Two Big Babies

Tommy: The Daily Talk Show.

Josh: It's The Daily Talk Show, episode 286.

Tommy: What's going on? What's cracking?

Josh: Just got a notification on my phone, that's why I can't have it, uh, up.

Tommy: Was it worthy of—

Josh: say, uh, Cam Shand liked our photo on The Daily Talk Show.

Tommy: Great. Yeah, it's much needed for everyone to hear that. Like most notifications, they're actually unnecessary.

Josh: I've been joking a lot that I'm a big baby.

Tommy: Yeah, I guess when you start painting, you start identifying as the big baby. I can't see anything but a big baby now. Like, oh, I actually see you in diapers sometimes.

Derek: Wah!

Josh: But that's a monkey.

Tommy: I see monkeys as babies. Like, picture like a big monkey baby, because monkey babies are quite big, some of them.

Josh: Yeah, I get that. No, but I think you're a bit of a baby too.

Derek: Am I?

Josh: Yeah, a big baby.

Tommy: Am I? What am I?

Josh: Because you couldn't even— I was asking if you could wear headphones.

Tommy: I didn't want to wear headphones.

Josh: The pushback started early, early, early, early in the day. As soon as— the thing is, I've worn headphones for 286 episodes. Yeah, yeah. I've asked if big media company can buy new headphones. Yeah. It's been a nah. No, not now.

Tommy: Well, it hasn't been a priority.

Josh: It hasn't been a priority.

Tommy: We've got like 30 pairs of headphones floating around this office.

Josh: Amazing though, when I ask you to wear headphones, you're online searching for headphone options.

Tommy: No, I was— because I don't want to wear these big fuckers. They just annoy me. I wanted like Apple headphones that go in your ear, like so earbuds or EarPods, but the ones that have a wire on them. So I was looking for an extension cord to solve it because I knew that you were being a big baby saying you gotta wear them. And so I was matching it with, okay, I'll solve this, I'll solve this.

Josh: I don't reckon, I don't think it's that big babyish anyway. But the, did you, when you were working in radio, did you get, did you wear in-ear headphones or did you have over?

Tommy: Nah, no, they were fine, but we weren't being videoed. It was like, they were annoying. I would always take them off. Like, I'd always—

Josh: Is it a vanity thing? You don't like the way you look?

Tommy: No, I just, I don't like— It's a video, if it's a video thing, video thing, if it's a video, they look shit. I think they look—

Derek: Wait, so it is because—

Josh: No, but I think I don't think you look that good in headphones.

Tommy: They don't look that great. They feel annoying on your ears. They get hot. And so like, I remember just like sweating 'cause I've seen you sweat more than any human being in my life wearing headphones. And so you just, I just don't like them on. And I like just chuck the little ones in.

Josh: You act sometimes a bit like talent. It's sort of like the old school talent, which is like—

Tommy: No, it's like I fucking have my own show.

Josh: I do what I want. But I think headphones is probably, if we're gonna do a podcast and we're gonna take calls, have to fucking wear headphones.

Tommy: No, no, I've got no problem with any headphones. It's just these, these big ones. And I said to you, why am I wearing headphones today? And I said it has to be for a reason. And you said, yeah, we're calling somebody. So I'm excited about that. Yeah, because otherwise I wouldn't be able to hear it. It'd be a very just conversation with you and the person.

Josh: What's been happening? What else has been happening? Let's change the pace. It was quite an aggressive start.

Tommy: Yeah, because you call me a big baby.

Josh: And you're acting like a baby though, isn't it funny?

Tommy: I don't know where you go with it. It's like, where do you want me to go with being a big baby?

Josh: Just go, yeah, I'm a big baby. Yeah, maybe I'm a big baby. Did you hear that?

Tommy: That was very— that came through the computer. That was into the—

Josh: ah, I reckon, yeah, it's because I've got the, um, sorry about that, I've just got my push notifications on my phone. I just got an email.

Tommy: So right before the show started, uh, before I was, um accused of being a baby. We asked the other baby in the office, Mr. 97, who is closer to being a baby than we are. He's a lot younger than us, but I asked him, can you tell us, could you reel off a list of the promises we've made on this show that we haven't followed through with? Because I mentioned it to you yesterday. I was like, what did I say? I was like, maybe we need a sort of make note of the promises we've made and execute on the promises.

Derek: Yeah.

Josh: 'Cause I mean, which is also, you do that whenever I say a promise that you don't wanna do, which is sort of like—

Tommy: What's the promise that we don't wanna do?

Josh: Well, if I come up with another promise, it's always like, let's deal with the promises we have at hand.

Tommy: I think most of the promises have come out of your mouth and on the fly, which is the best thing about them. But I think we, like, I do wanna be the show that fulfills—

Josh: Delivers on the promises.

Tommy: And delivers on the promises.

Josh: So maybe we shouldn't do any, 'cause I have a bit of an idea. Breezer can come in, it's fine. Okay, don't come in. Um, we've got a squeaky door.

Tommy: We need to, we need to get some, um, before the headphones or after? No, we've got the spray, we just need to apply the spray to the door.

Josh: Priorities is hard in business though, we're trying to work out what to buy first.

Tommy: Well, last week you almost wouldn't do the editing because you didn't have a keyboard.

Josh: That's not true.

Tommy: But you're like, we need one, I want a big— you've got to buy—

Josh: I want a fucking big keyboard. It's, it's hard because it's like, it is, it is hard having It's hard being a partnership because I used to just buy whatever I wanted. So I've got more money probably in the bank, like it's setting me up. Yeah. But big baby's like, oh, do you really need the keyboard now? Maybe, maybe not. But sorry, the promises thing. Mr. 97, do you actually, should we call, let's call Derek first. So I would say I saw Derek downstairs, Scooter Derek, and I was telling him I could potentially give him a call. So he's waiting. He had his own issues that he wanted to bring up. To bring up that wasn't related to the promises.

Tommy: Is this episode just, just trolling you? Yeah.

Josh: No, it's not.

Tommy: What the f—

Josh: No, it's all good. So we'll just give an old Scooter Derek a call on it.

Derek: Hello, Derek speaking.

Josh: Hey Derek, this is Josh and Tommy from the Daily Talk Show.

Derek: G'day fellas.

Tommy: I'll just pull you both up. That's not how either of you call anybody and say— Is that actually how you answer the phone, Derek? Hello, Derek speaking.

Derek: I do, I do change it up a bit.

Josh: You knew we were calling.

Derek: Yeah, the phone said it was Josh, so I thought he can have, he can have a little posh one today.

Tommy: That is, that is a, a good point. When I do see, so like, if it's especially if it's a business call and I know that I've got their number, I know who it is, you still answer with, hello, this is Tommy. Yeah, yeah.

Josh: Um, have you, Derek, have you changed because you're moving away from doing as many scooter things and moving to podcast stuff, do you think that you eventually have to change your number so that you don't get such a blend of calls?

Derek: No, no, I'm fine with that. Keep in mind that even in the years I've been fixing the vintage scooters, I also field probably 5 times as many calls every day.

Josh: Sure.

Derek: For people that, you know, with their kids' Razor scooters whose wheels have fallen off.

Mason: Really?

Derek: Some kind of random Chinese scooter, food delivery scooter. So I'm used to fielding calls and going, no thanks. Yeah, yeah, no, no.

Tommy: You weren't an escort, so I mean, you're not fielding those kind of calls. If you're an escort, you'd have to change your number. Actually, I know an escort that didn't change his number.

Josh: Really?

Tommy: Imagine the calls he would have been getting.

Josh: It'd be pretty full on. Derek, the reason we're calling, we actually had a reason. I know you wanted to slam Tommy about saying that the bowl haircut was from the '80s.

Tommy: When was it, Derek? Because I know you're rocking it. It's definitely not from today, the 21st century.

Derek: I'm pretty sure the bowl haircut was just a torture that was inflicted on children down through the ages, where the mum would just actually put a bowl on the head and use the bowl to use as an outline and cut around the hair. Dude, I'd say it started when they invented scissors and bowls.

Tommy: Uh, there's a Wikipedia page dedicated to bowl cut.

Josh: Could we get Mr. 97 to do any sort of update, maybe as mentioned on the Daily Talk Show? Film or something. That could be fun. We're trying to— we're working our way towards getting our own Wikipedia page. Uh, Derek, um, the question we did have though was, uh, Tommy doesn't want us to create any more promises until we fulfil every promise that we've made on the show. Problem is that we haven't done a very good job of keeping track of what the promises are. Do you have sort of— can you reel off a few promises that we're yet to deliver on, or maybe ones that we have delivered on as well?

Derek: Well, there's the book, of course.

Josh: It's got the most cut-through, annoyingly.

Derek: Bang.

Tommy: It was a big promise.

Derek: To me, that represents the flagship of DTS Promises.

Josh: Any others?

Derek: I think cutting down the swearing has gone the other way. I got to the point where I could pretty much almost for about a week there put it on when the kids are in the car.

Tommy: Okay, sure. So I'm just confused because I can't remember making that promise. Is that—

Derek: it was— I think it was a promise. I think it was like you, you were saying to yourself, we're just going to try and not swear as much but without changing who we are. And if you need to swear, you need to swear. Tommy told me to try to say the C word. Yeah, that was— I thought you've just You know, are we, are we just sucking up to the sepo? You know what I mean? Like, sorry guys out there, but it's our language.

Josh: Yeah, sure. Well, so you think the swearing is okay? So you think—

Derek: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You can't, you can't. Of course, whatever makes you, your, your speech flow.

Josh: Okay. And is there any other promises that you want to put on? Because I've got a big promise that I want to make.

Tommy: We're going to get through a few before.

Josh: No, but I thought once we have them all outlined, I sort of want to say if we can get these sorted, Yeah, I want to make a promise. It's going to be the biggest promise the show's ever— oh no, I think Derek, have you got any other pressure on the show? Have you, have you got any other promises that we need to—

Derek: weren't you going to have that? Did you end up having that smoking Sandra Sully on?

Josh: Yeah, yeah, no, we haven't had Sandra Sully on yet. I sort of felt a bit awkward because Tommy mentioned the punching the dart stuff and Sandra Sully, and then we're bringing her on the show And I felt like, do we need to preface all the in-jokes about— so with one of the jokes we make is the fact that you punch a lot of darts. It just felt like it was going to give me a bit of anxiety.

Tommy: But I mean, the, the reality is I actually had mistaken her with, um, another woman.

Josh: Do you know what her name?

Tommy: Um, Helen Kapalos. Okay, who's another newsreader that has a real raspy voice. We're not getting Helen on now, but I mean, out of my mistake came some information from an inside source that she does punch darts. So I mean, there you go.

Josh: So we're doubling down on that. Anything else, Derek, that we're promised?

Derek: Doesn't really prove that your, your ability to identify darts, dart punching is accurate.

Tommy: Well, I'm not a dart puncher myself, so I struggle.

Derek: Yeah. Yeah. What other promises? I wonder if you guys have promised me anything personal.

Josh: I don't think so.

Tommy: No, this is probably time to finish.

Josh: I think that's the end, Derek. We've just turned you down on the fader. Actually, I'll bring you up. Bye, mate. Catch ya. See you, man. That was, uh, now I've got to end the call. Um, can I bring up the promo? Let's get 97 on.

Tommy: Yeah, okay. Mr. 97, we've got the book Swearing Sandra Sully. I'm adding to the list. Squeegees. Limited squeegee run, which it's It's in progress. Yeah, it's just stalled slightly, but so we're basically doing a key ring that's custom made. It's going to be 3D printed and it's going to be of a small little squeegee with the T-DTS engraved into it. And it's a limited edition. It's like, if you know, you know. If you've got— if you see someone at a cafe and they've got a squeegee on their key ring, they're not fucking around.

Josh: Anything else, Mr. 97, that we've promised?

Mason: Uh, no, I don't think so. Not that I can remember.

Josh: Oh, that's good.

Tommy: Nothing. What about you? Have you got anything, any thoughts, anything that we've— before you get to—

Josh: do you know what I could probably do? I could go into the Trello and go real old school.

Tommy: Yes.

Josh: And pull— because I actually had a section, I'm pretty sure. One promise was that I was going to set up a website called thedailytalkshow.com/promises promises.

Tommy: Was that a promise?

Josh: Yeah, I was going to list all the promises.

Tommy: See, that's a great idea. I think that could be the way that we actually keep track of this. So it makes us feel like we need to tick it off and there's a real strikethrough once it's done, delivered on. It'll make us feel like we're productive. We're basically building out a to-do list.

Josh: Just doing Google authentication, I'm not going to worry about it. But can I— are there any other ones, Mason, before this nice thing?

Mason: I don't think so.

Josh: Okay, well, so my promise This is an additional one.

Tommy: I'll have to add this to the list.

Josh: This is big. This is— I haven't brought this to you yet.

Tommy: Oh, hang on, one promise. It wasn't really a promise. We just mentioned that we should get counseling.

Josh: Yeah, sure. Which you can add.

Tommy: That's an ongoing counseling, uh, couples counseling.

Josh: Great, counselling couples. Um, so the promise that I'm going to make for the show, once these promises have been delivered. Yeah. For episode 400, right?

Derek: Yeah.

Josh: I was thinking that we— so I'll just, I'll lay out the whole idea and then we can say which version.

Tommy: All right.

Josh: It could involve a spinning wheel to help determine what we do. Yeah. But I was thinking let's do 400— a 400-kilometer walk.

Derek: Yeah.

Josh: And we start it— if we do 40 kilometres a day 10 days before leading up, then on the 400th episode we reach the 400-kilometer mark.

Tommy: Okay, and what's the purpose?

Josh: It's to signify episode 400 and I love walking.

Tommy: But there has to be a link to something. Like, we— I think we need more behind us to, to actually make us achieve a 400-kilometer walk. Like, that's halfway to Sydney. That's a long way.

Josh: So what are you thinking?

Tommy: Well, I think it just needs something, something more.

Josh: I don't know, I thought maybe we could get a charity involved. Oh yeah, but then I did look it up. I, I Googled— there was a guy who, uh, walked from Ballarat, I think, to Adelaide, uh, for 400 kilometers. Yeah, because I was trying to work out if there was any 400-kilometer walk in the world that we could actually go to and it would actually be the thing.

Tommy: And was there any? What happens about the shows? I mean, this is— you're saying it's a promise, but we're now workshopping the promise.

Josh: Okay, not a promise yet. We promise that we're going to think about it.

Tommy: All I've written down is Episode 400.

Josh: That is a promise that we can keep.

Tommy: We can do something. The 400 kilometers, it's— that sounds outrageous. Like, it will cook your fucking legs.

Josh: I know, but you're— but this— you've got limiting beliefs and I'm—

Tommy: it's not a I think I need a bit more motivation than episode 400.

Josh: What about if we got you little headphones like in-ears? I'm in, I'm in. But could you do it? Would you do it?

Tommy: I think we could do something. I like the link to 400.

Josh: 97, can you?

Tommy: Something has to— yeah, Mr. 97 is thinking, fuck, I have to go with these gronks.

Josh: Yeah, yeah, it sounds fun, doesn't it?

Mason: Uh, it's a little outrageous, but it would be pretty fun. If you get a charity behind it, yeah.

Tommy: So I made a video, otherwise it's a bit— I helped Ryan John make a video of his mate promoting this run he was doing. It was like, I think it was 250 kilometers, 200 kilometres that he was actually running, and it took them like 4 days or 5 days, and it was to raise money for motor neuron disease, MND. So ALS, the Ice Bucket Challenge, is the same sort of charity, same illness, sickness, disease. But he was doing it because he had such a link to that. His mother suffered from it and passed away from it. And so, fuck, I just know that that's probably what was ticking him over in those moments where it's quiet and you're out on the roads and you're annoyed with the person next to you. For no reason other than you're just tired, sore.

Josh: So what's another version? So what I was thinking is maybe we could have a wheel. Oh yeah. That has a lot of 400-themed things.

Derek: Yeah.

Josh: And we do the wheel. Is it sounding too much like radio?

Tommy: Definitely. It sounds a lot— I mean, we have taken a call to get from a listener.

Josh: This is becoming the show that I've always wanted it to make.

Tommy: It's outrageous. I mean, but this is why we sort of have talked about promises because we're not going to just make this one and have it and, and work towards it. I don't know, maybe there's something— when is, when is episode 400? Have you, you have mapped it? Please tell me you've mapped that out based on having the idea of, uh, episode 300 happening in March.

Derek: Yes.

Josh: And then so I just said April, May, June. So I was like, ah, June. I was like, winter but not in North America. So I was like, maybe, maybe we get Eric involved. Do a big walk with Eric.

Tommy: Fuck, yeah.

Josh: It sounds—

Tommy: a bike ride. I think the walking bit— oh no, bike ride you could do in like a day, a day and a half, 2 days. I reckon you could do it in 2 days. Yeah, I don't know, it's definitely one to workshop.

Josh: Uh, what more does it need? Normally we have these talks outside the show and they're probably as deflating as this right now.

Tommy: But how's it deflating?

Josh: Well, because we've got Mr. 97 who's saying that it's a shit idea. You're saying—

Tommy: He never said it was a shit idea.

Josh: Basically, he said unless it was for a charity. Yeah. Which I sort of get. Yeah. But how is it a little bit disingenuous? You know, like people who want to do a marathon, they then attach it to a charity. I guess that's okay, but it all has to have a— Do I need to pretend it hasn't happened?

Derek: Yeah.

Josh: So should I just foot foot foot and go, hey guys, I've been thinking about— Nah, I think charity—

Tommy: I think There's too many people doing stinky things these days. And people's bullshit filter is so good.

Josh: So what could we do?

Tommy: I don't know. This is where you have to just workshop and think about it. I mean, any idea, it's like you put a bit out there and then you start connecting the dots along the way. 'Cause we might actually find something getting closer to it that makes more sense.

Josh: If we just start now though—

Tommy: I mean, we could just go the complete opposite. Why are you guys doing it? Because we've got a podcast.

Josh: Well, that was like part of what I was thinking, like we could do some charity stuff, like charitable stuff, and have fun with it. But your concern is that we're just going to be a bit boring during the 400 kilometers, that not enough is going to happen?

Tommy: No, I think, yeah, I mean, there's a lot of, like, there's a lot of— how, how— so you reckon 10 days, 40 kilometres a day?

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: How long does that take?

Josh: So I reckon if we spent around 10 hours a day walking Yeah, so you're doing 10 for—

Tommy: no, I reckon, yeah, 10 minutes.

Josh: I think I did half, like a half marathon walk the other day in like 5 hours.

Tommy: Did you? That's pretty good.

Josh: So if we did—

Tommy: it's a hard— it's a— it's—

Josh: it's 21K, just under—

Tommy: it's 12 kilometres short. I know it's 2 kilometers. How long is a marathon? 42K. Yeah, so it's 2 kilometres shy of a marathon a day. Yes, I mean, there's there's people out there running a marathon a day.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: So a guy did, a guy did 3, like over a year's worth of marathons.

Josh: So you're coming around to the idea now? What more does it need? So one of the things is that we're going to be blocking out a chunk of time. Yeah. It means 10, 10 days of us not bringing in revenue.

Tommy: Yeah.

Josh: So we need to have some early wins to be able to have the cash flow to be able to do it.

Tommy: Yeah, definitely. Next you'll be starting a Patreon to support us on this walk and funding our, um, our foot tape that we'll need.

Josh: Yeah, for the journey. So food— so you're not for it? Like, so, so far—

Tommy: no, I'm not not for it. I just think it's— I think, I think there has to be something.

Josh: We had a problem with my Insta storeys as well. What's the problem with the Insta story?

Tommy: No, so you posted last night and you actually— I was looking at it. And then I watched a bit of it, and then I got a text message from you. It was like, I was like, wow, he's fucking— his ears are burning. And the text message said to me, what do you think of all my Instagram storey content?

Josh: Yeah, well, this was, this was the audio from it. Hang on. Everyone, it's Josh Jansen from the Daily Talk Show. Would you like your email read out on the show? Well, just send us an email.

Tommy: And I stopped at about there. So I kind of like, I just looked and I'm like, ah yeah, I get it. But I didn't get it because it was just me being a bit funny. Well, I didn't get it because then I wrote to you. You said, what did you think? I said, was about to DM you and say, no wonder you quit social media, but then thought that was a bit harsh, so I didn't.

Josh: But you think that like, I don't understand what changed. What, why is it okay now?

Tommy: And then I realised because I watched the follow-up one.

Josh: The follow-up ones were an afterthought though, to be clear. Okay, it wasn't like I came up with this whole—

Tommy: well, to anyone who comes in late in the piece, it would seem like you came up with it before you started that first one, because the second one was like personality number 2.

Josh: There was literally just a bit of gear I thought of afterwards. I'm like, I want to do another one, should I say the same thing? Maybe I do a different version.

Tommy: And so what I wrote back to you and say, oh fuck, I just saw the second one, I get the joke now. The first story, I thought the first storey I made was Read his own fucking messages. Thanks, um, Lynn. Yeah, thanks, Lynn. Uh, the first storey I've legit seen you speak like that many times. So I thought that the whole sort of series of Instagram storeys was you just having different personalities, and so I got it. I was like, ah, okay, I see that.

Josh: But your issue with my sort of the way that I speak, it's—

Tommy: do you reckon those planes are for the That sounds really loud, but there was— sounds like we're in— I wonder if you can actually hear that through them.

Josh: No, you probably can't.

Tommy: You probably can't. There's a lot. Yeah, it sounds like there's fighter planes over the top. Anyway, I've seen you do that many times and it's like this— it's like a real parody of yourself.

Josh: But you think that it's not a parody? You don't think it's— you just like, no, you just do it.

Tommy: If you do a parody so much, it then could become you. And so then that's— that was you. I was like, ah. Yeah, it's a real fucking— it's a real show. It's like, I think you push back on people doing sort of pantomime, and you— I've never used that word in my life until I've met you. Pantomime. I had to look it up. I still don't even know what it means, but I get it.

Josh: It's like, it's a bit overperformed.

Tommy: Yeah, which I think is the trap when someone turns on a camera, which you slip into your own trap, or the thing that you point out. And go, oh, it's too pandering.

Josh: But you don't like it. But from a— as a brand association, we did a live stream last night on Insta Story.

Tommy: I think that was great. That was—

Josh: were you sort of slightly nervous that your— all of your old mates are saying, yeah, yeah, podcast guy, and he's a bit weird?

Tommy: Were you going, you're a bit weird, dude, it's okay? Okay, we've, we've established that if you're 286 episodes, whatever we are now deep, you've established the weirdness and you get it, which is cool. And so with the— I think the live feed shows more of you. It's like going, how do you show your authentic self? Because if some random person who's never seen our podcast or heard us comes on to that bit, hey, it's like they'll actually think that's you. Yeah, they'll fucking be like, I sort of like that. Fuck that.

Josh: I liked that. I was literally—

Tommy: I'd be massively—

Josh: literally while Bree was driving, I was doing that and watching myself but back singing my Endeavour Hills footy anthem.

Derek: It was great.

Tommy: And Paul Bray, that's what I said as soon as I got onto the, um, onto the podcast. I said, is your carer with you?

Josh: Yeah, she was.

Tommy: Because Paul Bray's just—

Josh: anytime I have a chance, like if I'm not driving, I might as well make the most of it.

Mason: Yeah.

Tommy: But what I've, what I've realised with you is you, you need to be encouraged to do this, because if it's the other way, you Well, yeah, what do I do?

Josh: Oh, you're a baby. It doesn't slow me down, does it?

Tommy: No, you either double down on it.

Josh: I will, I'm 100% double down.

Tommy: Or you get super offended.

Josh: Mr. 97, do you want to go outside and let us know? Can you bring your phone? I'll call you. So there are heaps of—

Tommy: We're getting a live cross to outdoors.

Josh: So we're getting a heap of, uh, there's planes. It sounds like— I wonder if it's preparation for the air show. By the way, I tried to—

Tommy: Have you got Mr. 97's number?

Josh: Yeah, Mr. 97. There we go. So we'll just give Mr. 97 a call.

Tommy: You've legit got it as Mr. 97.

Josh: Yeah, that's why when I— Alright, here we go, it's calling. You probably can't even see. Hey, can you see anything?

Derek: Uh, no, there's nothing out here.

Josh: Okay, we'll just give it a few seconds because I can't—

Tommy: Oh, hang on, hang on.

Derek: No, no, no, there are 5 planes.

Josh: 5 planes?

Derek: Yep.

Tommy: What are they?

Derek: I think they're like, maybe like, they look like sort of like fighter army ones.

Josh: Yeah, I can't see now.

Tommy: Okay, we'll get it.

Derek: They've gone behind the train carriages.

Tommy: Oh yeah, they're flying off out of London.

Josh: When we end this call, can you get a photo please and put it on Insta?

Derek: Yeah, sure.

Josh: Okay, great.

Tommy: Mate, could you also get us a long black from downstairs?

Josh: Actually, did you want a coffee? No, no, I'm all fine. For now. All right, thanks, mate.

Tommy: Um, I will admit, this is, this is fun, isn't it? Good to have headphones.

Josh: Or do you think people will think like, guys, this has gone off the rails?

Tommy: I mean, if you've stuck, stuck in there with us with this show, you know that we go everywhere, and that's the thing, we don't care. We don't care. We're having fun. Yeah, it is fun.

Josh: The other thing too is, do you reckon you're pretty in touch with, uh, like mood-wise? Yeah, if you're in a different mood Do some people say to you, "Oh, is everything okay, Tommy?" And then you're like, "Oh, what am I actually externalizing?" Or do you know?

Mason: Nah.

Josh: When you're in a shit mood that you express your shittiness?

Tommy: Yeah, I think I know. I think I know if I'm in a different mood and I don't think that people around me are not seeing how I'm feeling. 'Cause I think I do show how I feel.

Josh: Yeah.

Tommy: I think we both do it for sure.

Josh: And so if you are in a shit mood and someone calls you out on it, Does that make you in a more of a mood or does it make you consider and be like, you know what?

Tommy: Depends on how deep down the rabbit hole you are. You know, it's like, it's almost triggering at some points. Depends on, 'cause if it's something that's like, you know, isn't that fucking, it's, you shouldn't be annoyed about it or it's something that you just annoyed, frustrated, it can just give you a bit of perspective. And so, and why are you bringing that up? I know, I was just thinking.

Josh: 'Cause I blew up at the coffee guy today. A little bit. I just think that Mitch loves a bit of banter. He's quirky. He's quirky. He reminds me of me in that regard. And so when you tell him to fuck off, I do feel bad.

Tommy: I think people like you sometimes need to be told to fuck off because it's just like this little fucking little mouse, just like, like you try and rub him off one shoulder and he's around on this shoulder.

Josh: It's just very aggressive. Slightly aggressive. Bree actually had a photo shoot yesterday.

Tommy: For herself?

Josh: No, they were doing a chocolate photo shoot. They had a little girl on set.

Derek: Yeah.

Josh: She was 7 years old. She was not behaving. She's being a bit naughty.

Tommy: 7-year-old, hard one. That's just in, just gone to primary school.

Josh: So what do you do in that circumstance when they're misbehaving?

Tommy: Surely the mother's there.

Josh: Mum's got headphones on.

Tommy: This is another reason why you shouldn't have headphones.

Josh: So, um, Bree ended up saying, look, we're gonna have to find someone else to replace you. And the little girl sort of sorted her shit out after that.

Tommy: Okay, she's had the perspective.

Josh: But kids, but kids just will say anything. Like, kids don't have a filter. Is Bodhi— I guess Bodhi's not old enough to really put heaps of words together and insult people.

Tommy: Nah, but I can see how it's like, oh, fat, look at that fat man, Daddy. Imagine that.

Josh: We had, um, Naysan over on Sunday, we went to Port Melbourne. We're walking along the beach and a guy asked Naysan to take some photos for him and Naysan gave me his ice cream. So I had 2 ice creams and a little boy walked by and said, "Why does that man have 2 ice creams?" And then so he kept walking and then I yelled out, "I'm holding it for my friend," which— What I love is when adults justify to kids because he's rattled the big baby.

Tommy: Well, I mean, if there's something you're probably triggered by, it's weight. And so you're in good shape, you know, now in your life, but it's like, I could imagine at one point Josh actually has 2 ice creams for himself. That would fucking sting bad.

Josh: It was a nightmare, but yeah, it was okay.

Tommy: It's amazing. It's almost like they have this ability to source out sore points in people.

Josh: Yeah, they see, they seek the insecurity, they understand the insecurity and they'll double down on it.

Tommy: It's such a thing, why does that person have 2 ice cream cones?

Josh: It's a fair fucking question.

Tommy: It is because you could just have 2 scoops or did you already have 2 scoops?

Josh: No, I didn't have 2 scoops. Wayne sent us an email by the way, it's a very admin-heavy show.

Tommy: Do you want me to read this one out because it is kind of directed at moi.

Josh: Never say moi again.

Tommy: Never? All right, so Wayne is an avid listener. I love the emails he sends, but not this one. He said, hi guys, listening to Ep 285, The Buck Stops Here, which was yesterday's episode. Tommy mentioned things that people do that annoy you. For me, one of my biggest annoyances is something Tommy actually said earlier in the episode when you were discussing footy club songs. He says he referred to football as AFL rules. Ah, the sport is Australian Rules Football, not AFL. The AFL is the league, not the game. I know it's pretty petty, but it shits me to tears. Just my two cents worth.

Josh: There's a lot of those things that people say anytime there's acronyms and stuff. Yeah, can be a little bit confusing.

Tommy: I mean, Wayne, I'm not sure, are you a big AFL fan? Because I could imagine that's something that someone who really supports a league— like, it was a mindfuck yesterday. We were at Amy Park, which is a stadium here in Melbourne.

Josh: Do they play football at Amy Park?

Tommy: No, AFL rules football.

Josh: So why were there AFL teams in there?

Tommy: So Melbourne Football Club, that's their sort of base for training. They go next door and they train on Gosch's Paddock, which is a footy oval.

Josh: Did Collingwood used to be there?

Tommy: Yeah, yeah, Collingwood used to be on Gosch's Paddock. And so there's like a weights room and rehab.

Josh: Anyone else impressed that I fucking knew that?

Tommy: Yeah, and no one, any of our international listeners have no idea. But anyway, so that's a weights training facility, but we were filming on the ground, which the ground was set up for NRL, which is National Rules League, or National Rugby League. I'm sorry, National Rugby League. National Rugby League. But we were filming a soccer player, and soccer is not football in Australia. Well, it is, but it's also— we have the Australian Football League.

Josh: It's a daily talk show sports edition.

Tommy: So it was very hard to go— we were trying to go like rugby, football, soccer. Like, there were so many references.

Josh: Can you dribble the ball? No, you dribble basketball. No, soccer's— soccer dribbles. You dribble.

Tommy: Um, I mean, sport is one of those things that it's It's fucking gospel for some people. Like, it's their thing.

Josh: But you were impressed. The AFL stuff, you were— you snuck a photo of some of the footy players and sent it to your bro. Yeah.

Tommy: I mean, I've been following the Melbourne Football Club since I was born. And I used to go down to the park. And when I heard that they were training at Elsternwick Park, which was behind my house, and I took my little book. It had like little red bits on the side, black in the middle. Do you remember those ones?

Josh: Absolutely not.

Tommy: I think you'd know. It's like an old school notepad.

Josh: Yes, yes.

Tommy: They're like very—

Josh: You would use them nowadays for if you were filling out like a car, what's that called?

Tommy: Like a logbook. And so I took that down and I got the signatures of all the footy players. Like it's pretty amazing. One of my greatest things, I was kind of starstruck. I used to wear this number 9 on my back, which was David Neitz's. One of the greats from the Melbourne Football Club.

Josh: On the numbers thing, I was thinking we should get Mr. 97. Oh yeah, a jersey with 97 on the back. I was thinking about it. I thought maybe we could get our own Player Ones and then as some form of inauguration. Can you add that as a promise?

Tommy: Add that to the promise. Mr. 97 jersey. Okay. It's not—

Josh: that's— wow, can I just say how Tommy spelled jersey? Can I or no?

Tommy: There's no fucking point, you little bitch. Don't be that guy. You don't want to be that guy. You've got to realise how you come across. You know the little mouse? He's now over here just fucking in my ear.

Josh: G-I-O-U-R-Z-E.

Tommy: So I was going to say Guernsey and then you said Jersey, so I started—

Josh: How's Guernsey? How do you spell Guernsey? I don't know.

Tommy: Fucking, on Word I literally just type anything and it gets there.

Josh: Okay, that didn't correct it. Was that— he's called Guernsey?

Tommy: I don't know how he's— anyway, don't be that guy, Josh, it's very annoying. And so I had number 9 on my back, David Needs. Such a fan of his, I used to copy his moves.

Josh: And anyway, what was his, uh, position?

Tommy: Uh, I think, um, full forward or centre half forward, one of the real prime goal-kicking positions. Would punch a heap of goals. And he was a solid big dude. Anyway, I once was at Mitch Catlin, who, a friend of ours, at his house down in Blairgowrie. David Nates is there, we're having a barbecue, I'm sitting with David Nates. I know I'm a lot older now and I've interacted so much more with these people that I used to hold up so high when I was young, you know, you're out of touch and then you get into media and stuff, you start saying this, but I was still like football. Like, it was me as a child, like, seeing David Nates and we're having great chats and I'm like, this is fucking sick.

Josh: Sport specifically brings out, um, you know, the excitement in people.

Tommy: So aspirational when you're in those young years. Like, the thing that brings you joy is just this kicking the footy around with your mates, and then you think, imagine doing this for a living. Yeah, you know, it's not— it's—

Josh: did you ever think that you could do that as a living, being an athlete?

Tommy: No, I think I did.

Josh: You look like you could have been. Being a naughty boy, I associate naughty boys with athletes.

Tommy: No, I was more into kickboxing. I was probably better at that. I wasn't bad at football, but I think it's like I don't have the natural ability. I'm not that fast, you know. It's like I've got skill, but I'm not— there's the kids that stand out. Yeah, they're the footy players.

Josh: Um, I just found some extra bit of content.

Derek: Okay.

Josh: Yeah, great. Promises. I made a promise that I was gonna put a message in a bottle and we're gonna send it in Europe.

Tommy: I'm gonna put a message in a bottle?

Josh: Yeah. So that was one of them. Yeah. And then I just, I had a whole segment called Life Traps, which was sort of a promise. Oh yes, yeah. I even had sort of a life traps, baby life traps. You remember that?

Tommy: Yeah, I've also got 20 pages What was another one?

Josh: Oh, what the book?

Tommy: 20 Pages was—

Josh: Oh, 20 Pages. That's a segment. 20 Pages In.

Tommy: 20 Pages In.

Josh: That's a book one.

Tommy: Yeah, 20 Pages In. Um, yeah, anything else that we put there? Like some of the bigger ones?

Josh: Word of the Day.

Tommy: Word of the Day.

Josh: Word of the Day was— how long did we do that for?

Tommy: We did it for a while. I think if anything, it just outed how illiterate and lacking in knowledge we we both are. But I think it was fun. I think now that we've done so many shows and we've started doing this, this is when we can start really coming up with finding a form. Yeah, if you have a podcast and you're 10 episodes in and you're thinking, we need to work out this structure, we're 286 episodes trying to work it out. It is an evolution over many, many years.

Josh: I think September 12, we were talking about cups versus cones when you're getting ice cream. That's That's not a thing, but I just thought that was interesting. Okay. We've covered a lot of ground.

Tommy: I just will say, you obviously can see my mood when you shit me. That's what you do with me. What I've realised is you double down on it. And so it's hard 'cause I go, I'm so emotionally reactive to this stuff 'cause it is fucking annoying.

Josh: Well, part of it is—

Tommy: Anybody, like realise my experience. Experience around you. And then I realised that the way I react, you actually feed off, and then you just—

Josh: well, you also—

Mason: you—

Josh: the reaction is completely outweighed by whatever I did as well. So that's why it becomes emotional.

Tommy: But not when it's hundreds of these over the period of a friendship. It's like shit weighs down. Like, there is so many times you do this, and it's the Gemma Watts— like, it's the Gemma Watts effect, it's the Lynn Jansen effect, it's a Josh Jansen effect. This is what you're doing and you just gotta know.

Josh: You've got a slight anger issue.

Tommy: Well, you've got a what?

Josh: Slight anger issue.

Tommy: Yeah, I could admit that. Yeah, but around you, I think fucking anyone would.

Josh: What do you think? 97's laughing. Do you think, do you think that he has a—

Tommy: is— am I being unreasonable on how he grates me?

Josh: No, I'm realizing. And you're not— he's not going to yell at you if you tell him that he's got an anger issue.

Tommy: No, not really.

Mason: I reckon, Josh, you just love pecking at stuff.

Josh: Yeah, it's true.

Mason: You do love it.

Tommy: He's like a little bird. Pecking is the right word. Just a little—

Josh: You do get angry about stuff.

Tommy: I've called you that. You're like the— you are the little brother.

Josh: I'm the little brother. You got angry at me on Friday because I was trying to play. You said you were telling a storey about Syn FM.

Tommy: I was not. So I wasn't telling a story, you asked me. You know when you're doing something and it's like, you actually, it's so irrelevant to anyone around you and then someone says, "Oh, what's that? Tell me about that." You did that.

Josh: You asked about motion graphics.

Tommy: I just asked you.

Josh: And then I said, "Oh yeah, maybe this one." He's like, "Oh yeah, there's this great guy. He used to work at—" Do you know?

Tommy: No, no, no, you actually asked me, you prompted me to tell you about what I was doing because I asked you something.

Josh: You asked me something and I was like, "Oh, okay." Yeah, what's that for?

Tommy: And then I got into it. I got into the storey because I was like, ah, and then I tell the storey and then you said, well, you said, oh yeah, he was, do you know Get Cereal?

Josh: He was on Get Cereal at SYN. And I was like, Get Cereal? I was like, I have a theme song from when I was on Get Cereal. And then you fucking lost your mind. No, no, no, because what did you say?

Tommy: Like, we're literally about to do something and you're like, oh, here, I'll pull it up. I'll show you. I'll show you things. I've seen it.

Derek: I've seen it. You always have to make it about you.

Josh: He's getting real angry about it. And then I was like, oh, okay, well, finish the end of your storey then. And he's like, yeah, so he, he was on Get Serious. Okay, great.

Tommy: Very good perspectives. How you perceived by me is I'm telling you a story, you're actually not interested, interested because now you're actually bringing up something. Oh no, about you.

Josh: No, but I was super interested because you're like, oh, do you remember Get Serious? I'm like, fucking yes, I remember. Baguette cereal. Yeah, here's the bit about me. Yeah, but isn't that life? Like, isn't that life? Like, you have a perspective. I'm like, oh, that's so cool that you have that perspective because I've got this.

Tommy: I think it was so deep into this thing, this storey I actually didn't want to tell because it had no real relevance to anything, and then you guys come out and it's— but you know, the high kicks for Josh.

Josh: But I feel like that's very triggering when anyone says, I can not make it back.

Tommy: I can tell you were super offended.

Josh: I was upset because 'cause it's like, I work with Tommy Jackett who like has like made a business about making about him. So it's like— No, I haven't. Well, you do a lot of videos that are about you. So it's like, oh yeah, sometimes I talk about me and that's okay. And that's what like we do a whole show. And so the part of it is where it's like, hey man, can you watch this video that's about me or that's my story? But if I've seen it. I've never ever, ever said, can you not make it about you? 'Cause I always feel like it's, I think it's a triggering point because it's like, Everyone, all we have is our own fucking perspectives. And so it's like, and also I think about how many, how interested I am in what you're doing or what anyone else is doing. So I think that's why it grates me.

Tommy: And there's Josh blowing up.

Mason: I reckon the difference is you could have just waited until finished, Tommy finished his story, and then you could have hyperlinked.

Josh: Well, the thing was it didn't feel like I've got a hyperlink.

Tommy: I'm about to click it. I'm fucking about to click it.

Josh: But you didn't have But there was nothing else to that storey as you were still saying.

Tommy: Which is kind of why I was like, I'm not even into this, but you've now interrupted me telling you this annoying storey that I had to somehow reach into my brain.

Josh: Yeah. But I think I always push back on anyone that like tries to slow excitement down. Like if I'm excited about something, I'm not gonna be apologetic.

Tommy: But you are the guy that puts on a show and like has done that since being a kid. Yeah. And so that's where I, it's like, Maybe that's what I'm seeing. Yeah. It has. Like, I'm going, "Oh, now Josh is about to do a show on his stuff," which is fine. Like, dude, you're doing it more than you're not doing it. So you're winning. And we allow you.

Josh: Yeah, but that's the thing. But it's like, it's— I always think that it's that whole thing when someone is a certain white— like, we've spoken about that before, where it's like, it's the person who never pays for anything. You pay for them and then they pay once and they're like, I'm a boss. It's like you play on different, you're playing at different sort of realms. So when can you ever be told though?

Tommy: Not, I think it's not like, when can anyone ever sort of have a moment? Because I feel like there's different people respond different ways. And so when can you ever go, you get like, when can anyone ever say you make this too much about yourself? Like, when can you ever accept that as a person?

Josh: I reckon, well, I think there's empathy there. I think I think the problem with it is that the instant reaction is to be like, well, how many, when can you say it? I don't know, I just think that—

Tommy: When can you say it to a person that does do it a lot? And how can it not be offensive? 'Cause I think that's, I think that is probably a good tool for some people. 'Cause if you've got someone in your life that does do that and it's like, I know that those kinds of people are offended by anyone sort of stopping them from doing it.

Josh: Well, I think it's a different, it's phrasing it in a different way. It's trying to understand what do you actually mean. So when I speak to— when we talk about doing videos and stuff, my thought was, I reckon it'd be great to see your perspective on something else, not a perspective on your story. And so that's— that feels like a constructive way of saying, don't just talk about yourself, but talk about your perspective. And I think that it's like such a fine line, but I think that it's Yeah, I don't know. I don't know if we're all— I reckon there's probably too much of a push to feel like we need to school people or change people.

Tommy: I think all we have is the ability to understand how we are being perceived by someone else in the room. And I know it's like I'm not fucking talking like I'm great at it, but there is times where it's like doing this now and pulling people in, what is it doing? And that's hyper-awareness, right? Like, that's something most people don't have.

Josh: But the thing is everyone's aware now Awareness is different. So my version of that for you is the anger stuff. So you're getting angry at Mitch or whatever at the cafe. I'm just like, it's all cool. Like it's all fine. You don't need to say anything. You don't need to fucking—

Tommy: But when do you say, if someone's fucking annoying you, when can you say something? Well, because you've got to— Like at what point?

Josh: Well, you gotta have a bit of empathy and be like, you know what? Mitch is lovely. He's actually like having a bit of fun. Yeah. And so—

Tommy: No, but I don't, I think it's on the person that can grate on you a lot. Like, and you know they do it. You do it to me, right? There is times when you're grating. At what point can I go, "Fuck off, dude." 'Cause I think there is some point in a friendship or an exchange where it's okay to have a moment where you do say something. 'Cause you can't just get away with it.

Josh: I think that part of it is like an empathy of like, okay, well, why? What are they wanting? And the thing is that if someone's doing that, if they're sort of heckling, sometimes what they're seeking is connection. And so saying—

Tommy: But you picking me up on words. Yeah, I get that. Is that not like my response to it? My frustration in it? Is that not you doubling down on it?

Josh: 100%, no, but you can do that. I think that's fine.

Tommy: But I want to know, is it Guernsey or—

Josh: That's definitely, well, it's not even correcting the spelling. Yeah, I know. So it's Guernsey, I would say is more appropriate.

Tommy: Yeah, what is a Guernsey? Guernsey is, yeah.

Josh: That's a country, is it? What is that? There is a country.

Tommy: Is it Guernsey? G-U-E-R-N-S-E-Y. No, but I think that it's, You don't have to—

Josh: don't you agree though that you don't have to react to everything?

Tommy: Yeah, but it's— I think communication, it's two ways, right? So you doing this to me is you not recognising that this shits me, but you still will get at me. And so what am I like— what am I meant to do? Just go, hey dude, can you just not do that? It's really like—

Josh: no, I think that was a fine, fine reaction, but I wonder what the—

Tommy: so when Mitch annoys me in the cafe and he knows he fucking does it. I know you do, Mitch. And sometimes I play into it hard 'cause I'm feeling like it, but the other times I don't wanna fucking play into it 'cause I don't really feel like it. So if it's a bit of being annoyed.

Josh: But if it's a bit of gear, how does he know when you're just being like, ah, fuck off. And it's like, ha ha ha, it's all fun versus actually going fuck off.

Tommy: It wasn't like, 'You need to fuck off.' Like, it wasn't that way. It's like, 'Oh, I dished it up in the same—' Do you reckon it would have more cut-through potential if it was like, 'Hey man, I haven't—

Josh: I've just got to concentrate right now'? Yeah, yeah, probably.

Tommy: But then he made it about me having to concentrate. That was his whole thing. 'Oh, he's got an important email coming through.' It's like, when do you win? I know the Bigger person would say, "Hey dude, you know how you do this? It's not really that good." No, but that's a difference.

Josh: You can't say it's not good or like all the, if you think about it.

Tommy: I'm saying good, it's annoying, I don't want you to do it to me.

Josh: But that's the difference. You can talk through your perspective, but I think these ideas of like saying, "Oh, this thing." I think using terms like, if you'd said, "Man, I don't want like, I don't wanna click on that hyperlink about the Get Serial thing." Like it doesn't, it doesn't, it doesn't work. Versus saying you're making about you again.

Tommy: But if we only ever have two sides, like me saying that is catering to you doing that all the time, and so that is a better way to deal with it. But then there's also the other side to any equation, that is, do I do that a lot? How could they be seeing that? And it's like for me with like how I come across, I have to—

Josh: but don't you think that, that then becomes a judgement beyond the specific thing.

Tommy: No, I think it's just having awareness about how the person's perceiving you, why they are— like if someone blows up at you, why? But then, but I think it's probably about what they're feeling, but it's also could be about how you're coming across. I think this, this is—

Josh: I just feel like maybe you give yourself, your feelings too much clout. Yeah. Over, okay, looking at it from an empathetic point of view, maybe this person—

Tommy: so I know it's like, but maybe they aren't doing any of that work. And so when is it, we can only rely on ourselves for how we deal with situations, but when is it ever on the other person to be doing their own thing? And we can't change somebody else.

Josh: Yeah, I just don't know if we need a school. Like I think that the thing about the vlogging stuff that always annoys you when I bring up that sort of stuff, but the thing is that that is—

Tommy: I actually don't have a camera that I could hold up like that. It's too heavy.

Josh: But the— that perspective is only an opinion, right? And there's lots of vloggers who just do their whole life and they're super successful with it. So me saying, oh man, you just make videos about yourself, why don't you try and make something about something else, is only an opinion. That's a content piece. That isn't a joke.

Tommy: And it can be backpedalling on what you say.

Josh: No, no, no, I'm saying that— no, I'm saying that that's all it is. It can't be be used as a judgment. Yeah. Of, um, oh, I'm always making about myself. Because there's fucking— if you are in a pot, like doing this podcast, a lot of it is just about ourselves. That's all we've got. All we've got is our perspective.

Tommy: I think for a lot of people, you would end up just not being surrounding yourself with the people, because you can only do so much, right? You can empathise for people around you and how they treat you, but then there comes a point of going, I'm actually just— because I've now done the work on me What I've done is the filter of I don't actually want to be around any of that. But that's the whole thing. You don't ever surround yourself.

Josh: But the difference is, the only difference between— like, I talk about myself all the time. The thing is that the only difference in that situation was how you were emotionally feeling and how you responded.

Tommy: So you normally ever— like, that's what the only pushback I have with that is, when is it two sides? Like, when do you need to come to the party to do a piece of work on that stuff?

Josh: No, well, I think that there's traits that are within people that aren't necessarily directly impacting. Me making you feel bad about your spelling, that is a negative trait that is specifically eating at you. Me talking about— But where's your part in that?

Tommy: Like, it just— That's what I'm saying.

Josh: Yeah, so in that moment, it's like, hey, you don't need to troll me on this. I think I'm doing my best. Versus another situation which is just like you're responding to something a person's doing, but it actually doesn't have to impact you if you don't want it to.

Tommy: I mean, we're talking about someone taking a clearer route to success. Like saying that, like we are, humans are emotionally charged. We are reactive to our feelings and you gotta try and be better. I think I need to try to be better. With processing in those moments, but we all fucking make mistakes. And so it's one thing to have it come out the best possible way, but then there's also the other side of the coin. Why does someone do that? Why?

Josh: But so if you don't do it through that, it doesn't seem like it's through empathy. I just felt like— I know how I felt.

Tommy: I know doing that is through empathy. But that's what I'm saying.

Josh: I'm— what I'm saying is that what me doing that is an empathy. Empathetic. And but the thing is that it's also, it's not empathetic to, I don't think, make judgments on specific people because it has impact. Because I'm like, oh, we, we're trying to create a, a space, a safe space where we can come up with ideas and we can say things and all that sort of stuff. And so that idea of, and especially when it's like, oh, we've got to actually go and record a show, like when we're going from that to recording a show, it's like, man, so much of what we do on the podcast is us expressing ourselves and giving our perspective. And actually, you know, put the brakes on. It's like, oh, well, I can't really bring everything that I was bringing.

Tommy: I also just think, like Amy brought up about— we're talking about ideas and, you know, collaborating, and when can you say an idea's bad, or should you say an idea is bad? It's such a hard one because there are shit ideas. Yes, and there is— if we only have our, you know, selves and our information inside and our perspectives to pull on, when someone asks you, what do you think of this? The empathetic version of that is understand the person's needs, understand what will serve them best in this endeavor. Or they're coming to you to say, why is— what do you think? And at what level do you be honest? Because—

Josh: but I think honesty— but don't you also think that—

Tommy: I'm just saying there's people who have made a lot of money off being right and saying it, and also being wrong. The people who are right have been wrong millions of times. And so at what point— I don't think it's— I don't think we live in a world where you can just say, no, we won't— I won't ever say how— what I think about this.

Josh: Yeah, but I also think that there's a danger in being adamant of like— I think that yours is prefaced with the idea that my perspective is right or I think my perspective is right. Whereas I think that it's worth, worth saying, hey, like someone asked you, should I do a YouTube channel full-time? You could easily roll into, I think this, I think this, I think you should do this, I think you should do that. But there's 100 questions that can be asked before that. There's perspective.

Tommy: Or someone's like, I made it work and you ask him, he says, yeah, dude, It was really tough. It was hard. It's the hardest thing I've ever done.

Josh: But if you don't— if this person fucking has a bunch of cash in the bank, doesn't have any commitments, or they're the other way, they came from nothing and made it.

Tommy: I think this is the thing. That's why I build a case around any piece of advice to sway towards they didn't have the right to fucking suggest that or say that.

Josh: But so I think that part of it is it's like, as the givers of advice or feedback, it needs to be given like, this is how I feel about this specific thing, but this isn't the truth. Because there's, especially when you're a kid, like if you know, and how adults speak to kids then impacts them down the track. You think about your relationship with teachers, they positioned you as this naughty boy, right? And so for, So for me being told, Josh, you're too noisy. I did a— to make it about me on Instagram. It is your podcast. I did a post. It's both of ours.

Tommy: No, you can say yours. I can say mine. I get it, dude.

Josh: Okay. Insert funny bit of joke there. Get a bit of claps. Well done. Never touch that again. This podcast. The Instagram, I did it. Student of the Week, and I got Student of the Week for practising giving other students a turn to speak. And, um, but there is—

Tommy: Mr. 97 can't contain himself back there. The thing is, that speaks to the guy that was over here wanting to show me the Get Serious.

Josh: But this is the thing, and that's my trigger point. That's why I'm like, you know what, yeah, yeah, you're playing into it, but I've gone fucking okay. And I also, I know that, I know that you think, I know that you think that I make it all about myself when I think, but the amount of like, if you think about how much anxiety I have that you're gonna upset Mitch or whatever, where does that— that doesn't come from me talking about myself. That become— that's me thinking about other people.

Tommy: So I think the only difference between you and I talking about this, if you were the one with a bone to pick with Mitch, you wouldn't go back to the cafe after doing this episode. That's true.

Josh: Absolutely not. You're going to double down now. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Any other thought, Mr. 97? Have you got any thoughts on all of this shit? You're going to think that you're you can be the voice of reason, the referee, and can you just not fucking side with people like you just did before?

Tommy: But if you do, you know which way to go, bro.

Mason: Yeah, I don't know, it's just sort of understanding. Yeah, I think, I think as a person like giving the other person shit, there's definitely, uh, some sort of understanding and some sort of, um, there's like, there's like a point that you have to realise that you're going beyond what the other person might think is like jovial and joking and stuff. But yeah, as a person sort of copying it, I think yeah, there's definitely a point to speak up and sort of—

Josh: How do you speak up, do you think? Do you think Tommy's aggression telling Mitch at the cafe to fuck off, I felt like it was too much.

Mason: Well, I wasn't there. It depends how aggressive.

Tommy: It wasn't, it was jovial.

Josh: How do you say it? I can't even remember.

Tommy: Fuck off. Yeah, there's something like that.

Mason: Yeah, but it's, it's like, it just happens in the moment.

Tommy: Like, it's just, we— it's not— he's not someone that I haven't ever had a conversation with and I'm telling you to fuck off. There's been joking, like, and then it's like, at that point, it is, it's edging. It is my version of saying, dude, can you please stop this? Without saying. It's like playing into the, the tone that we have anyway. To then go fuck off. And then his gear becomes around, he's got some important emails to write. Yeah.

Josh: Were you ever positioned as that? Were you ever branded as a bully growing up?

Tommy: Uh, maybe. I don't know. No, I had lots of friends and I was friendly with lots of people. So did you be right? But I did, I knew kids that weren't. If anything, dude, I got bullied by older kids and that's why I fucking smashed them. That's why, like, I would get in fights with older people And maybe that's why I learned to fight, but it's like I was the target maybe because I stood out from people.

Josh: Or are you an easy target based on your reactions?

Tommy: No, I think 100% think it was I was standing out and just my personality and probably talking. And, you know, it was always older kids. What are they doing? How that— like, I'm not reacting to them, but like, definitely, definitely there was a bunch of us that would be bullied by older kids. And yeah, what's your smug look for?

Josh: That's not a smug look, I'm just thinking. It's a daily talk show, anything else?

Tommy: Like, I just think there's— it's not good enough to awareness if you can only control the awareness in yourself. You can't disregard the piece of awareness someone around you needs to have done.

Josh: I think that there's probably there's a time and so you're reactionary in the moment. Oh, I don't think it's right.

Tommy: I don't think it's right, 100%.

Josh: There is always like, if you feel that way, it's probably better to figure out, is this like, is this a constant thing that's always happening? Is it something that I actually need to work on? I'm pretty aware though, dude.

Tommy: I don't think many people are aware to that extent. That's what I'm saying.

Josh: So when you react, you're talking about like you're reacting to this woke state and you're giving them this bit of information that you need.

Tommy: No, I'm not saying I'm woke.

Derek: No, no, no, no, no.

Tommy: I'm saying there is a piece of awareness. I don't think being aware is reacting to how I feel. That's not being aware, that's reacting to my feelings. You're saying you should do this piece of work around how do you feel, say it like this. But what I'm saying is if I haven't done that, they're sure as fuck not doing that because they're the ones that are baiting or doing the thing or being the way that—

Josh: Oh no, they've read it differently. Yeah, and so they had a different thinking, they've had a different thinking sort of experience than what you had. But the idea that they've said this thing because they're not thinking puts your perspective in this—

Tommy: this is why some people don't fucking have friends or have people wanting to hang out with them, because it's at such a level where they've got no awareness. Yeah. So other people around them are aware enough to, to not even— they don't even want to say anything. Because that's what I said, how do you say this to people? Like, because I think even doing the clean approach or the kosher approach of saying, hey man, this is really getting to me, I think he's probably like, what do you mean? Like, my awareness doesn't jolt necessarily the other person into this awareness state.

Josh: But then it feels like, I think that maybe you'd probably feel better about it, or if you had to do that, if that was the way that you were going to communicate to them, then it forces you to make the decision of like, is this really Am I just emotionally unnecessarily responding to this person?

Tommy: This is why I like work, you know, in work environments there's people that just aren't liked at all because they've got no awareness and everyone around, like I've seen this happen on big, you know, sort of—

Josh: But we couldn't get away with half the stuff, like what we do in our office, if that was within a bigger context of HR, it would be fine.

Tommy: This is why we have our own business.

Josh: Yeah, but that's, I mean, that's the perspective that I'm pulling from is being at a a lot of fucking businesses. It's hard.

Tommy: You take the chains off Mr. Morrison. Yeah, only one side.

Josh: But the, um, it's connected to the wall. It's very hard. You can't do much nowadays. Even when I was walking here this morning, uh, there was a programme for frequent flyer points and someone had graffitied, uh, why don't you fly less, dickhead? And so people are getting on that. They did it on all of the signs around Collingwood Yeah, so I guess you gotta care about something. Yeah, I mean, what do you guys take out of this? Yeah, anything? You still there? Hi@thedailytalkshow.com if you want to send us an email.

Tommy: I hope so. Like, I try and use what we're talking about for like— and I try and connect it to themes that other people might actually resonate with. Yeah, the person in their life that's annoying.

Josh: Anything else you want to get off your back so it's a bit of a clear— anything that's annoying you or— no.

Tommy: No, all good. Feel good, feel good. This podcast is cathartic.

Josh: It's good. Are you gonna go speak to Mitch maybe? Oh no.

Tommy: Okay, if you— Mitch, Mitch, if you've made it this far, he would have— you know what you're doing to me.

Josh: It's a daily talk show. See you tomorrow. See you guys.