tommy: Oh my God, can we get a cameo? What is this, mate? Do you want to come on?

Josh: Do we come on camera and deliver?

Tommy: He's getting out.

Josh: He's got to go. Yeah, thank you.

Peter: He wants a good rating for his next—

Josh: yeah, no, we get it.

Peter: I get it. 5-star.

Tommy: I don't think you give him 5— do you give him star ratings?

Josh: I would never give anyone Star Stars. So what we have, uh, I mentioned on the show— no, I mentioned on the show, uh, I believe yesterday, we have chimichangas for all of us.

Peter: I have no idea what it is. Yeah, well, I heard you describe it, I still didn't understand what it was.

Josh: Yeah, so it is a, uh, I believe it's a burrito. Okay, that's been deep fried. So real healthy, guys. It's Fat Friday.

Tommy: No, you're right, you're right. And when you think deep fried, you think it's going to come out like a battered sav or something.

Josh: Smells so good. Be careful with the lid. So it's designed— the way they do it is it's in like a, one of those foil trays, but then the cardboard lid has a tendency to get a lot of the goodness stuck on top.

Tommy: So seal it off.

Peter: Sticky lid.

Tommy: Sticky lid.

Peter: Maybe that's the title of the Gronk Squad.

Josh: The Sticky Lid Club.

Tommy: Oh, that does smell amazing. Pete, what does it smell like? What is this?

Peter: Smells very deep fried.

Josh: Have you got yours 97?

Peter: I mean, I'm a fan of Mexican.

Tommy: You are?

Peter: I just, I'm not sure about the deep frying on top.

Tommy: I'd never heard of a deep fried burrito, but if there was one of my friends who knew about it, it's Josh.

Josh: Josh, yeah, I'm sure it would be something like this. And so do you cook Mexican at home?

Peter: Not quite as much as Mr. 97, by the sound of it. Yeah, I like to keep it pretty simple. Yeah, meat and veg.

Tommy: Shit, I've just, um, I totally forgot what we did and what we tried and attempted to do on one of the episodes, which was to call you. Oh yeah, and connect you with who, who we would have hoped you thought was your girlfriend. Can you tell us, can you tell us about what happened and what your girlfriend emailed us about?

Peter: Okay, yeah, so Chelsea, shout out, she sent you guys an email I think after you said Who is it that wouldn't call each other on the phone? I think, and you were sort of laughing with 97 about no one uses phones anymore.

Tommy: Yeah, well, it's his generation. I was really sort of encouraging him to get on to the blower, get on the blower, call.

Josh: Have you heard, Pete, have you heard anyone call it a blower before? Yes.

Tommy: Yeah, yeah, it's different.

Josh: Is it okay that I'm staying to eat my chimichanga? Go for it.

Tommy: You've never asked for permission, so why ask now? It's your show, bro. It's your show too, so just do what you want. But yeah, so I was always encouraging like I've seen the younger generation just totally glued to their Messenger. Like, I've received from young people— that sounds weird— Facebook messages over, like, about work. I've hired them to be a part of film shoots and they message me on Facebook. I'm like, bro, you're lucky I checked that. Far out.

Peter: Sorry, give me a call.

Tommy: Yeah, so that's what I— that's what you heard.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: And then Chels—

Peter: Chels sent you an email confirming that her and I have never spoken on the phone before.

Josh: And you've been together for 2 years? 3 years. 3 years.

Peter: 3 years.

Tommy: So, uh, you live together? No, no, you don't live together. Um, is this an over-the-internet relationship? Have you ever met?

Josh: Yeah, he's being catfished. Um, and so was there an actual discussion around, uh, the potential that you might start using the phone? I tried calling you today, you didn't answer.

Peter: Yeah, so I have, I have anxiety about phone calls. Okay, essentially what I boil it down to. In fact, it's almost— I think it's in our family. We have a joke about having to make phone calls is like one of the scariest, hardest things you could possibly do.

Tommy: And where does this come from, like, other than it being a family thing?

Peter: I honestly have no idea. It's just like back from as young as I can remember where it's like, oh, you got to call the health insurance company and sort out, you know, oh my God, it's the scariest thing ever. To the point where when I was working in corporates and startups and I was looking after clients and I have to call them, I'd like get myself a meeting room, pace around for 20 minutes, yeah, build myself up to call this person and end up having a great conversation with them. Whatever it is, I don't know what it is, it just gives me this like huge anxiety.

Tommy: I feel like you're a guy that leans into it though, but that in my mind that wouldn't seem to bring the result of getting rid of that. But you lean into it, but it's always there, so it's never gone, it's never gone.

Josh: What about Skype and Zoom?

Peter: This is the weird thing, is Zoom Oh, I'm all about it. I love it. The video conferencing, totally fine. Absolutely fine with that. It's something, I don't know what it is. It's something about having to do a phone call just completely freaks me out.

Tommy: Prank call gone wrong when you were young? Just so tough.

Josh: There were a few actually.

Peter: I don't know if I've like suppressed that, but we did used to do a little bit of prank calling.

Josh: Really?

Peter: I remember getting in trouble from one time we were calling, I don't know, one of the girlfriends that we, or one of the girls that we all had a crush on in grade 3 or something. And we called her and her mom answered.

Tommy: Oh yeah.

Peter: And was like, you kids, stop calling this number. And it was, I think maybe, It might stem from that.

Josh: Well, I remember having called— when I got caller ID, I was just seeking the prank callers. I wanted them to— I was just standing on— yeah. And I remember I had, uh, my friend, uh, Robert called me, but he was calling me from Lachlan's phone number. So I said, uh, hello. And he's like, oh hey, it's Rob. And then the conversation started and he said, oh, what do you think of Lachlan?

Tommy: By the way, Lachlan's listening.

Josh: Yeah, he was listening on the other thing, and so I hung up and they called back and my mum picked up and she said, "If you want to be Josh's friend, be his friend. Otherwise, stop calling." Geez. So Lynn's got my back.

Peter: My feedback to you just on that was one of my favourite things about the show is when you impersonate your mum. Yeah, thank you for doing that in the flesh.

Josh: I know, it's a unique experience.

Tommy: It's a great experience meeting her personally.

Peter: What I hadn't said seeing was the facial expression when he does it. It's, yeah, it's really made eye contact.

Josh: Yeah, there's an intensity to it.

Tommy: YouTube.com/TheDailyTalkShow.

Josh: Try the chimichanga. You're gonna have to use it.

Peter: This is a thing we actually, we genuinely eat on it.

Tommy: You can eat, I'll talk. So there's, uh, so prank calls, uh, what, it was a different era of the landline. Mr. 97, do you know what a landline is? Yeah, barely. Do you have a landline at your home? No, you don't. So you're a—

Peter: does anyone still?

Tommy: Uh, my mum and dad do.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: Um, other than that, nah.

Josh: Is it the same number as your household, like your childhood phone number? No.

Tommy: Remember on the show I tried to call my childhood number? Disconnected.

Josh: That's right.

Tommy: I'd love to get that back. I'd get a landline. I'd bring the landline back.

Josh: I reckon there is something like hipster cool. Yeah, people listening to records, calling on landlines.

Peter: Wouldn't that be great? I don't have a mobile, I just have a landline.

Tommy: It was nice. So when Mr. 97, there was a time when you couldn't tell who was calling. And this was a time when my mum and dad and our household received some late night calls. And I remember, I remember like hearing the, the sound of the home phone ringing.

Josh: It rattles you, don't you reckon?

Tommy: Late at night, eerie. Yeah, eerie as fuck.

Josh: Someone's died. Like the amount of, the amount of like deaths or whatever, like you'll hear the, oh my goodness, like I just remember like my mum, like, oh no, okay, amazing, they died.

Tommy: Just by that, you know, are you okay? Place in the house where they go to. Yeah, anyway, I remember my brother, my my eldest brother, who's 8 years older than me. So I don't know, I would have been a young kid, but he would have been a teenager. And there was some kids that called and impersonated the police and said that we've arrested, uh, Anthony Jackett. So like eerie and scary. Like, kids can be fucking assholes. Yeah, but that would scare the shit out of you. I think Mum knew that he was fine, but back in the time when there was no, like my brother didn't have a 5210, which I had, which was huge brick the size of his bloody hand.

Josh: What, the 5210, was that prior to the 3210?

Peter: Yeah, the 3210 came after, I think. It was the one with Snake too, wasn't it?

Tommy: Uh, 5210, 3210, 3310.

Peter: Oh yeah, um, 3315.

Tommy: Yeah, yeah, fancy. Yeah, I had the, um, flick down, I think it was a 7250. I was so weird that they're all numbers.

Josh: Yeah, I remember that. What the fuck? I got a phone.

Tommy: How weird is that?

Josh: The Motorola Razr changed the the game. I had a pink Motorola Razr because it was just a bit of a flex. Or not like, it's just a peacock, bro. The reason it was peacock, but the flamingoing— but the reason I was doing it, I think, is because you could only— similar to what happens now with the iPhones where it's like, I'm gonna get this colour because you can only get this in the new one.

Tommy: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Josh: The second, the second, um, uh, Razr, which I think was actually thicker, which is sort of counterintuitive to where it's all sort of gone But yeah, it was a strong version.

Peter: So it was a flex because you were like, I've got the second version.

Josh: Yeah, I think it was a bit like that. But I did have a Siemens phone that was my first ever phone that had polyphonic ringtones.

Peter: Nice. Polyphonic ringtones.

Josh: Yeah, do you remember that?

Peter: Remember the ads and you used to have to call a number?

Josh: I edited one of those videos where it was like, text you and your partner's name to the number on the screen and find out if you're compatible.

Tommy: God, like all of this is going over Mr. 97's head.

Josh: Yeah. No idea what's going on.

Tommy: Crazy, huh? I remember like, um, parties, there was some home phones that got used to call those numbers in the back of newspapers or magazines, the naughty numbers.

Josh: What about—

Tommy: I saw it cost like $5 a minute.

Josh: Naughty numbers.

Tommy: Yeah, naughty numbers. Remember the sex lines?

Josh: Is it still a thing?

Tommy: It's still a thing.

Peter: I'm sure it is.

Tommy: I haven't seen them, but people would use home phones at like parties. Yeah, it was like a real sting. What about—

Josh: yeah, have you guys heard of swatting?

Peter: No.

Josh: So this—

Tommy: oh, that's horrible.

Josh: So this is a big— this is a big thing in the US in the gaming community. I saw a video on it. I think, um, BuzzFeed have like a doco series on Netflix at the moment. Do you know what that's called, 97? But anyway, they're delicious, by the way. Yeah, they're so good, aren't they?

Peter: Enjoying it.

Josh: Yeah, it's not like deep fried like you'd think. It's soggy because they're lightly fried.

Peter: Yeah, yeah.

Josh: But they, uh, basically— swatting, it's pretty horrendous. If you're playing a game and you're really good, like say Counter-Strike or something, someone will basically find your address and they say that there's been like a gunman in the person's place. And so the SWAT teams come to this house and someone's actually been killed by like opening their door. What? And someone's like, it's ridiculous. So anyway, because in the US—

Tommy: Kids are fucked.

Josh: That's brutal. And because police are like, militarised in the US, so they've got like crazy guns and stuff. AK-47s. Yeah, it's like full-on shit, but it's a real problem where I think there's like— there was 1,000 cases of swatting in the US last year.

Tommy: We've gone pretty far off, uh, the storey of Chelsea.

Peter: It's gone a long way.

Tommy: Yeah, yeah, that's right.

Peter: That's right.

Josh: That's the thing. I mean, that's the—

Tommy: that's the thing with phones.

Josh: So like the, uh, I know like with Skype and stuff, you can't do like emergency stuff because they can't work out where you are. You can't use, uh, VoIP.

Tommy: So you're good with video call, you're just not good with getting on, getting on the blower?

Peter: Yeah, something about it.

Tommy: Interesting.

Peter: So I think—

Tommy: what about if, what about if it's a phone call to Seth Godin? Well, like if he said, mate, Mr.

Josh: Pete, surely he's just on Skype or Zoom.

Peter: We have Zoom calls. I've had Zoom calls.

Tommy: No, but if you had to call him, would this anxiety be there?

Josh: Really? Probably more so then. What about Josh calling me?

Tommy: Speaking to Josh, like, who is there? Who is there in your life that doesn't evoke any— what about mum?

Peter: Probably mum and dad are the only two, I reckon.

Josh: Really?

Peter: Like, if my brother called me, I'd be like, that's weird. What about if maybe someone's died?

Josh: If I call, I mean, you just don't answer. I don't think you've answered.

Peter: I don't answer.

Josh: Have you ever answered one of my calls?

Peter: I think once. Okay, when you said I'm 5 minutes away and I was there for 15 minutes, and then you called me and you were like, I'm almost there.

Josh: Were you impressed that I said that we're 2 minutes away before and we were exactly 2 minutes?

Peter: 2 minutes.

Josh: Yeah, um, I was happy with that.

Tommy: Okay, so you've never spoken to Chelsea on the phone?

Peter: No. So there was a conversation we had, I think, at the start where I think I shared with her the anxiety that I have behind phones. And she also spends most of her day at work on the phone to people, so she was like, yeah, I don't really like phone calls either. Okay, so just haven't had the need to speak on the phone. I know it sounds weird to other people, but to us it's like—

Tommy: and when we sort of— when we speak about it You can sort of, you could look at the weirdness of it, or the—

Peter: I can see the way.

Tommy: Yeah, and so you see that for the majority out there. Yeah, I think like sales calls and shit, like I get heartbeat going and calling people. I remember calling girls, you know, I was like, fucking called Amy first time. I remember that is like, it felt like a big deal.

Josh: What happened?

Tommy: I tried to tell her, so when I met her in Bali and we had— and I came back with his hat And I kind of knew where the hat came from, but there was a chance that because Amy came to stay from— I mean, someone left in the room, so someone who was on the trip with us.

Josh: Another girl that was in your room?

Tommy: No, it was a trucker cap. It was the— when Hamish and Andy did the, uh, Hamish and Andy did the Thailand special.

Josh: Oh yes.

Tommy: And so they, they had all these hats. Anyway, the hat belonged to— sorry, the hat belonged to Jessie Martin, who was over filming with Hamish and Andy, but I was like, maybe this hat could be Amy's, which is a good in to call her and say, hey, the excuse to call— have you, uh, did you leave a hat?

Josh: And it also has a bit of a line through as well because it's like I'm connected with entertainment, like it could be you, but it could be one of my friends.

Tommy: I never dropped the name, I will state that.

Josh: Whatever you say to the hat, you would have described it.

Tommy: No, I just— yeah, I described the hat, it's a green like has some Thai symbols on it, but it was like notably— I didn't go with that angle at all.

Josh: And so what did you— so you call her?

Tommy: I called her and my heart was fucking beating because I loved it.

Josh: And she said, oh no, that's not my hat.

Tommy: No, we just got into some chatting and oh, that was so— fuck, that's bringing up some nice little warm memories inside.

Peter: What do you talk about?

Tommy: We just talked, like, this is the thing.

Josh: What time of day was it?

Tommy: It was evening, I was living in Shepparton, so I was like—

Josh: Lonely evening.

Tommy: I was lonely and I was away from family, you know, coming down off that holiday where I met her, and I was thinking about her every moment.

Josh: How far off from the trip to the call?

Tommy: About, yeah, 2, 3 days, I reckon.

Peter: So you're sitting with the hat there thinking, when am I gonna call her? When am I gonna—

Tommy: Well, this is my advice to Mr. 97, you've got to seize the moment. You've got to— there's some energy and some excitement around from the moment you meet someone, it's frustrating, the moment you actually get together. Yeah, it actually contributes to the reason why you could end up together or not end up.

Josh: But isn't there also the other side of the coin? Not to say that we should use the game as our standard of— but Neil Strauss talks about negging. Yeah, I mean, the soft neg be—

Tommy: oh, you could, but I'm not here to fucking play games. Amy's, um, thoughts around me telling her what I wanted in terms of calling her, saying I want to see you. She loved that. She was like, that was a big win for me because I didn't have to think about what you were thinking.

Peter: She's like, I told you, that's amazing.

Josh: Do you think people are different? There's different types of people?

Tommy: Definitely. But I've tried all of the approaches, and Amy's had similar, and she said she just really valued that.

Josh: And so then it's like, just clear communication.

Tommy: If you do what you want to do, which I did and she was at that point of her life, that connected us. Yeah, that's why I'm saying like, maybe it is a bit like, do what you want, but whatever you do in that moment, there's some timing within that as well.

Josh: Yes.

Tommy: And so anyway, I, um, called her and we spoke and we spoke for—

Josh: I don't know, you're gonna answer it? Don't answer it.

Tommy: Number I don't know. I'm anxious.

Josh: Anyway, why is your phone on? Oh, because of the Uber Eats.

Tommy: Because of the Uber Eats thing. And so yeah, we would speak for hours, and especially when we're doing long distance.

Peter: Oh, it's really—

Tommy: we we could speak at night most, like when we started actually getting into a relationship, you know, official, we would talk for so long and it was every night and it was lovely.

Peter: But the long distance is obviously playing a role there. Yeah, longish distance.

Tommy: Yeah, yeah. And now still we talk on the phone heaps. Okay, Josh is on the phone to his, to Bree heaps too.

Josh: Yeah, I just like, what are you up to?

Tommy: We weren't, if we weren't owners of this business, yeah, we'd be in trouble. Yeah, you know, that's why I was trouble at all my other places.

Josh: Yeah, because I would just— I'll call Bri and I'll say, what, um, you know, what are you doing?

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: And normally the answer is, I'm working. What are you doing?

Peter: I can't get my head around that. Why I would call Chelsea and say, what are you up to? She'd be like, working.

Josh: Well, because I'm trying to work out— I'm like, oh, what do you want to do? What do you want to do for dinner? Yeah, Bri will be like, uh, I'm thinking like something naughty. I'm like, okay, great.

Tommy: Yeah, interesting. Anyway, so maybe that's been my experience with— I love it. I love that.

Peter: I think, in my defense, yeah, I know it sounds weird.

Tommy: No, it's good, I like it.

Peter: We, especially early on, like, we train at the same gym, so I knew basically every day I was going to run into Chelsea at some point during the morning. So I didn't necessarily have that 'when am I going to speak to you next' kind of thing. We also lived all of 300 metres away, I think, from each other in Richmond.

Josh: Great.

Peter: Yeah, which was helpful. And yeah, I think, I think our version of that, like this is how I want to be communicated with was me saying I have anxiety over phone calls and her going, I speak to people most days, every day on the phone, so it doesn't interest me either. I'm like, perfect.

Tommy: How quickly did you bring that forward?

Peter: Pretty early.

Tommy: Okay, so that's good.

Peter: Yeah, pretty early on.

Josh: Yeah, it's a good— like, I think there's— it's not— it's definitely not negging, but there's an element— like, I think that I'd be like, oh, that's what a— what a weird— what a strange guy. I like this.

Peter: I will say, like, full disclosure, there's been a few moments— I mean, it's been 3 years— there's been a few moments where I'm like, it would be easier if I just called her now.

Josh: Yeah, but you don't want to break—

Peter: but it's almost at the point now where it's like, well, we've come this far.

Tommy: What do you think Seth Godin would say?

Josh: Who?

Tommy: Yeah, I mean, he's a friend of yours.

Peter: Yeah, um, I'm sure he would say, what's a phone call for? Yeah, and who's it for? Exactly. If you were calling to have a conversation about nothing He'd be like, what's that for?

Tommy: Yeah, yeah, I get that.

Peter: Whereas if it was like, you know, we have to decide what we're having for dinner.

Josh: Relationship bit, like who's on the couch watching TV, who's it for, what's it for? I love it.

Tommy: But do you honestly think he would— do you think he would—

Josh: do you reckon he's a real person?

Tommy: I don't want to— I'm not judging you at all because it's like it's your life, I've got mine.

Josh: It's like, it's such a judgmental thing to say.

Tommy: No, but I think I'm noting because I don't want to seem By me prying in this sort of opposite thinking is me being mean to Pete and what his choices are. I respect that he feels angry.

Josh: But the thing is, I think I'm on board with other things. For instance, the idea of getting water from downstairs before to the cafe was a bit too much for me.

Peter: Yeah.

Josh: So Mr. 97 did it.

Tommy: But I think like we all have our own anxieties.

Peter: Like there honestly, I think there are a few things that bring up Anxiety for me, social anxiety. I'm quite good socially, but for whatever reason, phone calls is just one of those things.

Tommy: Toilet is one for a lot of people, going to the toilet in new places, not pooing at work.

Josh: Oh, it's more— really? For me, it's more, uh, we've spoken about it before, but, uh, if you're a female and they haven't been to the men's toilets, they have— they call troughs— what do we call them? Urinals?

Peter: Trough?

Josh: I don't know.

Tommy: Yeah, see, this is a guy who doesn't use one.

Josh: No, I, you know, I definitely— I know I use one, but if I really need to go I just, the pressure in which I want to push, there's just a risk of splashback that I just don't want to have to deal with.

Tommy: This is a man who barely progressed from nappies.

Josh: But do you think, do you sort of understand what I mean? As a tall dude, is there issues with urinals for you?

Peter: Yeah, I'm sure there's something with the—

Josh: The height? You're pissing, yeah, pissing on a mat, you don't realise there's someone.

Peter: Mine's very much going downwards.

Josh: Yeah, well, so that actually works out quite well for you, I think. Because I think the risk is that, you know, like when they have like plastic, you know, they've got like a gel thing or whatever. What I'm not sure is where am I meant to aim? Do you know?

Tommy: Yeah, I know.

Peter: I don't think about it. I just, I think I just go.

Josh: Yeah. What do you think, TJ?

Tommy: There's a lot of thought in the toilet stuff.

Josh: Do you aim at the ceramic bit?

Tommy: Like, mate, I do what's best for the moment.

Peter: Yeah.

Josh: That means you guys don't know.

Tommy: Well, there's a bunch of different toilets.

Josh: But TJ, you've had piss on your pants before at work, so you're not like a great—

Peter: No, I haven't.

Tommy: Never, never had it on my— if you're pissing on your pants, like, how the fuck am I pissing on my pants?

Josh: I don't know.

Tommy: Here there's a toilet, so it's pretty directional. There's no piss. I pissed on my—

Peter: I'm gonna leave while you guys come back.

Josh: We don't need to unpack it anymore.

Tommy: No, it's just a— it's a big statement.

Peter: Oh, it's big.

Josh: No, I'm not saying you piss in your pants. You pissed on your pants.

Tommy: Hey, I'd rather piss in my pants than on my pants.

Josh: I don't know. But there's also certain colours that's just like, if I wear certain colors, I've got to be very, very, very pedantic. And it just happens, you just need one bad urinal for one little bit of spray back or whatever. Yeah, for it to fuck you. And that's what happened with me. It happened once and I'm like, well, what am I doing?

Tommy: Pete, so, uh, with clients, coaching clients— no, but I think what's the— I mean, what we're talking about here is little things that we make really big. And that not being a bad thing, it just being the thing. How do— what is the— what's the mechanism for moving forward through these things? And I'm not saying— I mean, we can, we can do the call to your missus and have the first ever moment of you talking. You don't want to do that? And I don't want to press you into it.

Josh: What about me pissing in a urinal on the show? Maybe we could, maybe we could do both. What's your fear, TJ? What are you—

Tommy: um, I feel levels of all of these things to some degree. I think about what other people think of me a lot, but, but I, but I, I don't, I don't know how much it affects me, but I definitely feel— I think Josh, like, that cool thing, you know, like wanting to seem like you've come across cool. I've worked a lot at that being something that I, you know, I, I don't want to care too much about what people think of me, but I definitely care what people think of me.

Peter: I, I think everybody does.

Tommy: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Peter: If you think about it, I've spoken about this with a few people before, but if fear is like an onion and every time you unpack a fear there's another layer, I think the core of the onion for everybody is the fear of—

Tommy: is a chimichanga.

Josh: It's also the most amount of cheese.

Peter: I think it's the fear of what other people think of us. I think every— almost so many things that we do out of fear are based on the perception of other people.

Josh: What's your— when you come on a show like this, what do you reckon the guest fears would be? What do you reckon the most common?

Peter: I think that's it, is like, I don't want to come across as an idiot. I want people to think that I'm interesting.

Josh: I want people to think that I'm funny.

Peter: I want TJ Is it getting JJ to think, you know, that I'm worth having on again? There's all of those fears I'm sure go through every single person that comes on the show.

Tommy: And now everyone's thinking, can I become Team Gronkh? Yeah, and will I make it through the team?

Peter: Oh, we're back to Team Gronkh now, not the squad.

Tommy: Yeah, I have to cheerlead my side.

Peter: We're back on.

Josh: You say cheerlead?

Peter: Cheerlead.

Tommy: I don't want to seem stupid. I think doing something like this, the podcast, is like the antidote to—

Peter: Absolutely.

Tommy: Making yourself look silly, which means you're not worried about looking silly.

Peter: Totally. I, I think, like, I have my own podcast and with, with Jen Waldman, and we've spoken about it before, but I think it's the sort of thing that even if no one was listening, I would still 100% do. And I think, I actually think everybody should do it. Like, it's a bit like blogging 10 years ago. There's value in writing down your thoughts in the same way there's so much value in just talking about things out loud. So yeah, I totally agree.

Josh: Blogging's Blogging's changed a bit. I don't know if we spoke on air with Genevieve about that, but like, uh, bloggers were like— bloggers were a real thing. You think about like, uh, some of the people who I followed on Twitter. Darren Rouse, Pro Blogger. That's the— you know, was that a thing?

Peter: Pro Blogger. Pro Blogger.

Josh: That was his whole thing and still is his thing. What's the, uh, what's your take on the blogging thing? You have a blog, you write on it. Do you think that the, um, all the social media stuff and podcasting has changed the landscape?

Peter: I think a little bit. The thing that always makes me smile and laugh about blogging is so many people say they do it, but then you go on their blogs and it's like the last post was 2017. I think the consistency of showing up every single week or every single day, if you're Seth Godin, so rare, is so rare. Everyone's got one, but who's actually actively writing? So I actively write on a Sunday every week. Yeah, I've committed to that for the last almost 2 years.

Josh: You and I were talking about— have we spoken about the page, like the writings in the morning?

Tommy: Oh, the morning pages. This bloke gets out, just lays in bed. You do it in bed?

Peter: I've actually, I've changed since we talked about that.

Josh: Really?

Peter: So I used to roll over and grab my notebook and then just do it on my stomach while I was still in bed. Maybe it was 'cause it was summer now, I get out of bed and there's a, I just got a bedside table that I can stand at.

Tommy: Yeah.

Peter: 'Cause I think I was doing it while I was lying in bed and then I'd like get tempted to fall back asleep.

Josh: Really? Did you ever fall asleep doing it?

Peter: I didn't fall asleep, but I would get halfway through a page and then be like, Oh, it's like meditating lying down.

Tommy: You're kidding yourself. You can't. You're kidding yourself.

Peter: You got to get yourself out of bed. Yeah. And then like maybe I'll go to the bathroom, splash a bit of water on my face, and then I can do my writing.

Josh: Splashing the water on the face, is that— I realized, uh, maybe 3 years ago I was making a video and there were some parents and they were getting their kids ready for bed and they're like, oh, okay everyone, let's clean your eyes, clean your eyes. And they're like, they're getting like, you know, cleaning, they close their eyes and clean it. I'm like, I would never clean my eyes before.

Peter: Clean your eyes?

Josh: Clean your eyes, like clean it, like all the sleep. Like, just let's get all the gunk off it.

Tommy: Getting up in the morning, going to bed?

Josh: It was going to bed.

Tommy: I think that's just a family quirk.

Peter: I think at night— I mean, in the morning, like, you can rub the sleep out of your eyes.

Josh: But you— is it actually like—

Tommy: as a father, I think you tell your kid, like I tell him, wash your dickie. And he—

Josh: why does it always come to Coxton?

Tommy: Because who teaches you to do this? I gotta tell my son for the first couple of years of his life, you gotta wash your dick.

Peter: Because he wouldn't know.

Tommy: He wouldn't know until he does this. And then I start—

Josh: now his eyes are just calloused.

Tommy: Under your arms, under your arms, under your arms. So it's like, it will get there. Maybe it's a thing that soon down the track—

Josh: isn't that funny?

Tommy: You won't need to be told to do things that we take for granted.

Peter: You would see it.

Tommy: Like, who taught you, bro?

Peter: Someone has to teach you that.

Tommy: Who taught you?

Josh: How often when you guys are washing your hair do you like get out of the shower and realise that you still got shampoo in?

Tommy: I've done it a couple of times. Under the arm for me. Yeah, because I like to just let it sit and then I do my other stuff.

Peter: Yeah, yeah, the hair one hasn't happened to me.

Josh: Really?

Peter: I don't wash my hair that much.

Tommy: You don't have much hair. You've got a solid hairline. Yeah, and dense hair. Uh, but how often are you getting your hair cut?

Josh: For every 4 weeks. Where do you go?

Peter: Go to Beef's Barbers in Richmond.

Tommy: Okay, nice.

Josh: Hey mate, I wouldn't know. You asked. No, I wouldn't know. I did. I wanted you to say a barber.

Peter: It is a hipster barber. You get a beer, you know, all that.

Josh: You get a beer. I can't go there. I get anxiety around them asking if I want a beer.

Tommy: The answer's no.

Josh: And that, yeah, Scott, just a place, whatever your barber, Drunken, the Drunken Barber on Smith Street. I was just so panicked.

Tommy: It was in the name, bro. Yeah, they, they didn't hide it.

Josh: They do a free beer. I just wanted it to be like, I shouldn't want to, I don't know.

Tommy: Um, this, I mean, this is a hard question for me to ask, and I'm asking you.

Josh: Here we go.

Tommy: So I don't, I don't have the answer specifically for me, but in terms of forming that sort of habit and why you show up each day and do the thing that you do. What have you identified what it is for you?

Peter: Yeah, I think, I think I started it because, I mean, I've always been one that's kind of been a little bit, I get obsessed with this idea of making yourself a little bit better, doing things that are going to be beneficial for your health and your fitness and your mind. And so I think I started because of that, but I'm also quite good at forming habits and stick— sticking with habits that I know make me feel better. And so once I'd done it for— I think I'd sort of realised it had been 3 or 4 months, and then I was like, I think this is helping.

Tommy: I'm not laughing at you, Pete, I'm laughing at this fucking Gronkh to the left of you.

Peter: I didn't know that—

Tommy: did a mouthful of 7x7 centimetre piece of deep throat at his chin.

Josh: I didn't realise it was gonna be crunchy because the thing is it's fried. No, but the way that it's set up, they're not all crunchy. You get that? It's like some of it's crunchy, some of It's not.

Tommy: Anyway, sorry, mate. Sorry.

Peter: No, that's all right. I just— I think once I got to a point where it was 3 or 4 months, and then maybe I think I might have gone on a holiday and I didn't do it, and I've like noticed that I had more, I guess, cloud and anxiety in my head and was like, that's pretty interesting. So what if I kept doing it? And so I just sort of kept doing— and I've experimented with, you know, writing 3 pages, writing 1 page, not writing, and like all of those different things. And at the moment, just writing 1 page every morning, it just is a habit that for me is worth doing. And sometimes it leads to a blog idea, sometimes it leads to a podcast idea. 99% of the time it's just crap, but I just, I don't know, I feel better because of it.

Tommy: There's probably been a million blog posts about this topic in terms of 30 days is the number of days to form the habit, the pathways. What do you think about that?

Josh: I don't know if it's 30 days, it's 28 days, but I think it turned out to be a bit of a myth.

Peter: Something I've, something I've been into recently is there's this framework, the Gretchen Rubin podcast. She has a podcast, but she has this framework called The Happiness Project. It is, yeah. But she has this thing called the Four Tendencies, and it's not like those personality profiles that tries to pigeonhole you, but it's basically how we respond to expectations. And there's four different ways that we respond. And the way that I happen to respond is if I make a promise to myself, or if someone else like says that you need to do this thing, I'm what they call an upholder. And so I'm just really good at upholding my promises.

Josh: See, I'm not an upholder. Yes, my problem—

Peter: so most people are what they call Rebel. Is it Rebel? There's Questioner, there's Upholder, and there's Obliger. So most people need someone else to hold them accountable. Yeah, that's why people like coaches and mentors and all these sorts of things, because we need that accountability. I think I'm, I think I'm one of the rarer cases of if I commit to something like a New Year's resolution, I know I can kind of just stick to it. And I don't know why or how, it's just you're an Upholder. I'm an Upholder.

Josh: So does that mean what I do, you're more careful about the news reso because I'm very like, yes, bang bang, when I just do all news resolutions.

Peter: So I heard yours and it was like, it was giving me anxiety because I was like, there's no way, like you can't possibly do all that, that's just annoying.

Tommy: Yeah, you can't tell him because if you was a friend, he'd be like, nah, tell me what's—

Peter: it was like 3 hours of reading, 4 hours of writing.

Tommy: Yeah, yeah, how are you going to do all these things? You're projecting, go away.

Josh: It's very, it's very true. That was, that was probably the best impersonation that Tommy's ever done.

Peter: We've had Lynn, we've had—

Josh: yeah, it's perfect.

Tommy: You do Lynn, I do you.

Josh: Yeah, that makes sense. It sounds like the best party. Um, uh, the— so the, the morning, the morning pages, you're very strict, you're very strict on that. The other thing I noticed is you're very strict on your diet. Yeah, because I was talking about like, man, how am I going to be lean? How can I be lean? And you're like—

Peter: you were saying you wanted to be gaunt.

Josh: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I stand by that. I stand by that.

Tommy: You don't stand by being sick.

Josh: No, not sick, but just sort of like— What is—

Tommy: gaunt is directly related to sick people.

Josh: You don't want to be gaunt.

Tommy: Or people who have been severely ill.

Josh: Seriously. I think that there is something nice about—

Tommy: I told you my grandfather was gaunt after World War II when he was captured for 2 years.

Josh: But the thing is, it's more like the— I'm not overdoing the food. Like gaunt says I've got enough control that I only eat what I need to survive. If you're gaunt and you're dead, you've overdone it. If you're gaunt and still living, you're probably just— you're on the cusp. But what's the difference between not eating enough and eating too much?

Tommy: What about the option? Because that's what we do have, the option of being fit and healthy, strong, lean.

Peter: Lean is the word.

Josh: Yeah, sure. But you have like a lot of—

Tommy: like your body, a person who's gaunt Unless it's from—

Josh: he's an eating chimichanga—

Tommy: exercise and they're actually in that stage of they've worked so hard, they're still fit and going. But what about being an optimal engine?

Peter: Yeah, this is just, just being healthy.

Tommy: We're just a vessel, dude. Yeah, if you can have a good vessel.

Josh: Yeah, I get it. But my point wasn't about my diet, it was about Peter Sheppard's diet. Pete, what's— you actually like, do you have rules around this? Because you're not like—

Tommy: he made the rule 20 years ago and he's upheld.

Josh: That's not— it hasn't been that long because it was Chelsea that sort of set you on this path.

Peter: I definitely have her to thank. I, I started learning and understanding a lot more about food and fitness and health before I met her, but then she's like to the next level of awareness of what to eat and what not to eat. And again, it comes from the same place of the writing, is like, if I can set myself up to be fitter and healthier and happier and just feel better and have more energy, I'm gonna do it. And so when I realized, like, the aha moment of holy shit, having 4 bits of toast in the morning and then 2 sandwiches for lunch and then having another bit of toast when I get home from work—

Josh: a lot of bread—

Peter: that's why I'm always tired, because I've just had so many carbs, so many dense carbs that you just don't need. So once I like had that aha moment and I started reducing that, I was like, oh, I feel better. Interesting. Let me learn more about this.

Josh: And so isn't it fucked up though how like that's really easy for you, but the idea— like straight away I'm like, yeah, but I can make a phone call. Yeah, totally. Exactly. Isn't it weird though that it's like it's It's like doing a podcast every weekday is really hard for some people. It's easy for me.

Peter: Yeah.

Tommy: Is it— is this limiting beliefs? Like, is this— we've fought— so for instance, something that I've always said is if it's in my house, I'll fucking eat it. And I've said that for a long time, but I've— it's only really recently—

Josh: you would have died at my mum and dad's place.

Tommy: And my mum and my mum died because they've got stuff. We now have a snack cupboard that for some reason we just started— Amy and I are on this no sugar during the week, which sometimes falls off, but we've actually started keeping naughty treats that we have on the weekend and we haven't been touching them. And I'm like, fuck, all this needs for me to do is form a new belief that if it's in the house, I don't have to eat it. Yeah, I choose to eat it, or something like that.

Peter: Yeah.

Tommy: And so, yeah, so there are— that's what I remember doing, like, when I did my coaching course um, it was always like, what are your beliefs? Write them all down and then challenge them because they're just— you've just formed them in some—

Peter: yeah, it's a story. Like, every single thing that we have in our head is a story. And I have heard you guys talk numerous times about there's the opposite of every storey is also true for someone. So like, whatever you believe, someone else thinks you're irrational, and whatever they believe, you think maybe they're irrational. And so we're all irrational beings in some way.

Josh: So how do you reframe the phone thing? Could you do a month? Could you do a month where it's like, I'm not going to do text message, like go old school?

Peter: I think so.

Josh: Like, if I'd be like an older person where they're like, don't do text, just call me.

Peter: I think if I really wanted to, it would have to be— it would have to be clear to me on what's it for. But if I really wanted to, I could, I'm sure, say to myself, do phone calls instead of text messages. Yeah, I just don't know if I have Like, but the way the belief in it's going to help me— how is it going to help?

Tommy: Well, I guess that's like, we have a conversation during you, then maybe that's why you're saying—

Josh: isn't that the same argument that I make about like not going to the psychologist, where I'm like, I don't think, like, I don't think it's going to add anything right now, but is that just part of the anxiety in the story?

Peter: Well, maybe, but I think there's got to be— in order to motivate anyone to do anything, you have to be clear in like, what am I getting? Like, what's the benefit? Why am I doing this? Otherwise you're gonna not— you're not gonna do it.

Tommy: Yeah, well, I think we can all build a case for and against, yeah, for our own problems, right? It's like you can challenge your thinking around that, and I'm sure you could come up with 10 new things. More leads, yeah, more interaction with others that will connect me with other, you know, whatever. It's like there's a bunch.

Peter: Could be a better— I mean, who knows, probably could be the case that Chelsea and I could have a better relationship if we spoke every day on the phone instead of sending 20 messages a day on the phone or whatever.

Josh: The good thing is that you're allowing the the phone call to have cut through when you're ready to make the call.

Peter: Oh, it's going to be a big phone call.

Josh: Yeah, but the thing is, the problem is we have the exclusive, please.

Peter: Yeah, when I'm ready, I'll give you guys a nod.

Josh: But I think you need to do it like that.

Tommy: He wouldn't give us a call.

Josh: He said, when I'm ready, I'll give you guys a nod. How do we know about the nod?

Peter: I'll text you.

Josh: Yeah, yeah, I'll text you when I'm ready. But there is a, um, there is a risk in you being fought. This is going to take it dark for a second. Uh, just prepare. Pete on the camera is like very smiley right now, so I'm just preparing him for the dark bit. No, someone dies, something happens, it's going to force you to make a call.

Peter: Totally.

Josh: Maybe you're better off getting it out of your system before the negative thing, just so— because otherwise someone dies, you have to call Chelsea about it, then it's only just reaffirming that the only time calls happen is is bad stuff.

Peter: Yeah, I think that's a fair point. I could almost guarantee the first time, if and when I call Chelsea, she'll probably answer and say, who died? Like, yeah, it'd be like, what happened?

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: Um, what I love that you say, Josh, is bring the pain forward, you know, in all the things we're doing. What's the hardest bit? What— how can we do that now to then free us into this next space?

Josh: Yeah, if you— if you do it, it's like, it's, it's like that stretching thing. But the thing is that if I applied that to the gym, if I applied that to all these things, it would be really good. I guess we just make these choices that it's like, this isn't for me.

Peter: It's interesting. I like that idea of you do the hard part first. Yeah, we talk about that a lot in the Ultimate MBA, do the hard part first. But I think to your point is, I think I wrote about this recently where we almost forget what our unique strengths are. And so like, I work with a lot of creatives and performing artists actually on Broadway in New York. And what they don't realise is that getting up in front of 1,000 people and performing every day is incredibly daunting and scary for so many people. They're like, what do you mean? This is what we do.

Josh: Yeah.

Peter: Whereas, you know, you can pick up the phone and have a phone call when I'm here. Like, I could never do that. And then I can stick to Morning Pages, but you're like, how do you do that? Like, we all have something that we're good at. Sometimes we get too obsessed with comparing ourselves and beating ourselves down, and it's kind of worth looking at, what am I good at? What if I just double down on that instead? And I can live with not being on the phone and not making phone calls because I'm doing all this good stuff over here.

Josh: I identified yesterday when we're talking about the lease and not reading the lease how much pushback I have from reading something because I feel like when I read it I'm going to internalise it. So emails I don't like reading. Even when you texted me this morning, you didn't want to open it. No, I read it once and then I sort of forgot exactly what you said, but I just wrote back what I was thinking at the time, just because I didn't— for whatever reason, I'm like, I just don't want to— I won't have to take in every word. I mean, what's— what the fuck's wrong with me?

Peter: Do you think there's that? So I do this too, actually, is sometimes you read an email and you're like, I can't, I can't— I need to think about that more.

Josh: Yeah.

Peter: And then you leave it for a day and it's like weighing on you and it's worse and worse and worse and worse and worse. And I've heard someone talk about this on a podcast of— I think they call it Be the Shark, that like a shark doesn't read an email and go— well, the shark doesn't read an email at all.

Josh: Yeah.

Peter: The point is the shark doesn't see a go, I'll come back, I'll come back and eat that in 24 hours. It just goes, I'm gonna go and eat that. So it's like you read the email, they don't just star it for later.

Tommy: No, exactly.

Josh: Greg Norman, I wonder if he's on email. Greg Norman, there's some interesting stuff about him. Uh, he brushes his teeth with one leg standing up, like one leg up, like balancing.

Tommy: Can you confirm that, Mr. Norman? Do you even know who— hang on, wait, do you know who this guy— what's his name?

Josh: Greg Norman.

Tommy: Do you know what he does?

Josh: You don't know who he is?

Peter: The Shark? That's great.

Tommy: He's 19.

Josh: I always confuse Greg Norman with Paul Hogan.

Tommy: Yeah, well, because you can imagine Paul Hogan, the famous Australian actor, would play Greg Norman.

Josh: Definitely has that vibe.

Peter: The Shark.

Tommy: Mr. 97 can tell us because there might be— we've probably lost a whole lot of people with the Greg Norman reference.

Josh: So go, so Greg Norman, type in Greg Norman quirks, brush teeth.

Peter: Oh, we're not saying who it is because he's gonna—

Tommy: okay, he'll work out.

Josh: Wait, what are you doing?

Tommy: Well, he needs to discover who Greg Norman is.

Josh: How do we not say?

Tommy: No, I'm saying we won't say because old mate will have this moment.

Peter: It's going deep here.

Josh: He says, well, I know that guy, I've realised him. He's got a good tan. American accent.

Tommy: Still hasn't got it.

Peter: Never seen him.

Josh: So did you find anything about— so he's a golfer?

Tommy: Yeah, he was one of the best golfers in the world.

Josh: Nah, I can't see anything. Nothing about it.

Tommy: I have heard that.

Josh: I actually, I think it might be in, um, Can— if you've got, uh, Tim Ferriss's book Tribe of Mentors, open up to the Greg Norman one. I think it's in there because I think he's been asked on, on that one potentially.

Peter: How did you get good to work on your balance?

Josh: Yeah, I think like when— and I feel like, like Pilates and stuff.

Peter: So this is a good example of something that if I identify as good for me, I'll start doing. Like, I'll potentially start doing that if I— okay, there's enough evidence behind it being something.

Tommy: I'll give you one, I'll give you one. Brush your teeth. With the opposite hand.

Peter: Yeah, I've done that. I did that and I think it was just annoying, like you're not brushing properly.

Tommy: Yeah, well, it's interesting seeing the development of a kid, my son, seeing which hand he's going to go with.

Peter: So has he got a preferred one?

Tommy: Left.

Josh: Wow, for holding his dickie, is that what you mean?

Tommy: Uh, no, he doesn't judge, mate.

Josh: He just switches left to right.

Tommy: If you use your other hand, it feels like someone else's. A friend of mine once told me that.

Josh: I don't know, why are you pointing to me? I've never said anything like that in my life. Well, that would be a piece of advice. What, what context would we even say something like that? That is absolutely absurd.

Peter: Well, the other day you guys were talking about porn and stuff, weren't you?

Tommy: Oh yeah, I was saying I, I, I, I QP.

Peter: You quit?

Tommy: I quit porn. Yeah, yeah, it's been great. I fucking love it. I don't know, but maybe it's like, I don't know, no, but I don't— what I'm saying is maybe the, the getting off it or they're starting to do something, this new thing that you've done, there's empowerment when you, when you actually see it through for a while and then you're like, it's not me, guys. Like, I'm identifying as the person that doesn't watch it now. Well, I think it actually is helping me stay off.

Peter: So what you said before is like, these things you realise are choices all of a sudden. Oh, I have the agency to change my mind and do something else instead. It's like, that's actually quite empowering. I think too often we get stuck in, we think we have to do this, we have to do that, we have to watch porn, or we have to do whatever to make ourselves happy.

Josh: Tommy was forced. Yeah, that's how it all—

Tommy: A friend of mine, this is a belief, he said, I, I, um, I can't have sex unless I watch porn. Because he watched so much porn.

Peter: Oh my God, what does that mean?

Josh: Wait, he has to watch porn during sex?

Tommy: I'd say even like to get into it, he's like, I can't get it up now. Wow. Based on like what I will say, I will say not watching porn, you can use your imagination a bit better.

Josh: But that's pretty fucking— if you get to the point where it's—

Tommy: oh, that's horrible.

Peter: Excuse me, I just need to put my phone out.

Josh: That was something.

Tommy: Yeah, it's like with a partner, right?

Josh: Yeah, a bit of foreplay, nothing.

Tommy: And so that's a real problem. I didn't have it. I didn't have that. Yeah, I was just like, maybe I should stop this.

Josh: Yeah, but yeah, I think, yeah, I think that's the equivalent of saying like 'At least I'm not doing heroin.' It's got a little bit of that vibe.

Peter: 'I can't make phone calls, but at least I'm not doing heroin.' Definitely.

Josh: Yeah, I can't remember what I was gonna— that's really, that's really, really thrown me. Are you still doing, TJ, the sleep— sorry, the waking up in the morning meditating?

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: How many days in a row?

Tommy: Well, I'm on this, so I've done out of the app 37 days. I'm on Sam Harris's? Yes, Sam Harris's. I'm 12 days in. I haven't missed a day for this.

Josh: What do you mean 12?

Tommy: Okay, because what I did was I did it for say 2-3 weeks and then I stopped and then for a couple of days and I just was sporadic. But this month I've just been on it and it's— yeah, it's—

Peter: how do you find the app? Because I've been using the same one.

Tommy: It's awesome. What day are you on?

Peter: I think I finished the 60 days. Ah, and now I'm on 60 days.

Josh: When do you do it?

Peter: Just in the morning page after my morning pages.

Tommy: Yeah, that's nice.

Peter: So I do it I've done the 60 days and now there's a daily lesson that just comes up, so it's amazing every day.

Tommy: Yeah, great. So I've got— I'm, yeah, 37 in.

Josh: And so Sam's talking in all of them?

Tommy: Yeah, it's him.

Peter: Yeah, he's a— like, I've used Headspace in the past and I really, really liked Headspace, but he's like very— he almost intellectualises in a way. I actually quite like it, but he— when he says stuff like, look at you, look at your head, you know, when he says that and you're like, what? Look at you. And he's sort of saying staring in a space. 'Now look at your head.' You're like, 'How do I do that?' Anyway, it's—

Tommy: I was saying pinpoint. So like the thought you have, or where you feel like you're thinking from, where is that?

Peter: It's amazing. Yeah.

Tommy: And so it's like, this is all these feelings and everything that's going on— senses, smells, sight, hearing— is all happening in consciousness. And so it's like, where is this? And so I think he tries to help you challenge what you believe is consciousness, you know, that we're in behind these two you know, with these eyes behind this head. And so I like that scientific approach that he takes to sort of have you realise that what we believe and what we think from what we've grown up with is not the way it is.

Josh: Do you think it's the ultimate branding exercise for him? Like being the voice of all these people's meditation.

Tommy: Oh, he's been doing it for years.

Josh: Don't you think that that's sort of like, it's like your, your mom's got like a whole meditation thing.

Peter: Into it.

Tommy: Yeah, I'll link you. And so get around it.

Josh: Would like— is— do they then become these gurus? Or like the, you know, what's, what's it called?

Peter: What are the guru—

Josh: guru? Like, is that a thing? Like, I wonder if that's a thing where it's like, uh, people are building these relationships with Sam based on him being in their head. Like, maybe there's something— the Daily Talk Show.

Peter: It's pretty similar to a podcast. Yeah, in the sense that if people listen to you every day, they feel like they get to know you a little bit. Even though they've never met you. I mean, I, I—

Tommy: this is the thing, right? People like Seth Godin, or if you go sort of back, people like Gandhi, or these super prolific people, at the time of their existence, they were doing the thing. So Sam Harris might be that guy, right, that in, like you're saying, in 20 years' time, we're looking back at Sam, it's like, he taught so many people.

Josh: Like, he's leaving a legacy though, don't you think? Because it's hard to know the same things as us. He like has an iPhone, I guess.

Tommy: Like, yeah, I know. I think it's harder to have to be the person in history that made huge significant change other than these monsters like Jeff Bezos and stuff. They're the new pioneers of people, you know, people that be remembered.

Josh: Jeff Bezos is a monster.

Tommy: But well, think about that. He's created—

Josh: actually, just got it.

Tommy: He's the owner of a monster.

Josh: I just got a notification of an Amazon.

Tommy: He's a fucking monster. He heard what we're talking about.

Josh: He knew.

Tommy: He preempted me mentioning mentioning his name.

Josh: What about the Julian Assange? Do you see Julian Assange being like carried on today? Did you see the video?

Peter: Ecuadorian? Yeah, something or other.

Tommy: I watched a 4-minute, um, subtitled video of the Ecuadorian president talking.

Josh: Always the risk with Tommy. You'll read the— you'll watch the 4-minute thing.

Tommy: That was great. It was interesting hearing why they kicked him out, and I can't even relay it, but it was like a bunch of small stuff, a bunch of stuff he was doing, pissing He was using— he didn't want to use their internet and all this stuff. I mean, they supported him for like 7 years or something. I don't know much about it, but yeah, he got a buffet breakfast most mornings. I was like, do you reckon he had bed— like full bed and breakfast?

Peter: Surely not.

Josh: Well, I did see like him getting carried out freaked me out because it was just like you have this idea of what he looks like in your head based on like a few years ago, and he's like crazy beard. He looks like David Letterman. What Letterman looks like now, like crazy.

Tommy: So, but hopefully he looks like a little, like, you know, like the— they got him. This is the thing, don't do that when you're getting taken out because they're going to take the one frame that you actually look like a small little marsupial. You know what I mean?

Peter: But try and look as strong as possible. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Tommy: Pull a Conor McGregor.

Peter: He's just running, just looking. I'll take myself out, guys.

Tommy: Any snap, any frame even if you're capturing 1,000 frames a second, he's looking good.

Josh: Have you ever been handcuffed?

Tommy: Never been handcuffed, really. I've been taken to the police station for questioning.

Josh: Have you? My, uh, brother was doing scouts and, uh, his, uh, friend's dad was a security guard and he had handcuffs, which— why the fuck did the security guard have handcuffs?

Tommy: I don't think they're allowed.

Josh: Yeah, this was like in the '90s or whatever, but, uh, the kid put the handcuffs on my brother but they didn't have the key. Oh my God. And so they were at like a leisure type centre that was attached to the shopping centre. I remember mum being mortified because my brother James had to be walked through the shopping centre with handcuffs on.

Peter: Could you impersonate her being mortified?

Josh: I don't know what she would— wouldn't have said anything. Okay, just like that. I'm absolutely mortified, Josh. But the— but I remember my, yeah, my teacher in grade 6, he as a side hustle was a security guard in Dever Hills shopping centre. And he was telling us how, yeah, he couldn't— like, because we were pumped about it, we're like, man, like, did you tackle anyone? He's like, security guards literally can't do anything. They just like have to walk and follow and be like, yeah, can't do much.

Tommy: I was big on, um, citizen arrests. I remember— no, no, no, no, I just remember being so fascinated. Wasn't that like citizens arrest?

Peter: I remember as a kid it was a great bit of like trivia that you had, like, do you know anyone? Yeah, yeah, yeah, can arrest anyone. Oh, shut up.

Tommy: Tell me you can't.

Peter: Yeah, yeah, no, look it up, anyone. I remember—

Tommy: can you look up citizen's arrest, Mr. 07? I want to know what the sort of the ins and outs are.

Josh: Oh, definitely.

Tommy: In case we need someone to—

Josh: do you think I could do a citizen?

Tommy: No, definitely not. I don't think you have the skills to manipulate someone who would be in need of—

Josh: I think if you were to doing— if you were doing the physical bit and I was doing—

Tommy: I knock them out and you just stand there. You can have this one.

Josh: I think with both of us there Take him in, Josh. No, just like be very stern.

Tommy: We need to do— we need to start, um, BJJ, Brazilian jiu-jitsu, if we want to really be capable of the suns arrest. No, I've done a bit. Not, not to—

Josh: not—

Tommy: I haven't gone to do a class. I want to, I want to buy the full outfit.

Peter: It's all the rage at the moment. I mean, full body workout and like great to burn fat and all that.

Tommy: Yeah, if, if there's one fighting form or form of self-defense, BJJ.

Peter: Yes.

Josh: What do you do exercise-wise?

Peter: I go to a CrossFit gym in Richmond.

Josh: Do you stretch?

Peter: Yeah, a little bit of stretching. I'm trying to do more of that recently because I'm quite long and tall and I just am always so uncomfortable and sore. Yeah, so I've been seeing a physio and a, I guess he's a yoga instructor as well. He's got a master's and so he comes at it from a very physiotherapeutic background. I think I just made up a word.

Tommy: Yeah, I like it.

Peter: He's trying to help me there, like loosen up my back and my hips and stuff. So yeah, I do a bit of stretching as well.

Josh: Have you done the magnesium spray?

Tommy: Not the spray, but I've done the like the flotation tank that goes along with it. No, I'm joking. I'm just saying that it's probably like a bit—

Josh: you don't believe the sprays?

Tommy: What is it, a little spray?

Josh: Spritz? Yeah, if you—

Tommy: I mean, I've taken deadlifting 200 kilos every week, you probably— it's not going to do much.

Josh: How many magnesium tablets have you taken?

Peter: I usually take one at night just before bed. Yeah, but you gotta be careful. Have you made this mistake?

Josh: Yeah, I made this mistake.

Tommy: What?

Josh: Well, I took 3 and was woken up by my own erection.

Tommy: No, that was just the hangover.

Peter: What, erection, really? Yeah.

Josh: What were you gonna say?

Peter: I was gonna say like diarrhea. I think it can bring on diarrhea.

Josh: No, because apparently I learned this, I googled it. Yeah, it was like painful. It's a thing. It's actually a thing, you're welcome. Because an erection, I've said this, Mr. 97, do you remember me teaching you this? What an erection actually is?

Tommy: The relaxation. Of the muscles.

Josh: The erection is actually the relaxation of the muscle, not the stiffness.

Tommy: Interesting. I'll tell you right now, I got in the conversation with my wife, she's like, what is your dick? Like, what is it?

Josh: It's a muscle.

Tommy: No, it's not.

Peter: What, really? No, it's not a muscle. It's not a muscle.

Josh: What are you going to do?

Tommy: It's not a muscle, it's like, uh, blood rush. Incognito, what? It's your phone, mate. You can look up dick, it's fine. No, but it's not a muscle. I think that's where it's sold as, like this, you know.

Josh: Can you look up magnesium and erection just to check? But no, seriously, 3 was perfect.

Tommy: I also want citizens arrest Mr. 97. Hope you've done 2 browsers.

Josh: Well, I can tell you what I'd say if I was arresting someone.

Peter: What would you say?

Josh: Excuse me, stay where you are, you are under citizen's arrest. That's what I'd say. Do you think they would just laugh and walk off?

Peter: Yeah, I would.

Tommy: Definitely.

Peter: Fredo, mate.

Josh: I'd say freeze.

Peter: Freeze.

Tommy: Freeze. They can run. This is the thing, do you chase them?

Peter: I could imagine you'd say run. Intense about it too.

Tommy: Yeah, why would you do it? I think there's a few decisions that need to be made at what point.

Peter: And what would— yeah, what would be the thing that would make you do it?

Tommy: I can tell you. You can go if you want, Josh.

Josh: Uh, if there was— hmm, if I felt like I could take them on, that's probably—

Peter: yeah, like they couldn't be a massive—

Josh: yeah, if it's sort of— yeah, if it's like someone who's If they've got weapons, that's not a good thing. If I'm in a car, 100% would run them over.

Peter: Feel strong.

Tommy: Yeah, like if, yeah, if, if someone, if someone's legal, dude, if someone's doing something, that's running together.

Josh: Run if you should. No, but I don't run away, I stay there.

Tommy: Is it illegal?

Josh: Would I get done? Would I get done if I saw someone breaking into a car, my own car? So I was thinking about this a while ago when we in our cage at our old apartment block, there was, uh, people stealing shit. And I thought, if I was to come home and I could see them at the cage, could I drive into them and pin them to the cage?

Tommy: Um, you could, but they, they'd probably, they'd probably get away with the crime based on me doing that. Yeah, it's fairly aggressive. Like, it's fairly fucking extreme force for someone just looking through a cage.

Peter: Is there something in the police force where you're allowed to go like one level above the act of violence that they're— sure, yeah, I don't know how it applies, but I think if they have a weapon and it's drawn, then it's—

Tommy: this is why it's murky, right?

Peter: They have to justify it.

Tommy: They have to go up against it. Well, this is the case, right? Yeah, yeah. Um, Mr. 97's got some—

Peter: here we go.

Tommy: Yeah, so, uh, with the citizen's arrest, good start, you— the force you can apply has to be reasonable and proportionate to what they are applying.

Peter: So proportionate, yeah. So I think with police they can go above proportion or whatever.

Tommy: Okay, so I would have self-defense or to prevent the offender from escaping.

Josh: So if someone was pinning—

Peter: breaking into your—

Josh: I could break into their cage.

Peter: Wait there, I'm gonna break into your cage.

Josh: It's a long—

Peter: you couldn't run into them though.

Josh: No, I could.

Tommy: If they were in your cage and you drove the car up to block them—

Peter: if I just block them—

Tommy: if I pinned them but they were fine, mate, you don't know when it's really hurting them. Okay, that's enough. You got me.

Peter: I'm pinned, I'm pinned.

Tommy: I'm pinned, you've pinned me. Ooh, ooh, ooh.

Josh: They're all going to say ooh, ooh. And on the erection thing?

Tommy: Yeah, it's just tissue, and magnesium does cause tissue to relax.

Josh: But is there an actual connect— I just want to show that I'm not bullshitting. There's a connection between taking magnesium and erection.

Peter: I did not know that.

Josh: And for some reason I told like the whole family, and then when I was staying at mum and dad's, every time, every night I was having magnesium, mum would say, don't take too many. Which is just a bit filthy.

Peter: That's all. Basically your mum said to you, don't get an erection.

Josh: Yeah, don't get an erection tonight. Which is actually a very effective way of not getting an erection.

Tommy: Yeah, just mum mentioned anything to do with them.

Josh: Okay.

Tommy: Uh, magnesium is essential for metabolism of metabolism, nitric oxide, which helps in penile erection.

Peter: Wow.

Josh: So you could use it as like a natural Viagra, maybe.

Peter: Interesting.

Josh: Interesting, because apparently, uh, no, but there's a big— there's a, uh, doctors are prescribing Viagra at like a huge scale in the US, I heard.

Peter: Really?

Josh: Yeah, like for older, older dudes. It's like a bit of a— it's a bit of a problem. Same with like a lot of the ADHD drugs and things like that too.

Tommy: Yeah, isn't it a problem?

Peter: Adderall in America? Yeah, Adderall.

Tommy: Yeah, Adderall, speed though. It's like, that's what—

Peter: that's what ADHD medication.

Tommy: Yeah, but it's not really that big of a problem for old blokes. I just need a, need a helping hand.

Josh: Yeah, but it's not— it's probably not good for your, like, heart and stuff like that.

Tommy: But who owns Viagra? Pfizer. It's like a massive, massive pharmaceutical company, basically runs America. What's Pfizer worth? I always love to look up the net worth of companies.

Josh: And then can you look up Fitbit stock?

Peter: P-F, isn't it?

Tommy: Yeah, P-F. Yeah, yeah.

Peter: He's Mr. 97, I'm sure he knows.

Josh: He knows.

Tommy: He's laughing over there.

Josh: Do you take much medication? Are you like a—

Peter: no, none.

Josh: Panadol and stuff? Do you ever take Panadol?

Peter: I took Panadol and Panadeine last week actually, because I had— I was wiped with this virus last week.

Josh: And you still managed to walk with me on the Wednesday? I did recover. You were recovered by that?

Peter: That was That was part of the reason I had to move Monday.

Josh: I was— I couldn't—

Peter: I could hardly do Monday. So I took Panadine, which is Panadol and codeine, paracetamol and codeine.

Josh: Is that Panadine Fort or something?

Peter: That's the next level up. So I had Panadine as prescribed by a doctor because I was unable to move from bed basically for 4 days. I just had a virus.

Josh: Do you have a family doctor?

Peter: Or what it was?

Josh: Do you go to the same? The problem is I don't have a family doctor. So every time I go to a doctor, I've got to be like—

Peter: Start from scratch.

Josh: I'll be like, yeah, where do I go? I used to go to the 24-hour clinic in if I wanted like a medical cert.

Tommy: What's wrong with you? Go to a doctor, any doctor.

Josh: No, but it's good to have one that knows you.

Peter: So I've had one growing up, Dr.

Josh: Baum, that was my—

Peter: was it?

Josh: Doctor, but he's in Endeavour Hills and he would be basing all of his medical knowledge from me from being like 11. Yeah, so it's a bit different.

Tommy: I had one super relevant, Dr. Minogue in Brighton. He'd seen everything of mine.

Josh: Everything.

Tommy: Well, you know, I get it. You go in, got twisted balls.

Josh: Did that really happen to you?

Tommy: Yeah, you can get twisted balls.

Josh: Really?

Tommy: And it's so painful, man. It's like they untwist themselves, but sometimes you need surgery. I didn't need surgery. Thank God. It's full on.

Josh: So what do you guys do when you need to go to a doctor now? How do you find a doctor?

Tommy: Ackland Street Medical Center. There's like super clinics.

Josh: There's a Parramatta super clinic. Pretty rough. They're all bulk—

Tommy: I actually just go for bulk bill. I'm just like, I don't want to pay for this. If I need a script for some, something, which I don't, it's so rare, right? Yeah, but I, I, there is, there's something nice about going to the same person, but it's hard nowadays. Like, a lot of doctors' clinics, super high turnover.

Peter: Yeah, I saw, I had one for a while and then I went there one day and he was gone. I was like, all right, well, I guess you're no longer my doctor. So last week I was in Apollo Bay and my, my uncle was actually there who's a doctor, so that was convenient.

Josh: Oh, that's great.

Peter: That was a family doctor. In the sense that he was—

Josh: Oh yeah, that's good. What's the deal with having your uncle do it? Is that okay? I guess so.

Tommy: He's not writing him a script for Viagra.

Peter: No, codeine is—

Josh: Oh great, codeine's fine, pretty safe.

Peter: Yeah, so I, I— that was when I— to answer your question, that was the last time I had medication. But apart from that, yeah, not at all.

Tommy: Um, I want to find out what you're excited about in the future, but I think we— to finish off, but I want to know from Mr. Nice Evan, $70 billion. $70 billion Pfizer.

Josh: Yeah, yeah, that's how much Pete's going to make this year.

Tommy: And Uber is 1 billion in comparison. Uh, no, 100 billion. 100 billion.

Josh: So Uber's bigger than Viagra.

Tommy: Pfizer makes money though, I think, guys. Yeah, yeah, at the moment. Pfizer's been around for a long time.

Peter: They're making money and they've been keeping us strong and hard for years. That should be their motto. Strong and hard for years.

Josh: So you're going to Indonesia next week?

Peter: Next week, yep. Got a little holiday. So you go through Bali, but then when you get to Bali, where do you go from We're getting a boat across to the Gili Islands, place called Gili T. Cool. Should be cool.

Tommy: Fly to Denpasar.

Peter: Fly to Denpasar. We have to stay a night and then we get a boat over the next morning.

Josh: Yeah. How far is the boat ride, do you know?

Peter: I think it's an hour and a half. Oh, that's not too bad. So it's not too bad. Not too bad. I'm okay on boats. Chelsea gets a bit seasick, so she's a bit nervous.

Josh: But do you know one recommendation? Don't do like the ginger Travacalm. You know, like there's two types. There's the natural and then there's like the one that's like medical. Yeah, the ginger one was—

Peter: I was— was that a natural one?

Josh: Yeah, it's a natural one, right? And Mum had said to me, don't go the natural one, but I thought that might be the same part of her brain that can sometimes be like outrageous, you know, like older people tend to—

Peter: they've got a few every now and then, they say something in your life.

Josh: Yeah, exactly.

Peter: Is that racist?

Josh: Yeah, absolutely. Your words. Yes. Um, and so that was, uh, that was one of them where I'm like, ah, you were just it's against the natural thing, but I'm going to take it. And I was feeling so sick just chewing on this dumb fucking ginger tablet, being like, gives you something to do.

Tommy: That's about it.

Peter: That's probably it.

Tommy: Yeah, a little bit of a taste.

Peter: I used to get carsick. Mum used to give me a piece of chewy and say, just chew that. Perfect. And stare straight ahead. Build the belief. Along the Great Ocean Road, and I'd just be staring straight ahead.

Josh: Did it work or no?

Peter: I mean, no, I still got very carsick.

Tommy: As a business owner, what's the thoughts taking a holiday?

Josh: Scary. Yeah, super scary.

Peter: Yeah, I, uh, it's been something I've not done as a business owner. I've taken trips for work, like work trips. So this is a long time in the making, I guess, and I've been thinking about it and trying to plan around it for quite a while. I will take my laptop and I'll probably do a little bit of work, but I'm going to try and do as little as possible.

Tommy: And do you continue your meditation, your pages?

Peter: Yeah, it's a good question. I, I haven't landed on that yet. I have a tendency on a holiday to just sometimes do it and sometimes not, kind of just see how I feel. I like to give myself— like, I'm torn. On one hand, I know it helps me feel good.

Josh: Yeah.

Peter: But on the other hand, I'd kind of like to give myself permission to just do what I want. I want to reset.

Josh: Yeah.

Peter: So I'm sure I'll do it a couple of times a day or a couple of times during the 2 weeks, but probably not religiously every day.

Josh: We listen to the podcast, or do you think you'll have a break from the podcast?

Peter: I think I'll still listen to podcasts. Yeah, I, like, I went on even last week, I went surfing with my dad for 4 days. I was like, it's gonna be great, I'm gonna switch off, I won't do any technology. Yeah, he's sort of walking around, I was like, I may as well listen to the podcast, you know, yeah, podcast in. And so I'm looking at the surf, there's no podcast. So still, you're still switching off and relaxing, but I enjoy listening to podcasts, I'm still going to listen to podcasts.

Josh: Yeah. How long do you spend in the water when you go surfing?

Peter: Uh, anywhere from 1 hour to 3 hours probably is pretty standard depending on how good the waves are.

Tommy: Isn't it nice? It's like you're saying you're standing there looking and you're listening to podcasts, but it's the one time you actually disconnect. You're focused, task-orientated. It's like the single focus of paddling onto a wave and then the focus of trying to manoeuvre on the wave. Yeah, you're like, again, let's go again.

Peter: Yeah, it's like, uh, like skiing, I think. Skiing and snowboarding.

Josh: Never been skiing or snowboarding.

Peter: It's the surfing.

Josh: I went surfing in Phillip Island in Utangga camp. Yeah, year 9 camp actually. I'll put a photo up on the Instagram.

Peter: How'd you go?

Josh: Um, I remember being able to do it, which is good, but I was meant to do it in Queensland the following year and I was so excited that I decided to go bodyboarding.

Peter: Yeah, so beforehand I should, I should preface all of this talk about surfing when I talk about it is I was bodyboarding last week.

Tommy: Yeah, really got some big flippers there.

Peter: Growing up, we, we, there was like a group of us kids growing up and it was like you either went surfing or bodyboarding, and I got swept up in the bodyboarding crowd because at the time I thought I can do more tricks on a bodyboard. I can barely stand up on a surfboard.

Josh: Maybe it wasn't even bodyboarding. What I was doing didn't have a board. Oh, it was my body.

Peter: Genuine with a body. So you're talking about body surfing, I think.

Josh: Yeah, different. I tried it, nearly drowned.

Peter: Really?

Josh: So I ended up there, we had to get two. So one person tried to— so I was screaming for help.

Tommy: He thinks he can make a citizen of the reef.

Josh: Not in the water, maybe not. But, uh, no, I was 16 and I was screaming. I got like caught in something, like a ripple. Like basically what it was was, um, the water was hitting me and every single time I would like try to get a breath, it would hit me again.

Peter: Yeah.

Josh: And so I was screaming for help, help, and, uh, the salt was fucking like scraping my throat as I was like screaming. Yeah. And then a lifeguard came out, but because it was right on when the waves hit, their board went flying. And so they ended up getting like knocked away. And so another person— I had to get two lifeguards to get me. And then I like just go on the, on the board and close my eyes and they get me to shore. And I was like— they're like, oh, you can walk now, you can walk. And I'm like still holding on, it's like this deep or whatever. And then I was like sort of like—

Peter: are you scarred from this?

Josh: Yeah, absolutely. Wow. And so, no, I was like, uh, you know, a bit sheepish or whatever, and I'm like just sort of like limping. I feel exhausted because I thought I was going to die. And a lady came up to me and she said, oh my God, I can't believe that you were drowning. I thought you were waving. And she thought that was going to make me feel better. This fucking lady. I was so annoyed about it.

Peter: That's not what I need to hear.

Josh: But an hour— like, uh, timing-wise, when you're surfing with, uh, your dad or friends, do you sort of say Who calls it when it's like time to go in?

Tommy: It's sort of tea time when I don't know, feeling, going by feel.

Josh: Yeah, do you bring— on the cup of tea thing, do you bring snacks?

Peter: Is that like cooking in the water?

Josh: The water thing is probably a bit—

Tommy: not in the water, definitely not, because you have pockets.

Josh: I just imagine for some reason like Up and Go.

Peter: No, you would—

Josh: I swear I've seen an Up and Go ad, probably a commercial.

Tommy: That would work.

Peter: I'm sure people do it. I certainly don't.

Josh: I'm going I'm pretty sure, yeah, there's definitely an Up and Go commercial where he's done a wave and then he's like, "Time for it." You can wait, you can fucking wait. That's the best bit about it.

Tommy: I used to love it.

Josh: Up and Go?

Tommy: No, no, no, getting out of the water. You know when you've got like your mouth has just been so salty?

Peter: Yes, I love it.

Tommy: And then I would crave drinking water, but I'd crave peanut butter sandwiches. It was just a thing that my— White bread, mum and dad would make them. Prepare them.

Peter: It's funny that as a kid, like last week we were surfing, like, because the sun was rising and then it was that point where you're like, oh, I really feel like a coffee. Yeah, it's cold. So we'd paddle in and then we'd have a coffee. That was like, that was the equipment, like a thermos. Yeah. Oh, we had a little stovetop and we'd boil a little kettle.

Josh: Oh, that's cool.

Peter: French press, you know.

Josh: Yeah. Where did you get that? Wait, was this in your car or something?

Peter: Dad's got it pretty decked out. They have a caravan, like an A-van, so it's like a little flat van that lifts up like that and there's a bed and there's a stove and there's a kitchen in there.

Josh: Both of you stayed in that?

Peter: That was what I did, yeah. So they have, they have a separate bed. So there's the big bed and there's like the chair and table turns into a bed as well.

Josh: Nothing's designed for a fucking 6-foot.

Peter: Oh, it was uncomfortable. Like, it was a very— I was cramping in the neck and legs and I was like crawling into a ball like this.

Josh: Both your parents, were they both teachers?

Peter: Yeah, yeah, both teachers.

Josh: Retired?

Peter: Both retired. Dad's a surfing hippie and mum's a book-reading hippie, so now they just cruise down the coast basically, or up the coast, up to the north of Australia. And Mum reads and Dad surfs. That's kind of just all they do.

Josh: Yeah, that's good fun.

Peter: They're so happy, it's amazing.

Tommy: Yeah. Have you got plans for when you get back? Are you, are you pumped? I mean, you don't have the feeling of feeling rejuvenated just yet, but have you got plans for when you get back?

Peter: None, like, explicitly. I'm sort of excited about building up some form of excitement while I'm away, I'm sure. Because I, when I get back, there's a few things, like the Alt MBA starts up again, so that always generates a bit of buzz. And I have a few clients that I'm working with at the moment that I've told I'm going to be away for the next 2 weeks, so I'm sure some ideas might come to me and I'll be excited about unpacking those and talking to those once I get back. Yeah, but there's no one thing I'm like, I can't wait to get back and do this.

Josh: What about, are you gonna bring Easter eggs so that on Easter you have an Easter egg?

Peter: I hadn't planned on it. No, I like to do—

Josh: there was no big issue when I was on holidays.

Peter: I like to do no check-in luggage, so carry-on only. Carrying on eggs, so 7 kilograms. So I don't have room for eggs, mate.

Tommy: He's healthy, he said he's gonna—

Josh: I know, but do you remember like when I was, when I was growing up and it was holidays, there was always like, I, I was still just as excited about the eggs. I remember being in, um, uh, he's talking about last year. No, I remember, no, that one, he was in Europe. No, one Easter. No, actually Actually, in— I remember where I had chocolate when I was in Europe, not on this trip but a few trips ago with Naysan. Uh, we Easter landed when we're in Malta, and, uh, Malta is like a real Catholic or Christian or whatever, so they do a lot. But they get into the fucking painted eggs, which JJ isn't interested in because you can't eat them.

Tommy: Yeah, they're real.

Josh: Where's the chocolate?

Tommy: But they do I did have a, uh, at, in Malta, the KitKat peanut butter bar, which is like, it's not Easter, mate. It's not something you eat on Easter. No, you can just now telling us a chocolate story. Do we like, it has nothing to do with Easter.

Josh: No, but do you remember, I actually remember this very quickly. I know, on the KitKat, on the KitKat thing, do you remember when they started doing the thick KitKats?

Peter: Like the single big chunky KitKat?

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: Yeah, that was smoking a lot of weed then. That was some of the best times.

Josh: That was a big deal. But anyway, so no Easter eggs for you then?

Peter: Probably not, no. I mean, it's Indonesia, which is full of Australians, so I'm sure there'll be somewhere selling chocolate.

Josh: But you're not going to actively say, okay, I'm good on Sunday. Is it Sunday they do whatever?

Peter: I haven't done that for years.

Josh: Seriously, I've been thinking about my diet and I'm like, I want to fucking lean out a bit. I need to pull my finger out.

Tommy: You don't need to eat an Easter egg over Easter, just because everyone else—

Josh: well, that's what I was thinking. I was like, you know what, maybe, maybe I don't. But then I'm using that as an excuse where I'm like, I've already started eating Easter eggs in preparation. I'm like, 3 weeks out. Yeah, I'm not going to eat them on Easter, I'm just gonna—

Peter: every day around.

Josh: Yeah, just gonna get it through, get it through the system, and then move on.

Tommy: Um, Pete, you— when you get back, you will have to pop into our new studio.

Peter: I'd love to, I'm excited to see it. It'll be a little, a little sneak tour before. Yeah.

Tommy: We'll have it and you'll like it.

Josh: I was missing out on our full feature video, feature film.

Peter: It was great. JJ said, oh Pete, cheque out this great video of our new place. And I thought, well, they've done a video and like made an edit and like you guys do very good videos. I sat down and it's just a handheld footage of Josh walking through on his iPhone.

Josh: Not impressive. It's good to know because sometimes I—

Peter: And it was like 8 minutes.

Josh: That was 3 minutes actually. It feels like that. Do you think I did— I miss the mark in regards to interest factor?

Peter: I mean, a little bit. A photo would have been suffice, I think.

Josh: Oh, I did mention to Pete, I'm like, he should get it, have a desk at the office and all that sort of thing. So I was— yeah, it was a soft sell.

Peter: Yes, I appreciate it.

Josh: You're not that interested?

Peter: We've lost him. I really liked it. I really liked it. I want to see when it's set up now.

Tommy: Okay.

Josh: Yeah, okay.

Tommy: He's cautious.

Josh: He's cautious. Uh, what's, what's your blog? How do, how do people find your blog? You— I always click onto your Twitter profile, that's how I do it.

Peter: But it's, it's linked at humanperiscope.com. Otherwise the URL I think is ABEV. Yeah, abev.blog, which stands for a bird's eye view.

Josh: A bird's eye because it's a human periscope.

Peter: So abev.blog.

Josh: All right, well, you guys haven't finished your chimichangas. I've managed to do that.

Peter: Chimichangas. Yeah, I'm looking forward to it.

Tommy: Yeah, I'm actually, actually looking forward to it.

Josh: There's actually nothing wrong with the cold chocolate.

Peter: I'm genuinely going to eat it.

Josh: Yeah, absolutely. It's The Daily Talk Show. Hi@thedailytalkshow.com if you want to send us an email. Otherwise, we'll see you on Monday. See you guys.

Peter: See ya.