#080 – Beyond motivation with Craig Harper/

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To tell a talk show everyone Episode 80 I'm Josh Johnson I'm Tommy jacket and we thought Id episodes in we we've been speaking about someone and we think we need to finally get them on

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well he's What is he the supposed my spoken about person on our podcast

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the most quoted probably yeah the

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definitely the most quoted and I even find myself pretending I'm him

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cry copper welcome might

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Hello boys when do you pretend you're may Tom well

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no I think I if you listen Have you listened to the podcast know

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why cuz you always know the

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rights that is not true I've listened to bits and pieces but I will say yeah

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by the time I get through Joe Rogan each week yeah

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there's 24 hours no I think there's moments in the podcast where I have something I say something really great but then I realized that it's I've just heard you say it I'm saying it's just a

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good correct and profound shifts that comes there is

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nothing you know that's one of the funny things about personal development fucking philosophy and wisdom and behavioral psychology and you know self help there's nothing new everybody's just sharing the same things and they're the you know, what I do is I Craig a fight. So I stand in front of a group or an audience or write something. And there's really there are new ways perhaps of saying the same thing. But there's, there's very little that's being shared in terms of how we should live or grow or learn or behave or adapt or be happy. There's nothing new, there's nothing you can read stuff that three 4000 years old that says what people think is groundbreaking today, and the same issues that we had, you know, 234 thousand years ago, you know, who am I? What's my purpose? What's the meaning of life? How do I be happy? I can, you know, all that stuff. It's the same society, how do you Craig a fire, I try to turn it into a language that people connect with, you know, like, especially in Australia, we don't love self help, we're a bit wary. So, people are, you know, if you look or smell like, you know, the self help guru people, a lot of people the majority will not buy into that. I'm not that anyway, but, you know, the thing is people relate to Ozzy's relate to everyone does, but also he's, especially relate to humor and stories. And so, if I can share a message around, you know, whatever it is, like doing the hard stuff first, you know, like all the value of getting uncomfortable from a physical, mental, emotional, spiritual, behavioral professional perspective, like, what happens when we do the hardship first, and we don't put stuff off, and then I tell them a story. Well, when I was setting up my business, or when I did this, or that, or I tell him something that's been insightful and funny, you create an emotional connection. And if you create an emotional connection with people,

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then they're much more likely to one remember that and two more likely to do something with that. So if you guys, for example, get on your podcast, and you share all this brilliant fucking information, but you're both boring and you're unreliable, which is so far seems to be the case actually just

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read one of the iTunes reviews.

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That's the thing. People like it, you know, like, you guys are both all jokes aside, you know, you got good personalities, you're likable, and that's part of it. That's part of it is how do I not just what do I want to say, and what's my message, but how the fuck do I connect with people like, yeah, that's

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my constant challenge. I've been sending Josh and I, I I call it trawling. But I like to tag him in people online, that I find interesting, more people that are just trying to sell sheets. And they making funny videos. But there's this one guy. And he's, it's he. He's the hot ass self help guy. And I'm just pigeonholing him. But what I think he's lacking is empathy. He's, you know, the, you know, no one's going to help you, you got to do it yourself. But he says it with this almost aggression. And if I was to sort of break down what you do, it's like, you're the you have a level of empathy in the way you communicate your very straightforward messages. And so I think that's why you have connected with so many body. But

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also I come from the place of Hey, by the way, on the fucking idiot, too. So it's all good. Like, we're all a bit broken, and all a bit amazing. We're old, dysfunctional. We've all got issues. I'm an over thinker, my ego gets in the way, my fear gets in the way, but in the middle of all of that humanity, right. None of that's weakness. That's just being normal, that's being human. In the middle of all of that, I still have the opportunity to do my best, I still have the opportunity to learn and grow and ask great questions, and roll up my sleeves and do the work and everybody has, if you stand up on a stage is like, you fucking got it all together. And you're the pinnacle of success and performance and knowledge and insight and wisdom, no one's connecting with you, you know, because no one is that person anyway. So when, you know, yesterday, I was in Adelaide, we had a couple of hundred people. And, you know, the, the fact that I will talk about my own issues and my own challenges and my own insecurities, as well as giving them some solid strategic kind of direction. and education means that I'm going to create greater connection because I'm coming from a place of authenticity. And also,

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I'm speaking experientially I'm not, this is not something I read in a book. And now I'm telling you the thing that I read in a book like I've, I've employed over 500 people I've written for the Herald Sun. I've been on national television for three years, I've written books, I've fact up I've made money. I've lost money on being fat, have been skinny. I've done amazing gigs where everybody there was, it was fucking magic. And I've done gigs where I walked out going, that's it. I'm never doing this again. I'm shit ass. And

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21 life. 21 year old life coach can actually teach me anything. I'm telling you.

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That guy probably needs to get to least 22

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maybe more hands on. Yeah, but I mean, everyone can teach everyone something. Yeah.

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What was the young version of you? How much have you developed

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have developed a lot. I was always very curious. And I was I never thought I was very which I'm not. But I never thought I was spectacular. I always had pretty shit self esteem, but but good curiosity. And I was not particularly scared of trying stuff. So talk about the fact ups at the beginning, or is that right? That's a good question. No, not so much. Because I I guess on some level, I didn't consciously think this, but I guess on some level,

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I was embarrassed. Or if I thought, you know, I think to a level we all feel like we're faking it till we make it right. Yeah. And I think part of, you know, part of that is that we want to, we want to portray an image, you know, without being fraudulent, but we want to present our best selves, and oh, yeah, I can do that. Yeah, no problem. And sometimes behind that, I'm thinking fuck out. An offer can do that. But yeah, I think for a while

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on I level I was fraud because I wasn't doing everything I was teaching. I remember, even as you know, set up first personal training business in Australia

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trained 10s of thousands of people over 30 odd years and 10s of thousands of sessions anyway. And there were times when I would be telling my clients to do a certain thing, then I'd be going home and buying fucking Kentucky Fried Chicken and eating 5 million calories worth of shit at night, and then go on me, not me, not me. Not, you know, it's because you just you're embarrassed. But at the same time, you know, I was a fat little kid. And so with that being a morbidly obese kid, whose name was jumbo, and all that stuff. That was my name at school. Very few people call me, Craig. And then we thought stuff that 14 year old fat she lives on. Yeah, you know, and you will you think I'll cry, you're 54. Fuck, you must have it all together. And on a practical level, I think I have it a lot of it together. But on a on a human level, you're still that the fat 14 year old still is hanging around. So if

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the commodity if the interest factor is in your backups, it's in the way things haven't gone, right. It's in the personal stuff. How do you how do you know what to share and whatnot to share? Do you just become an open book and talk about everything? Um,

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yeah, as I was talking with Tommy about this before, like, there's a big difference between

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standing in front of an audience and giving a presentation. You know, I'm doing a presentation on Monday to a bunch of accountants, and there's eight points and there's an intro. And then there's my eight points. And then there's an outright and each point is going to take about six minutes, 10 times 60. That's my 60 minutes. And that's good, right? Well, that's very choreographed and rehearsed. And that's a very difficult way to create real connection and to create real impact. And it's very hard to be in the moment and be organic, and be intuitive and read an audience. And because I've been in front of so many audiences, audience audiences of one with my clients through to audiences of whatever through the media, I'm used to

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reading situations, circumstances and people in the moment. So I'm quite instinctive in that. If I feel like where I'm going, is not connecting. I'll change direction. But I'll also in the middle of it go. Yeah, many times. I've gone many times, probably 100 times in the middle of a presentation. I've said, All right. So from here, we've got 30 minutes to go. I could I could cover this stuff more I could go. We could talk more about you know, the body stuff. So exercise, lifestyle, nutrition, or we can head more down the behavioral psychology, what the facts going on with my head thinking beliefs and values, fear, anxiety. So do you want to do that the more head psychological stuff or the physiological stuff, and I let them decide. So then, you know, and if it PayPal it percent, and people go, my head's a fucking nightmare, I overthink the shit out of everything. Can you explore that I'm not cool. Wearing strapping, hold on, let's go. And that way you're making them part of the decision making process of what we actually cover. It's knowing your audience to I guess you get it, getting an understanding of what they care about, or what makes you feel like you might be the most articulate person in town. But being articulate and having a great speaking skills doesn't mean you're creating connection. Yeah,

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I've seen the impact that you know, when whenever Tommy catches up with you, I feel like

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I you expect if you go to someone who is maybe in the motivational realm or something like that they're going to be hyped or something like that. But the thing that I noticed when after Tommy speaks with you with is a level of clarity that he has, it's, it's less about being jazz, dope motivated and more of a reassurance in where he's going. Is that is that one on one style? Is that your preferred method? Is that what you think the the biggest impacts

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what I love one on one, but it's not efficient. So that's why I do one on 1000.

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But in terms of, you know, getting jazz and, you know, look big, motivated and pumped and excited has a place but Tommy's heard this a million times, but motivations temporary, so come so getting pumped and excited. I'm pretty sure I've said that on this podcast. It doesn't create long term change. So you know, if you're in the zone, and pumped and happy and that's great. But what I care about is what happens on Thursday, when you don't feel that you you couldn't give a fuck, you know, because, I mean, the truth is that we all want to you guys want to succeed with this podcast, you both want to succeed with your individual careers. I want to impact more people, we all want to be a bit healthier, bit happier. We all want, you know, a better income or more calm or a bit of marriage, or we all want this shit that we all want. So let's get clear. What is it that you want? Right? what is success for you? Because for you will not be the same for me? and so on. So on. Let's get clear about that. And then cool now, what are the things that you need to be consistently doing? Not when you're not when you're excited, but fucking every day, day in day out whether or not it's fun, quick, easy, comfortable, popular or not? What are the things that for, you know, to be completely fucking non negotiable. And so like, and, you know, it's not often I'm super serious around Tommy. But you guys would be commended because you've done it podcasts. And I know that you both busy outside the podcast and there's a fair bit of organizing and running around and getting people in a fair bit of prep and stuff and I know what it's like when you're doing something and you're grinding and this final feedback initially anyway, but now you guys are getting some momentum and but most people would have given up at number 30, number 15. But here you are your idea and and I'm sure you know, at podcast number 150, you will be back here and we'll be talking like decades about progression then but it's just that you've both got personalities and you're both smart and you've both got skills but all of that is fucking redundant. If you are not going to consistently do what needs to be done to create a good podcast day in day out which most people want to most people don't fail because they lack skill or knowledge or potential they fail because they just won't do the work consistently over time

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and I think even Tommy that's what Tommy and I were talking this morning where we're all channeling house was really was what we've done, we've done it episodes and we've done that based on consistency showing up every day and making that our priority and I'm a little bit undiagnosed, add it back in wired,

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well, I've got two two dx I'm a dog according to cry and the

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and so

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I'm always so that the thought at the moment is that, okay, we've nailed down consistency. We need to we've done the track at times, now we need to fucking recalibrate, increase the engine, add some new stickers on the side, when when do you start to look around and actually stopped the doing and the consistency and actually reflect

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well, I don't know that you need to stop the doing. But I think either literally or metaphorically, perhaps literally in a to hit the pause button and go, right, we're not doing one for a week, we're going to stand back get some perspective or maybe metaphorically, where you you just spend a day together or a half day together, just listening, thinking, brainstorming, it's difficult to find objective perspective or objectivity about something that you are in the middle of, but, but irrespective of all of the other variables, you know, content, execution quality, I can personalities, you know, equipment, all that stuff. If you don't turn up every day, everything else is redundant. So you guys are turning up every day. It's like with the gym. You can have a million dollar gym at your disposal, great genetics, great plan, great ideas, great intention, great resources, but if you're not there training you getting no fucking results. And so you know, but I think what I would be doing is even throwing it open to your audience going, what do you love? What you love? What do you want to hear more of? What do you think just as a product? Because the thing about you know, motivational speakers The thing about podcasts, the thing about fitness products, the thing about fucking whatever clothing stores cafes, is it million of them billion. And so you need to go well, if we just rock up every whatever that had to how often you do this every day, every day. If

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every day

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we kind of do what everyone else is doing. There's no way that we can stand out because we're not doing anything outstanding. So on the one hand, you got to be practical and deliver content and hopefully find some guests. But at the same time, mediocre is not the goal, you know. So it's a constant reevaluation. It's a constant, how are we going what's working. And that's why it's good for you to have like, you both creative. So you both get the process. But But neither of you. Like literally right now we're sitting in a studio, you guys are on the opposite side of the table to Me, neither of you have ever set over here and looked at you or heard you will had a conversation with you. So I could give you feedback about you that you couldn't give you about you. Because you are you and I know that sounds ridiculous. That's part of the you know, because you're not trying to make you guys happy. You're trying to create global connection. Yeah, and people want to give feedback to Ryan like, I think that our defaults seem to be, you know, I'm going away for three months to Europe, and everyone has a fucking opinion on how you do a way should stay. You know, don't do it that way. Don't travel this way.

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What how do you

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how do you filter feedback? And how do you realize that okay to be so that, you know, faster? horses faster? You know, analogy? How do you how do you filter out the good from the bad feedback? When do you listen way talking about feedback that people just give you Yo, are you talking about feedback that you've sought? Yeah, interesting. Well, I think that, you know, for for one sort of case, we have our email address, and we'll get we asked people to send through emails and what sort of thing and I really put that on a pedestal because people have gone to the effort of writing to us. Yeah, I listened to us. Yeah, they're probably heard to the end of the podcast. Yeah. So for me, it's about audience research. Yeah. All that sort of thing. Yeah. When people you know, when I haven't specifically asked, it's normally probably not as valuable, because I'm not saying it at the time. Yeah,

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well, I think, you know, if you ask, you need to be very clear about what you want feedback on, not just give us your thoughts. Just go, Hey, you know, we're thinking of adding this. What do you guys think of that? Well, you know,

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like, I know, for example, because I do a lot of stuff in social media, I can tell what people like because the stuff that they like, I get lots of feedback on I get lots of, you know, approval on. And so that's that's a good directive. And that's good feedback.

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But you know, I'm a bit older and as you've pointed at Josh grumpier,

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no no, really I'm just because I have so many conversations about kind of the same stuff, you get to the point where you go, I'm not having this conversation again, you know, and so when someone goes to me, and I haven't asked for it, how, you know, what you should do I go, yep, I do. Thanks. I shut it down. Yeah, unless, you know, it depends on who and what and where. But I think, you know,

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there's a, there's a point where you can only I'm not, I'm not saying I'm not coming from a place of arrogance, but I'm, I'm coming from point of the only people that know, your vision for what you want to do be create is you two guys and I think you need to filter the feedback and gauge the feedback accordingly, because you you ask 100 people, I'll give you an example. I was writing a thing the, a few weeks ago and spirituality and I was trying to, I'm trying to get my head around this, this kind of new component to what I'm talking about with people, not so, we're all walking around in fucking caftans. And you know like hugging each other and playing a tambourine or whatever. But so that we might open the door. But what is spirituality? Like? What is it? Like? Is it consciousness? Is it is a thought involved? Or is it that kind of wisdom that lives beyond the thought, you know, and so I thought, you know what I'm gonna do, I'm gonna, I've got a bunch of friends who are spiritual, and I'm going to send them all on a mile inside, or a message and say, could you just write for your words, not Google, not anything, just

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the definition of spirituality, not what it means to you personally, but what spirituality is. So if someone came from another planet, and you had to try and explain to them I will, spirituality is, you know, it's like, you go, well, what's grass? I will. grasses. It's easy. Or what's what's milk? Well, milk is that I but what spirituality. So give me a definition, but written in your words. So I literally asked 10 of them, ranging from Christian ministers to Buddhists to people who are just literally spiritual kaftan wearing tops that I know. And they all sent me a definition and all the definitions with different like, none of them were even there was a little bit but they were all very different, unlike men. And these are people who are spiritual. Yeah.

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And so, you know, what's my point? My point is, you might get three or four people who give you some feedback and it is really relevant for them. But 97 out of 100, it's not. So it's trying to find the consensus and because, you know, is what we're doing, connecting. Is it working? And are we meeting a need? are we serving the people that are listening and TJ, you have got you've over the years had a lot of people around you who are into coaching into motivational stuff, they come and go harps is someone who over the last few years, I've seen you sort of Cape at and be one of those consistent sort of mentors, as you might call them. What is it? Do you think about harps, that keeps you coming back and keeps you sort of on that focus? I

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think it's that orange top that I had that

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thought when sugar that leaves were there, you know, but to be honest, I have gone in and out of your stuff, not you messages and it's like being into Eckart tolle totally for a little bit, because it's really resonating. And I've already this we found your stuff resonating. And then not that it's not, but I've just been on to something else. Yeah. And then and then all of a sudden, you've been talking to me, I'm like back, you know, it's like Penny drops. It's like I'm in a different stage. And I see it with your with the audience you have I just at a time where what is what you're saying is resonating because they might grow out of it, and evolve into another, not greater or lesser, just something. And I find that really interesting. I've. And it's interesting when it's someone who's actually a good friend. And that happens with Yeah,

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yeah. And it's almost like, one of the interesting things about that approach is, I think it's very different to mine. Because in some regards, it's dabbling into motivation when you need it or seeking out when you when you feel that that's a point, it's almost like if I was to use an analogy, and we love analogies here on the on the show hops. It's the equivalent of people with LinkedIn, right? Probably are, can it percent of people will only ever update their LinkedIn when they're looking for a new job, right? My point my whole life has been, if I just keep it consistent all the time, then it means that if I fucking hate my job, or if I want to go to a new place, I don't, people aren't gonna be noticing any difference. Yeah, and it's the same thing with this motivational thing. I find that I've got I'm constantly absorbing that content. And it's something that I shift the type of content and listening to depending on what it is. I feel like it the gap, but do you feel like one works better than the other define that I might do I become too much about myself and my two inwards focus if I'm constantly Yeah,

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that's a really good question, Josh, because,

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like, I know, there's a difference between self management and self obsession. Yeah, right. So all of us want to manage ourselves. So I want to manage my mind, my body, my choices, my lifestyle, my relationships in a healthy way. I don't want to pretend everything's good when it shit. But at the same time, I don't want to create problems. So it's that constant, you know, how do I manage my mind? Because my mind your mind is the, the operation center for planet Josh, that's where everything happens. Decisions, actions, reactions, that's where all that stuff's born, processing the world around you, giving things value and meaning and purpose and what's my truth and what's my passion and what it told me and are going to do next. And how do we build this grow that what's that guy looking at? Who she What's this, all of that is an internal dialogue. And it's some of that's healthy, and some of its fucking internal chaos, right? So it's trying to many jail mind so that we have a healthy platform to manage our life. And really, you know, people call me the motivational speaker and I get it because that's what they understand. But really, I talk about self management and whether or not that is

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how I manage my mind or my emotions on my body. It's all intertwined. And and it's a paradox to it. Because you've got like a Elon Musk's bookies laughs fucked and a lot of ways, right? Like, he's a, he's a dude who has no sense of balance. And so I think that, you know, Tommy and I've spoken about, you know, friends like George land who's been extremely successful, but in a lot of ways is fucking wide and always on and he's fuel is the anxiety that he needs to be moving forward. how, you know, yeah, where, where do you manage it? How do you realize, okay, this is fuel that's helping motivate, and it might be even a fighter right? There might be a lot of a fuel from a fighter to be able to think I want to fucking smash this guy who I'm about to get into a ring with I should not use fighting analogies to say another analogy. But sometimes they fall flat, but nothing really great hop. How do you understand the few? You know, how do you understand what

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you say? It's the same with jewels. And I don't know, that's right. I have met I met chills that you're willing to me, he's boy.

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But like, for example, what happens sometimes with people who are very dedicated, will say, that's a euphemism for obsessed, very dedicated to a process, a sport, a business or an outcome is that the vast majority of the physical, mental and emotional energy goes into that thing. And so they don't have a lot of balance, right? So it comes back to a probably a, I know where you're going, Josh, and tell me if I'm wrong. But I think a better question is, how do we define success for us personally? What is that? Like? Is it possible, let's say not jewels, let's say someone else. But let's say is it possible that this guy or this guy on mask is a perfect example. Is it possible that and let's say is it possible that he's building amazing stuff, he's doing amazing things with technologies, potentially changing the landscape of the world in some ways, with with some of the things that he's bringing into our country ness and our physical world. So in some ways, he's killing it. But if behind the scenes, or away from the technology and the physical results that he's producing, if he is a physical, mental, emotional, and spiritual Rick, is he still successful if he's emotional bank balances, zero, if he's, you know, and that there's no judgment in this, this, I'm just asking questions. And so, you know, like, for many times, I've worked with people who set a goal they got, they achieved the goal. And when they got there, they went fact, this is not it, because I'm still shit, I'm still miserable. So we tell ourselves stories. One of one of the stories is, I'll be happy, when I'll be happy. When I'll be happy. When we've got a million listeners, I'll be happy when we've got 2 million, or I'll be happy when I'm driving this, or owning that, or living there or earning that and there's nothing wrong with any of those external things. But when our entire focus on success is physical, or external, that is stuff that is accolades, achievements, tangible things, what often happens, not always, but often, what often happens is we have an internal chasm be that emotional, spiritual, or psychological, which I know is deep, but it's true, because I know lots of rich failures hates on a lots of people who are succeeding, they are externally killing it, and people would put them in the success category. But at the same time, you know, some of the reality is anything but successful. So it's trying to marry up the, I guess, you know, my, my, my passion is to help people achieve, but also to find purpose and meaning and truth and success in the context of their true values. Like, there's not many people that if I say, what are your values, they're going to say, money. Most people will say, Well, my vows I go, what things like, I guess, health and connection and family. And most people would say that whether or not they're being genuine or not, but most people would say that, but if you look at how we live, it seems like like the overwhelming value for most people is generating money. Yeah. So now let me pay that back. Is there anything wrong with Elon Musk generating No, nothing. There's nothing wrong with making lots of money. There's nothing wrong with wrong with driving a fucking Bentley or living on, you know, be tried and looking at the ocean. Nothing wrong with that. The only danger is when our stuff out external results start to become our identity. When what I have and what I own, and what I learned becomes who I am, then I'm always Tommy answer that then I'm always going to be vulnerable. I'm always going to be vulnerable, because that stuff can disappear. And what

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what is that story? What is the story that you tell yourself in terms of success? Yeah, I mean, I guess even even to get to this point in your career, it feels like there's some now there's been a narrative that's been created. Yeah. out of your control, even sure. And then I guess it's our choice of how we

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reconcile that narrative and say, Okay, well, this, this is my perspective on it. You know, how do you how do you reconcile the fact that we all are storytellers, and the better the storyteller, the more sort of probably in grind, it is what, what is the story part of my story is that I grew up in a paradigm basically, that taught, you know that what you do, it's like, we're all kind of trying to, okay, so you, you leave school and you go to uni, or you leave school and you get a job and you get a job, then you get a wife or husband whatever, the cases and then you then you have a kid or two, then you you know, you buy a station wagon and you pay it off and then you know, you have family and friends and then grandchildren then you die or the best You know, that's kind of the almost the unwritten formula but and I will I didn't know that, that's for sure. But I left school I got a job and then I didn't like working for other people too much. So I started my own thing and I got to the point where by the time I was 30 on my business for a while I i on the only Personal Training Center in a I was going recently well things were good practically financially, professionally brand all that stuff going good and but one day kind of literally one day I woke up and went out on love this you know, and in the middle of my pretty good brand, pretty good profile, pretty good bank balance all of those things, nothing wrong with any of those things. But that for me didn't equate to I feel awesome and I love my life did you

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think you had to go through all of that

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I did. I did think that I did think that and I'm not blaming anyone but that's how I was trying to like from the moment we can you know rationalize were being trained unconsciously. We're being programmed by the media, by our parents, by a friend's by appears by teachers, by a pastor, by our Rabbi, whoever it isn't, I'm not saying that's a bad thing. That's just what happens because we're little information gatherers. We just soak up packing stuff constantly. We're constantly especially when you're a kid you're constantly learning whether or not that's intentional or not, you know so I when I was raised in a very Catholic environment I learned that everyone except me and my Catholic might Sutherland that everyone was going to hell now and that's not even that sounds funny but that's not even questioned cycle everyone's wrong way right? Oh really a fact that's terrible

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for them pretty darn good for us because Hell's

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hot you know and i mean you now as you know yeah oh alright well well that Yeah, okay. I know what was going on. That's all right. But everyone grows up in a paradigm of belief. Yeah, you know if your mom and dad believe if your mom and data for example, Jewish and I Barrick for Carlton and dad votes this way. And there's a fair chance you're going to be all of that. Like you're not going to grow up and be a Buddhist in that house. And you know, can be a Catholic SM didn't. exactly exactly. So we kind of become whoever raised us. Yeah. And the challenge for us is to

32:59
to sometimes hit the pause button and go and by the way, I'm not saying that's a bad thing. That's a human thing. The challenges to go Okay, well, apart from what I've been taught and told and programmed, what do I actually fucking thing like? What I have my beliefs? Where do my beliefs come from? Are they actually my beliefs? Or are they dads and I'm just wearing them because they're comfortable, they're comfortable. And I don't want to disagree with that, because I love that. And so these are my beliefs too. And boom, now and 50 and I'm living a compromised life.

33:30
Well, Tommy and I talked about that with fatherhood. Right. So.

33:35
Tommy, you know How old's Bodie now? You bought a month, 14 months, and I've never planned on having kids. And it's a conversation and having a best mate, who is a dad, you start to, you know, you start to question some of the decisions and you start saying, Okay, well, maybe you see the joy that it brings TJ in his life. And so you start to wonder, whoa, hang up, well, maybe, maybe my push back in doing everything, the standard way, maybe the the pushback in mediocrity or sort of living this sort of life. Maybe that's ill informed. Maybe I'm giving so much pushback to this life that's expected. I'm not fucking doing anything. I'm not getting the I've been with brain my girlfriend for over 10 years. And I love the idea of commitment. I love like, you know, plan on being with her together, but forever. But the idea of marriage I have pushed back just because of everyone else's fucking doing it is that it's not a problem.

34:39
It's not a problem. But what that is on your pad is that is self awareness. And that is that is emotional intelligence. And for someone who's on the spectrum, that's very good of you.

34:50
I mean, that in a loving way. But it is what that is, is you starting to realize what you're like. And that's that's the beginning of consciousness and self awareness. And I think resisting stuff for the sake of resisting it is stupid. Yeah, if you want to get married, get married. If you don't, don't, you don't want to have a baby baby. If you don't done

35:09
you know, I'm 54 never been married and won't be married. Don't have a kid whenever kid that and I'm not saying so this is the lifestyle. This is what? Not at all. Not at all. I think most people should not do what I've done because it would not work for them. It works for me. So it's trying to find what is the thing that works for you. And you know, the funny thing is that, how do you judge

35:30
28? Yeah, so

35:31
when you were 22, what really worked for you wouldn't work for you when you're 28. Yeah, right. Because there are times in our life. We're not only as success different for Tommy, and Josh and Craig. But there are times when success for Josh at 21 is not successful. Josh at 25, or 28, and some of the things that now turn you on and kind of, you know, blow your socks off and excite you. When you're 35, you can go to fuck was that a band?

35:56
It's because you evolve. And as you evolve, what will work for you in inverted commas? That changes. So you saying, Josh, that you've had the you've had the thought that maybe you were thinking that just because you didn't want to do what everyone else is doing? Well,

36:10
I think that it's the i feel like i i rationalize, like, I try and rationalize the decisions I make, and so fatherhood or, you know, becoming a parent, my thoughts behind it, or the narrative is that I only want to do it if I know that I can can support them really well. So I don't want to be in a situation where things is a really hard I want to make sure that I can give them my time, I guess that maybe I look around and I see you know, I went to a pretty low socio economic school bit of a public school. And I see a lot of people popping out babies, which is fine. And it's that sort of journey that they're wanting to go on. But I think that there's a desire and may to, if I'm going to do it, I want to do it really well. And I feel like for an 18 year commitment, there's a bunch of things that I need to do for life commitment. Yeah.

37:07
And the thing is, and TJ talks about it, there's no fucking good time to have a kid. And

37:12
yeah, well, if we were to take that out of just that situation of having a kid waiting for something to happen before you do it, or getting prepared, putting the ducks in a line or in an older in a rock in arrive, got there. Can you not fuck

37:32
you to the metaphors? Exactly. Yeah, look,

37:34
I think that, you know, having a kid is impractical. Having a kid is expensive, and messy and terrifying, and beautiful, and rewarding and glorious, it's everything. It's, it's, it's not a strategic thing. You know, it's a human thing. And as you say, I mean, who am I bet I've watched a lot of people do it, and a lot watched a lot of people do it well, and maybe not so well. But as an observer from the, the outside looking in, who is probably more objective,

38:04
I think that, you know, the, the biggest determinant, irrespective of is it practical? Is this the right time? logistically, is this a good decision? It's more about whether or not you're just fucking emotionally ready. Yeah, because you can have all your ducks in a row, there's your metaphor,

38:20
you can have everything sorted. But if you personally are not ready, it's going to be a fucking trainwreck. what's

38:27
what's been your thought process around fatherhood and things? Yeah,

38:30
yeah, that's a good question. So for me, I I never planned to not get married. I just, I just didn't. And I guess if I'm being I'm being honest. But yeah, you know, I've got to the point a few times where I was a maybe, and I went, can I honestly, and this is no reflection on any of the the girls that I've been out with. It's a reflection on my floors. Not this. Can I confidently say, I'm going to be here for the next 30 or years? And the answer was no. So I'm then our I can't, I can't, you know, not all look back? I think so. I hope so. I'll cross my fingers. And then I woke up one day and I was 40 I'm like, all right. And then I was 45. And yeah, so I think this is an interesting question or an interesting conversation. Because I think I always say to people, you know,

39:22
my life is full. And I have a lot of friends and I have a lot of, I have a lot of conversations with a lot of people, you know, guys and girls and, and I'm with people or I'm alone like I'm with it's busy, or it's quiet because I live by myself. And so if you took Craig hopper and you took him out of his current reality, why am I talking? Why is he talking in the third person, if we took me out of my reality, and all of a sudden, I was the kid who grew up in electro Valley and instead of going lift, I went right and lock a lot of my mates, I started working at the power station, you know, the SEC and I became a boiler maker or welder or pot fit in nothing wrong with any of those careers. And I went down that path and I was living up there and Terrelle going to a mall well, or whatever, I probably would have had three kids and a wife and be, you know, relatively happy. I guess it's just that it depends where you are in life as well.

40:14
So you reject the idea. Because I guess the, you know, we, we run on fee a lot of the times and so the choice of not having kids. Yes, see that I am not ready. Or that's not part of my life. Or that the idea of you know, Tommy and I've talked about the fact that if I did if brain I did have kids would probably adopt or something like that. Yeah. You know, is the, I guess the, the other side of the coin? Is that fee that you're going to turn to be in your 50s or 60s. And you'd be fucking alone. Yeah, and it's gonna be sad that I mean,

40:51
how many times have you had that conversation a lot?

40:54
I have that a lot. And I don't, you know, is it alien formed? Is it paper at all? I mean, some people don't get married, and I get it. I get that I get that thinking. And I'm not offended by that at all, at all, are respected. In fact,

41:10
I guess like a lot of people really do not, like legitimately don't like being alone. I legitimately like being alone. Yeah, I could travel the world by myself for two years, and not have a meaningful conversation with anyone and have fun. Well, I have, you know, but I mean, I, I'm very good in my own space. I've lived by myself since I was 17 years old. Yeah, that's 37 years of living alone. So I'm real good at it. And real good at being alone. I'm also a real good at being with people. And I'm also a real good at listening. And I'm fascinated by people.

41:43
I'm quite spiritual, and I'm quite a deep thinker. So the idea of death doesn't terrify me. I don't want to die. But I'm not terrified of death. I'm not I'm not terrified of being 70 and being alone. And, you know, maybe that will happen. I don't think that what about

41:59
the cell phone motivated, open minded cry cop does to you? Do you think fact it's a good chance? Having a kid would be, you know, a good challenge? Or maybe it's like, Am I missing a perspective because, you know, Tommy describes fatherhood is something that I'm describing to people who don't have them, which is a real fucking hard position to be in what you don't have them because it's like, it's like a mate who was meditating. And he said that he's enlightenment feels enlightened now. And so what's it like? It's on where you can't fucking you never going to get it? Because you can experience it. How? That's not how said it's like, how can you How can you reconcile it? How can you say, Well, I'm going to accept the fact as an open minded person, I am still going to not go down that path.

42:44
I mean, it's not it's not a conversation I have with myself these days. But do do I think there is any chance at all that I would maybe be married one day or still might be have a kid maybe there's a chance it's not like that's on mine. It's not like I'm planning mind. But it's not like now. I would definitely not do that. Or it's I I get a lot of fulfillment and purpose and happiness through just what I do right now. And, and I kind of the way I am is, do I like my life? Yeah, I do. Do I have good relationships? Am I for the most part content? The answer is yes.

43:20
And I don't think having a cute or being married. Is it all a bad thing? I think for many people, it's the best thing for some people it might not be. I don't think Getting married is always a great decision. I don't think getting divorced as or as a great decision. But I think that it's like, I think we all have this kind of inner guidance system, you know, and for me, I think I'm in the right place. I feel like I'm doing the right thing for me. And also it sounds a bit weird, but I also feel like I have quite a few people who

43:55
you know, I invest a lot in like a lot of people and that's all mice, my family. You know, that's why if I was the boiler maker interaction, I'd probably be a very different person. Not

44:07
better not worse, just a default up finding fulfillment in a different way. Hundred percent and hundred percent. Yeah,

44:13
and my life is not better or worse. It's just different. I don't think Jesus figured it out. I pity everyone else. I think you know, this is the other thing too that's trying to figure out what's going to work for you. Yeah, because your best situation your best life your best path your best decision will not work for Tommy and vice versa. Because you're not him. And he's not you just to

44:32
bring it back around. Before we finish off and I get around Craig the stuff Josh was talking around the stories that you tell about your own life that make connection and the things that are the lessons that you're sharing with people and one of them is the time that you kind of had that moment where you go I don't want this what I've created I don't want now I'm working out what I want and you know, I guess there's a lot of successful motivational speakers that have a version of that in their own way.

45:03
Yeah. And were you saying Josh, do you need to have that mind Yes, I call it the crucible moment where it's like that moment where you hit rock bottom to be you know, the biggest podcasters in the world people like rich roll who's the vegan dude who's got popular podcasts you know everyone seems to have come from some space of alcoholism or some form of fat copper in their life to be able to say you know what it's like minimalism I was filming with in touring with the guys who created the film minimalism that the minimum they do you know talking all about getting rid of shit and the one thing I found in all of those talks that they did the q amp a people would get up and people in the tourists the fucking bad and you wouldn't die they said any of those any of the style of talks where people want to give their life story before they fuckin ask the question if they hijacked it yeah the classic hijack and they all had that story of an it got me thinking that maybe the only time that you become a minimalist is first being a maximalist really like having too much shit. Because if you don't have too much, if you aren't morbidly obese, you're probably not going to be thinking about what you're eating too much. You continue on the journey of eating whatever you want. But if you're 120 kilos, then maybe you're you then have that mode. So the question is, do you have to have these moments

46:31
I don't think you necessarily have to have I think it often associates with is to have a crisis or to have, you know, that kind of fucking rock bottom moment, but not not always. I mean, you know, as you know, Tommy, my mom got diagnosed with lung cancer and bowel cancer last year, within two weeks of each other. And then within the following three weeks, had two major major surgeries either which could have killed her, she had those within 10 days meant have those six months, couldn't afford to them went through five months of chemo 7879 years old, probably would have killed me the chemo didn't kill her blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Now from the outside looking in, and being part of that journey as her son that just re adjusted my

47:21
my perspective yet again, where you go, Okay, so this is what matters. So what matters is love. What matters is family, what matters is me being there for mine all the other bullshit that I obsess about and the stuff that I I think matters in the context of that for that period of time anyway and even now like I said to you were walking across the road before getting from getting a coffee and I said I'm gonna see my mom on Sunday for Mother's Day and I said to thank God I have a mum remember and you went yeah because there was a time they were I wasn't going to have a mom to go to this mom's day and and i think that you know might be your own personal fucking breakdown Josh or or epiphany or it could be just you know, I always say to people the ability the the the potential to redirect your life or to do better or to do amazing it's there Don't wait for the fucking catastrophe Can you hack it then can you can you can hack it that's a good question. You can you got the book Diana the day Yeah, yes to hacking it. Yeah, I've got the three steps to total transformative experience. But, um, yeah, you can but but I mean, the other thing too is that you know, if the wind up because of the goal in a minute, but everything comes at a cost, you know, I built building a like, let's say that you guys hopefully in a year from now, you got 100,000 subscribers, you're not going to get 100,000 subscribers unless you fucking roll up your sleeves and grind and do the work and commit like most people won't commit because it comes at a cost, you know, maybe building a speaking career where hopefully I've regularly got 123 thousand people in front of me, there's just work there's just, you know, you don't, it doesn't magically happen, you know, building a fucking castle on the ocean, or whatever your version of success is, is about grinding, you know, being happy being content. And the truth is, I believe that most people have got amazing in them. If not, everyone's got amazing in them. But not everyone will do the work and we love the hack. We love the the magic pill, the silver bullet the quick fix, we are the instant gratification instant gratification society and once you stop looking for the easy path and start looking for the right path. Things get better love it.

49:42
A lot of wisdom there Craig. Haha. Thanks for being on the daily talk show celebrating Episode 80 with us. You're on. You're on episode seven of your new podcast. Right. Well, I am.

49:52
You know what I was thinking while we're still recording. Feel free to cut this out. You know, is it possible that I that we do a podcasting I could as well Susan shake off because that will give you guys a fair bit of traction and yeah, absolutely. We might do that. So we might share this podcast and then my audience can connect with you, as long

50:13
as we get a few few free Max's protein bars.

50:15
I tell you what I'll do. I'll give you both a Maxine's burn bar because you both carrying a little bit of fun I

50:22
get that 2.5 kilo drum that there was

50:27
one of those pink vinyl dumbbells

50:30
thanks right strike.
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